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Supplementary Material 36: Comedy Cults, Toxic Mould, and WW2 Revisionism (Patreon)

Published:
2025-08-29 10:10:09
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

We risk contamination with toxic mould, endure distressing initiation rituals to a comedy cult, and ponder if the narratives we have received about the Nazis have enough nuance.

Supplementary Material 3600:00 Introduction and an Intervention01:59 Tomatoes, Holidays, and Hollywood Remakes06:15 AI x Indulgent People06:41 AI Chatbots and Delusional Gurus10:46 Sir Robert Edward Grant and the Architect 12:26 Critiquing the Critics13:31 Eric Weinstein engages with Dialogos with his silicon friend Grok22:25 Tim Nguyen details the Distributed Weinstein Suppression Complex24:20 Sabine Hossenfelder's Google Doc27:10 2+2 Discourse and a surprise appearance from Kareem Carr29:34 Chris's 10 Tips for Sabine34:39 Coffeezilla does more Anomaly Hunting on Epstein Videos37:50 Conspiracy Chat39:58  Ghislaine Maxwell's potential deal 42:29 Thoughts on the Elephant Graveyard's Video on the Joe Rogan Comedy Cult49:45 Details vs Vibes52:46 Rogan's Fact-Checking and Comedian Dynamics54:54 The Rogan Anti-Human Tech Elite Conspiracy Theory59:40 Master Geniuses vs. a bunch of dickheads who like the same stuff01:03:55 Lex Friedman and the Role of Softball Interviews01:06:28 Conspiracy Theories vs. Real Conspiracies01:15:51 Overall thoughts on the Elephant Graveyard Video Essay01:19:18 Ana Kasparian thinks the Jews knew about 9/1101:22:21 Jordan Peterson's Health and Mould Toxicity01:24:24 Good Fungus vs Bad Mould01:26:08 Bespoke Medicine and American Individualism01:29:57 Streamers saying Stupid Things: Taylor Lorenz on DSA Nazis01:33:08 Populist anti-vaccine rhetoric in Japan!01:35:58 Bill Maher and Andrew Huberman discuss the problems with medicine01:38:40 Chris Rufo and Right Wing Outrage over the Cracker Barrel logo01:42:31 The War on Christmas in Australia01:44:35 Jonathan Pageau's revisionist World War II symbolism01:48:29 Pageau's Postmodern Narratives02:03:32 Finding the Balance between Nazism and Liberalism02:14:02 Random Shoutout02:15:45 Matt's Cognitive Decline and Professor Archetypes

Sources

Article on Sir Robert Edward Grant and The Architect

Eric talking with his silicon friend @grok

Eric waxing lyrical about Grok and praising Elon for his unique insights

Tim Nguyen — Physics Grifters: Eric Weinstein, Sabine Hossenfelder, and a Crisis of Credibility

Sabine vindicates herself in a Google Doc

Kareem Carr thinks Sabine’s document is great!

Chris’s Top 10 tips for Sabine on how to be a science skeptic YouTuber

BBC — Ghislaine Maxwell denies seeing ‘inappropriate’ conduct by Trump

The Guardian — Ghislaine Maxwell transcripts: what we know at a glance

Voidzilla — Top 5 Lies in Epstein Footage

Lewandowsky, Lloyd & Brophy (2018) When THUNCing Trumps thinking — Argumenta (PDF)

Transcripts from Interview with Ghislaine Maxwell (Justice.gov)

How Comedy Was Destroyed by an Anti-Reality Doomsday Cult

The Loving Trap (Parody of Adam Curtis) — Ben Woodhams

Ana Kasparian spreading anti-semitic 9/11 Truther conspiracies

Mikhaila Peterson’s update on Jordan Peterson’s health problems

Taylor Lorenz explaining how the DSA are the real fascists

Huberman & Bill Maher discuss medicine

BBC article on Sanseito Party

Independent article on the Cracker Barrel ‘Controversy’

Jonathan Pageau — Symbolism Explained: The Fundamental WWII Duality That Still Haunts Us Today

Comments

Theic

‘LLMs have made the sensemakers obsolete’ lol YES

Ron McKinnon

On the topic of the Hobbit movies, there are fan edits out there that take it down to 2-3 hrs that improve it immeasurably. Some focus on making it book-accurate. One was made to match the Rankin Bass animation’s story. The original was a bloated nightmare.

