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Angel 5x22 - full reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2024-01-10 17:00:12
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Welcome to the end of the Buffyverse! A true end of an era. This has been an amazing journey and i appreciate each and every one of you who came on this adventure with me! You guys truly changed my life and for that I'll always be grateful! To the people who were only here for the Buffyverse thank you and goodnight folks!

The plans for the coming weeks are as follows. Next Wednesday I'm going to be reacting to the angel dvd extras for s2&3. Then the Wednesday after that s4&5. Then we will be starting with Game of Thrones. I just wanna take the smallest of breaks before jumping into a new show, so GOT is officially starting on Jan 31st. Hope to see you there!

link: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/sg2ggmxjmi74kxzbiw4bp/Angel-522.mkv?rlkey=ewbqtummcj6pdhk19ei4lslza&dl=0

Files

Comments

Stargazer1682

Ah, now you know why we're all broken.... 😒

Ron Fehr

The way I see it, Angel signing the Shanshu prophecy doesn't mean that Spike won't become human. Since the prophecy doesn't specify Angel by name, it's completely possible that he was not the vampire to which it was referring.

Deandre r Swift

Ok so I'm gonna agree with one thing you said and disagree with the rest. I agree bringing characters back from the dead sucks and I don't like it. But I disagree that Spike's resurrection was any worse than Buffy's who was brought back to life twice. Also, season 5 of Angel Spike is THE best version of Spike and it's not even close. His story this season (which he 100% did have) was about him finding his place as a vampire with soul and a champion. As someone who does the right thing not because of a girl that he likes but because it's what he believes in. A "happy" ending was never in cards for Angel because let's say it all together. Angel isn't Buffy. From the very first episode where fails to save the girl to Gunn talking about how the world is will always be against them and Anna tell him to keep trying regardless. It was always about fighting a losing battle and continuing to fight regardless. That's what redemption is an unending and unwinnable fight. That is Angel.

Stargazer1682

This episode is, in my opinion, the best series finale of all time. It is perfectly paced and constructed and there's nothing I would actually change about it.

HeiKira

Spike will always be my favorite character, but Wesley is the best character. Also, the short time we get with Ilyria is fantastic. Best girl

Gaius Frakking Baltar

When I first watched the finale, I had the same question as Lexi: what was the point of fighting W&H if they were all just going to die at the end? After much examination, I think the answer lies within the overarching theme of Angel (if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do). Angel's final line, “Let’s go to work”, is the ultimate culmination of this theme - it's about fighting the good fight, regardless of the cost. I also found a 2003 quote from Whedon to be illuminating: "The thing about a hero, is even when it doesn't look like there's a light at the end of the tunnel, he's going to keep digging, he's going to keep trying to do right and make up for what's gone before, just because that's who he is."

HeiKira

I definitely preferred this ending to Buffy's deus ex Slayer ending.

Free Your Geek

Spot on with Lorne following Angel’s plan. It broke my heart! Lorne telling Angel he’d do this last job and then he was out… 😢 Lindsey was chaotic and although he was team Angel for this moment, it could change in an instant. He did have somewhat of a redemption arc when he left in season 2, but still came back to cause more pain and headaches for Angel. He explained in an earlier episode he did all this to join the Circle. As far as Wesley….He was my favorite character in the entire Buffy-verse. I absolutely loved his character arc. And I think he knew Illyria/Fred was lying about them being together in the afterlife, but because he was dying, chose to believe that lie.

