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Depp v Heard Verdict-Lauren and John's real time reaction (Patreon)

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2022-06-01 19:58:55
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TRIGGER WARNING: If you're emotionally invested in this case and verdict, proceed with caution and perhaps wait before listening. Many of us find ourselves emotionally invested in this case, and we want this to be a safe space for everyone.

.... This is as raw as you get on Patreon. We just watched the Depp v Heard verdict come down. I flipped on my phone's not-so-great voice recorder while we sat on the couch and I shared my initial thoughts, and then I asked John to share his.

Later today we will be sharing an episode about parents who believe their children are possessed and/or are zombies.  Dr. John will share why this happens, and why it seems to be happening more and more. ... I'm working on a few edits now.

Comments

Hidden True Crime

A favor from our listeners: John just suggested I wait to post this. He believes it's too polarizing and emotional at this time for many. ... I am the impulsive one in the relationship, and chose to move forward and post. ... If you disagree, if you are triggered, if you have differing thoughts: Please stick with us. We want this place to be a safe spot for everyone to share their differing opinions and beliefs. This case is a moment in time, but it is important, and important enough that we felt we needed to comment. Later today we will be sharing an episode about parents who believe their children are possessed and/or are zombies. Dr. John will share why this happens, and why it seems to be happening more and more.

lizzy s

I see how this is triggering to you because of your past. But I don't understand what you wanted to have happened. Did you want Johnny to lose just for the sake of possible future victims? Because that isn't fair for Johnny. And how can Jon think that without any doubt?? Im stunned.

lizzy s

And I thought evidence was always needed to prove a crime? Shouldn't it be? I'm really just completely shocked by what you are saying. It's like we watched two different cases. And I have always agreed with your takes on things in the past and really value your expert opinions. So I'm just floored.

Becca Moorhead

I watched gavel to gavel. And I believe Johnny. When I was shamed by the cops because I was drunk with my sexual assault. So yes I found it repulsive people say Johnny is guilty because he is an addict. No I found a lot of Johnny's actions bad As well. I just don't understand why Johnny's reaction be reactionaries. He had a right to tell his story.

lizzy s

A verdict not tied to any evidence?? I just don't know, I'm really confused. But I still love you two and your channel.

Kelley Gee

I think the verdict would have certainly been different if it had been Depp v. Washington Post. And I’ve already ranted about how I feel about the way the journalists attacked so one-sidedly so I won’t say more. But suffice it to say, I wholeheartedly agree with you!

Isabel G.

Thank you, thank you - please do another video on your public platform. We should study him and his behaviour in order to identify and understand perpetrators. JD's behaviour is out there now, forever. He might have won a little bit of money, but being a poster boy for DV shall be his legacy. He can be studied, in detail, because there is so much that he has put out there himself. He can never undo that, and living with that is what he deserves.

Cindy

Let's face it. Johnny's outward appearance is affable, friendly, and laid back. And he's extremely popular. Amber is smart, beautiful and cunning and not America's poster girl. No doubt they both triggered each other. But he has resources and ample guidance - this was about gaining his credibility back, not the law which confuses the general public. And you are right on that this sets precedence. Something that becomes a major roadmap for possible and charged perps to sue their victims into silence. In Japan, victims can't say anything bad about a giant company or a domestic partner that abused them. So with the best intentions of Johnny and his people and Heard and her people, their circus undermines centuries of progress. Peace out!

Toni Quilico-Kriebel

Oh Lauren I watched every minute of this trial and there was overwhelming evidence that Amber was lying! I think you are clouding your experiences, I’m so sorry you suffered, with Amber’s. I agree he did verbally abuse her BUT the defamation was the sexual abuse in the title. There is not one iota of evidence that he did that and she only claimed the bottle during the trial AFTER she saw a picture of one. The abuse she said she suffered was so over the top that it would have landed her in the ER. The jury got it right and I think if you would watched all of it including the doctored pics, pics of her the next day with no bruises, dancing in rehearsal after saying she walked on broken glass and so much more you wouldn’t be so quick to agree with her. I started watching the trial believing her but after about a week or so I had to believe she is a big liar.

Kate FitzGerald

I read your book, Lauren, and appreciated your honesty and courage in describing such a harrowing journey. Although domestic violence is not a part of my adult life, as a child, I experienced it in my home. In that situation, like the Heard-Depp case, addiction and mental illness ruled. I didn’t watch the trial gavel to gavel but watched enough to feel sorry for both actors. Nobody really wins here, despite the jury’s verdict. Both are still saddled with their addictions and spectacularly bad taste in partners. I surely hope that this verdict doesn’t muzzle victims of domestic violence from now on. But, like you, Lauren, see it as real possibility.

Toni Quilico-Kriebel
>>85008013

Right! It’s not about all victims this was about Amber, a liar, and the jury did not have to come back with a verdict for the true victims.

Stephanie Stewart

Lauren, I thought the jury got it right. They are both "pieces of work ", and there is no disputing that. However, because we disagree over the verdict doesn't mean I am going to unsubscribe from YT or leave patreon...that's not why we listen to you and John. Unfortunately, in these times you can't voice your opinion on politics/religion or anything else without fear of retaliation. Here, we can.

Hidden True Crime
>>85009575

Thanks for sharing. I'm open (for the sake of clarifying my argument), to say amber was the abuser here. It still doesn't change the chilling precedent the verdict sets. That is my worry. ... I'm personally less worried about who is or isn't lying. I don't have emotional connections to Heard or Depp. I don't follow the research John does when it comes to assessing victims and perpetrators. My concern is that real victims voices will now be muzzled due to the chilling effect this case will have. I'd be more comfortable with the verdict if it was a criminal case, and Johnny wasn't charged with domestic abuse, and Amber Heard lost. I then wouldn't have the same concern I have now. Since this is a defamation trial, and the concern in question is an op-ed Amber wrote, , the verdict silences victims, even if Amber is not a victim.

