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Buffy 6x19 - full reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2023-02-22 17:00:06
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

fuck this entire episode

link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ni6lj1wu0293vn8/Buffy%20619.mkv?dl=0

Files

Comments

Salix

And here we go 😬

Martin Waits

the bathroom scene is the absolute worst in the series. just awful decision making from the writers.

Collinson

"Your Shirt?" : (

Claire Eyles

I'd recommend watching the next episode sooner rather than later. There's a little something at the end that might help ease the pain a tiny bit.

cosmotron

Yeah, "fuck this entire episode" basically sums it up. :/

Claire Eyles

As difficult as the bathroom scene is to watch it does provide a very good character study of the difference between Warren, a human with a soul, and Spike, a vampire without a soul. Spike might not do the best job at questioning or even trying to justify the unjustifiable, but he at least does question his actions. Warren, on the other hand, attempted to r*pe and then actually killed his ex girlfriend and doesn't question his actions once. It's just another tick in the checklist of 'Warren is the worst, most evil, and most vile big bad we've seen on the show so far'.

Clara V.

Oh, we're here... yay...

Jason palesa

Oh man I was hoping to send hugs before you got here

Claire Eyles

Honestly for me the worse thing about that Spike scene is the behind the scenes stuff that went with it. The scene was written by a woman (Marti Noxon), and was based on her own experiences - except she wasn't the one who was almost r*ped, she was the one who tried to r*pe her ex boyfriend when she was drunk and thought that forcing herself onto him so they could have sex one more time would somehow get him to come back to her. It didn't work out that way, and she was horrified at what she had tried to do and eventually channelled that into writing the bathroom scene. At the time James Marsters was trying to tell her and the rest of the writers/production crew that, "Yeah I get this was like a worst day ever experience for you, and you deeply regret what you tried to do, but you're writing this scene from the point of a view of a male character trying to r*pe a female character so it's gonna read a lot different than you think.' Of course no one listened to him, so he tried to just outright refuse to do the scene, at which point they pulled out the 'You're under contract, so you don't have a choice' card and more or less forced him into doing the scene. As much as I love season 6 I have to say fuck them for doing that, because it was total bullshit.

cosmotron

Xander is such a hypocrite in this episode. Putting aside when Buffy rightly calls out that Xander has been treating Spike as basically a member of the team and letting him watch Dawn. He's acting as if having sex is on some whole other level, and that having sex with Spike "damaged" Buffy and Anya. And its gross. I hate what he says to Buffy, and you're so right that he was perfectly fine with having a relationship with Anya despite all the murders she has done. But I think what might be worse is how it feels like it re-contextualizes the bathroom scene. Like...'Xander warned Buffy and everyone about what Spike was really like and no one listened'. I don't think that's the intention, but man does it come off that way. And doing that means that it feels like it places onus on what happens in the bathroom on Buffy. So it takes an already gross scene and makes it worse.

Adoreandu

I literally just clicked on the video and your face is so happy at the start, oh no!

HuntingSwan

Honestly, I don't get everyone being so shocked at Spike's actions. Spike has admitted to having already done this to other victims before and regardless, he has murdered and tortured people - including children, remember the story he told Dawn in Crush? I think the scene was good, because up until this point the Spike/Buffy relationship has been portrayed as toxic yes, but sort of still in the category of 'yeah they're wrong for each other but it's hot rough sex'. This really shows the serious perils of this kind of relationship and I appreciate that. Red flags should be observed for a reason.

Claire Eyles

I love that you noticed the body double in the Buffy and Warren fight. That is hilarious watching the actor so obviously shift into a completely different person - he's thinner, he's larger, now he's taller, no he's shorter. LOL

mary smith

I remember watching this live when I was 13. I was so scarred I didn't finish the season and vowed to never watch the show again. It took the whole summer hiatus for me to work up the courage to finally finish the season a few days before season 7 premiered.

John Alexander

I'm so sorry Lexi, this is one sucks pretty hard. The senseless, brutal, cruel nature of her death is, of course, the point. It's supposed to hurt, a lot. I know that's cold comfort but well... there we are.

green_ear_bunny

"Fun fact": Amber Benson (Tara) was in a relationship with Adam Bush (Warren) when the filmed this...

Adoreandu

Something I hadn't noticed before: while Buffy and Tara were both shot in similar locations, you can see Buffy's wound bleed profusely, Xander trying to staunch it, while Tara's doesn't bleed at all. Because you need a heartbeat to bleed. Fuck this episode is painful.

