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Buffy 6x17 - full reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2023-02-01 17:00:15
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

oh man

Files

Buffy 617.mkv

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Comments

Kyle Jordan Ashley Brown

Definitely one of my favs this season. That scene with Joyce always gets me too.....finally got to say goodbye to her mum. Joyce ends up helping Buffy take a big step in overcoming her depression... really miss Joyce x

HuntingSwan

Lexi loooool when you mentioned Angel. Imagine - you're so crazy your delusions have SPINOFFS.

Shelly

I felt the same way about Hell's Bells when it aired but twenty years later, after coming to terms with my own C-PTSD, the specific ptsd from childhood abuse, I understand the entire episode and it makes complete sense to me now. When your parents show you basically no love, you can learn how to love later, but those traumas keep coming up in romantic relationships. It's extremely difficult to see them clearly so they come up constantly. I have to disagree that you can just choose to be different than your parents and you just won't be. Studies show those traumas will get replayed. Getting out of this cycle can feel impossible. Not many people talk about Xander's C-PTSD. It messes you up your entire life, trust me. I'm married now somewhat happily but every day, my c-ptsd comes up even though I've made significant progress with my therapist after 8 years. I'm constantly trying to fix it but I battle it every day.

Stargazer1682

Re: your recap of the last episode at the start of this reaction. I think it would be hard to go into a marriage with such a pragmatic view of, "if something happens/if it doesn't work, we can just get a divorce." Divorce may be on the table now, but most still look at marriage as "'til death do us part," even if that's not as literal as it once was. It's what they hope for going in, isn't it? Isn't that the point? At least In theory. And Xander's parents probably got married in the late 70s/early 80s, coming into peak adulthood through the 80s and 90s - which means they very much would have had and known they had divorce as an option. They were just stuck in a toxic snare of a relationship. And even now, while an important option to have, the decision to get a divorce isn't going to be simple or painless. Xander being self-aware enough to say, "I feel I'm becoming someone who might hurt you" and leaving is pretty much what happened in the last episode; just without a need for divorce. But that's the double edged sword of that kind of fear. It's possible to break those types of toxic patters, but you don't necessarily have the objectivity to really know if you have; and if you haven't, the realization may come too late. So are you being overly cautious or are your fears justified? As it is, Xander's already kind of already started down that path. He has tapped into some strong anger at the flip of a switch; sometimes justified, sometimes irrationally and other times a mix of both. He also already has a history of demeaning the person he's involved with. He did it with Cordelia, with the casual dig about her vanity or appearance, even when they were together. Any time Anya has misunderstood a social convention or said something unusual, Xander has often made a comment that was pretty condescending and even mean - not unlike the way his dad talked to or about his mom.

cosmotron

I think this episode is one of the ones I actively dislike. Not for things like earlier episodes where its not memorable or the jokes don't land. I just really don't like the premise. And the whole 'oooh is it real or not' thing at the end just makes me roll my eyes. It doesn't feel clever or anything to me.

zerofk

"I have this painful hole inside. And I'm the idiot that dug it out." Yep, you really messed up big time, Xander. I really don't like this episode. Playing with the idea that the main character is crazy, and that everything we see is suspect, can be great. There are some amazing movies with that idea. But not in a show like this, and not this late in its run. And especially not including that final scene. It feels like the writers are making fun of the audience. "You guys are idiots who take this shit way too seriously" is all I can hear throughout the episode. From an in-universe point of view, Buffy having been in an institution makes zero sense. There is no way Joyce would forget _her only daughter_ being in an institution, or the reason why she put her there. And we know from season 2 that she was completely blindsided by Buffy being the slayer. I can see there is a lot of good in the episode. SMG's acting in the institution scenes is great. Some of the cuts are very good too. But to me it's all overshadowed by the implication of that last scene.

Raven Dark

I love this episode. I always have. A lot of people don't, and I get why, but I love it. I think there are multiple ways to interpret that ending scene. It could be like you said, that is the the real world and we're in a fake one, but it could also be that both are real. It's an alternate reality existing alongside ours. If that's the case, it's a really chilling option, because it still means there is a Buffy out there who is trapped in a catatonic state.. *Shudder* It's just as scary as the alternative, that the hospital reality is the real world and the one where Buffy is the Slayer is fake. The geek in me can't help think about a third option. Both worlds exist, but6 Buffy is also the Slayer in both. In the hospital version, vampires and mosters are still real, and Buffy is still the Slayer, but no one believes it, and she's so messed up that she isn't sure what's real and what isn't. Which means she was wrongfully labeled as mentally ill and institutionalized, and now has been pushed into a catatonic state. Yikes.