Samantha Wolf

As an abuse survivor this verdict weight heavy on my heart, but as someone who has served on a jury, this is exactly as expected. It's important to remember that in this defamation case the question was not "did abuse occur", it was "did Amber lie about anything". If the jury believes that she lied about anything, they are specifically instructed to disregard all of her testimony. Amber's "pledge vs donate" distinction was enough to perjure herself and therefore exempt all of her testimony & the evidence that originated from her. I also had serious doubts about her account of pictures, editing, timeframes, TMZ releases, etc. Every juror can believe all of her accounts of abuse, as you do (I'm undecided) - and still is required to set that aside if they believe pledge & donate are different actions or believe the testimony of the TMZ guy about the video leak/release/edit. I think perjury & the structure of defamation cases would be a great question to ask Lori Hellis.

Emily Lou

I find the internet gang mentality frustrating. No room for nuance or disagreements. IMO - She is a victim - and she is an abuser. Both can be true. My thought is that Amber did misrepresent the situation in her op Ed. She didn’t tell the full story. If she had, it would have been a better and more interesting op Ed, quite frankly. I think the jury fell for JD’s charm and then found her extremely unlikable so it muddied the waters. In truth, he is funny and charming and she comes off as cold calculating and unlikable. Frankly, this should not have influenced the jury as it has the internet, but a jury is made up of humans, I guess.

Mary Owen

Did you watch this trial and hear recordings where Amber admitted she hit Johnny?? Are you aware that men can be victims of domestic abuse as well. She has been arrested before forevassaulting her wife. She has priors and Depp had long term relationships with no do claims. Your opinion is coming from a very skewed lens and I’m so sorry to hear it. I had so much respect for both of you. I’ve never seen a Depp or Heard movie and I have experienced DV. This woman lied and lied. I’m so glad the jury weighed the evidence objectively.

Emily Lou

For the record, JD is awful. I would not want my daughter to be involved with someone like that.

Hidden True Crime

This is Lauren. I want to clarify my concerns. I'm less worried about who is or isn't lying. For the sake of clarifying my argument, let's call Amber Heard an abuser. Even if she is, my concern remains. My concern is that real victims voices will now be muzzled due to the chilling effect this case will have. I'd be more comfortable with the verdict if it was a criminal case, and Johnny wasn't charged with domestic abuse. I then wouldn't have the same concern I have now. Since this is a defamation case, and the concern in question is an op-ed Amber wrote, I believe the verdict silences victims, even if Amber is not a victim. The chilling effect this verdict has will make many real victims shy away from sharing their honest story, no matter who the actual victim/s is/are.

Emily Lou
>>85011929

You should watch their YouTube on this. They know men can be victims. I am happy to hear different perspectives on issues even if I disagree with them.

Gail Clark

I understand the trial was about what is and is not acceptable words. However, it is so much more. It opened the door to something that was never talked about before now. That anyone, man or woman, can be a victim of domestic abuse. And anyone can be an abuser. The strength to go into a courtroom is something we have to help survivors find. Depp and Heard were a toxic mix. The fact that they were both abusers and abused. As a society we have to put the tools in the hands of those that need help, regardless of man or woman.

Carly Fontana

Thanks so much for your heart felt thoughts. I hadn’t thought of it that way prior to hearing your thoughts, but I definitely see what you are saying. The effects it will cause for others can be damaging. I was thinking that the reason they found it defamatory was the sexual abuse statement. I think if she had just said abuse, they would have come back in her favor. The reason I think this is based on the question the jury asked during deliberations. I think they were wondering whether they had to consider the sexual abuse for sure. I think that type of abuse wasn’t as easily proved. I think that’s they same reason they came back in favor of her on the second statement Johnny allegated (is that a word?). Because there were statements that weren’t shown to be absolutely true. But the others were more simply stated just about abuse. Now this doesn’t mean I agree, this is just my analysis of why they came back with the verdicts they did. I’m also hoping that due to the fame involved that this won’t have a domino affect for more average people in abusive situations. I really hope so. But I see the concern that it definitely could. Thank you again for always being open and honest!

Tamara Wakeman Sukohl

I really don’t know what to think. I can only say that I am deeply conflicted about this case and I’m not a Johnny Depp or Amber Heard fan. I believe that drugs, alcohol, money, and power corrupted their relationship and that both were equally bad for each other. It’s sad that our society views this case as entertainment. As for silencing the voice of victims, that voice has been silenced since the beginning of time. If I were Amber, and Johnny abused me the way she claims I would go one of two ways. I would go to therapy,heal, and let it go, or I would talk louder! Johnny will be ok either way. I left my abusive first marriage and talked louder, until I healed.

Toni Quilico-Kriebel
>>85009575

It does t silence them if you look at how he was a victim and now is heard though. I was watching a stream that real victims of DA were on crying saying this is a win for all victims. So I guess it’s how you look at it.

Toni Quilico-Kriebel

Johnny did talk louder!! I truly do hope he has addictions under control and can live a happy, pain free, clean life with someone that will truly love him and that he can treat with respect this time. I was never s Johnny Depp fan but after hearing about his life I would go see his next movie. I will never want to see anything this woman is in and probably won’t buy L’Oréal makeup again.

