Home
Creators
Search Recent Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Register Favorites Keys Review DMs Logout
Community
Telegram ThePornDude
Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

A Sense-Making Odyssey, Part 2: Jordan Peterson, John Vervaeke & Jordan Hall (Patreon)

Published:
2025-09-24 21:31:08
Edited:
2025-09-24 21:47:52
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Downloads

  • Sensemaking Episode 2.mp3

Some files exceed the archive size limit and weren't saved: 1 file. Please note these limits are in place to keep this site running long term, without costing a fortune. You can favorite the creator though, certain milestones increase the limit.

Content

Matt and Chris once again take up their oars and plunge deeper into the recursive whirlpools of contemporary sensemaking. Picking up where Part 1 left off, having grappled with conscience, touchstones, hierarchies, and normativity, we return to the sensemaking labyrinth to see just how many more words and concepts the combined powers of Peterson, Vervaeke, and Hall can stretch to breaking point.

This second leg of the voyage allows us to chart more of the universal sensemaking grammar, with its biblical scaffolding, liberal use of metaphors, and frequent exhortations to ascend Jacob’s ladder. But alongside Peterson's predictable biblical musings, you will also hear John Vervaeke unveil how finite transcendence connects to inexhaustible intelligibility, while Jordan Hall explains that even silence can be a form of sensemaking.

Expect dream ropes and ecological psychology refashioned for mystical ascent, Augustine rediscovered through Plato, and culture reframed as an alcoholic parent. The discussion also detours into atheists and their Luciferian egos, the sacred role of play, and the curious conviction that profound revelations can be drawn from childhood disappointments at McDonald’s and grandfather's complaining about Nixonian duplicity

So join us for the final leg of the Sensemaking Odyssey. Sharpen your mind, get ready to traverse through 3D space, and prepare for the Logos in the context of listening to a podcast.

Sources

A Dialogue So Dangerous, It Just Might Bring You Wisdom | John Vervaeke and Jordan Hall | EP 532

Comments

Martin 🇧🇻

About the "Just because I'm not speaking doesn't mean I'm not actively participating/who knows what's real" from Jordan Hall (I think) - are you saying that was not some sort of meta/self-referential joke?! I am pretty new to the "guru"-space, but I just assumed he was joking as a way to excuse that he wasn't speaking. But this is the first time I've heard of Jordan Hall. Those of you who know more about him - was he serious?

Joel G

When Chris started making sense of the sense-making, I couldn’t help but think to myself, “Nice!”

Dank Sparrow

Physics is fine, metaphysics is fine... Mixing them together is like meth.

Jenny

Not being in a similar field as them I haven't read the authors they talk about, so I can't speak to the substance with any authority - though their waffle and tortured connections come through loud and clear - but I have read Dante and Peterson's take on it makes me wonder whether he's actually read it. Inferno (the one where he descends into hell before going through Purgatory and Paradise) is the least metaphorical of the 3-part work, and is in fact very concrete and critical of his specific situation - wars, politics exile, people's behaviors and choices. It's weird that he gets all symbolism-heavy with it. But if we are going to get all symbolic, their conversation was my journey though hell.

Nat J

"Big enough to nip ya?'" would make a nice catch-phrase for Chris. Throw it into every episode to the applause and laughter of the studio audience. But I have to take exception to the suggestion that you can "cause a bit of terror". Can you have just a bit of terror? Is it scalar? If you're at a 1 on the terror-scale, can you really describe it as "terror" any more?

Carina S.

Beautiful, guys! Thank you for suffering through the sense making for us. My favourite part was Jordan Hall saying that he's contributing on a higher level when not saying anything and John Vervaeke replies: "You're very gifted at that." What continues to puzzle me is that Peterson has been talking about the exact same words and "ideas" for 10 years and he's still presenting them as if they were new revelations 😒

Carina S.

I just wish Vervaeke had been brave enough to invoke Hermes openly and ask him to demonstrate pulling them up, vertically, away from the inferno.

Melinda

Flopping around like a fish one minute, wallowing in the mud the next. These episodes had a perfect balance between the post-coital tone to the gurus voices vs the sheer giggling delight from Matt and Chris. All of my 3 simultaneous paradigms are loving it!

Ando

Man, JP has a raging hard-on for Cain and Abel

Nat J

Can confirm: in at least one book Plato’s theory of immoral actions is that they are entirely the result of ignorance.

Erland Hvittfeldt

I think I fell asleep and missed the dangerous part of the conversation. Sensemaking cubed was a lot more fun. Those guys made little effort to ground the conversation in the bible or psychology so their mind castles were more spectacular.