Stargazer1682

I mean, to start with, how much 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘶𝘢𝘭 functional purpose did Spike serve on Buffy, especially the first two seasons as a series regular? I’m talk post season 2 big bad; when he comes on in season 4 and through season 5. He’s there, he’s interacting with the characters. He’s the proverbial “fool” of the piece; outlandish, sometimes comical, but often insightful and quite correct about things. But when you say you can’t have a character come in and not go somewhere with the character for a full season; I’m not quite sure what he did as a series regular on Buffy that he didn’t do as a regular on Angel. One of my biggest gripes about Spike on Buffy is that, while in season 4 it at least makes sense why the Scoobies don’t stake him, by season 5 any of the Scoobies, including Buffy, should have killed him many times for a wide variety of reasons and the show strains credulity that they don’t. Buffy 100% should have killed him for the Buffy bot, once she knew what he did or didn’t tell Glory; and that’s just for starters. One can say he offered the benefit of his strength as a fighter; which is true, until the moment came for him to be of use in the fight and he gets manhandled by Joel Grey. Like, in season 6 of Buffy, his biggest if not sole contribution to the story was as Buffy’s foil in her depression spiral; he had no personal arc until he attacked Buffy and decided to win himself a soul at the very end of the season. But even in season 7, he still has no real arc of his own. Like you said, going into the final battle his heroic sacrifice wasn’t even an informed decision. I feel like the climax of his story on Buffy landed differently for me, and I imagine for a lot of others who watched the series when it originally aired; because the news broke long before series finale of Buffy that Spike was going to Angel. We knew it wasn’t going to keep. I’m even skeptical that it should be qualified as him “dying”; especially knowing how things played out and Lindsey’s involvement. I think more likely Lindsey got Lilah to pass along this trinket he found that would A ) burn down a hellmouth, and B ) trap the wearer inside itself; and that when released, said wearer would be intangible, yet not a ghost. But, Lindsey being the person orchestrating this would also have the means of countering this effect simply, with what amounted to a flash in a box. I also wouldn’t give up having him in Angel season 5 for anything. I think Spike slotted into AtS with perfect ease; and I like him more on Angel than I did on Buffy. On Angel, he’s part of the ensemble and not solely defined by his infatuation with Buffy. AtS was never really about the serial arc (Jasmine being the outlier). There were long arcs, but not season long big bads. The long running threads of the series were the relationships of the characters and how they dealt with the conflicts they encountered; and Spike got that treatment, and was poised to explore that more had the series not been cancelled. We don’t ever know what the last 1/3 of this season would have even looked like if that hadn’t happened; it totally skewed the direction. On Buffy, all of Spike’s stories revolved around Buffy. In contrast to that, I enjoyed how close he became with Fred. I think the Angel/Spike dynamic is the absolute best. The way they can antagonize each other, hate each other, but ultimately on some level they respect and trust each other, even if they won’t admit it. They’re the ultimate frenemies. Like, you could easily imagine a scenario where it’s literally just Angel and Spike left on the planet; and it would feel like the most natural thing for the world to end with these two idiots bickering as the sun explodes.

RochelleMo

I watched this when it aired 20(!) years ago and had a complete meltdown in my dorm elevator immediately afterwards. The Buffyverse had been such a huge part of my teenage years, and to see it end like that was devastating. And reliving it with you today, the day after Our Flag Means Death got canceled, is almost too much! 😭 Thank you for reacting to it, though. It's still mostly been a joy ❤️

Freefall

Lorne said he has heard Lindsey sing before. So does that mean he already knew his fate all along? I wish they kind of explored Lornes doubts on angel a lot more. It seemed a little sudden for him to question that when in the past he seemed a lot more loyal. Also i kind of agree on how they handled spike. The first half of the season they did spend some time on him and a big part was to make angel doubt himself. But that storyline fizzled out and he became more of a comedic role. IMO it took a lot of time away from the main characters that were there before like Wesley, Lorne,Gunn. Also wish they integrated him more within the team. He spent most of his scenes with angel.