Stephanie Graham
>>85012168

Few questions: How was th jury supposed to believe her when she lied about silly stuff like editing pictures, selling the video to TMZ, and donating money. It’s not that abuse victims will need to have evidence it’s abuse victims should not ever fabricate evidence.

amanda

The right or wrong, agree or disagree, abused or not… it does matter. As someone who was mentally and verbally abused for 20 years, I saw the verdict as a victory. The Amber in my life smeared my name, I lost friends, family, and business - because my Amber LIED and defamed me! So many people do t believe that I was abused because I never had bruises or broken bones. I was called the liar because my Amber put on a good sob story. I’ve lost my voice because for deflection and lies. I wholeheartedly believe Amber did the same… and then she lost. The jury didn’t believe her. They believed Johnny. In this case, I am Johnny and it is an absolute win for everyone that sees it from my perspective. It gives hope that there are people out there that just might believe us - that maybe some people will see through the BS that our Ambers are spewing. There is so much proof that she lied about so many things. I say, “Good job, jury!”

amanda
>>85012168

But why would you want a liar to win. That doesn’t help future victims. It only helps lying abusers. Everyone should want the jury to get it right! Lying is abuse too.

Nora Ann

I have gotten attacked for siding with Amber. So I will probably get attacked here as well. I believed her. She was abused by him. He had all the power in the relationship. He is old enough to be her father. He had more life experience. Yet he chose to be controlling, condescending and abusive towards her. He was smug throughout the proceedings and wouldn’t even look at her. I was abused in my teens by my step father and the things he did and said matched so closely to how Johnny treated Amber. Johnny popularity far out weighs Ambers. It always has and always will. He has more power, money and fame. Of course he won. From day one Amber was shot down. I’m not saying she is a saint. They both abused drugs and alcohol. I believe that he has abused others but they can’t afford to upset him. One actress who dated him does side with Amber because he treated her badly. Ellen Barkin was shot down by Johnny. Oh well they say it’s a man’s world. That is especially true in Hollywood.

Stephanie Graham
>>85011765

I would add about the former TMZ guy, if what he said was not true they would 100% have already said something about it. Furthermore to add some more support to his claim there is a short bit directly talking about Amber leaking the video, the same video she said she didn’t leak.

amanda
>>85012168

If we’re calling Amber an abuser, we should find comfort in the verdict. Victims should see it as a win because the courts found the lying abusers in the wrong! They found an abuser guilty of her “crimes”. THAT SHOULD BE A GOOD THING!!

Nora Ann

Monica Lewinsky wrote a wonderful piece on the trial. People should read it.

amanda
>>85012845

Yes! I believe it also opened the door for victims of emotional and verbal abuse! ✋🏼 The jury told Amber, and the world watching, that you can’t lie and get away with it. Let’s face it, part of the reason victims aren’t believed and are afraid to come forward is because some bad apples lied about abuse and ruined it for everyone. This verdict told those bad apples that they better think twice. And in doing so, it opened the door for those telling the truth, to be heard (no pun intended), listened to, and believed.

Stephanie Graham
>>85015578

Johnny treated her badly? She saw him throw a bottle across the room. He wasn’t throwing it at her nor was he mad at her. Did he do drugs yes everyone in Hollywood was doing drugs 30 years ago. They had a sexual relationship, he was jealous and controlling but he NEVER abused her. Wouldn’t you think Kate Moss would have refused to speak out if he abused her? Also he didn’t hold power over Kate because while they were dating their fame was probably equal.

Stephanie Graham
>>85011840

I think the jury had trouble believing Amber because Amber lied. I don’t think charm had anything to do with it. She fabricated pictures, she lied about selling the video, and she lied about donating money. She lost this case and the only person to blame is the person she sees when she looks in the mirror.

Chelsea Jackman

As somebody in the throes of separation following abuse, the verdict in no way dissuades me from using my voice and using the law as a remedy. My abuser (what a strange way to refer to somebody) has, on multiple occasions, threatened to go after me for “slander” (slander is not a legal term used within this jurisdiction). I know the truth in my case. Yes, I FINALLY had the wherewithal to start documenting some things over the years, so I do have pieces of evidence of the abuse I’ve survived. No amount of evidence - even if it had all been recorded - could outweigh the psychological impact the abuse had on me. This is because abuse starts so innocuously that one doesn’t recognize it is abuse. I think back to “jokes” he would make about me pushing a shopping cart on the highway - likening me to a crazy homeless woman - to travel to visit him in the early part of our relationship. We lived in different cities. I never found this funny, but thought I was the person with a problem. Would this, too, have been documented? I wouldn’t have known to document this, but simply reliving it enough to write this is rather troubling. Somehow, the jury, in my opinion, took a page out of HTC’s opinion with its findings. The jury found both parties were defamed, both parties defamed the other, and not that any party abused the other. The jury felt the defamation was moreso at the hands of AH. No jury is perfect, but I applaud the jury for its work and how seriously they demonstrated they wanted to thoroughly understand the judge’s instructions. I feel sadly for those who are negatively impacted by today’s findings. I once knew a civil judge and what he said to me rings in my ears to this day (he did not preside over jury trials). Specifically, he said, “At the end of the day, if neither party is happy, I’m confident I made a fair ruling.” This was sage advice and I often go back to this statement to strike some semblance of balance from situations that feel out of control. As always, be good to yourselves, Dr John and Lauren (and of course, little Banks). And, anybody who might be reading this needs to be similarly gentle with themselves, ESPECIALLY if you disagree with the relevant ruling. Lots of murderers have been found guilty and sentenced since the OJ trial. Never be afraid to use your voice. I wish I’d used mine years ago. Warmly, Chelsea

Chelsea Jackman
>>85015207

I agree with your sentiment regarding abuse. Wishing you all the best as you reclaim your voice. It’s a difficult journey. Lots of love and light to you.

Charee Hull

My take is that both arguments have merit. Those who have been abused need to be able to come forward and not be ridiculed but one who is accused cannot automatically be labeled as guilty and punished without evidence either. Imagine if your son was dating someone who became angry at him and accused him of abuse. As a parent, you would want to be sure the accusations were valid before he was punished for them, I believe. There has to be some balance there, in my opinion , between how we treat the accuser and the accused.