Nat J

My gf literally discovered Elephant Graveyard last night and introduced it to me. It must be blowing up in the Rogan-averse corners of the internet. I love the style. It reminds me particular of and old satirical pseudo-documentary, I watched in the 90’s connecting bee hives to sacred geometry. It has a similarly schizophrenic, conspiratorial style. Can’t remember the bee movie, sadly. It couldn’t be that obscure. I found it at several Blockbusters.

iffydonatello

Screaming "It's Cracker Barrel!" out my window ala "Network" to have you correct yourself 30 seconds later is a humbling moment.

Linda Sears

Only Eric would call an LLM chatbot his silicon colleague. Thanks for the good advice on how to engage with LLMs in a way that is productive.

Lillie

As a healthy, active mid 40s person, I also take a lot of (glorious) naps

Hristina Bareva

Ouch... I hope Werner Herzog doesn't listen to this one...

Kitchen Garage

Chris' clear, forceful desire is obvious: to create an actually listenable 40k podcast. Is this projection on my part? Emperor knows.

Dank Sparrow

I think I'm getting this... : On the one hand Thiel creating orbs to enslave the minds of men is an example of conspiratorial ideation. On the the other Thiel bankrolling Hulk Hogan r.i.p. to sue Gawker into bankruptcy over a sex tape featuring the Hulkster in Sixth Judicial Circuit Florida court because Gawker outed Thiel as gay is an example of conspiracy. Fact is stranger than fiction I guess

Lord Brannigan-7

I love Curtis, but I hate him too. I'm sure he feels the same about me. Another good parody of him was in the H&P special 'Harry and Paul's Story of the Twos' (another pair for whom I wouldn't willingly die on a hill for, but I'm sure they feel the same about me) not currently on iPlayer but no doubt on YT.

Damian McCarron

Just about to start a 2hr 30m minute drive, impeccable timing!

Kevin Nyberg

Anyone have the name or search term to find that video of the BBC tropes video they clipped? I’m not finding it.

CHUSSTERR

Lex at the end 🧀

Rakish Tilt 🎩

Some of us still wear masks because disabled and chronically ill folks who are vulnerable to COVID infection have requested that we do so. It also normalizes regular mask-wearing in a world where facial recognition surveillance is going to be/already is pervasive.

livintheilife

I’m @ 1:01:23. I don’t think it has to be either/or on the conspiracy front: Rogan’s platform grew organically and, at some point, he became a useful idiot. I do like the idea that if Rogan is part of a conspiracy, he’s too myopic to know it.

Duncan

It's Friday, it's five-to-five, it's Cracker Barrel!

TomD

I totally took the Elephant Graveyard episode to be a piss-take. It seems unlikely that tickets to The Comedy Mothership are actually $800 or that the toilets are manned by guards armed with assault rifles (although they might be).

qwerrttzz

I always thought that graveyard is talking like that ironicly becouse rogan and his guests are talking like that(sense making and stuff) and that he making up this whole conspiracy theory about world order just like rogan would and thats the joke... I mean the whole video starts with him meditating in the woods and finaly seeing the truth :D

Kelly 🇮🇪 🇦🇺

Talking about JP and recovering from brain damage Matt - or did he? (My thoughts too 😳) Chris laughed that away pretty quick 😆

Thewizrad

Community! Identity! Stability!

Sean Power

Fantastic episode. The conspiracy discussion is on the ball. What’s appalling though is these morons might rule the world. It’s just it doesn’t take much to do it. They’re all wrens: kings of the birds because they fell asleep on a bigger birds wing. Anyway, also:, Adam Curtis. I think he often presents these morons as morons, and many people enjoy it - but what many people didn’t realise was that their being morons is Very Serious Indeed…

Peen Israel

The Elephant Graveyard critique is just pedantic. Listen to the other stuff on the channel. Creating funny, interesting videos is the obvious goal. I really don’t think he literally believes in the apocalypse cult stuff.

Roland Weber

Thanks, that was a treat! 😆

Paul Ditta

Fine episode as always. I can’t believe I’m going to say this, so I’m going to have the soap and water ready. In Sabine’s defence….her response to Professor Dave. He made a baseless claim and she just dismissed it. Chris, you make the point that her dismissal isn’t evidence and I agree. But I would argue she’s perfectly entitled to do that on the basis of that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without it. Otherwise we’re in the world of having to marshal resources to refute every whackadoodle idiocy spouted by any moron with a mic. That’s as far as my defence goes.