Stargazer1682

Like I said, i think this episode is the best, because no matter how many times I watch it, all of the impactful moments still resonates with me. Hearing Lorne sing one more time - just, God damn... I could listen to Andy Hallett sing all day long. His death at such a young age is a tragedy in its own right, and that there are only two full length professional recordings of his music compounds it. The "Would you like me to lie to you now?" Illyria going from Fred back to Illyria during the punch. Connor showing up to help Angel. "Can you pick out the one word there you probably shouldn't have said ?" Epic. The episode pulls no punches. Like, there's a lot of reasons I don't think the Buffy finale holds up; there were no clear stakes - there was no real objective for the First or consequently a solution. Buffy's plan wasn't even really much of a plan and it's not even what saved the day. There were too many people involved that were didn't actually know or care about; most of whom were the ones who died. The one meaningful death was so blink and you'll miss it, I literally did keep missing it happening each time I watched it for the longest time. Angel's finale made it clear just going into the finale that they were going into this fight and not coming out of it; and they followed through. And it that encapsulated the premise of the series so well. "The good fight, yeah?" It's what still gives me chills about the very end, because it begs the question, what happens next? And we don't want to believe it's just an ignominious end for each of them, that they'll somehow find a way to survive at the last minute - but that's arguably on par with people coming back from the dead, right? Some plot convenience that undermines or overrides what should be the natural conclusion. I've entertained a wide variety of those ideas - like, during the heat of battle, Riley and Kate repel down from a helicopter and rescue the four of them. Because the only thing that would piss off Spike and Angel about being rescued from certain death, would be if they were rescued by Riley. 🤣 But like, it would cheapen the ending, wouldn't it? After wondering about this for literally almost 2 decades (I just noticed this aired in May of 2004), one "conclusion" came to me a couple of years ago in an actual, literal dream - the team was fighting in the alley, but the alley turned into a cavern somewhere. One by one they fell, Gunn, Spike, Angel. Illyria was the last one fighting, but she was flagging, getting weak. She made for a strategic retreat, but on her way out she made a point of grabbing some of Angel and Spike's dust, before diving out an opening in the cave, rolling down a steep snow covered embarkment that led out to a frozen wasteland. Illyria trudged through the snow and ice, the cold sapping what was left of her strength, until she was frozen in a block of ice. And in that sense of "knowing" you get in a dream, Illyria was still alive in the ice, planning for the day she would escape; and when she did, she would find a way to bring the others back.

Stargazer1682

One last headcanon/fan theory, especially now that you're at the end: Andrew would eventually leave Buffy/the Scoobies and move to LA, where he would try to sell his "Buffy: The Slayer of the Vampyrs" story to Hollywood. He'd pay his proverbial dues as a writer for various shows, the odd sitcom or movie, he'd become a script doctor, helping to punch up script drafts. The Buffy story would eventually get picked up and made into a movie, but Andrew had very little input on the execution of the script in the making of the movie; butting heads with one of the leads about the direction of the story or their character and how campy it should be. The movie bombed, but a couple of years later he was approached to develop the idea as a TV series. He jumped at the idea and adapted many of the accounts he heard about from the Scoobies as plots for the series. When he got to the part about the Trio, he of course changed some of the names; especially the character based on him, he probably named something like Joseph. Eventually the network wanted to spin-off Angel to his own series, though he didn't have enough personal knowledge to develop it. As it should happen, Lorne would sign on as a co-creator, under the clever pseudonym David 𝘎𝘳𝘦𝘦𝘯walt; helping Andrew, now going by Drew, fill in the blanks. 😉

zerofk

They didn't kill Lorne, but his ending is heartbreaking nonetheless. I love that whole scene, because it's so unexpected: Lorne, the gentle, upbeat one, killing Lindsey. He looks so deflated when he walks away. Eve's simple "Go where?" is also very sad. And now, at the last episode, I can finally gush about my favourite character arc in the whole Buffyverse: Anne. The first time we saw her, she was in a "loser vampire cult". Before that, she was Sister Sunshine in another cult. Later she lived on the street with Ricky. And judging by the look on her face when Buffy asked her real name, her home life was worst of all. But now? Now she's running a shelter. She told Buffy she was "not good at taking care of herself", but now she's taking care of others. And more than that, she effortlessly answers one of the big questions of the show. A question both Buffy and Angel struggled with: Buffy in 7x04 Help, and Angel in 2x16 Epiphany. "What do you do if you know that sometimes, you can't help?" Buffy answers by turning up for work the next day, trying to help anyway. Angel says "If nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do." Anne takes a second to think and says "I'd get this truck packed before the new stuff gets here." She doesn't have Buffy's or Angel's strength, but IMO she's the strongest character in the show. And knowing what she comes from makes me adore her all the more. Wesley's arc is nice, but it's nothing compared to this young woman we see only in a few episodes. I warned you I was going to gush.