Chrissy Jackson

All I have to say is that neither party should have played this out in the civil courts, something I have said before. If it was real domestic abuse, then it should have been dealt with as a criminal matter which would have empowered victims to come forward. Both used civil matters to stab each other in the back which is sick and immoral. I really value Dr John’s opinion but I don’t understand the unwillingness to consider that Amber either is lying or is blind to the fact that her goading created this mutually abusive relationship. I have known many people who try and push their partner to the brink, and that’s what I see and hear in all the recordings in this trial. Goading and reaction between a couple clearly under the influence.

Chrissy Jackson

I agree Lauren that this might open the floodgates for damages rather than criminal justice and convictions for abusers.

Stephanie Graham

My thoughts as a sexual, domestic, emotional, financial abuse survivor. I believed Amber in the beginning, because who would ever lie about this. But once she took the stand and in cross both times her lies were exposed. First the pledge vs donate then the edited pictures, and final straw was lying that she didn’t give the video to TMZ. All of that made me rethink my support and belief in her story because this trial has shown her to be a lying lier that lies. This Depp win does a disservice to abuse victims because of Amber’s lies. Thanks to Amber abuse victims will need to have thorough documentation of the abuse. Thanks to Amber a bruise is no longer good enough Thanks to Amber speaking up about abuse has become harder for victims because she LIED.

Julie Holden

I just have to say how VERY much I appreciate and value my fellow members of HTC's Patreon! I feel like the comments section here is the only place on the internet where I've found a balanced discussion about this trial. I mean it, seriously! I am so impressed by the way everyone here is having a respectful discussion. 💖 I wish there was more of this going on out there in the Wild West that the internet/social media/comments and online chats have become!

Nora Ann
>>85015578

We can agree to disagree. He did abuse her. Yes, she hit him and yelled at him. He tried to keep her down with his snide arrogant comments about her dress and body. He was jealous and controlling. He always had the upper hand. He had the money power and fame, not to mention the years he had on her. He is old enough to be her father. He had addictions. He was a drug addict and I’m sorry, but drug addicts (I’m including alcoholics in this) are cruel demoralizing people. There are people in Hollywood who side with her. I don’t care for either of them and don’t watch movies.

amanda

Another thought…. From my understanding you’re upset at the verdict because it may set the precedent that victims will be afraid to come forward without evidence. (Please correct me if I’m wrong) I can see how that will be the case for some victims. I believe your story and believe your fear - and obviously you won’t be the only victim with those thoughts. And even if you were the only one, you alone thinking this makes it valid. That being said, I think we need to keep in mind that the jury didn’t find Amber in the wrong (in other words - that she lied) because she didn’t present evidence, or enough evidence to prove it wasn’t a lie and she was really abused. The jury found her wrong because there was evidence to prove that she lied. She wasn’t a victim that was called a liar simply for coming forward with her story, she was called a liar because there was proof that she lied about it.

Kathleen Miller
>>85019333

Thank you for your honest point of view as a victim of abuse. Johnny minimized the verbal abuse and made excuses for it, but as to the sexual abuse and her actions after he left her, she was caught in her lies on the stand. We all may believe or not believe because of what we have experienced in the past. I have heard so many women that are a victim of abuse say what Amber said on the stand didn't ring true to them as survivors like you. I am not sure what a victim of abuse does. I can't say I love Johnny Depp or think that he didn't abuse on the other side.

Becky Carter

I am so sad that Amber wasn’t believed. I think she was abused especially when Johnny was drunk and high. Living through that nightmare would have been horrible. I also am upset that the jury blamed her for the title of the op-Ed. She did not write the title. She was speaking out as an abused spouse. This was also just a small part of the article. I think that Amber was right…Johnny is like a huge luxury ship who can plow over anything and everyone will protect him and get out of the way. He was also VERY condescending and disrespectful of Amber’s team of lawyers. This is a HUGE step backwards for victims of abuse who try to have the courage to come forward.

lizzy s

While I don't agree, I do want to acknowledge the bravery it took for you to give your opinions. You knew the majority wouldn't agree and might even unsubscribe from you. Which affects your livelihood. So while I don't agree, I can still respect your voice and your courage. Love you Lauren and Jon

Mildred Demiroz

Thank you both and for the commenters for the heads up on what your reactions would be. I respect the content you both create but I will not be listening again to your takes on this matter. I appreciate as a patron I guess the space to offer mine on your platform. Today actress Amber Heard stepped in to court in her infamous black dress she wore at her TRO and photo op. She expected to be the heroine again, riding through last wisps of the metoo movement - but faced another reality. Truth and justice. I too watched this trial gavel to gavel, as well as countless replays and legal analytical commentary. I watched testimony, experts and witnesses. I watched both parties on the stand. As a woman. As a clinician. As a daughter of a dv survivor and parents of trauma and personality disorders - I am so proud of these jurors and have a profound renewed respect for the legal system. The facts and evidence were evident and compelling. Today the balance of justice was righted for all genders of sexual and domestic violence. We may have a right to speak up about abuse but no one has the right to defame and destroy someone’s life without impunity. As a POC I hope this a turning point in which people stop asserting a self given right to lie and to accuse without the other party the right to legal due process, and to the right to defend themselves. I watched this woman’s bizarre behavior in court. Her countless lies. Her snickering. Her maniacal voice recordings. Her admission to physical violence. Her abject denial of everything except her narrative. I watched her psychopathically mimic even to the detail Johnny’s dress to look like him. I’ve watched her incongruous speech, facial and body movements. I’ve watched her minimize, mischaracterize and humiliate Johnny Depp. Little she said made logical sense. It’s unfortunate that she is also an unlikeable figure. Today I am happy. I am happy for actual victims of violence. Their truth and stories matter, their voices should be elevated in dignity and seriousness. The character of Ms Heard has done nothing but sully their cause. I refuse to believe someone because they are a woman because “all women should be believed”. No. Women are also liars and deceivers. Men are also victims and survivors. Truth matters.

