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A Fieldspotters Guide to Debate Pervertry and Guru Rhetoric w/ Destiny (Patreon)

Published:
2025-01-21 07:03:50
Edited:
2025-05-10 02:26:02
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

Here is the video version of the recent episode prepared by editor Andy.

In the wake of Lex's recent interview with Zelensky, we thought it was the perfect moment to dedicate an episode to a Fieldspotter's Guide for the rhetorical and manipulative techniques that flourish in the Gurusphere. To help us navigate this terrain, we're joined by streamer and online debater Steven Bonnell—better known as Destiny—who was previously the subject of a Decoding episode and Right to Reply. Destiny has spent years cataloguing what he calls "Debate Pervertry" tactics during his clashes with streamers, influencers, and online pundits, so we thought it might be worthwhile to compare notes.

Expect discussions of gurusphere favourites, including strategic disclaimers, decorative scholarship, the heterodox pose, and civility porn; as well as a deep dive into some rather colourful debate pervetry tactics including the pinball of bullshit, the lazy gardener, and the clown mirror. Along the way, we also engage in our dialectic on the methods of Dr. K and whether Sam Harris leans too heavily on interpersonal dynamics.

So, join us for a lively and hopefully informative episode that might even give your bullshit detector a bit of a boost!

Links

Our episode on Dr. K that covers the reprimand and the Reckful streams

Destiny's Online Notes on Debate Pervertry

Our Right to Reply episode with Sam Harris that covers some of the topics discussed

Files

A Fieldspotter's Guide to Guru Rhetoric

In the wake of Lex's recent interview with Zelensky, we thought it was the perfect moment to dedicate an episode to a Fieldspotter's Guide for the rhetorical and manipulative techniques that flourish in the Gurusphere. To help us navigate this terrain, we're joined by streamer and online debater Steven Bonnell—better known as Destiny—who was previously the subject of a Decoding episode and Right to Reply. Destiny has spent years cataloguing what he calls "Debate Pervertry" tactics during his clashes with streamers, influencers, and online pundits, so we thought it might be worthwhile to compare notes. **NOTE** This episode was recorded before the recent allegations concerning Destiny and leaked nudes, and as such, they are not discussed. We cover the topic in the next Supplementary Material episode available on the main podcast feed. Expect discussions of gurusphere favourites, including strategic disclaimers, decorative scholarship, the heterodox pose, and civility porn; as well as a deep dive into some rather colourful debate pervetry tactics including the pinball of bullshit, the lazy gardener, and the clown mirror. Along the way, we also engage in our dialectic on the methods of Dr. K and whether Sam Harris leans too heavily on interpersonal dynamics. Links - Our episode on Dr. K that covers the reprimand and the Reckful streams https://decoding-the-gurus.captivate.fm/episode/dr-k-part-3-therapeutic-non-therapy - Destiny's Online Notes on Debate Pervertry https://publish.obsidian.md/destiny/Strategy/Debate+Pervertry - Our Right to Reply episode with Sam Harris that covers some of the topics discussed https://decoding-the-gurus.captivate.fm/episode/sam-harris-right-to-reply Support the Show: If you like the show and want to support us, you can find us on Patreon, where we have a bunch of extra stuff. ► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/DecodingTheGurus Find Us Elsewhere: ► Twitter: @GurusPod ► The Podcast: https://decoding-the-gurus.captivate.fm/ ► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/DecodingTheGurus ► Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/DecodingTheGurus/

Comments

Andy First

In addition to “debate pervertry” Destiny is also an expert in “actual pervertry” much to the dismay of those of us who would like to see him succeed and/or be a good human being.

Jack Anderson

Maybe I'm just too much of an old man but the whole culture around streaming seems horrible no matter the substantial opinions of the individual streamers. It's like a degraded form of the debating culture that surrounded the new atheists, with even more personal insults and pettiness

Dave Lavelle

Chris we need to get you a catchy opening line. How about “Welcome to the show guys!!” In a fake OTT American accent?

