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Advance Release: Mini Decoding of Michael Shermer (Patreon)

Published:
2023-06-21 06:08:17
Imported:
2026-06
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Hey everyone,

This episode will be released on the main feed soon but thought you might like an advance preview.

It concerns Shermer's appearance on Triggernometry in which he gave advice about how to spot a TRUE conspiracy. The topic was right up our alley and full of such bad advice that we felt obliged to respond.

Feedback welcome! Including any reports of audio issues.

Comments

F

Matt, the thing in Ruanda happened in 1994, not 1992. Better edit that for the official release if you dont want to get crucified on historical misinformation!! Seriously great episode. In regards to the CIA misusing/delegitimizing the term Conspiracy Theory: shermer refers to a memo that (surprise surprise) never claimed anything such. Ofc he has not read it but its sort of an evergreen in the CT scene

Colin Fardey

Has he always been this bad ? I’ve been familiar with Shermer for a long time , but he seems to have gotten worse and worse. He now seems to constantly tip toeing around the feelings and sensibilities of the person interviewing him or the people he interviews . Is it a case of someone who is influenced by in-group dynamics to the point that they are hesitant to be critical of their views?

Colin Fardey

What are the chances of him taking up the right to reply?

Jim Murray

Great episode cheers guys. Franz is correct, the date of the Rwandan radio station broadcasting is 93/94, but it's a great point. I recall reading an article describing the run up to the genocide and the DJs who were talking about murdering Tutsis on the air, literally used the 'It's just a joke!' line as an excuse when challenged.

rick yifrach

I want to say something a bit more meaningful or clever about this mini decode, but I ain't got nothing coming to me at the moment. This episode was truly a great learning experience. The ability Chris and Matt have developed to distill what was such a diluted and abstract topic-gurus, and to make some sense of it all is pretty damn impressive to say the least! The quality of the content continues to mature, and the language to describe the methods that are used by gurus and con artists is evolving into something that is tangible and useful. It feels like the birth of a new discipline, that will hopefully flourish into something that can unmask the deceitful predators that infect people's minds with those same old stories and tropes that we fall for generation after generation. The flavor might change, but the saccharin is still the key ingredient. How is that for some guru rhetoric? I actually mean it though. You guys keep getting better, and I have been here from episode 3, and I thought those were great, and they are, they stand the test of time, but the new stuff is killer! It's like two great jazz musicians riffing off one another, caught in a cosmic dance being seen by an audience of one, and the audience knows that they are witnessing greatness being created out of the ether. Now that's some guru rhetoric right there! Love you guys. Keep on truckin'!

Tim Tripp

I think it was the Bolivian military that actually executed Che Guevara after direction from their government. Seems to me that Mr. Shermer sometimes employs the Gish Gallop.

poodie

1:10:45 there are ample examples of left-wing equivalents to this. Do you find them triggering as well?

Robert Andrews

That bit where Shermer says "I bet when people get elected president they get taken in the back room and shown how it really is..." This is just stealing a bit from Bill Hicks, a complete conspiracy theorist, who made the joke about how presidents get elected and then are shown by the "People who REALLY run the country" and it is a video of JFK getting shot... from the grassy knoll, and then they turn to the president and say, "Any questions?" The Chuckle Brothers from Triggernometry should have recognized that given that they are ostensibly comedians. Stealing material is the cardinal sin in comedy.

Jeanne H-B

Thanks for taking on Shermer. Over the past decade and some, he has been on an ice floe from the break up of the skeptisphere. I saw his floe drift to hang with the creepy, sexist, libertarian jerkisphere. Saddened, but not surprised.

Daniel

Good episode. Minor comment: I don't think Trump was "indicted" by his own party as was said. He was impeached, which was maybe what Chris meant, but even then it was Democrats and only a small number of Republicans voting for that. The majority of his party's Congresspeople have always publicly supported him to date, sadly.

SHOUNAK SARKAR

Cheers guys, this mini-decoding was a very nice way to fill my work commute and start my day! With regards to Shermer, where do I start? How is this guy able to market himself as a professional skeptic? It's a joke right? If you are a "skeptic", your default heuristic should be to investigate conspiracies, debunk them if wrong and provide the correct explanations. NOT TO freaking praise conspiracy theories as "normal" and just attribute it to a healthy mistrust of govt. Like witches were burnt at the stake and people were harmed badly because of conspiracy theories coupled with prejudices. This guy is a moron! I was aware of how bad Shermer was already, but you guys summarised all the main criticisms really well. Matt, you are bang on about the sheer stupidity of holding the free speech absolutist position. These 100% free speech guys remind me of naive ideologues who don't posses any real life experience. Just see what happens when social media and communication platforms are completely unmoderated, it all devolves quickly into a rabid cesspool. The comparison to the Rwandan genocide is really apt! Chris, I feel every inch of the disgust and cringe you feel towards Shermer! Agree, he's better than Rogan but not by a whole lot. And BTW, Kisin should stop calling himself a centrist. Like why do they even feel the need to do that? Trigonometry is not even centre-right, its basically a couple of lazy, misinformed buffoons with posh British accents and annoying, reedy voices spreading hard-right wing populist talking points. Are they really just British Tim Pools without the beanie haha :)?