Stephanie Graham
>>85023283

No she did not write the title but the problem is she shared the electronic version and did nothing to correct the title. There were no allegations of SA by Depp until he sued, then miraculously she has a story about a broken bottle a not broken bottle she thinks it was a bottle. Being condescend and misogynistic doesn’t make him a physical and/or sexual abuser. Amber lost because she LIED plain and simple. She lied about selling the video to TMZ she lied about editing the pictures and she lied about donating the money. Any fair and unbiased person can’t help but question what else she lied about. She didn’t prove herself as a victim because she chose to lie.

Hidden True Crime
>>85023323

Wow Lizzy, this means a lot, thank you! Truly, our hope is to be able to share freely here --that means everyone in this conversation. In a polarized world that loves to cancel people when they see things differently than others, it's scary to share an unpopular or unexpected opinion. We really want Hidden True Crime to be a place where that is possible--to have a dialogue with ideas and opinions where everyone can listen and be heard (no pun intended ;) )

Stephanie Graham
>>85015578

Wait he abused her but she hit him?? She ALSO abused not hit but ABUSED him as well. She called him fat and old. She had addictions as well to alcohol psychedelics and cocaine. So she too was cruel and demoralizing. Yes he had age and power but she has her beauty and while together being with a powerful older man afforded her exposure to get parts because she was Johnny’s wife. She sat on the stand and lied and it’s quite sad, because she didn’t need to. Had she corrected the title to remove sexual abuse, there would be no case because they were both abusive to each other.

Stephanie Graham
>>85019333

She also minimized her verbal abuse and made excuses for it as well as her being physically abusive. There are so many things I would never do such as take pictures of my ex at any point in time. I never left my house with any bruises and at the time I worked in the beauty industry so I had color correction kits concealer, the works. I wouldn’t embellish the events of my abuse in fact I typically say less and minimize what happened because it’s embarrassing. I can say I’m a victim but getting into the details is hard.

Michelle Matas

@Hidden True Crime, Lauren & Dr. John, first I 100% love and respect both of you, and when you gave your thoughts on AH I shared it with others. That said, I spent most of my adult life working in Hollywood on sets at Disney, Universal, Paramount and the list goes on, I share that to say this, they are all crazy... all of them, of all the celebrities I've met i would say a handful are "normal." JD and AH speaking the way they did to one another is normal in that world, they spend a ton of money (to their publicist) to clean themselves up so the studio can pitch their brand to you, so you will allow your family to bringtheirfamilyinto your home at night. They spend billions of dollars on this. Why do I say this.. because not only have I worked in Hollywood, but I am also a victim of abuse... when Dr. John shared his thoughts on the doctors, I stopped listening to their thoughts, it reminded me to focus on the facts of the case and what I already knew of Hollywood. The fact is AH and JD have ppl that clean them up for the public, we don't know them, I also know that comps are not done the way AHs team said they are done, I use to do them, AHs story changed quite a lot, she was harder to believe. Both sides didn't really win the money was a wash, AH still is ahead cost wise, and JD gets his name back. Here is my fear, with all this ME TO going on, I know its true, it happened to me, but I don't think it's right to tank someone's career, like Kevin Spacey, or JD because someone started a rumor, that stuff should go into the court system like it did with Henry Winstean, I think if AH would have gone after JD that way it might have been a different outcome. The way she did it came at the same time of her movie release and we all know that good or bad PR is good PR as long as you get your name out there in the media. I also question if he really did all that stuff since I personally never heard it while I was in Hollywood and believe me, us Hollywood folk do know a lot of stuff, JD was never discussed as a wife beater, NEVER.

Emily Lou

I think she did lie. Frankly, I think Johnny Depp is less than truthful as well, but the trial wasn’t about that I suppose. It was more about her veracity since she’s the one who wrote the article. I think the personalities of the two inevitably have something to do with it as well. There is a reason attorneys are so careful about jury selection. Juries are made up of people who come with their own biases and experience. This case in particular - where you have to determine things like malice is pretty subjective.

Stephanie Graham
>>85011972

For the record, AH is awful as well. I’m a boy mom and I would not want my son to be involved with someone like that.

Emily Lou
>>85011972

Stephanie - I’m a boy mom and a girl mom. I want my children to have happy and satisfying lives and not to live them with someone as messed up as either of those two. I mentioned JD specifically because everyone and their dog is already piling on AH so it’s didn’t seem to need to be said.

Becca Moorhead

She is also facing perjury charges in the UK and Australia. Because of the massive differences in her testimony.

Jamye Alexandra

Thanks for your reaction. I always appreciate both of you sharing. My concern was also that this case sets a dangerous precedent. And I was disturbed at the vitriol people displayed towards Amber throughout the trial. However, I also believe that this was a unique case, with extraordinary circumstances…. I had listened to Johnny Depp & Amber Heards audio recordings a year or so ago. I went into the trail fully on the side of Johnny Depp, as I felt that a woman in the public eye falsely claiming abuse has a devastating effect for real victims. Listening to the trail actually swayed me to believe that this was a disturbing, mutually abusive relationship. To me it did feel like Amber was grossly exaggerating the physical abuse. It don’t see how she can be punched multiple times in the face on multiple occasions, and have her nose broken twice, but barely have a bruise the next day. And be able to go on TV… Makeup doesn’t cover that level of physical abuse. It’s just not believable. Plus, many people around her testified that they did not see any bruises and presented evidence that she was the aggressor, which is what comes across in the audio tapes. That exaggeration probably made her overall story unbelievable to many. That being said, personally I do believe she suffered physical abuse, just not to the level she described. And I definitely think she withstood a emotionally abusive and controlling partner, with a major drug addiction. I know what that is like from a long past relationship, and it does cause trauma. As I said before, it also seems clear that she was physically and mentally abusive to Johnny as well. I am processing the verdict. It is what I expected. I hated the witch hunt and feel bad for Amber. I do worry about the message it sends. However, due to the extenuating circumstances of this case, my hope is it’s less than we fear. Personally- I would not have found either of them libel.

