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Buffy 7x17 - full reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2023-06-25 16:00:02
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

i need giles and buffy to be okay

link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fxopfl194cego5p/Buffy%20717.mkv?dl=0

Files

Comments

Jontor11

Yay! Another great one. Fantastic flashbacks and the actress playing Spike's mom was incredible. Andrew really doesn't have a clue does he? "A guy named Fred calling from LA, I think he sounds a bit effeminate". LOL!

Captain Hammer

I can definitely see Gile's point. I think Buffy choosing to let Spike roam free when he still has the trigger is pretty stupid. However, if Gile's truly wants Buffy to be a good general it's hypocritical to counter her orders and wishes.

HuntingSwan

One thing which may interest you is that this episode's script had an exchange with Giles and Buffy where he admits to killing Ben for the first time to prove he makes the hard choices. But it was cut in the edit :(

Judson

While Giles should have tried harder to convince Buffy instead of going behind her back, he's completely right. Spike was a lethal vulnerability in the side of good, and Buffy was allowing it to happen. There are dozens of instances a day where The First could have triggered Spike and have him shoot Buffy or snap her neck. They should have made it a priority to fix it rather than continuing to bring him along for missions and letting him roam free.

Bud Haven

The second time he's betrayed her. The first being Helpless. And she knew he wasn't trustworthy when it came to Dawn in the 5th series finally. I wouldn't be surprised if she never looked at him the same way. The First got what it wanted.

zerofk

I love that Giles has a backup library :-D "You're beneath me." and "The mission is what matters." Buffy's good at repeating lines from a distant past to break someone. Loved the reaction :-)

Ron Fehr

I still think that The First was done using Spike as a weapon, and mentioned him killing Robin's mother in order to entice Robin to dispose of Spike. Telling Andrew that it wasn't time.e for Spike yet was just a lie, plain and simple.

Ron Fehr

I can tell you loved this episode. It had what you were looking forward to, Spike and Robin's confrontation, plus a couple of surprise appearances, William's mom and Drusilla.

Britney

I love this episode so much! Outside of the finale, this is my favorite episode from this season. It's basically like a sequel to "Fool For Love". Spike-centric episodes are always some of the best.

Ron Fehr

Look at it this way. Buffy closing the door on Giles was just a speed bump in their relationship. She's had disagreements with her friends before, but they're still her friends.

Ron Fehr

If it wasn't time for Spike yet, I wonder when The First had planned to use him again. Well, whenever that was, it looks like that plan was just shot down. However deceptive he was in this episode, we can still thank Giles for obtaining that stone. Without it, along with Willow's help, the detriggering could never have happened.

Stargazer1682

This episode underscores an interesting contradiction at the core of vampire lore; the human verses demo/vampire identity. Spike says it wasn't really his mother talking to him in the end, but that same underlying plot contradicts this. Spike, after he was turned, in turning his mother, and the reason he did it, demonstrates that the human that was and the vampire they became are one in the same. William the vampire has no reason to turn William the human's mother otherwise; he would have no sentimental feelings towards her, he wouldn't give a crap if she was sick or dying and least of all would have no interest in spending eternity with her. His mother's motivations after turning were deeply rooted in her own psychology. Does that mean she actually resented him? It's possible for the answer to be both yes and no. We even see it in how ambivalent she is with William. She no longer has a filter when it comes to his clinginess and there's presumably resentment about him turning her, yet she still feels strongly connected to him, but like with all vampire relationships we've seen where there's no so, that relationship is inherently going to be toxic. And that's on top of whatever unhealthy relationship they had prior, which was probably cultivated and encouraged by her. It is an interesting contrast with Liam and his father; where Liam's father berated him and Liam doubted his love; only for Liam's father to be at his grave long after everyone's left, not wanting to leave. Liam kills him never knowing how his father felt about him; and the effect of his father's so-called victory over him that Darla describes haunts him with or without a soul. With William it's the other way around; he's showered with affection and coddled while both William and his mother are human and have souls. Without a soul or inhibition's, William's first thought is still his mother, but his mother feels free to let loose all her personal frustrations with him. I guess it's not unreasonable to look past the resentment and recognize that she did ultimately love him, because that's still possible. But saying "it was the demon, it wasn't really her" is completely antithetical to what we see in Spike right after he was turned.

Stargazer1682

I mean, "the mission is what matters" was invariably what Giles was trying to get through to her; they just differed on the risk/benefit analysis Spike had regarding that mission. But I think that does resonate with Robin. He heard his mother talk about "the mission" enough as a kid - even albeit only up to when he was like 3 or something. But he was also raised by her Watcher who would have had the same mindset; and Robin would go on to become a freelance demon hunter (or rogue demon hunter? He does wear a lot of the same suits Wesley used to wear...🤔 ). So I think hearing Buffy talk about the mission kind of put Robin in his place. He's probably not going to be happy about it and may even resent Buffy more for it, but I think he'd have more trouble defying her on that point, because "the mission" is /Robin's/ trigger. As for Spike saying he'd kill Robin if he came at him again, or that Buffy would let him - objectively, with or without a soul, I think it's arguably justifiably to say you'll kill someone if that someone tries to kill you first. It's not like he's saying there's a blood vendetta and Robin needs to watch his back or something; Spike's legitimately saying he held back THIS time account of his own guilt, but if he has to defend himself again, all bets are off. And Buffy's telling Robin, you're valuable enough to me as a fighter to be part of this fight, but not so valuable that I'm going to come to your rescue if you start shit with Spike again. So fuck around and find out.

Stargazer1682

I guess they're kind of consistent in the different perspectives Buffy and Giles have always had; Buffy's more defensive, Giles offensive. Buffy won't sacrifice anyone without an active threat. She refused to kill Spike after he got the chip, even when he proved to be untrustworthy. She wouldn't proactively kill Spike in spite of the trigger (though she maybe should have seen that as an active threat). Whereas Giles is much more pragmatic. He thinks Spike should killed offensively, before he could be used by the First. AND he killed Ben, when Buffy was unwilling to. Although I still don't understand why Giles would kill Ben. I mean, what was Ben doing there in the middle of the fight anyway? And where did Glory go...?🤔🤨

Janel Davis

Just FYI, the title "Lies My Parents Told Me" is a reference to a book that came out in 1995 called "Lies My Teacher Told Me." It was a book that criticized the ethnocentric, American-glorifying narratives that had always been taught in American schools. It was very significant because it was the first time many Americans had been exposed to a lot of ugly truths in our history. I think a lot of it is common knowledge now (likely thanks to the book), but it was incredibly eye-opening at the time. I remember being absolutely shocked by some of the lies I'd been taught.

Mr MidLife

For me, this episode is the point where Buffy realises that she's now stronger, smarter and a better leader than Giles. While she loves him like a father, he's no longer her source of wisdom. A good parent teaches you to grow beyond them, but I don't imagine it's a pleasant feeling at the moment they realise they succeeded.