Stargazer1682

I'm not a fan of this episode. There are so many better episodes from other series that play with the idea of the main character experiencing an alternate reality where their own world isn't real; and this one falls flat. I mean, by this point, DS9's "Far Beyond the Stars" was probably the gold standard. As nice as it was to see Joyce and even Hank, half the fun is seeing the juxtaposition of the other characters in contrasting, alternate characters. And as mind fuck episodes go, you can't beat TNG's "Frame of Mind". But like you said, trying to pull the, "it's really all a dream/delusion" is and always has been bad writing. Ron Moore even knew better than trying to pull that with the ending of DS9, even if he was tempted. I also never considered before that even the depiction of Buffy in the hospital is dumb, because they treat it like Buffy has a choice to either give into her illness or get better. Like, what the fuck? Hate, hate, hate the retcon that Buffy was in a psych ward for **two weeks** after first becoming the Slayer; and that Joyce just forgot about it. 🙄

Martin Waits

I love this episode. Top 25 for me. This starts a great run through the end of the season.

Claire Eyles

When your depression reaches the point where remaining in a fantasy land in which you're a mental patient, being taken care of in an asylum, is a momentary comforting alternative to reality. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's a problem, and I love that they didn't just have Buffy randomly snap out of clinical depression one episode, but are showing her continuing to struggle (1 step forward, 2 steps back) because that is realistic.

Robin Davies

I really like this episode. A neat idea, very well executed. I only have two problems. First, as many have already said, it seems wildly implausible that Joyce would just forget that they'd sent Buffy to an asylum for seeing vampires. It's not even necessary to the plot. Second, we get yet another selfish tantrum from Dawn. I would have more sympathy for her character if she was younger. She's old enough to appreciate Buffy's traumas and responsibilities yet she still won't cut her any slack.

Collinson

I'm a little late but lol your intro about Xander and Anya was exactly my thought process when I watched this. More to say but that needs to wait until the season is over. I also love this episode. I love how Buffy writers weren't afraid to experiment with no speaking or having the first musical TV episode. It's what made this series so amazing taking risks.

Ava Sinclair

This is one of my favorite episodes of this season. Great performances all around, we get to see Tara, Dawn broke my heart all over again ('it's your ideal reality and I'm not even there'), but especially Buffy's trajectory and seeing Joyce again. I also thought the whole retcon 'buffy was really in an institution once' is so unsupportable and wish it hadn't been include, but I still loved this episode. Also Buffy has the most forgiving friends ever.

Ava Sinclair

Also once again I completely agree with your rant at the beginning about Xander and Anya. I'm too exhausted at the thought of breaking it down again, but it was just a bubbling bastion of badness and I hate everything about it. I 100% agree it would have been much more interesting to see Xander tackle his insecurities, or at least break up with her BEFORE THE FREAKING WEDDING. It was just so cruel. I still love him and hurt for him but yeah I'd also like an alternate reality where I could punch him in the face.

rattusprat

You said during the reaction that Buffy is struggling because "both of these worlds feel so real to her." I think the reason she's struggling with the decision is because both worlds DON'T feel real. In Sunnydale she hasn't felt like herself all season. She says near the start of the episode that she just wants to snap out of it, but it hasn't been working. Even though being a girl in a mental institution is not the life she would want, and may not feel completely real, she thinks that if she wants to get better, she has to make a drastic choice and take a risk. Trying to get better living in Sunnydale hasn't worked all season, so she may as well, right?

Florence

I like the premise of this episode but two things really annoy me - Dawn's reaction is so uncalled for, since when is being in a mental asylum anyone's ideal reality. Plus what Spike says to Buffy seems to be purely to drive the plot in the direction the writers want it to go, and not in character. Sure he's a soulless arsehole, but we've seen him being relatively accepting of Buffy breaking up with him since she made the pain it was causing her pretty clear

Ron Fehr

A very good point about Angel's world not being able to exist if everything was in Buffy's head.

AlexanderWatches

One of my favorite episodes of all time I love when shows reality bend I fee like every 2000s show did this Supernatural, Charmed. etc etc.

Cory James

Poor Dawn. She has struggled all season with not feeling seen and with feeling abandoned and Buffy went had an alternate reality where she doesn't exist cause she's not real. It's like twisting a knife in an already open wound. It's 'ideal' because it means every shitty thing in sunnydale didn't happen and that has to be better than living there, right? I really think they should have had Dawn be the one to snap Buffy out of it though. Her screaming and being attacked should have been the catalyst but it wasn't.