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Supplementary Material 37: Public Execution Discourse, Heterodox Interpersonal Psychodrama, and Generous Tit for Tat-ers (Patreon)

Published:
2025-09-20 00:28:59
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Why are we never invited to these dinners? We wonder if it was something we said or if our invitation just got lost in the mail, as we endure the inevitable discourse wave that followed in the wake of Charlie Kirk's murder. Sources

SOAS honorary awardees for 2025

What did Elon Musk say at far-right UK rally and did his remarks break the law?

Joe Rogan and Bryan Callen on vaccines

He Had One Product, $80K in Funding, and One Influencer - And Unilever Just Acquired His Company for 9 Figures

Michael Shellenberger Mixed Up Two Guys With Sorta Similar Names And Falsely Told His Readers — And Congress — One Of Them Might Be A Spy As A Result

Premium: Taylor Lorenz And The Perils Of Journafluencing (Part 1)

Money & Macro: Economist fact-checks Gary’s Economics

Careful What You Click On - Konstantin Kisin

Destiny- The Prisoner's Dilemma Explains Destiny's Tweets

Rand, D. G., Ohtsuki, H., & Nowak, M. A. (2009). Direct reciprocity with costly punishment: Generous tit-for-tat prevails. Journal of theoretical biology, 256(1), 45-57.

DTG: Interview with Konstantin Kisin from Triggernometry on Heterodoxy, Biases, and the Media

Comments

Da Jay SwIzzle

Re: Joe Rogan. There's always, ALWAYS, another layer to the vaccine denialism. It's infinite. Re: the Rogan and big pharma discussion, having brought up the millions made by people like Mercola, and whether their profit motive needs to be considered at all, I typically get this response: "Pffft, Mercola has only millions - that's NOTHING!, nothing compared to what Big Pharma makes every damned day" So I guess they operate under the assumption that 10s of millions of dollars can have no impact on human bias. Only an issue at the "billions and billions" level.

Da Jay SwIzzle

Re: the "wanna be nice" thing in IDW-Guru-Podcast land is def on overdrive but I sense like it's the same universal human thing at work in classic complaints about "access journalism" - where the journalists covering people in power almost end up like, Helsinki syndrome hostages of the powerful - loathe to say a bad word lest they lose the access they count next day for the journalistic business model. It's about money, personality and relationships. So too, the nascent IDW online had a business interest in common promotion, not diffusing their market power by taking shots at each other. Thinking this way made me think more about the interpersonal forced friendliness at play in access journalism before (where typically I thought more about the business model). And conversely what appears on the surface to be a simple go along to get along thing in IDW-verse is probably a patina layer overtop a business interest. Their channels all rely on cross promotion to both keep and enlarge their audiences.

Lucy

David Chang seems like he might fit the chef mold Chris is looking for.

Meg

The far populist right also embraced Luigi for obvious reasons. Just look up the backlash Ben Shapiro got for condemning the murder.

Max

a new Supplementary Material is such a joyous thing in life 💜

MrTom

Hey Chris, it's not true that Charlie Kirk's Family was at the event when he was killed. At this point, we should expect people including the presidents son to "embelish" tragedies for political purposes...

JustMe

I just got the point where Chris said they’re going to do an episode on Keith Raniere. I thought the VOW was fascinating despite criticisms that it was too tolerant of the insider’s views who left the cult. The jist of it is that are hellbent in getting across that anyone could be a victim of cults. (IDK, if someone tells me the have 3 doctorates, holds several patents and the highest IQ in the world you would think that would trigger some skepticism. Especially when a ten minute search would reveal they had been convicted of running a fraudulent MLM. ) Anyway can’t wait for the episode. Here’s the link from the local paper with all the coverage they did: https://www.timesunion.com/nxivm/

Eric Ireland

I think the old drug dealer simulator game you mentioned at the end was dopewars… still available to play at SDF.org my fellow nerds

Lucy

Hmm, the Blocked and Reported segment was very interesting, especially in light of recent events. Was part of Ezra Klein’s CK doing politics the right way column a background of he was nice to me at a dinner party? I think that was the case for Tim Miller of The Bulwark.

Linda Sears

Just want to say that you made my cleaning and cooking preparations for a family get together far more enjoyable. More importantly, your ethical, honest approach is such a balm right now. One place of strong disagreement that I cannot allow to stand. Chocolate cake is good even if you have eaten more than you should, not so with consuming sensemaker content.

collapsing

Destiny dismantling your tit for tat bit Chris…

Nicholas

Never thought I would hear Caves of Qud discussed on this podcast. I’ve been completely obsessed with that game, I had to go cold turkey on it. Matt, I’m sure the interface speaks to you on some level too, it looks like faux ms-dos.