Erland Hvittfeldt

But one thing clicked, when JBP talked about arguing with your spouse, and how the "spirit of constructive peace" can answer you when you consider the long term of the situation. Most of us can relate to the difficulty of considering the long term when you're angry, but to these guys, there is an external intervention that guides you right. And that's recurring, whether it's Hermes, demons or benevolent spirits. It's a different way of living in the world, and can border on the pathological.

Matt Dear

It's so funny that they complain about postmodernism, and then talk like this

Brett

I'm with Matt here, my brain short circuits while trying to listen to the sensemakers. Kudos to Chris for following along and explaining it lol

Amy S

This is torture!

Dries T.

"In the context of his home" makes me snort every single time.

Simon Larry

i just get so much joy out of you two enjoying sensemaking jibberish. the moment matt gives up and chris begins to shine even more to pull both of you through is always my personal highlight. this is entertainment at its best!

jubshit

This could be a study of fractals in conversation. Their shorelines will always be the longest because they can always find new things to measure. While they winnow their fruited fields of ideas to try and figure out WTF they're talking about (ultimately as Jordan would dare say) during the "hospitality is ritual is play" theater, there is no seriousness left. They've connected the dots, they've caught the car, the MUST move on to something else before they say something that can be construed as a finite point!! They won't be held accountable by their words because they will redefine them. It's tourist tripe stuff. Oops, I mean tourist trap. Seems great on the outside but once you're in it's all shit.

jubshit

Oh, also this was a good episode I suppose. It was stressful at some points. I don't know how you did it. I really don't. In fact, it pisses me off that I don't know. I feel like I'm owed the knowledge.

Nina J.

So if all the thoughts of the great thinkers and all the social science and all the great literature of every age can pretty much be distilled into the Bible, what the fuck do we need sensemakers for? Why connect all these constellations when they’re all essentially the same anyway? Shouldn’t Jordan et. al. spend their time selling Bibles? I hold on to a thin hope that it’s because somewhere deep in Jordan’s tortured brain, there remains the shadow of a man who once appreciated humanistic triumphs and realized that many versions of Christianity – including the ones for which he now provides cover – stand in explicit opposition to intellectualism of any kind. Probably, though, he just doesn’t notice the incongruity because he’s a narcissistic twat-waffle incapable of honest self-analysis.

Nina J.

Also, I think what Hall meant is that he speaks at a frequency outside the perceivable range of the beta-human ear, since he’s just that evolved; ERGO, he WAS talking the whole time!

Linda Sears

I haven’t listened yet, but I’m really hoping for some Three Stooges people tipping over ladders and paint buckets falling on people’s heads type of hilarity. After all ladders, nonsensemaking, and danger typically result in such outcomes.

Kimberly Beer

These are helping me cope with the hellscape of living in DC at the moment— thank you! Also, I couldn’t help but wander off in thought thinking about what Lex might be up to

Ingvar Vanir

Thanks for this hilarious decoding - a sense making extravaganza so rich in fundamental insights that can only be summed up as intellectual masturbation. Heard this as I was navigating in the context of my home and the self-indulgent dialogues are unintentionally comedic. 5 stars 😆

PaulBFB

I'm sorry how did Chris not comment on how cliche Australian that terror management story is 🤣 "My colleague had this nice experiment, he gave people..." Told in an Australian accent - what in the Dundee 🤣🤣🤣

Ema

This feels like the time I heard simultaneous spanish/english translation and instantly lost the abiity to understand either language.

Da Jay SwIzzle

Man at 1hr20ish and the topic of "self deception" - lol @ Peterson saying "I think all the time about self deception". However much you think about it Jordan, you're not doing it ENOUGH

Linda Sears

I was a little surprised that Vervaeke wasn't aware of or hadn't fully appreciated the connection between Plato and Greek philosophy in general and Saint Augustine's theology. Before he converted to Christianity, Augustine taught Classical rhetoric in Rome, Carthage, and Milan and was much influenced by Platonism and Manichaeism, which is partially why he denigrated the body/physical world (he also seemed to find it really annoying that he couldn't control his errections). I guess Vervaeke needed that extra Jordan Petersonesque magic to make it all fall into place for him.

Kyle Dun

Good episodes but agree im glad to leave the sense makers behind. That felt like being water boarded.