MaxPlan

Great episode, I am fascinated by the set of skeptics that abandon their skeptical toolbox just because of woke college students. What do you think it is happening here? Is it just that we are all susceptible to adopt incorrect beliefs? It just baffles me that many of the patterns they use, go against the skeptical method. Another figure from the old skeptic/atheist days is peter boghossian, he has posted stuff comparing climate change to a religion.

SHOUNAK SARKAR

BTW boys, sorry for another comment. But please consider interviewing Tom Nichols. He is the guy that wrote "The Death of Expertise" in 2017 and "Our Own Worst Enemy" in 2022, both really excellent books. He is a moderate conservative Never Trump guy and bit of a fellow traveller to you two. "The Death of Expertise" was about the rise in conspiracies, the modern trend of "doing my own research" and people distrusting experts. Recently he also had a falling out with Shermer on Twitter, because of Shermer siding with Joe Rogan on the whole RFK Jr Debate vs Doctor Hotez thing. He would be a superb guest on the pod!

Christopher McLaughlin

I used to subscribe to Skeptic magazine about a decade ago. Later on I lost track of Michael Shermer but still regarded him highly. Then one day I saw he had a podcast episode titled “Jason Hill on What White Americans Owe Black People.” I thought maybe I’d find a well argued case for reparations or something like that from the guest. Nope. Jason Hill turned out to be the most libertarian libertarian, to the extent that I believe he refers to himself as a “radical individualist.” His political philosophy was wacky at best and Michael Shermer loved everything that came out of his mouth. It’s a fun listen, but it doesn’t start heating up until after the 20 minute mark: https://www.skeptic.com/michael-shermer-show/what-do-white-americans-owe-black-people-racial-justice-in-age-of-post-oppression-jason-hill/

Christopher McLaughlin

Holy shit Chris I’ve just discovered Professor Jason D Hill’s Twitter page and it’s a treasure trove! He doesn’t have many followers but he tweets a lot and in most tweets he will @ 5 to 10 heavy hitters like ConceptualJames, DennisPrager and DineshDSouza to name only a few. He’s like a fine wine of heterodox and conspiratorial thinking that only the real connoisseurs know about. Now I understand why Michael Shermer agreed with him about everything, Jason Hill is too fun to deny.

Linda Sears

What I often think about with conspiracy theories are two things: how many people have to be quiet about the conspiracy (the more there are, the less likely it is to be true) and were the actions taken worth it? For example, I can see the CIA trying to kill Castro because he was the enemy of the USA, but JFK? Even if they didn’t like him, they knew he wasn’t going to be president forever, and the fallout from such an assassination in the middle of the Cold War would be far too risky. It seems like Shermer does not understand the minds of people who occupy positions in government. As a libertarian he may be biased because he does not appear to comprehend the complexities that politicians and people in the government face everyday.

Cesare

You forgot to mention how horrible of a libertarian he was being. If he was true to the philosophy, then he has no damn business commenting on who social media companies should or shouldn't be platforming. They are private businesses after all, so the most he could've said was that the free market would decide if they made the right decision or not. He's perfectly free not to engage with those social media companies if he doesn't want to, as does anyone else. It's not his place to make any moral judgments on what they do. That seems to always be the issue with libertarians, so very few of them are ever actually consistent with how much respect and deference they'll give to businesses. If the businesses hurt people the libertarians don't like, then they say that's the right of those businesses. But god forbid the businesses hurt them, even if it's just their feelings, or people the libertarians are sympathetic to, then all of a sudden the businesses have no right to do so. It's such an emotionally immature and unrealistic philosophy.

NIALL DAVISON

"Just type in the code DTG 10 to get 10% off your first order of Athletic Greens" - Save yourself, Matt! Chris has been captured and he's clearly too far gone! There's still a chance for you to escape the Mattrix. Shit, I mean Matrix!

Maria Ramelton

Hi everyone, I'm so delighted to be here🥰.

Maria Ramelton

How do I change my profile pic? I'm old and technologically challenged. Help much appreciated 👍

Maria Ramelton

P. S. I'm absolutely loving this episode 😻

Maria Ramelton

I couldn't agree more with you Chris, regarding Alex Jones, He truly is despicable!