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We are all about evolution and optimisation at Decoding the Gurus ™ so join us for an inaugural experiment in formatting. We have taken a waffley intro segment, exercised it from a decoding episode, and somehow ended up with something even more waffley. 

We are still playing with the structure  and what exactly we will cover but the basic idea is to make the Decodings episodes a bit shorter and more focused and move the intro segments to a separate episode. This means there will possibly be a quicker release cycle for episodes and more of them. So nothing is going away, there will still be full-length decodings, interviews, and mini-decodings, we might just also have supplementary material episodes. 

We would appreciate feedback as we are still in the tinkering stage. 

Let us know what you think works and what does not. We promise to try and not to be (too) defensive.

As for this specific episode it covers:

- Sensemaking!- Jordan Peterson's most recent meltdown- Bret's pining after Elon- The optional ethics of supplemental sponsorship

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Comments

John Graham

Love this idea. There's a time for being fairhanded and educational, and there's a time for talking internet BS and dunking on the Jordsteins

Robert Andrews

Nice! Love the waffly banter at the beginning. The decodings and interviews are always good, but we really want to hear about your reactions to the latest wacky escapades of the gurus.

Gareth Daniels

I totally agree with John! So, instead of supplementary materials what about 'His Dark Materials' (if Phillip Pullman is cool with it) afterall is this not an expose of the Dark Arts. Maybe 'Their Dark Materials'...

Maarten Wesselius

Seems like a good idea. Current format is also fine with me though.

Cesare

Aww. No biggie, but the banter helps me not be quite as distraught hearing the decodings.

Alex A

I like the less guru-focused discussions like this episode. May as well be standalone! Regarding the naming, maybe “Water Cooler Talk” is more apt than “Supplementary Materials”. While I appreciate the academic allusion, the latter feels like it has to be connected to something else (a main document or episode) to make sense. My 2 pence!

Randy

Love the banter. For names: Advanced Gurology? Bonus Tracks or Trax? Guru Apocrypha? Some crazy, fake Australian word like Whoozeewuzzah?

Emma

Wow AG1 is really aggressively going after the podcast market! If you started to promote it I'd have barely any podcasts left that don't feature adds for green juice. I might even give in to the brainwashing and buy it.

Robert Andrews

On the AG1 thing, I think that Chris Williamson's mate did a takedown of AG1 pointing out how it was obviously crap, but he also said that AG1 uses the promo codes to work out where the main sources of revenue come from. I assume, as you say, that they don't care how the ads are read and are more interested in the bottom line. The same is probably true of many of the podcasters who promote it. Whether they know or care about it being garbage, if the cheques come rolling in (or whatever the digital equivalent is these days) they are more likely to promote it the way that benefits both the podcasters and the AG1 company. On that point, I am glad that you turned them down. Funny that Matt either doesn't remember or didn't know AG1 had contacted DtG. I remember that Chris made veiled references to it.

James Pulver

I might be the only one, but as I listen on a podcast app rather than YouTube / patreon app, I don't really care how long an episode is. Many podcasts I listen to have segments so I don't think trying to get rid of those by making different kinds of episodes is an improvement, rather it's just different. I am not saying don't do it, just don't take extra effort to do so IMO. I actually find your current release pace hard to keep up with. One or two a month 2-3 hour episodes actually let me interspersed other pods sometimes lol. Just Fwiw.

Linda Sears

A Hitchhiker’s Guide through the Guruverse.

Artemis Green

Bite-sized Banter? Decrypting the Discourse? Or Deciphering the Discourse, Discussing the Discourse, Digesting the Discourse, or plain old Decoding the Discourse. Explaining the Ephemeral? Or Ephemeral Exegesis, Exposing the Ephemeral.

Artemis Green

Lol Lex on Navalny - this is next level naïveté even for Lex. Sure Lex - the enemies of the puffy-faced warmonger with the fragile ego just happen to all share an unfortunate clumsiness when standing near hotel windows...

Josh Lemer

Hard to really imagine who the audience is who after all these years is still like "ya honestly I wanna listen to more of this Brett Weinstein guy"

Ymirsdreams

Brand had 'Trews ('true news'), so maybe 'Grews'? Or 'Paradigm 91'? 'There is no glass'? 'Stunningly Plausible?' 'The Collective Maybe-Conscious?' 'Crystalline Structures'? 'Sam Harassment'? 'Dharma-Drama'? 'Guru Encrypting'?