lizzy s
>>85023323

You're very welcome! You are definitely not cancelled to me :)

Crystal Swannack

I respect you guys so much but I cannot understand how you let the fact that one doctor misdiagnosed her keep you from seeing the fact that she was lying through her teeth and he was the victim here. It's so clear

Crystal Swannack

It feels to me that you are letting your experiences dictate what that means for other people of the same gender or opposite gender. And it feels like you're allowing gender to completely fuel your opinions. Men can't be victimless just because they're men and women can't be victims just because they're women. She is clearly lying and manipulating, she even States it herself sitting there telling Johnny he's being a big whiny baby because she hit him she literally says that!!! He was the one that was emotionally abused and you can hear it and see it and see her lying manipulative ways so clearly. And yes, with so many clever liars and manipulators it should have to be proven in some way. Do we even have any police reports where she called and reported any type of abuse right when it happened that wasn't thrown out immediately because it was fake? No. Just because it doesn't line up with the abuse you experience doesn't mean she wasn't abusive. You cannot be a victim just because you're a woman when you are the abuser in the relationship.

Crystal Swannack

It is a win for male victims. He was guilty before ever being proven that way and she didn't prove anything. I just don't know if I can stay around and I hate to be one of those people. But I have always been an advocate for men can be victims too and this one is so clear. She was LYING though her teeth. Calling him a BABY because she hit him! Did you even watch???

Sylvia See

The impact this case may have on other domestic violence victims was not something put forth for the jury to consider. It would have been prejudicial and unfair to do so. The verdict was based on the merits of the case presented to the jury and in my opinion the jury’s verdict was just.

Toni Quilico-Kriebel
>>85038723

Actually Amber’s lawyer, Rottenbaum, did say it during closings and Depp’s lawyer, Chew, filed a motion did get a curative instruction to the jury saying it was improper.

Toni Quilico-Kriebel
>>85019333

Yeah and her color corrector was an actual “bruise kit” like she said on the stand before correcting the truth that spilled out of her mouth. A bruise kit is an actual kit that one uses to apply bruises to your face or wherever. When she explained how to use it she said concealer, makeup, colors from bruise kit!!! Yep! She was applying bruises not covering them up or else the color corrector would be under your makeup’

Shannon Farrey

I watched the entire trial and I went into it inclined to believe AH because I do strongly feel that survivors of abuse, both male and female, should be believed and supported. I think what many of us witnessed was an incredibly toxic and mutually abusive relationship. AH lied repeatedly on the stand, on issues both small and large, and when she got to the point of describing in very explicit detail alleged SA, which hadn’t been disclosed before, it just didn’t seem credible to me in my gut and clearly the jury didn’t believe her either. This saddens me because any lies AH told under oath were harmful to SA survivors, including myself, who want to be believed and protected. Our First Amendment rights are sacred but they do not give us free rein to falsely accuse others of heinous crimes.

RobynB

Beautifully said, Shannon.

Stephanie Graham
>>85011972

This group on here is pretty balanced in agreeing with Lauren and John and disagreeing with Lauren and John. There’s no need to make a grossly one sided comment if you feel that you wouldn’t want your children to date either.

Tessa Madsen

I love listening to your podcasts, I find them intelligent and informative and I mostly love that I agree with everything you say. I have to admit, I totally disagree with you on this one and it really has bothered me. It’s taken me some self reflection to understand what was bothering me about it. So here are my thoughts…I do not believe Amber was the victim. I believe Jonny and Amber (I love that I am on a first name basis with them😂😂) were in a very abusive and toxic relationship with each other. They both behaved disgusting. I’m annoyed that Amber would then want to go be the poster child for abuse victims. And the statement Amber put out about “free speech” grosses me out. Nothing is “free” in this world. Take accountability, learn from it and move on. This was two entitled adults with too much money acting out in public how they behaved in their private life. It gave me second hand embarrassment. I do NOT think that Amber had the right to play the victim and publicly bash Johnny without consequence. Again she is not the poster child of the domestic violence victim. Maybe the poster child for toxic relationship but not a victim. Can we not on this society acknowledge that the relationship was abusive with no one at fault. Can we not just say we brought out the very worst in each other and we needed to break the cycle, without their having to be a victim? I just do not see Amber as a domestic violence victim here. I see her a choosing a horrible relationship where two adults were toxic and they both want to blame the other. And now they both are paying the consequences of their disgusting behavior. I would like to see more talk about toxic relationships and how to get out without pointing the finger and playing victim. To me it diminishes the experience of true domestic violence victims.

Sarah Valencia
>>85012168

Oh Lauren! This is not going to silence abuse victims. This may stop someone who is going to fabricate an abuse allegation to seek revenge though. If Amber was the abuse like you said, then it should encourage others including men to come forward. In this country we have certain protections, one of those is that you are innocent until proven guilty. Another is the right to free speech. Even though we do have the right to free speech though you can not go around saying things that are untrue and hurt the other person that is being accused. That is defamation and no one should ever have to go through that. Imagine if your son was older and someone he was in a relationship accused him of the same things with no pictures or statements from him showing that he did such things. All the other part has are some calculated tape recordings of the worst arguments they got in. You would want Justice to prevail just like I would if God forbid something ever happened like that to mine. Domestic abuse should never falsely be claimed. It is disgusting and makes it so much harder for real victims to come forward. That is why so many victims of DV, including myself, are against Amber. Hopefully the jury’s verdict will send a clear message that you can not just publicly allege things that did not happen.