Nancy Hale

Chris may just have gotten me to try a video game with the Museum one. Two of my family members worked in museums! As someone who has never played a game of this type, is it easy for a truly complete novice to pick up?

Guy Walter

Interestingly, Elephant Graveyard has now confirmed that the more outlandish parts of the video were intended as satire. http://youtube.com/post/UgkxUykNJ8Hi4q--IpEFZG56yCk-pQbGsMSO?si=q_OD4NYc7ESKNfWf Honestly, I do think that was pretty clear from the video itself, and the fact that some viewers were taking the Thiel stuff at face value says more about them than anything else. I’m not sure any good satire has really escaped this fate.

Trees

Agreed on the Kirk takes. Doesn't seem like many people can walk the line, despite it being quite simple. Condemn violence and don't change your stance on him.

Cautious Dissolute

It's happened to me too: that bloody Gary keeps getting recommended to me. Thanks fellas 🤣 I also saw Money and Macros video and I don't think you're being too cynical regarding your read about the invitation at the end of the video

murray shalom

The majority of mass shooters I think are deeply unwell but I don’t think statistics bear out that most have serious diagnosable mental health disorders, including personality disorders. I think most are lonely and obviously open to unhealthy suggestion. But a quick google seems to back up that they don’t have serious mental health conditions. Maybe this is only referring to political killings but honestly we don’t see enough of those to have much of a baseline. Based on the limited knowledge of this likely shooter he might have been angry about hateful messaging but that doesn’t make him seriously mentally unwell. I know I’m being pedantic but this is always mentioned after a mass shooting or assassination attempt and it can create a false sense of how dangerous those with actual serious mental illness are.

Francha

In relation to nothing: Gurudum! Yay. Wordsmatter (choose your meaning)

Lys

Rogan: testosterone fuelled apophenia in an echo chamber

Kyle Dun

Ok, so my big issue with this episode is Matt's shameful and divisive rhetoric trying to split the DTG Patreon community and pit us against each other. I post good food and make modest efforts (largely to combat the eating). I will not fall prey to your binary framing Professor Brown!

Elissa

Ahoy!! My fifteen minutes ( seconds ? ) of fame arrive ! I’m simultaneously delighted and bashful. Do i intend to put Prof Matt on a pastry in a Turin shroud? Will Chris’s image likewise be immortalised fleetingly ( is that a thing ) on edible starches? You may have to wait, but I’ll try damn it. I’ll try.

Linda Sears

Matt, do not be deterred from baking because of the croissants! Those are notoriously difficult to do (I’ve thought about trying and was told this).

Harsh Deshpande

Isn’t Destiny precisely doing a generous tit for tat? Given that the generosity has been shown over the past decade with little reciprocation from the other side.

Linda Sears

That’s kind of amazing you had a drugs video game at school. Was this a plot by Big Pharma? Back in my day, our games in school were: hang man on the chalk board, Rubik’s cube races, find the city on the world map, and Speak and Spell.

Jonas Berge

Was the emailing guru Sam Harris?? Sound like him

Dries T.

Goddamn Kisin! As though it's so hard to know anything at all about Orban and Hungary's years of obstructionism in the EU - while he positions himself as a political commentator and observer who constantly comments on international relationships. Hypocrite...

SHOUNAK SARKAR

Life as a podcaster is indeed easier if you’re fundamentally dishonest haha! Great quote Matt. The problem lies a lot with the audience too though for being so stupid, gullible and not displaying sufficient skepticism.

SHOUNAK SARKAR

Btw boys, speaking of good gurus, you should consider covering some Australian and Indian gurus haha!

Beel

Konstantin should stick to shilling organ meat.

Joseph Sullivan

Game theory analogies aside, I think the commentary on Destiny missed the mark. He isn’t refusing to disavow violence, he has and does often, even on Piers Morgan. Rightly he is trying to turn the conversation towards the causes of extremism and violent rhetoric. Correctly he points to Trump, and contrasts his approach to this tragedy with other presidential examples and the hypocrisy of the White House’s response. Trump is using Kirk’s death to full affect, and is seeking to manufacture consent for a broad crackdown on opposition and free speech in the USA. I cannot stress enough how horrific and chilling this is, and the speed to which it is happening is shocking. When Chris talked about Kirk, I almost shuddered, because if he were in the US right now, at an American university, he would most likely be targeted for what he said, which to be clear, was inoffensive, correct, and measured. Truly, we are living in frightening times, and I understand Destiny’s resistance to repeating the ritualistic disavowal of political violence that is demanded of any liberal voice right now. Because the problem we have is not that center-left Democrats are inspiring violence through rhetoric — the problem is that our institutions, rights, and probably our future is being taken away by an alliance between oligarchs and Christian’s nationalists, led by an authoritarian cult leader. Fuck me.