Stargazer1682

This is a rough episode; they pack so much fuckery into one episode. I don't feel like the scene with Spike was out of character, but it is so extreme... I know the writers were trying to reinforce what Spike's inherent nature is, because he really isn't supposed to be a good character; he's not even really an anti-hero here, but part of the audience romanticize him and do all of these mental gymnastic to justify and even sometimes white wash his character and background. There are some that act like he's the vampire messiah or something; and that really needed to be refuted. I'm not convinced this was the way to do it - especially since it still somehow misses the mark for many people, who either bend over backwards to dismiss it or qualify it is simply bad writing. It's 100% something in his wheelhouse and shouldn't be taken for granted. But at what cost? What's more, as has been eluded to - this scene seriously fucked up James. He's talked about how, on the first take, the second he opened the door and walked in, he was so tense it aggravated an old whiplash injury, and he said he felt something pop in his neck and he went down; like he was a puppet whose strings had been cut. After the scene was finally filmed, he was balled up in the fetal position backstage; and he ended up going to therapy as a result of this. Consequently, he has said that all projects he's done afterwards, he's required a clause in his contracts that state unequivocally that he would never be required to do a scene like that ever again.

Stargazer1682

The episode that makes it clear we're all in an abusive relationship with Joss Whedon... God damn, that man is a dick.

zerofk

"Technically, [the three meanies] could kill Buffy." Oh Lexi... I am fully convinced that without episodes like this, and The Body, Buffy would not be this well regarded 20 years later. Not in spite of the pain, but because of it. Episodes like Family, which make you feel good, or like Hush, which are an experiment in style, are all important. But the painful ones are the ones that give the show such longevity. At least that's what I think.

Midnight Crypt Worx

James Marsters had to go to therapy after this it affected him so much. Just playing devils advocate here (of course no excuse to what Spike did), when Buffy and Spike would sleep with each other, that's usually how it started. She'd say no, he wouldn't stop then Buffy would give in. So Spike got confused...plus he's a demon. It's all just bad.

CeNedra

Second patreon watch of 'seeing red' this week, its a hella rough week 😶

Jack

Joss Whedon is a master at giving us exactly what we want, at exactly the wrong time or in exactly the opposite way to how we want it. Woohoo! Willow and Tara got back together, and Amber Benson was just added to the title sequence - just what I wanted! And remember when Buffy came back from the dead, only turns out she was in heaven and not hell? Yay... And before that when Oz came back, only Willow had just fallen in love with Tara? Yay... And before that when Angel got his soul back, just in time to die? Yay... And before that when Buffy made peace with Jenny, and Giles invited her back to his place? Yay... And before that when Buffy and Angel finally slept together? Yay... The tagline for BtVS should be "Wait... No, I didn't mean like that!"

Shelly

The bathroom scene was the only way the audience would finally understand Spike cannot be with Buffy. The audience was too willing to support him and turn the blind eye to his soulless actions for too long.

Crabash

Heart breaking listening to you in the intro and right up to the bathroom scene. All the time thinking someone take the shovel off Lexi. You comments about the trio not being a typical big bad, I think that's the point of season 6, evil does exist in real life and is often worse than fiction. Many people say they don't like season 6 because the main villains are a bit meh. But it did a good job of showing real world problems and evil.

rattusprat

I don't have time to watch your reaction right now, but I am seeing a lot of comments hating on the bathroom scene and dismissing it as a poor writing decision. I agree that it is shocking and will be triggering to some, but I feel obliged to defend that it has value. In basically every previous sexual encounter of Spike and Buffy (except their first one) we have seen Buffy say no, Spike ignore her and move in anyway, and then Buffy give in to the sinister attraction of Spike's cold and muscular body. Spike has been convinced that Buffy loves him since season 5 and doesn't believe her when she says no. The previous episodes have played this dynamic as "TV hot", but now we see a slightly different version of the dynamic that is shot "all too real". Yes it is a dirty trick in the way the contrasting scenes are shot, but there is a valid message in there about the dangers of messing around with consent boundaries. Though it does take a while to cool down from the initial anger and step back to process things.

Shelly

I How can so many people say “Why would Spike do this?” You all must know the answer to that, right? If the audience had paid attention better, they wouldn’t have needed to do this scene because he wouldn’t have any fan girls. But the sheer amount of people who love him, trust him, want to be him, want to be with him, want to be like him, is nauseating. If the audience had understood soulless Spike for who he was when he showed it subtley, when he described it in vivid detail, they would’ve never written this scene. Spike fan girls’ misunderstanding of his character is to blame for its necessity. In Joss Whedon’s world, the first thing you have to understand about vampires as a group is that they are the bad guys that need to be overcome. You must accept this first before you can acknowledge the exceptions.,.