Gearóid

Destiny's impression of Jordan Peterson was the highlight of this.

Eli Santana

Yet another male leftist feminist turns out to be an immoral/amoral cretin. Nothing sadder than someone in their mid thirties still seeking sexual thrill and validation from teenagers.

Tim Tripp

I am so glad you guys listen to this slop for me. Saves on head banging against the wall.

Frances goulart

Is Destiny capable of a sentence without the word " fucking"? Is this the new "uhh", "like" verbal place holder? Shows a lack of um, imagination. Or maybe he needs his Adderall dose adjusted? Just putting it out there?

Brink

Chris, you said, "If you’d asked me before recording if I think Destiny would be capable of doing that my answer would be the same as now. Yes. " I'm kinda gobsmacked by this. Why would you willingly platform someone you believe capable of something so despicable? This wasn't a right-of-reply episode. It was a friendly chat with someone being presented to your audience as a respectable expert.

Laura

I think my brain just blew up. “I think anyone getting involved with fans and orbiters is engaging in something with serious ethical issues that are liable to blow up.” 🤯 I’m quoting the above so as not to be misunderstood by writing what follows here. I think that podcasters who have consistently introduced themselves as learned academics who then engages with and platforms one of their study subjects has already invested themselves in something with serious ethical issues that are liable to blow up. Also, I think that Destiny is a creep and your repeated interactions with him make me sad.

Tomek Krzesiński

Chris, you wrote, "Given what we covered of Destiny before, that he would engage in inappropriate relationships with orbiters and share nudes is not out of the range of his past behavior. However, I’d seen no evidence he was engaged in that kind of stuff." This is not true. You were aware that he had used nudes as blackmail against AnaVoir. I know this because MrGirl's anti-Destiny report, which outlines this in detail, is mentioned in the links of the episode, and I also pointed out the blackmail in the Patreon comments. As for your claim that there is no hypocrisy between his behavior and the views he expresses, this is also incorrect. He spent months debating the red pill sphere on what constitutes healthy relationships and has engaged in debates about consent in sexual scenarios. You wrote, "In Destiny's case, I have never perceived him as portraying himself as a moral role model in his personal relationships. I have seen him justify his relationship choices but also acknowledge that his personal life is extremely messy and controversial." I think framing his behavior as "messy and controversial" is what allowed him to act with complete impunity for so long. The words don't match the actions. This is unfortunately, something you do repeatedly. “However, I also recognise that he made his personal relationships and orbiter drama part of his content for many years, and I agree there are potentially serious issues with manipulation, abuse, coercion, and general power dynamics. That's why we covered that kind of stuff in the decoding episode.” You're using language that downplays the severity of his actions. Blackmailing people with nudes, leaking sex tapes, and secretly recording sexual partners are not "potentially" serious issues, they are extremely serious issues. Your decoding episode on him was met with universal praise from his community and led to an influx of his followers in the subreddit, who then began downvoting every single critical post about him. To me, this shows that if there is a disconnect between your perception of him and that of his fans, it certainly wasn't highlighted enough in the episode.

Amy S

This discussion is really interesting. I am trying to take it all in. It just shows how these guru podcaster figures are “word magicians” and it’s fascinating to hear you all reveal the mechanisms behind their tricks. It reminds me of The Wizard of Oz where Toto reveals the little man behind the curtain. I think what you are doing is so important and worthwhile. Please keep it up!!

MaxPlan

whoever is creating these thumbnails needs a raise, I busted out laughing in public with that thumbnail about the Jordan Peterson dragon.

Mark Francis

The thumbnail pic of the three of you kills me 🤣

Joseph Sullivan

I think Destiny quite likes you guys. He was much more himself in this video than he was in his appearance on Sam Harris’ show, for instance.

Ian Shield

i watched something about this guy running a sex cult, it was quite damning. fuck knows if its true but shouldnt he be being guru grilled on here as opposed to platformed he seems dodgy AF