Dan Kolbert

Disappointed to hear the gratuitous both sides nonsense re: Luigi mangione’s groupies. On the one hand, anonymous people posting memes about how dreamy he is, on the other the president of the United States and the world’s richest man calling for the extermination of their enemies in response to Kirk’s killing. Not to mention most of the politicians of the party that controls the executive, legislative and judicial branches. When chuck schumer or Hakeem Jeffries start wearing “free Luigi” t-shirts on the floors of congress, we can talk.

Philip Grant

My gaming knowledge is stuck in the last century, so I'm proud to be able to tell you that well akshually, you meant to refer to the 1990s classic Dungeon Keeper, not the 1980s classic Dungeon Master.

Kgar

Wild to hear how violently antivax Rogan is. Covid was double blind tested. Ask anyone that was a test subject. DDT and polio? The guy is so far gone. Truly.

Kgar

You know what’s not tested joe? Your fking supplements. Joe gets so animated. I feel bad for him being that stupid. He can’t help it. Meantime he gets monoclonal antibodies to save his ass during Covid Unbelievable I’d love for someone to explain to him what monoclonal antibodies are. ‘ “But I don’t wanna talk about”—while talking about it

Graham Clarke

Does Gary’s recognition by a school of economics not completely invalidate his position?

David Noble

You mentioned Taylor Lorenz but there was no follow-up in the content with Blocked and Reported, the clips were all talking about other people.

Kgar

Are you trying to remember Oregon Trail? Very popular with my kids back in the day

John Pohl

DDT was first used in the 1930s. So, how does Rogan explain polio BEFORE that time?

Joanna Mulvaney

hey if anyone is interested in a simple fact based explanation of what’s going in with ivermectin research and what the molecule actually does, one of my writers just finished a piece: https://medicalnewsbulletin.com/whats-the-deal-with-ivermectin-and-cancer/ i also wrote up the paracetemol/autism study last year explaining why they looked into the relationship and how they showed it was indirect: https://medicalnewsbulletin.com/acetaminophen-paracetemol-not-responsible-for-autism-tylenol/

Matt Dear

God Rogan is a fucking idiot.

Matt Dear

I really like Two Point Museum! Def my favourite in the series.

Brock Bakke

"Destiny is now back to doing this as normal. His appearance on Whick TV was out of character because he was engaging in a way with the violence advocacy that I had never seen before. He's been good more recently." This is a very ambiguous statement. Both of you should clearly state your opinions about topics, instead of insulting and giggling like gossiping school-girls, and sniping without taking a clear stance. It's easy to be a critic. What you are doing is *easy*. What Destiny is doing is hard. Watching him debate conservatives that are in a fugue state of anger over irrelevant people not disavowing violence, while supporting a president that is literally creating this violence is a pretty solid stance. There is no ambiguity over this issue. Conservatives are creating violence through rhetoric, and are too stupid to recognize this, and are indignantly attacking other people for the violence they created.

Bobby Wayward

Hey DTG, do you have any other platforms for your galaxy brain content? I love the show and I want to keep subscribing - but Patreon has recently changed its home page and now it’s full of ads for other Patreons that I’m not interested in - so I will be cancelling all of my Patreon memberships and then uninstalling the app when the subscriptions are over

Justin Wolcott

OMG! Matt, I don't think you realize it but you had the best anti-anti-vax argument I've ever heard: If vaccines caused autism, why would profit-obsessed pharma companies spend hundreds of millions extra to manufacture "poison" that creates lifelong liability - when they could just sell cheap saline solution instead and avoid all autism-related lawsuits while maximizing profits? The core logical problem: If companies only cared about money and vaccines caused autism, they'd have every financial incentive to sell harmless placebos rather than expensive "toxins" that would generate massive legal costs.

Pedro

I continue to find the lack of skepticism towards gender critical journalists like Singal, Herzog, and Lewis disappointing.

erikperik

I had to take a break and listen to something else after the Rogan part, that was painful. I'm amazed (and thankful) that you are able to go through so many hours of these horrible people's horrible content.