Tasty3141

I was SO GLAD to hear Behind the Bastards and Some More News called out for their advertising. I've posted on their reddits before about this exact isssue and got mostly people defending them or ignoring the point with tangents about late stage capitalism like you identified. Anybody would think the choice was between NO advertisers and Better Help or AG1 or whatever obvious shady companies. The truth is they could definitely get advertisers who sell normal products with no ethical issues--perhaps even products that relate to their podcasts in some way--but instead they are clearly choosing the adveertisers who PAY THE MOST. This is what they constantly criticize the rich businessmen for doing. Caring only about money. Ironically many businessmen actually do care about their customers unlike the roster of scams these youtube advertising networks promote.

Ben D

I like the idea of splitting out the banter and the actual decoding. Having a more streamlined decoding makes the episode more shareable to non-subscribers. For example, my girlfriend has no idea who Jordan Peterson or the Weinsteins are, but listens to Huberman occasionally. She would be more likely to listen to a trimmed-down decoding episode that gets right to the point rather than a bunch of banter about people she has never heard of followed by the actual decoding. I also like that separating the episodes could lead to a stronger distinction between banter/laughing at insane things the gurus do and a more even-handed and academic dissection of content, as another commenter suggested.

A History of Rock n' Roll in Film and Rock n' Roll BONUS MATERIAL

Chris referencing Some More News, Behind the Bastards AND 2 Lazy 2 Try in one episode? Those are some of the paradigms I'm constantly running each week. My worlds are slowly merging into one singularity. Can an appearance by RM Brown be far off? The fact that I'm even suggesting this is stunning! Real talk tho: I do respect Cody, Katy and Robert Evans for the depth of their research and analysis on every single topic they cover (in the case of Some more News, their references are provided in the description of their videos and it's always a gigantic 10 page google doc full of relevant links). However, their style of presentation and the tone of their delivery are a big turnoff and keeps me from succumbing completely to their leftist charms, even though I think I'm on the same side. I would also say this about the channel Renegade Cut. I basically realized what side of the Generation/Politics gap I was on while listening to a Behind the Bastards episode about Dave Rubin. I was salivating for some in-depth deconstruction of his backstory (again!) but could not make it past the usage of the phrase "your whiteness is problematic" in EARNEST by the young guest. Had to bail. I'm too old for this shit, ha ha. I would recommend Robert Evans' free audiobook called "The War on Everything" for anyone who wants an eye-opening history of the fascist right in America.

Exai

Indulgent Duologuing?!

Misselenaus

I feel like it's obvious that these episodes should be called "ChatDtG" Your banter and playing random snippets are my favorite part of your podcast, so I'm here for this! I'll listen to the decoding eps too, but I have to be in a more analytic mindset for those. Love the new format!

Exai

Literary types have been finding new ways of calling irony dead and reactionary every decade or so for the last 30-50 years, but the bit on ad reads and performative irony is basically edging towards critical theory 101, more recently Fisher & Žižek (future victim?): "If our concept of ideology remains the classic one in which the illusion is located in knowledge, then today’s society must appear post-ideological: the prevailing ideology is that of cynicism; people no longer believe in ideological truth; they do not take ideological propositions seriously. The fundamental level of ideology, however, is not of an illusion masking the real state of things but that of an (unconscious) fantasy structuring our social reality itself. And at this level, we are of course far from being a post-ideological society. Cynical distance is just one way … to blind ourselves to the structuring power of ideological fantasy: even if we do not take things seriously, even if we keep an ironical distance, we are still doing them." (Žižek, Sublime Object of Ideology 1989; also almost every other book)

Roland Weber

Like many others, I think it's an improvement to put the off-topic banter into separate episodes. As for a title... News from the Gurosphere Gurosphere Mosaic

Christopher McLaughlin

Lets create a tiered system, like Batman villains, and spend time proportional to the guru’s power level. Lowest Tier - JP Sears/Baby Face, Mikhaila Peterson/Harley Quinn, Douglas Murray/Calendar Man, Gad Saad/Man Bat, Dave Rubin/Kite King, Konstantin Kisin/Tweedledee, Francis/Tweedledum Mid Tier - Jordan Hall/The Penguin, Naseem Talib/Killer Croc, Heather Heying/Talia al Ghul, Andrew Huberman/Scarecrow, Scott Adams/Mr. Zsasz Top Teir - Eric Weinstein/The Riddler, Brett Weinstein/Ra’s al Ghul, Sam Harris/Catwoman, Joe Rogan/Two Face, Jordan Peterson/The Joker Heroes - Chris/Batman, Matt/Robin

LaserRange

TBH: not fussed either way. There are always time stamps to skip ahead if I want . Whatever works for you lads and keeps you motivated to deliver the content is my vote.

Ymirsdreams

This is a down vote for the title 'Thick Short Stacks'.

Hyena Hell

“Supplementary material” episode should be called “the waffle House” although not sure, they have those outside of the states!