zerofk

I agree about Spike - in fact I think he shouldn't have survived season 2 of Buffy. Don't get me wrong, I like his character in later seasons too. I just think that his arc weakens the season 2 Spike in retrospect. Back then, he was a scary big bad. Later, he became comic relief. Not all the time, but a lot.

Aaron Nasser

Thank you for everything!!!!! You’ve really made me smile since the pandemic!!!

Stargazer1682

I think one of the most profound parts of this episode is how much we can be affected by Wesley's death. Would you ever have imagined back in Buffy season 3, that this character death would hit the way it does? It is such a testament to the writers and the development of his character; and I think he has one of if not the best character arc of all time. Certainly within the Buffyverse. To start off as this uptight irritant, loser character who's just basically in the way. To then becoming an ally to Angel, albeit clumsy; he's well meaning and knowledgeable. And they just keep peeling back layers. He's a crack shot, whether it's at darts or cross bow; he's literally the only protagonist in the Buffyverse allowed to competently use a gun. Not only that, he uses it to take down Skip. And that moment where he doesn't even flinch to shoot who he believes is his own father when he's threatening Fred... He's a man of conviction, and proven detached tactical strategy which made him a leader on par with Angel. And now we can finally point out a fact that didn't fully register for me for literally years - save for a dream Angel has, Wesley never wears his glasses again after his Justine attacked him. And the part with Wesley and Fred at the end; Illyria/Fred staying they'll be together is probably part of her lying to him. But, there's strong implications running through the back half of the season and especially in this episode that Fred has greater influence on Illyria than I think the character actually realized - which I think was intentional. I think the idea that her soul was completely gone may have been an overstatement; and just the fact Illyria effectively possesses Fred's consciousness within her and can tap into that - I keep saying that both shows demonstrate if not outright acknowledge that there's a difference between the soul and the consciousness; and Illyria embodies this completely. And there's an insidiousness about the fact that Fred's consciousness - a human consciousness - living inside an Old One, would cause them to grieve the death of another human this way. It really inspires the imagination to think of the implications that the Old Ones fled Earth because they feared humanity and all its nuances and resilience.

Chris Carman

On that ending: while there may not be a lot of comic-book diehards here, I was gonna recommend "Angel: After the Fall" (which I personally think is pretty excellent work, actually better than the post-series "Buffy" books) as, of course, the characters *live on* (including ones you really don't expect to! :D), but after hearing the final verdict on resurrection plots, hey, maybe not! :D (One can certainly check out the ever-valuable Buffyverse Wiki...) A small scene that's often overlooked (but, of course, that wasn't the case here): the Anne scene. Sometimes, when things get really rough and the journey gets good and rocky--- I think about that one little scene: "I'd get this truck packed before the new stuff gets here." Just right--- they *could've* ended the series right there. (Don't even get me started--- on Lindsey and Lorne... :D) Anyways, thank you for all this. [It's safe to say--- the crowd is here for more. :)]

SM

You still have the buffy movie

Adam Session

One fun thing about the ending: the Shanshu prophecy always had a picture of a dragon randomly in the edges since season 1. They included the dragon here for that reason.