Gavin Bewick

Excuse my ignorance if this has been posted elsewhere in the DTG community, but this video was delivered to me by the YouTube algorithm and it was all I could think about whenever I heard Jordan Peterson's voice this episode https://youtu.be/fgPX11UgL1k?si=CJq9DZ4ZEzCxJpFg

Gavin Ryan Studio

Surprised they didn’t connect the dots between hospitality and humility… too obvious no doubt…

Elissa

A ‘Best in Show’ reference. A statement that the majority of liberal women are bat shit crazy. The music fading slowly in over Matt and Chris sense making into the sunset … So much to love

Martijn Faassen

What is Sense? It is the inner monologue masquerading as the deepest conversation. In a spiral of supportive dialog, we ascend to a higher elevation. We reach for the ineffable divine, see an incline but not our own inclination. We connect the universe with ducttape and with wires of the logos and the holy ghost. Bible in one hand, Freud in the other, we have the concept and the metaphor. We have so many, we have the most. We cover you and smother. We have the words, no editor. You may grow somnolent while we eat our salad of signifiers. But on our summit of humility we do not have a care, just a sense of simulated tranquility. For to be truly humble is to boast. We're lost within the forest of the clouds, each white fluff a monument, so magnificent but lost within its shrouds. The trembling bridge of our silver tongues leads to castles in the air. You may sit down there in the grass and enjoy how the sunshine makes you feel, but on Jacob's ladder we are on the higher rungs. An angel and a demon from some other spheres sit on our shoulders, whispering in our ears. They're not literal but real. And if that gives you bother, then you are just crass and disconnected from the Father. We reside in self-referential awe and pass on the word of every quack and thus pursue the highest law. Moses called as he lost his staff along the way. The dual vector belongs to math, Dante says he wants Inferno back, But they belong to us now on our path. They're the toys with which we play.

Linda Sears

Jamie Wheal was playing the third wheel. That made me laugh.

Josh T

Would love to hear a Jordan Hall sentence without the word “context” in

Vivian

So confusing l listened twice. 😭😭😭😭 I’m concerned I’ll be on my deathbed and the random synapses will spark back to this and I’ll hear the words verticality and “Pageut” and be convinced I’m being sent to Peterson Christian hell.

Greg

Random side note, but: Schizophrenics are proficient in 'yes and-ing'? Can someone explain that connection to me?

Lucyna

I graduated from verticality to horizontality this episode and that sparked enough joy for me to join this Patreon.

JustMe

I cannot believe these people have gotten wealthy off this moronic blathering.

Jackie Brown

Oh my god. Great two parter that took me four tries to get through What I find really astounding is how these guys never miss a beat: they are ready with stream of consciousness nonsense for every topic or word. They immediately launch into it. How do they do it? Do they practice? Do they have topic cheat sheets at hand with bullet point reminders? Amazing

Steve Edge

What was Jorden saying there..... Sounds like a game show. Brilliant stuff gents. 😂😂😂

Linda Sears

I know I shouldn’t care, but it bothers me that Jordan P claims the ultimate sin at the bottom of the pit of Dante’s Inferno was betrayal against the Holy Ghost/the self’s ability to transform so as to be able to go up that ladder. The betrayals were against other people, the religion, and the state. Yes, those can be viewed as betrayals of the self, but so could the other sins, like gluttony (my circle in Hell). It is my understanding that the traitors were the worst because they violently destroyed the bonds of trust (love) that hold people together, creating civil unrest and cynicism. For all the religious aspects of Dante’s Inferno, it was also very much a work about politics and human relations.

Max

I'm gradually warming up to Vervaeke. There's a harmlessness and a quiet kindness to him, almost like Bobby from The Sopranos - off in his own world, playing with his toy trains.

Robbie

Oh my gosh. Imagine being a fan of Jordan Peterson.

Jill

Losing the will to live listening to this ….. 🥺

Jill

But for Matt and Chris’s chortling 🤭

Linda Sears

I guess I must be part sensemaker because I enjoyed every minute of this! Hearing Matt bring his psychology knowledge and Chris bring his anthropology and religious knowledge to what these three were talking about is helpful because I can see where the ideas they are playing with come from and where they don’t cohere with reality or evidence. I tend to be a synthetic thinker as opposed to an analytical one, so I get the appeal of these three. However, they take synthetic thinking too far, and it seems like the more perspectives they add, the more intellectually smooshy it gets as they try to reconcile their different positions into one master paradigm. Anyway, listening to this makes me reflect on my own sensemaker ways. Thanks!

saudadiste

I laughed like hell when Matt & Chris each said to the other at one point "oh my God, you're a sensemaker!" when they thought the other was making associative leaps or being too convoluted in a response 😂