James P.

I liked the elephant graveyard video ok. Good way to kill an hour or so but I took it more like a video essay version of the amon animation stuff. https://youtu.be/LSduRWTzNQQ?si=byRBbZ2gExavGuR_ Basically, a looking-glass, William Mortensen, American Grotesque distortion of the thing to call attention to how gross it actually is. Although perhaps I do see a more plausible case for a concerted right wing alt media takeover than you guys do. The tenant media stuff was super fucked and remember there HUNDREDS of other creators not named in the indictments. If russia is penetrating our discourse so brazenly, there's no way that Thiel isn't. I don't know that he's using Rogan to build a doomsday cult, but I will buy whatever tangible thing that's a metaphor for. I think living in the US gives a much more palpable sense of just how off the rails things have gone. Everyone is absolutely fucking pilled and it happened really fast.

Kyle Dun

I still remember when I first read about the ANZACs in Egypt being racist drunken louts. Definitely against the image we're taught. I assume though that such behavior was only the Aussie Reps #copium

Noah Heck

I feel like I could easily have been diagnosed with cognitive design since some time in my early teens. I am assured, with some frequently, however that I am totally fine, I just don’t listen.

jubshit

No input, just wanted to say thanks again for more excellent listening.

Jillian fon Swa

I’m developing a parasocial relationship with Matt and Chris

Linda Sears

I feel much better knowing Matt forgets names. I’m terrible at it because names are so arbitrary. For some crazy reason, I force myself to memorize my students’ names every semester. This semester I have 150 names! One of these days, I’m not going to be able to do it anymore.

Amy

The phrase “going all in” has been ruined for me by that podcast. Now every time I hear that phrase, I hear their theme song. 😬

Nina J.

I think part of the reason left-leaning, reasonably intelligent people like Coffeezilla and the Elephant Graveyard guy might find conspiratorial explanations for the current state of affairs so appealing is that the whole thing is made worse by the overwhelming stupidity of the MAGA coalition. I’m depressed in general by the fascist spiral in which my country is caught, but it’s fucking insulting that this particular version of fascism is more Vegas sideshow than it is well-oiled machine - that these people have managed to get their hands around the throat of the nation by virtue of privilege, opportunism, mutual self-interest, and dumb luck rather than meticulous planning or any kind of merit.

Randy

Chris used the phrase "hoist by his own petard." I only learned what this actually means about a week ago. It does not mean what I thought it meant. Still a great phrase - probably even better now that I actually understand it.

Randy

Sorry Matt, using the phrases "social milieu" and "developed a rapport" right after declaring yourself "low class" might warrant a ping from the gurometer.

Crystal Cole

Jonathan pageau has never had his ass beat before and it shows.

Jordan

Well done Chris. The 'Bert to your Ernie' intro is going to keep the insufferable Chris/Matt shippers going for a long time.

Ema

I just took that elephant graveyard thing as just south park style satire. You take the actual thing and inflate it and add over the top conspiratorial elements to make it ridiculous. And do the whole thing in a deadpan voice.

Kate V

The “crazy” woman worried about contamination. God that was cringe. It’s called OCD and it’s a miserable disabling disorder. (Real OCD that is).

Leigha

Your reddit mods are absolute Karens. Real HMA Nazis. Thank you for your attention to this matter

Georgie

May I ask what point that shriveled old fart Bill Maher is trying to make? What difference does it make if the medical community only knows 10-20% about what could be known? If that is even a verifiable number? They still know 100% more than "skeptic" Bill Maher.

DrSmartThong

I love both of you, but Jesus Christ. Listening to you guys talk about The Elephant Graveyard video was so painful. Jordan Hall tier painful. Like a shotgun firing next to my ears for 30 minutes or however long it went on. You're both too online for this. Especially you, Chris. Distefano, awkward cigar moment aside, is a Rogan weewee suckler. The documentary fella you mentioned was not, in any way, an apt comparison. If you had been talking about someone like Peter Joseph (you should cover him; I don't think we would have ever had Brand without his films) it would make sense. YOU, Chris, are taking it too literally. Too face value. Please delete the video on YouTube. I can't recommend your podcast and deal with the second hand embarrassment in the event the person watches you talk about it.