Stargazer1682

The thing about the Shanshu is, my personal headcanon is that it's no longer in play; and hasn't been since the middle of season 1. It came true. Angel became human, the Oracles said this transformation wasn't a fluke and was "meant to be". He undid it. No one ever wonders when they read a prophecy if it's already come to past, they always assume it's some point in the future, but it happened. The stuff with Spike and the question of whether it applied to Spike or Angel - that was all Lindsey. Eve even says in that episode how exhausting it is throwing the universe out of whack. They worked just enough mojo to make it look like the universe was going haywire the moment Spike was re-corporealized; which wouldn't be hard to coordinate, especially if they set everything in motion to start by providing the pendant and knowing what it would do and how to fix it. It's just enough chaos to plant a seed of doubt in the senior partners whether or not they backed the wrong ensouled vampire. But the thing about prophecies is, whichever one it was talking about, was always who it was talking about. The Wesley-substitute in the episode with the supposed "cup of perpetual torment" even said that "whoever drinks from the cup was always meant to drink from the cup" - that might have been bullshit, but that's the nature of pre-destination, it doesn't matter if some other schmuck qualifies for the description in the prophecy; if it's not them it was never them. But it's also the great thing, in my opinion, about "I Will Remember You," which is, if becoming human in that episode was Angel's destiny and he undid it; the whole episode becomes a question of fate versus free will, and Angel chose free will. That decision had a huge knock-on effect for everything else that happened afterwards, that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Angel would have gone back to Sunnydale with Buffy, Doyle might not have died a few days later. Angel might have ever met Gunn or teamed up with Wesley. They may never have gone to Pylea and rescued Fred. But that was all because Angel refuted his fate.

Dianne Deramon

A good thing to react to is Much ado about Nothing with Amy Acker and Alexis Denisof

Captain Hammer

I don't have any problem with the final battle being against the Circle. The entire series has been themed around: the fight against evil and for redemption never ends. The Angel crew could never defeat the senior partners but they decide to fight as hard as they can to weaken their influence on Earth. If the Angel crew is killed it still isn't in vain. By the looks of it the Senior Partners decided to kick off their apocalypse early to take out Angel. That probably means they did it before they were fully ready so there's a much better chance that even if Angel is killed the apocalypse will fail. I had mixed feelings after first viewing but now I really think it's the perfect ending.

Britney

I agree with you about the ending, Lexi. I also prefer happier endings and very much preferred Buffy's ending. Regardless, I still think the episode as a whole was really good. Illyria's "Would you like me to lie to you now?" line really gets to me every time. I do disagree with you about Spike though. He made this season so entertaining for me, and he's one of the reasons why season 5 is my favorite season of Angel. I do agree that he could have been given more to do besides mostly bantering with Angel, but I still greatly enjoyed him on the show. One last thing... I just want to say how much joy your reactions have brought me. I always had something to look forward to. It was especially delightful if it was one of your upload days and I had a terrible day at work. I knew as soon as I got home that I could play your video and immediately be cheered up. I've watched many reactors, but you have always been my favorite. I only subscribed for your Buffy/Angel reactions, but I ended up watching other things with you as well like Wednesday, Ted Lasso, Interview with the Vampire, and now LOST. Unfortunately, I will have to unsubscribe after this month is over. I've recently developed some health issues, so I have a bunch of medical bills to pay. That means I have to budget and cut out some of my monthly spending. I may subscribe again at some point depending on what you are reacting to. I'm still going to continue LOST, which I started once you announced that you were going to react to it. I'll just have to catch the edited versions on Youtube for the time being.

Andy

What a brilliant show. How is David Boreanaz not more famous? He's been the main character in 3 long running hit TV shows back to back to back. Angel, Bones, and Seal Team. I think the theme of Angel is enduring pain. Angel is the most tortured soul. His entire life starting as a human he was a drunk who hated his father, gets turned into a sadistic killing machine, gets his soul back and is incapacitated with guilt, falls in love, loses his soul and becomes evil again, moves to LA and then everyone around him dies. Doyle, Cordelia, Wesley, Gunn, Fred. But he keeps on going and doesn't feel sorry for himself for too long. I think it’s something we can take into our own life, not to feel sorry for ourselves for too long and just keep going.

Ron Fehr

I had a thought while watching. Anne used to go by the name Chanterelle, in the Buffy episode Lie to Me, and she was almost one of Spike's victims. I wonder how she would react to finding out that Gunn knew him.