Sarah Valencia
>>85015578

When did you ever see or hear him say he abused her?? Johnny is no saint and he never claims he is. Also, what man wouldn’t be jealous when his wife is having affairs? I’m also not sure what Ellen Barking has to do with anything. She wanted more than what he was willing to give her….and… Kate Moss and Vanessa people who were actually in long term relationships with him have said he was never abusive. Can’t say that about people who have been with Amber though.

Melanee Evans
>>85006742

I respect you both so much. We need soft and genuinely open spaces to let our viewpoints breathe. We need spaces where honest, contrasting dialogue is welcomed even though it’s sometimes hard to hear. I’m more interested in the nature and possibility of respectful open dialogue than even in the distinct opinions in this trial, of which I have having watched the whole thing. I particularly resonated with what you said about the benefit of observing and noticing one’s own thoughts on a situation or idea before immediately filling our minds with the running dialogue of any others, professionals included. I appreciate that Dr. John often says he’s coming to his analyses without having read outside commentary on the situation. I’m interested in those insights, even if my insights are different. I remember going to an event and a well-known musician got up to perform and my friend, whose husband is a musician, apparently spent time with this guy and didn’t like him, and my friend learned over and made disparaging remarks about this musician and I was super irked that her words ran in my mind while he performed, instead of experiencing him fresh. Thank you for your courage in sharing your honest takes on this trial, and for holding this space open for us to share too.

Stephanie Graham
>>85019333

Exactly you don’t put the color corrector on the outside of your makeup because you would be able to see the the green, yellow, purple etc. The corrector goes on the very first layer because it’s a cancellation product. I’ve also never seen someone with bruises or any type of skin issue that applied color corrector and they looked “flawless fresh faced” like the pictures that was taken the day after the TRO.

Michelle Matas
>>85038304

I don't think they are letting that fact keeping them from seeing the outcome, I think they are concerned that the one piece was overlooked. I also think they are aware of her lies but just have a different take on it that we are not seeing. But you are bring to the table a good question that need to be addressed, if you think it others does well

Erin Morgan

Could not disagree with you guys more on this one. I was in an abusive and narcissistic relationship and believe me, Heard is a lying narcissist.

Alan Townsend

I just can’t believe Dr John could be “absolutely certain”. I found your work through the lori Vallow podcasts and loved the even handed and erudite discussion. But this? How can any professional be absolutely certain about the facts of a case where the facts are contested? I really thought your reaction would be more level headed. BTW, I watched the whole thing and whilst AH clearly lied about a lot of things, I accept that that doesn’t mean she lied about everything. But it should remove any sense of certainty from the case. I’m sure I’ll get over it but this does make me less interested in hearing your opinion on true crime - not because I disagree, but because you were so vehement when in reality nobody really can be that certain. I should also mention that I spent ten years in a miserable relationship with an abusive narcissist who had a lot in common with Amber, but I went into this case thinking they were a pair of Hollywood nits who deserved each other…

Heather
>>85015578

Nora, where is the proof that he abused her? There isn’t any, and that’s why the jury ruled in Depp’s favor. I believe she went after him because she wanted money and power and made those videos because she knew she would divorce him one day and need some evidence. I think this whole thing was very calculated by her.

JB

Thank you for sharing your unpopular but educated opinion. It helped me see this trial in a whole new light. I agree with Lauren, this was a win for abusers. People everywhere are rallying behind Johnny but completely ignoring the fact that he was also an abuser. There was plenty of evidence of emotional and mental abuse. It’s very scary that all of that was dismissed by the jury, and by the public. I don’t know if Amber was sexually abused, I personally don’t find her to be a likable person and maybe my feelings about her create a personal bias. I think I want to believe she is a liar. She cleared lied about editing the photos and fake cried during her testimony. No one will ever know what really happened. I certainly hope this case doesn’t prevent survivors from coming forward but my gut tells me it will.

TriciaTheTrucker

I really loved and identify with your comments about wanting to form your own opinions first... To watch the trial by yourself with your own thoughts before they start coming from all directions. I actually did that, just listened without anything else and I formed the same opinion as you. I was actually really surprised when I started to hear the social media Buzz. And I am worried with you Lauren and John, this was a terrible example for people in abusive situations now not wanting to come forward. It's heartbreaking 💔😢

Tracy Warberg Holliday
>>85051357

I agree. It just felt like AH was saying every witness of JD’s was lying and everything was his fault. It was toxic, on both sides, for sure. She took no accountability for any of it. When someone lies over and over and is caught, it’s difficult to believe one word that comes out of their mouth.

Lynette Butler

Is it about coming forward or about going to the press with things that may contain some lies? I looked at this in the light of Melani and Brandon. I don’t know if Amber was lying but i don’t want women believed just because of our gender. I was very happy Brandon Boudreaux won his defamation suit even though we saw that Melani was very convincing to the police ‘bravely coming forward’ to call Brandon an abuser and pedophile. I can imagine myself immediately taking her side of I hadn’t known the full context. I guess I’m asking Shouldn’t there need to be some kind of evidence? I know it can be hard. I left an abusive relationship and it was part of my divorce but I didn’t have the urge to have it in the Press. Is that not coming forward? I confess I wanted Melani and the police to lose because Melani did have malice even though her accusations were “revealed” to her. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Brandon called Melani names to his friends (I think the money Python context WAS important). I’m still glad Brandon won. I’m not siding with Depp. He had a massive PR team. I just want to be fair here. And I don’t think Amber told the complete truth about him or about herself. I think if her motive was to be brave and help other women she would have also told the truth about herself and her behavior in the article. Again, I’m thinking of Lori and Melani here—we’ve seen that women can make tearful and incredibly convincing accusations to family, to friends, etc against men who may be guilty of some mistakes but are not guilty of what these women accused them of to anyone who would listen.