Da Jay SwIzzle

Re types of conspiracies and plausible ones vs implausible ones - found this Novella framing useful - the "kitchen table" conspiracy vs the Grand Conspiracy: https://theness.com/neurologicablog/math-vs-conspiracies/ "Whenever I write about conspiracies I frequently get questions challenging my apparent dismissal of the notion of conspiracies, complete with historical examples of actual conspiracies. So to clarify up front what we are discussion here, it is the so-called “grand conspiracy.” Actual conspiracies of course exist. Whenever two or more people get together and agree to commit an illegal or nefarious act, there is a conspiracy. When we interviewed Gerald Posner on this topic, he called such conspiracies, “kitchen conspiracies,” because they could be perpetrated by a few people sitting in someone’s kitchen. There is a continuum, of course, and no sharp line between a regular conspiracy and a grand conspiracy. Rather, the larger a claimed conspiracy gets, the more unlikely it becomes as it takes on more and more features of a grand conspiracy. Those features are what are important, because they define the pathological process that creates and supports grand conspiracies. To quickly review, grand conspiracies are problematic because they are structured in such a way that they are unfalsifiable. Any evidence against the conspiracy was planted or is part of a false-flag operation. The lack of evidence for the conspiracy is explained away as being covered up by the conspiracy itself. When conspiracies get very large, involving large numbers of people across multiple institutions and many years or even decades of time, this raises many questions about the plausibility and logistics of orchestrating and maintaining such a conspiracy. Those questions are typically answered in two ways, by giving more power and cleverness to the people perpetrating the alleged conspiracy, and by widening and deepening the conspiracy in order to give them the power and reach they need to pull it off. If 911 were an inside job of the Bush administration, why hasn’t a plucky reporter exposed the whole thing? Because the press are in on the conspiracy. Why didn’t the Democrats when they controlled congress or the White House launch an investigation and expose their political foes? Because both parties are secretly controlled by a shadow government. Why didn’t other countries expose the lies of the US? Because there is really a secret world government pulling all the strings. That is exactly why there are conspiracy theories about the New World Order, the Illuminati, Reptilians, or the shadow world government – because grand conspiracies tend naturally in that direction in order to maintain the conspiracy. I have often summarized the situation by saying that grand conspiracy theories tend to grow larger and more complex until they collapse under their own weight."

