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Angel 4x20 - full reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2023-07-23 16:00:02
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

the gnarl has found its match

link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rckx8em2xel36y/Angel%20420.mkv?dl=0

Files

Comments

John Sturchio

Love your reactions, but I'm curious- why haven't you been talking about how perfect and flawless Jasmine is? How can you not see that? Are you rejecting her perfect love?

Stargazer1682

Angel as a series hasn't really end its seasons on cliffhangers per se. Season 3 did, but while the season 1's finale set up facets of the following season, between the Shan Shu prophecy and revealing Darla, it wasn't really a "cliffhanger". And season 2 didn't really setup anything for season 3, apart from the presence of Fred, and Angel learning about Buffy's death.

Ron Fehr

I think Angel just wants the gang to forget about Evil Possessed Cordy, not the Cordy that everyone got to know. That's not something that anyone can be forced to do. We remember people even after they're gone, and nobody can take our memories (at least not in this reality).

Stargazer1682

I mean, Connor, as an adult, had never been completely or actively accepted by AI. He had a brief shot after he came back, where he started bonding with Angel and it might have been fine had Holtz not come back. But then Holtz really fucked things up by no just coming back, but then staging his death to make it look like Angel did it; and having Justine push him towards acting on his impulses towards Angel. From there it's just a shitstorm, where circumstance and Angel's own stubbornness worked towards Connor's disadvantage. Angel comes back from the sea and kicks Connor out. He had the opportunity and even the inclination to let him come back, but he expected Connor to ask to come back. Angel was willing to let him come back to the hotel, but he doesn't TELL him that when he needed to hear it; and Connor thinks Angel hates him and that he's not wanted. It's very reminiscent of Angel/Liam and his own father having it out and Liam leaving home and being told to never come back. After that, it's just been one thing after the next; with Amnesiac Cordy, the Beast, Angelus. Through a lot of that, Connor's felt like he was the subject of AI's scorn; and some of that was real, between Gunn and even Lorne's overt hatred of him. Then things get worse between him and Angel on account of "Cordelia". So it's kind of understandable that this would actually be the first time he has reason to think that someone, Jasmine, honestly loves and accepts him unconditionally.

Chris Carman

Episode 4/20: the Talking Killer--- thinks other characters are "talky!" :D Ya *never know* who you're gonna run into, on the run, in the sewers of Los Angeles... "Maybe you should go to a different dimension or something." :)

zerofk

I love this monster design. It's amazing. And the actor is great. He's played by Jeff Ricketts, who also played Weatherby - one of the Watcher's council "wet works" guys who came after Faith in This Year's Girl/Who Are You and Sanctuary. BTW Jasmine let Fred live before because she didn't know yet what it was that turned people against her, and wanted to use Fred to find out. If she had known, she would've been much more careful with her bloody shirt. She only realised it in The Magic Bullet, after which she immediately said to burn down the store just in case there was a single drop somewhere.

Ron Fehr

The power of words, eh? Jasmine's real name makes her weak. I recall a Doctor Who episode in series 3 of new Who that also spoke about the power of words.

Chris Carman

An odd follow-up: man, I was reading a really excellent post (from somebody--- but I didn't really take enough of a moment to note who) about Connor's mind and how he may well have been asking more questions *inwardly* (while still putting on a psychological front of going along with "love"/lies). But as I was typing up a reply to it--- it seemed to disappear away to 404 Land. *Not* saying anyone should ever feel obligated to repost or re-up, of course, but just for the record, it was a really great comment!👍🏼

Jontor11

Yes, Jasmine is super creepy. You might think that Firefly was a horror show, because Nathan Fillion and Gina Torres are doing such great jobs at creeping us out in the Buffyverse. Amy Acker and Gina Torres would later go on to have recurring roles in Alias, both as badass assassins!

bing.E

I find it interesting that Connor (I know he isn’t a favorable character but he is an interesting one, to me) has been lied to all his life by Holtz, then “Cordy”, now Jasmine and though, Im sure many times he questioned the validity of these people and their lies, it felt better not to so he pushed it away. In order to find any peace in his life he had to pretend he thought he was loved by those who lied to him and used him and because of that I assume that’s why he feels and acts like an outsider when there are people willing to actually love and care for him. We’ll actually thats just me rambling about his psychological patterns which to me is interesting but what’s really interesting is how the show swaps it and puts all of the characters in his shoes when Jasmine puts her … um spell on them? (Ugh magic again! Someone tell Connor!) Then when it is taken away from them, too. They got a small taste of what Connor has felt his whole life. A false hope of something better that makes them act like fools but then even worse when it’s taken away. They all seem to get a taste of Connors perspective through this storyline. After it is taken away Gun is full of anger, Angel is apathetic, Wesley is depressed. Fred had more time to work through it than the others and had to do it alone and in a weird way I think that worked out well for her because now she can appreciate her friends and even her emotions (the little things) more which I think shes been kind of numb to. I think in a weird way it is helping them all… Gunn is filled anger, which I feel he’s been avoiding because he didn’t want to be angry w Fred. Wesley allowing the lonliness than comes from being abandoned which he was probably avoiding because he felt he didn’t deserve it since he betrayed his friends. I think Angels apathy is helping him realize he can’t control everything and sometimes has to let go to see the bigger picture. Of course, they are all taking it to the extremes because shit is crazy right now, this lesson is likely just that a lesson that will help them learn… eventually. Thats the difference between them and Connor, they have a “normal” to go back to because they have all experienced free will, love and trust whereas Connor really hasn’t even if Angel has tried to give him all of those things, it is not something he’s been able to accept yet because he probably thinks losing true love over manipulative love wouldn’t be bearable and even if it were, he probably doesn’t feel like he deserves it. (It reminds me of that quote, ‘we accept the love we think we deserve.’) Anyway, I really do find it interesting that they were able to flip it around like that and give us a glimpse through the main characters we love so we can experience (maybe with more understanding, through this lense) what Connor has been experiencing his whole life. To a little kid, I think, Holtz could have as much power over him as Jasmine does over everyone she infects or a “Cordy” could have over a confused, hormonal lusting teenage boy. He couldn’t help being entranced and becoming a victim any more than they could and they can’t help feeling and acting out in pain, just like him, but luckily they have good experiences to bring them back into balance if they so choose to. They have their free will and can now choose for themselves where they go from here. I don’t know if Connor ever has had any free will though and wonder if he ever will and what it would take for him to get it?? (Sorry this is so long. I tried to post it on here the other day but the format got messed up so I just fixed it quickly now. Hopefully it isn’t all jibberish but it’s something I just noticed consciously and thos is far from my first watch lol and now sorry for making this even longer haha)

Rachelle G

Fair enough! Fair enough enough! I love that demon