Phoenix Dawn

I knew you were going to hate that. Tara should be fine right? Like, they added her to the opening credits.

Britney

I also hate the bathroom scene in this episode. While some commenters do bring up some interesting points on why this happened, it still doesn't mean I have to like it. I remember watching this as it aired and being totally shocked by what was happening. Then we get to that end scene, and my God, who could have seen that coming?! While I don't consider this a favorite episode at all, I do think it's a pretty powerful one. It really sets things up for the last three episodes which are some of my favorites from the season.

Florence

I hate this episode, to me it just feels like incredibly irresponsible writing. I’m sure there are many who would argue TV doesn’t need to be responsible, but seeing as Buffy has been celebrated as a feminist show and that has shaped Joss’s reputation it pisses me off. I love this show because I love characters like Buffy and Tara, in fact almost all the interesting female characters we get. But Spike and Xander in this episode are just the epitome of some of the issues around sex and gender that are present all the way throughout the show

Britney

I was so invested in the big moments last night, that I forgot to comment about some of the smaller things in the episode that I loved. Andrew just casually sipping his girly cocktail never fails to make me laugh. Also, when Jonathan jumps on Buffy's back. Just seeing this small guy hop on the Slayer's back and Warren saying "Woah, Sparky, didn't know you had it in you." Then after telling Buffy to smash the orbs, she just effortlessly tosses him off her back. That part is just so funny to me.

madfem

Dawn thinks that Buffy's hallucinations in Normal again are her "perfect reality" (she's 15yo so she interprets it like that) so I totally see why she would freak out about not being a part of it, especially since she already has that trauma of "not really existing" from when she learned she's the key last season (sorry I was listening to your intro and disagreeing with your assessment that she's sloppily written 😁)

John Alexander

also can I just say, everybody getting all salty about 6x19 is giving me all kinds of nostalgia :D

Bud Haven

They killed off one character for sure (Spike) and maybe two more? Bloodiest, red, episode ever.

Andrew Pulrang

I think it's possible ... and quite valid ... to dig really deep and "over" analyze both the Spike / Buffy bathroom scene and what happens to Tara. But I also think the question of what the show / the writers are doing in these two developments is pretty easily explained. There was a window of time and a group of movie / TV people who figured that they could use r*pe and super tragic deaths to amp up emotions. They tended to figure this was okay because "going there" and "breaking taboos" was still considered kind of cool and brave and innovative. What only a bit later began to be added to the equation is whether such things are too harmful to the audience to be justified. My own feeling is that the bathroom scene was a very bad move that could have been avoided. As for Tara ... ???

chelsea

it will never not piss me off how xander for some reason things he’s entitled to have a hand in who buffy dates and who she sleeps with. you’re not her boyfriend. you’re her friend. it is none of your business. also yes i signed up to your patreon because i got sick of waiting for your ep20 - ep22 reactions lmao my impatience knows no bounds. i forgot that meant i’d have to watch this whole episode. which i haven’t done since i was 7. for lesbian reasons 🙃. i haven’t even finished watching it yet i’m too scared 😩

chelsea

“they just ruined spike” yeah. that was joss whedons intention. he didn’t like spike. so he had him do something that the audience could never forgive him for. something so completely out of character for even the worst iteration of him. whedon used SA as a means to make the audience hate a character, and traumatised an actor at the same time. don’t even get me started on marti noxan thinking she could just ‘gender flip’ an experience she’d had with an ex boyfriend. this scene is genuinely one of the worst things that ever happened on this show. and it only makes sense when you know the background - that has nothing at all to do with the characters.

chelsea

meet the modern originator of the bury your gays trope. they put amber benson in the opening credits, just to kill her off in the same episode.

Scott Margeson

Yep. And just like that... more than Jenny, more than Angel, more than Joyce, more than Buffy... you just witnessed the most gut-wrenching, most unpredictable death in BUFFY history.

Ron Fehr

Buffy was easily able to find the 'meanies' habitat because of the demon attack in Normal Again. She had just spotted their van, and probably deduced that they were the ones who summoned the demon. And all this took place where she was now.

Ron Fehr

The reference that you didn't get when Andrew mentions Picard and Deanna Troi is a Star Trek: The Next Generation reference. Picard was the captain of the U.S.S. Enterprise, and Deanna Troi was the ship's counselor, who was also from an alien race known as Betazoids. Betazoids are part empath, able to sense the emotions of others. And that's why Andrew says "Get used to the feeling, Betazoid."