Paul Bowman

@Matt - horseshoe theory challenge accepted. In response to your two words - Russell Brand - here's my two words - Mimentic Symmetry. And by mimesis in this context, I don't mean general copying and imitation of ideas, but specifically the movement of ideas, tropes, organisational forms, and people, across ideological boundaries. For horseshoe theory to be true, then for every Russell Brand moving from the far left to the far right, there should be another (audience size equivalent) influencer/egocrat moving from the far right to the far left. Similarly, ideas, tropes and culture war positions should show a similar level of symmetry in borrowing. The far left should be borrowing from the far right, as much as the other way around, for the core claim of horseshoe theory - that the far left and far right resemble each other more than either the centre-left and centre-right - to be upheld. If empirical investigation demonstrated (as I wager it would) that the real situation is one of mimetic asymmetry - i.e. that the far right borrows from the far left way more often than the other way around, then horseshoe theory (itself originally a Nazi concept) would be disproven. The question can be investigated scientifically, beyond mere vibes or "well that's just, like, your opinion, dude...". "And here's one I prepared earlier...", from a paper I delivered at HM London conference in Nov last year - >> Mimetic Asymmetry — a Testable Thesis? It’s good for social theory to at least make a nod towards social science. That is, to try and tease out implications of the theory that are, at least in principle, empirically falsifiable or, more optimistically, verifiable. The possibility of mimetic asymmetry is one implication of applying the concept of transversality to political movements of left and right, particularly the far left and far right. The concept of “horseshoe theory” is popular amongst the liberal centre, based on observed far-right borrowings and imitations of tactics, tropes and organisational forms from the far left. By “mimesis” in this context²⁷, we don’t mean the natural process of imitation that circulates ideas and tactics amongst groups of a similar ideological feather. Rather the process of imitation and borrowing that occurs across significant political divides, in this case between the far left and far right. I have already written about the Nazi roots of horseshoe theory elsewhere²⁸. But transversality allows us to go further in not only disproving horseshoe theory, but also explaining why it was no coincidence that this was a far right coining in the first place. Every historian and writer on the far right has remarked on the significant amount of borrowing that the far right does in appropriating tactics and ideas from the far left. For horseshoe theory — i.e. the political ontological similarity or near-identity of far left and far right poles of the ideological-political spectrum — to be correct, empirical investigation should see a relative symmetry of borrowing in both directions. That is, the far left should be borrowing a similar amount from the far right as the other way around. That is, a relation of mimetic symmetry would have to hold for horseshoe theory to be upheld. I stand to be corrected, but I am confident that any empirical investigation will show not mimetic symmetry, but mimetic asymmetry obtains. That in reality the amount of borrowing from the far right by the far left is miniscule to near non-existent. Why? Because if we accept that the average coefficient of constituent transversality is higher on the far left than the far right, and conversely the coefficient of collective paranoia is higher in the latter, then the greater capacity for creativity and innovation will lie, asymmetrically, on the left side of the fence. But, by the requirements of needing to feed off the energy of insurgent counterpower, albeit reactionary, far right movements are dependent on new ideas and new forms of organisation in order to build their own capacity and self-engender autonomous agency outside of the institutions of the centre right, and therefore need a minimally positive level of constituent transversality of their own, albeit with the support of borrowing innovation from outside. Given their immediate neighbours in the centre right are even more challenged in the realm of creativity than they are, the far right have no option than to go looking for borrowed clothes and ideological cast-offs from their ostensible enemies on the far left. However, this can lead groups like Otto Strasser’s Black Front, becoming very exposed to criticism from their more traditionally right-conservative comrades of being “quasi-communist”. Hence why they invented the idea of the horseshoe theory to start with. from https://eidgenossen.medium.com/transversality-and-the-three-way-fight-3765907d05a4

Trees

Claim: Trees is a boring middle-manager dad. Fact: Trees is Leonardo da Vinci, Einstein, Rasputin, Jesus and Robin Williams wrapped into one.

WB

Just listening now....I would say Epstein furor is alive and well. Alex Jones' #2 guy is even leaving because he says Jones is forcing him to always make Trump look good. In Congress the high dumb queens of MAGA have rebelled and are supporting the D's efforts to release the documents. In this case, I'll be blunt: you don't have to deal with these people. We do. Your countries are certainly getting some waves of chaos, but ours is being destroyed. No rules apply here any longer. And yes, that includes the release of Maxwell as a potential risk. You cannot reason with these people or be reasonable. USAID, the temporary cut of all aid to Ukraine along with the continued dithering to benefit Putin, the prison camps, the illegal renditions, his family's making of billions off the crypto schemes alone, and now we are looking like starting a war with Venezuela, just to name a few. There are already very real and tangible body counts because of this regime. There will be even more. The ends justify the means.

i'm dissLexick

Anyone have the lord hardthrasher video link that the guys talk about

Brian Gough

Oh Galaxy Brains Matt — Arial isn’t the paragon of sans serif typefaces. It was created by Microsoft to avoid licensing Helvetica, which in turn was proceeded by Akzidenz Grotesque. The reason why logos like Cracker Barrel have been ‘rationalised’ is likely driven by screen based technology — my guess. “The Cracker Barrel logo was restyled to a flat, modern design. The intent behind the new logo was to ease recognition of Cracker Barrel on various media platforms, including digital channels and screens of all sizes.” https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/cracker-barrels-logo-backlash-what-marketers-can-learn-from-a-rebranding-gone-wrong/

Lucyna

Re narrative about wwII being a “ragtag of multiplicity???” versus one big evil . As a Pole whose history involves underground armies - living in wilderness, quite organized, hiding in villages - it’s not a narrative . Those are facts. Those underground networks spied for Britain and in the end lost their lives to either Germans or the “brothers “ of the Red Army (which brought “order” and authority by executing thousands of fighters, right after Germany folded) . And I know the nationalistic spin on our history maybe exaggerates the impact of the significance of the partisan fighters in victory itself , but their deaths were necessary for Stalin to control the entire country after WWII. I just needed to put that out because I was feeling salty. :)