Sean Power

Could you interview Lex Friedman even more softly than he does Tucker? Then, perhaps, you could get Putin to interview You more softly again, eg, Putin: “Cake. What kind of cake do you like?” Etc

Adam Sher

John Vervaeke and Paul Bloom sound so similar. Has anyone seen them in tue same room at the same time?

Trees

I ordered a case of Neutonic on a whim, and now I can't quite remember what gave me the idea... I don't understand the moral outrage over AG1. Yes, it is overpriced bullshit. So are most of the items we consume. It's not harmful, and it doesn't make strong enough claims that it would prevent people from seeking necessary treatment, so I wouldn't call it snake oil.

Tim Tripp

Is Brett stalking Elon? Our saviour. God help us.

Sonje Finnestad

I have always enjoyed the introductory material. I vote for more of these!

Rob W

I appreciate the discussion about the advertising on Behind the Bastards and Some More News. I actually like a lot of the material from them - but have listened to less and less recently as the advertising seems to get more intrusive with time.

Erik Fast

I’ve never understood the term “late-stage capitalism”. How do we know we’re in the late stage of capitalism? What if capitalism continues for 10000 years? Seems like a quasi-religious eschatological concept to me.

Christopher McLaughlin

Chris and Matt have we got a real barnburner of a Decoding Academia for you! Jordan Peterson was the academic advisor on his protege Christine Brophy’s masters thesis: Political Correctness: Social-Fiscal Liberalism and Left Wing Authoritarianism. She and Jordan describe their findings to Lauren Southern in a YouTube video titled Where Do SJWs Come From? It gets real weird, real quick, and it seems to a layman like myself that what they say in the video obfuscates their findings in the paper. For example, in the thesis “PC Authoritarians” seems to refer to social conservatives, but in the video they lead Southern to believe it means the radical left? I’m really hoping you guys can shed some light on this.

Linda Sears

I vehemently disagree with Chris being an Eeyore. He is far too energetic.

Artemis Green

Ooooh - what if you did it on a Monday or a Wednesday - and then it could be called 'Monday Midwittery' or 'Midweek Midwittery'. I am listening again and lost in the sensemaking.

Chomagerider

Respect for this hyper capitalistic marketing move. Making these intros separate episodes and putting half of them behind the Patreon paywall finally pushed me over the edge to become a paid member. If that's not a predatory marketing tactic, I don't know what is. I wish you had the ethics of someone like... say... a Hubermann :P Please make more of these. I've come to enjoy the intros almost more than the actual decodings over time.

Pedro

Not that you asked, but I think this change in format is a great one … hope you keep going with it!

Greg

I too happen to enjoy the "guru gossip" a lot. So separating it from the bread&butter decodings to shorten the latter's intros makes sense. Wouldn't mind if you'd still keep a treat or two in those main episodes as well, but maybe limited to 5-10min max. One of you would need to run a timer on this though, since we all know you're not exactly great when it comes to keeping things short naturally 😉

Mindbender

I think the episodes should be called “extra credit”

Matt Dear

Really enjoyed Matt's reaction to Some More News. I also watch it, it is funny, and good. But, you definitely benefit from the context and the visual medium... I have also shown a friend and have them react similarly.

Stüdibranch

I think the move to seperate episodes for the intros is great!

Bubbles

I love the new format! And like others, it convinced me to sign up. What are your thoughts on enabling the Audio RSS link feature on Patreon so we can listen in the podcast app of our choosing? All the other podcasts I subscribe to have it enabled, so I was wondering if it's intentional that you have it disabled, or if that's just an oversight.

Mark K

Captains Log: Supplementary. The gurusphere appears to contain no intelligent life. Fire photon torpedoes and repurpose their carbon into KFC (Klingon Fried Chicken)

Monica B.

I like this split/new format, and it is the thing that finally got me to join over here : ) Thanks for your work—it really helps me parse out how I want to talk to and debate other people, hopefully in a way that is thoughtful and not like a total weirdo like some of the gurus hahaha, and I think overall I’ve become a more discerning listener and critic (even to people whose work and ideas I am a fan of) from you all.

Tree

I would say I am anti-capitalist and I totally agree with you that shilling supplements and living in mansions is hypocritical. Ive known so many activists who work on these causes for free, in a few cases lost their homes or even their lives. These guys who make a fortune just spouting leftist rhetoric annoy me.

Sonje Finnestad

I agree with you. I'm not sure I need to live in "squalor and poverty" but I do think there's a problem if I have a lot more than I need when so many have so much less than they need. (I say that while affirming that what we need is structural change.) I struggle with knowing where to draw the line but some things are pretty clearly over the line!