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Angel 5x16 - full reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2023-11-29 17:00:08
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

the worst and cruelest fate ever

link: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/20aw5i7y8qi5mfw4hmibb/Angel-516.mkv?rlkey=7pkzqr49crjwacecf2d3yvlyv&dl=0

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Comments

HeiKira

On the upside, we have Illyria now. Them blues

HootieDean

The moment I've been waiting for: Illyria has arrived! Anything more could possibly spoil, so, I'll just say "Oh, boy!"

Jontor11

Agree Lexi, this is devastating. But I also have to praise Amy Acker, she is killing it! (no pun intended). Her mannerisms, her voice, everything about her is different. Top notch acting. It was during production of this episode they got cancelled, and I feel this episode is a bit fragmented. I suspect they reworked it a lot. I can totally see a storyline where this season would be about stopping Ilyria raising her army. But I guess that went out the window...

Chess Red Eagle

Amy Acker absolutely crushed this episode but this also my favorite Wesley episode as well. Alexis Denisof was marvelous in this episode as well and should be just as praised.

Judson

While both the characters of Cordelia and Fred had their bodies taken over and killed off, it's kinda disturbing that Joss Whedon did it for opposite reasons. Cordy's fate was out of spite and retaliation for Charisma Carpenter's pregnancy whereas Fred's fate was almost an affectionate gift to 'Joss' inner circle' member Amy Acker so she could get a meatier role and flex her acting chops. Alexis and especially Amy nailed their roles this episode too! Completely agree about Gunn. Him signing a shipping form is no doubt something all the central heroes do daily (how many times have we seen someone run up to Angel with forms to sign and he does it without really looking) and is way less complicit than all of their deliberate and calculated decision to work for a known evil entity. Gunn was just the one who got unlucky that his action, out of the dozens of Wolfram and Hart endorsed agendas they all endorse daily, turned out to be the one which affected someone close to the gang.

Stargazer1682

So, a thing neither show really outright addresses, but does get touched on again here is, the soul is NOT the person's memories or identity. This is sort of an important, speculatively, in Illyria mentioning having any access to Fred's memories. But it's established in a lot of different ways throughout the narrative. "I've Got You Under My Skin" is a huge indicator of all this, because you have that kid, Ryan, who was possessed by an Ethros; and it turns out, the Ethros was trapped in Ryan, because Ryan didn't have a soul. He was a living, human boy; completely with personality and consciousness - but he had no soul. And by virtue of not having a soul, the kid was fucking evil. So evil, it made the Ethros welcome death, rather than be trapped inside this soulless, yet living human boy. And I fucking love the implications of that; because that makes humans potentially the monsters that monsters fear. And what did the Old Ones do when humans arrived on Earth? They ran away! But the fact that a person's consciousness can be transferred into other bodies in the Buffyverse - with Faith and Buffy, and Angel and Marcus (the old guy who was hijacking younger bodies) - means there's a mystical element to human consciousness in the Buffyverse. And *that* is what goes to heaven dimensions, like Buffy's did. BUT, if you're a vampire, it stays! Just look at Harmony. There's just no question there that Harmony is Harmony; there's no "other" there, there's no demon possession; she was physically altered, but it's still her. Harmony's consciousness is at the helm; she just has no soul to guide her morality, but she didn't exactly exude a lot of that to begin with, so either. But it's her.

HeiKira

In all seriousness, Illyria is an ancient demon that could destroy the world. She didn't pick Fred as a "shell", but inherited some of her memories. Illyria is lost after realizing her reign is long over. She's one of the best characters. Also best girl

Ariel17

Fred’s death here and the title of this episode (Shells) was foreshadowed in season 4. In the episode 4x20 (Sacrifice) Fred and Gunn are talking about how Angel has cut himself off from his emotions while on the run from Jasmine: Gunn: “You heard Angel. Feelings don’t enter it anymore.” Fred: “That the world we’re fighting for? The right to be heartless, an uncaring shell, to be dead inside? Then they talk about their shared guilt over killing the professor and then Fred disagrees with Angel’s approach by saying she allows herself to feel those emotions, even negative ones like guilt, when she tells Gunn: “well I don’t know about you, but…I’d take that over being a shell any day.” Another moment of foreshadowing came in 5x10 (Soul Purpose), when Angel hallucinates about Fred dissecting him and in the end she tells him: "I can't seem to find anything wrong with you. I mean...except that you're empty. There's nothing left. Just a shell."

Britney

I love Illyria. I think she's such an interesting character. Of course it's bittersweet because Fred is gone though. I love that they still had Amy Acker portraying her. It's pretty cool to see her playing these two very different characters on the same show.

Ron Fehr

As long as there are memories, inside Illyria or those of her friends, Fred will never be completely gone. That's what counts.

Ron Fehr

It's very fitting that you finished by giving praise to Amy Acker. She was the reason that I continued to watch the show. I assume that your friend Domi told you about her meeting Amy in person.

Juanjo

Ugh. I feel you :( I knew this day was coming for you but we couldn’t do anything but wait 😫 one thing I read once though, back in those days, was that Joss was planning to bring back Fred in the future but the show got cancelled. I believe in the comics she was brought back, but it’s still not the official story so.. yeah, well, it’s messed up, I still haven’t forgive him for this haha

Phoenix Dawn

I know it sucks Fred's gone. But I love Illyria a bit too much (and a lot of that is still to come in writing, but mostly because it is Amy Acker is soo good in the role), I wouldn't have liked to missed out on a character like that. I think I am a bit like Whedon (or Knox) when it comes to ancient, god like mystical beings lol.

Jesse baldo

I'M SO GLAD you picked up on the TRAGEDY that is a soul loss, That means no afterlife, and just like real life and faith in the world, in angel there is an afterlife so that is obliteration! Most people never seem to pick up on this! Which makes sense, it's usually people who were raised in faith based homes that truly feel the loss or understand it, I will never SPOIL ANYTHING for the show so my comments are safe to read, If you want to know the COMIC that will NOT RUIN any part of this show for you, continue reading, I have not read the part , but it is canon, The writers must have realized the tragedy, and in the comic book they briefly mention that somehow Freds soul is RESTORED!! So don't cry! Also if you mention my comment in a reaction i'd be so happy haha, Disclaimer, I don't know exactly how they do this in the comic and have only heard it from people who read the comic and a screenshot on reddit I believe. It will NOT ruin the show knowing this so don't worry ,if a mod is reading this, ITS SAFE!

Cory James

I read this story once where Harmony accidentally triggered the sarcophagus before Fred did and Illyria took over her body instead. So seeing that scene in the lab where Wesley is examining the sarcophagus and Harmony wants to wear a hazmat suit reminds me of that every single time LOL Amy Acker is a phenomenal actress. The complete different feel of Fred and Illyria is perfect, she feels like a completely new person and not just the character pretending to be a different person. I love Illyria and I probably wouldn't have if it hadn't been for Amy Acker's acting of her...well...it. God King. Wesley stabbing Gunn is both in character and not. Did this Wesley get abandoned by his friends? He didn't kidnap Connor cause Connor didn't exist anymore. I guess reactions to grief are never really in character anyway. I can't believe I finally caught up! I started watching your Buffy/Angel reactions a couple months ago and I was hoping to catch up before you reached the end of Angel and I did it! I made it for the final stretch. So excited!