Ron Fehr

I didn't like the ending either, but I guess the whole point of it was to show the evil powers that they do not have total control. They will always be fought.

Shaun Houghton

No more low rats. That's it, you're done.

Robin Davies

Thanks for all the reactions! It’s been great fun. (I guess I’m never going to persuade anyone to react to Buffy Meets Blackwood.) As for the Buffy movie – jeez, if you thought the pilot was bad…!!! :)

Jesse baldo

OK So the creator said anything can happen after that end scene, its up to the audience to decide they lived or died, Now Freds soul in the comics does come back some how, I don't remember how but fred and aleria share a body, Also the comics Are canon and they continue after this and angel and gang fight from this point keep going into seasons after seasons, They barely ended the comic i think not that long ago, All this to say DON'T BE SAD, it wasn't a hopeless ending, More things happened just not in Show format!

Cheyenne

oh I LOVE this finale so much, every time I rewatch it I remember how much I love it. It's the perfect ending for the show, even if we would be happier if we knew our heroes were all right. It's like Lindsay and Angel's conversation earlier in the episode: "you care about being squashed like a bug?" "you haven't heard a word I've said." And "maybe they aren't there to be beat, maybe they're there to be fought." In my opinion this is one of the best finales I've ever seen in terms of living up to the message of the show. And Lorne breaks my heart every time! He still cares about his friends, but they've moved so far away from what he's comfortable with and the life he chose that he can't stay with them any longer. And Illyria starting to care about Wesley! And Gunn helping out Anne, and Spike reciting his poetry, and Connor knowing the truth and still accepting Angel. Even if I wish that the Circle had been better developed as villains, I think the way this episode concludes our main characters is so very satisfying, and it's so good. That final scene has lived rent-free in my head for YEARS. I think Buffy is the better show, but this is the better finale by far

Ian Ramsey

I know you were disappointed by Angel and Cordy's last kiss being used as a plot device instead of just a romantic gesture. But the same thing happened between Cordy and Doyle, right? Something to be said for continuity. Besides, I prefer to think of it as the PTB (aka, the writers) using the emotional moment(s) to work their will, rather than some conscious act emanating from the characters. " You must remember this - A kiss is still a kiss..."

Social Kid

If you read the graphic novel AFTER THE FALL, you will learn about what happens to these characters. Wesley is a ghost, like how Lilah was, and Angel does become human. LA is a demon play ground. I recommend reading After The Fall.

Phoenix Dawn

I think Spike being on the show was a good contrast to Angel as a vampire with a soul kind of thing. Plus Spike was too popular to let go ahaha

Jontor11

First of all Lexi, THANK YOU for these wounderful Buffyverse reactions. It has been a true honour to follow you. You are simply the best. And I appreciate every single episode you have done. What a great finale this was. I know some people don't really like it, but I think it's perfect. When you think about it...how can it all end in any other way? Now, after episode 12 I promised you a rant...and here we go! I followed these shows in my youth when they aired. I was obsessed! We didn't have social media the way we have today, but we had discussion forums and message boards, and I followed every single one of them. The discussions were intense and if anyone did an interview or was on a late night show on TV, you would know about it. And it's here I want to talk a little about Charisma. Just to put in a perspective we all had back in the day. We obviously didn't know that Joss was a d*ck. Charisma didn't make it easy for herself. Whenever she appeared in a late night show or did an interview, the fans quickly realized that she behaved exactly like Cordelia did. And I am talking about Buffy S1 Cordelia. She behaved like she was THE star of both shows. Even to this day she proudly says in interviews that she hasn't seen Buffy S4 and later because she wasn't in it. And she didn't see anything of Angel S5 except for that one episode. So the fans were kind of divided at the time. I would say that half of the fans didn't care much about Cordelia because of Charisma's behaviour, the other half loved her anyway. Her storyarc in Angel S4 was much debated. The Cordelia lovers thought that they were killing her character with bad writing, the other half didn't care. So in the end, no one was surprised that Charisma wasn't a series regular in Angel season 5. So that thing wasn't even an issue at the time. All we got in Angel season 5, was reports about Vincent Kartheiser (Connor) saying in interviews that he loved coming back for season 5, and that the atmosphere was so much better than in season 4 (when it obviously sucked). A lot of people obviously thought that is was because Charisma was hard to work with. It's obvious that Joss is a d*ck, we all know that, but it is interesting to think about it how it was at the time. Joss was very busy during late Angel S3 and beginning of Angel S4 with Firefly, so he wasn't as much involved in Angel as he would have liked to be. So I am thinking, it can't be all Joss, it must have been the whole team behind the scenes that were giant D*CKS. Also, another thing that has been on my mind is Eliza Dushku. She was signed to Fox with a lucrative contract in 2008 (or it might have been earlier). The network wanted to do something with her and she could decide herself who she wanted to work with. She immediately calls up Joss, he was reluctant, but she managed to convince him to do Dollhouse. Now, why would Eliza do that if she knew he was horrible to work with? Eliza herself seems to be a tough girl that no one pushes around, and unfortunately she got her career ruined later in another show (Bull) when she spoke out about abuse....and the network just payed her off. All I am saying is, I think there is more to the story than we know. Joss has never publicly said anything (to my knowledge), but I know what people were thinking/feeling back then. It was very different. But then again, we didn't know...did we. End of rant.

Megan

So, I finally finished watching your Angel reactions. I don't rewatch the last 2 seasons of Angel as much as the rest of the Buffyverse, just not as fun. My favorite parts of the season are by far the episodes with Cordelia and Connor in them. Ha, funny after how gross they were last season, right? Anyway, for me, I find it interesting how at the end of Buffy, the two characters that don't make it through the final battle are the ones who "deserve" it, on a cosmic level, because they've done so much evil. (Spike and Anya). Buffy is about making it out of adolescence into adulthood, and all of our human main characters made it, even the ones who made big mistakes like Willow and Faith (and even Andrew). Then, Angel is the reverse. Lindsey, Wes, Gun (according to me, it is heavily implied that Gun will not make it, though I hear he does in the comics, but I don't consider those canon, so I think he's dead, Illyria said 10 minutes till he bleeds out), and ofc Cordy and Fred, don't make it. But all of our demon main characters live. I think Angel is about fighting for what's right even if you can never win. In this case, no matter how hard you fight, mortality waits for you in the end. The demons/gods survive, but humans can't ever defeat their destiny. Fight until you die. I don't like the ending of Angel, because like you I prefer a happy ending, but ofc it was already too late to have a truly happy ending, with Cordy and Fred gone. So, knowing the girls didn't make it, I'm kind of ok with the end, like, none of these brave humans are meant to die warm in their beds surrounded by fat grandchildren, as Jenny would say. They chose to give their lives to the fight. At least Connor is ok. But yes, in an ideal world, I would have liked Angel to get his Shanshu and go see if Buffy is cookies yet. 😁 Perhaps they could make it work with him human now that there are so many slayers, he wouldn't feel like he was distracting the one and only protector of the world from her mission. And I would like everyone alive, and also them never even teasing an Angel/Cordy thing because it messes with my Buffy/Angel thing. But Cordy alive! And Fred! And no Cordy Connor sex, ew.

Wisdom of the Sphynx

Thank you for all your reactions throughout the Buffy/Angel-verse. 🫶🏼💛. To shamelessly steal a quote from another universe “A good death, is its own reward” and while we can and should grieve the loss of our favorite characters, falling while fighting “the good fight yeah” (Doyle, Cordie, Fred, Wes) is better than just fading away 💛.

Ahmad

Out of all the comics for both Buffy and Angel, I reccomend you read Angel After the Fall - it wraps up all the character arcs perfectly even Cordelia's. None of the other Buffyverse comics are worth the time imo, but After the Fall satisfied me after this cliffhanger. It was a perfect goodbye for all the characters.