Ramona

I also was abused as a child and an adult. I am now out of abusive situations and have been in counseling. I have a different opinion in that this was not about DV. It was a defamation suit. I watch her testimony on the stand. She was not credible in my opinion. (Amber Heard) They are both abuser and addicts. Most poeple are not celebrities and do not write op eds with the ACLU. She was just as guilty as he was. The trial in England is not comparable. It was a bench trial, decided by a judge. The judge did not let in much of Johnny Depp testimony because he was an addict. Apples and oranges. To say that no one will believe those who have experienced dv is not true. As a teen, I told a teacher and a neighbor about what was happening to me and was not believed. This trial will have very little effect on whether a person is believed or not. It is an individual and person thing. Depp and Heard both have millions of dollars. Both proved to be substance abusers and both are celebrities with 1st world problems that are not relatable to most people.

Samantha Wolf

Regarding the possibility of future defamation cases from abusers against victims speaking out: these cases cost hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in attorneys fees & court fees (document subpoenas, for example). It is not a new concept to me that wealthy people can pay to clear their name in the public eye via attorneys, and it's not surprising. Attorneys don't take cases like this without upfront payments, so abusers would pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin - a high barrier for both sides. Another interesting topic to ask Lori Hellis! I've always thought that some of those wierd public notices in the classified sections are the result of defamation related lawsuits. Kind of a "if you don't tell the public I didn't steal your 40 acres, I'll sue you into oblivion" situation.

Joanna Mulvaney

This whole thing was post relationship abuse. By dragging her through the courts and choosing a jurisdiction where the trial would be televised, he humiliated her as he said he would. He had sent the message that it doesn’t matter that she left, he can still play games and punish her. The fact that he sued her and not the aclu who wrote the piece or the Washington post who published it means something. He with his own words verbally and in text messages and emails said that he head butted her, kicked her and slapped her. Even if those were the only instances of violence that could be corroborated, it falsifies the defamation claim. Having listened to the full recordings of the

Joanna Mulvaney

Sorry can’t edit my comments on the phone, continuing: having listened to the full recording presented as evidence rather than the selectively edited versions going round social media, it was very clear what had lead up to the ‘smoking gun’ comments that people like to pull out. I find it interesting as well how many women are so fast to say “I don’t like her” or “she’s an awful person” or “she comes of as unlikeable” to qualify their interpretation of the publically available evidence that amber heard was physically abused for years before they even got married. Also she didn’t volunteer to appear in court and air all the dirty laundry, she was forced to by him.

Joanna Mulvaney

An interesting question is why do people dislike this woman so much whether they believe her or not? What is it that triggers this reaction? It seems to happen a lot. I know so many people who lose it and say nasty things in arguments. It’s normal. It doesn’t mean it’s good but if it’s a routine observation that people throw all sorts of verbal barbs in very emotionally charged situations. Normal means common not “the correct thing”. But some how this makes this woman so much worse than anybody. Is it because we identify with her, an imperfect person, so if she can be treated cruelly we can, and we need to say “I’m not like her” to feel safe? Is it that we are supposed to dislike women who seem “ungrateful” whatever that means? Is it pervasive misogyny? We are all touched by it growing up. A lot of us have a lot of it to unlearn as we grow up. I have been shocked by the amount of scorn and vitriol thrown at her, but nobody will tell me what it is that makes her worse than Evan Rachel wood etc. What did she do that was so awful before Depp forced her to court after the Sun reported the restraining order?

April Bowman
>>85015578

I really have to disagree that drug abusers and alcoholics are cruel demoralizing people. As with sober people, it depends on the person. So anyone thinking he was an abuser because he drank and did drugs could quite possibly be wrong.

Nicole Plazas

I love you and respect you John and Lauren. Even though I disagree in some points I really enjoy having this discussion very much. I invite you all to watch Psychology in Seattle conclusion on the verdict. I believe he has a very healthy way of analyzing both sides. Dr. John asked if there were other professionals questioning Dr Curry and Dr Hughs testimonies and he does an excellent job. I think. Thank you for your great job as usual. Here is the link: https://youtu.be/G_7gdH5XPZc

Stephanie Graham
>>85125291

He sued her because she signed her name and approved the article. They were a ghost writer, ghost writers don’t get credit nor are they liable. I personally believe he did hit her I also believe she hit him. I absolutely do not believe her actions were reactive I believe she was the aggressor some and he was the aggressor other times. The problem with the whole case is Amber LIED MULTIPLE TIMES and she didn’t need to. She was caught editing photos, she claims she didn’t leak the video to TMZ, and she said she donated the money. She gave the absolute wrong order when applying color correction to cover a bruise and now we also know she lied about paying 6 million dollars to the lawyers. I will add to be able to color correct that well is a skill that very few actual makeup artists have and if she was that good at color correcting and makeup she would know that the contour powder that she used during the trial was absolutely not right for her skin color and she would have been better at hiding the dark circles under her eyes. Final thoughts on makeup, the pictures the day after the TRO where she was laughing she claims that she had on makeup to cover the bruise isn’t possible not a person alive can apply color corrector and still look that fresh faced. Had Amber been truthful Depp would have never won. She sunk her case because she showed herself as a lying liar that lies. The jury could only hear the portion of the recordings we all heard. They could only review the evidence we all saw. They could only use the information from witnesses we all listened to. The jury very clearly came to the conclusion if she lied about all of that then she isn’t very credible. I would also like to add her stories of the fights weren’t supported by pictures. She detailed some of the worst abuse I’ve heard since Rhianna and Chris Brown but was photographed literally 24 hours later with nothing, no bruising, swelling, caked on makeup to cover the bruise, she looked flawless 100% of the time. Arnica cream works wonders but not like this. Amber would literally need to be some sorta super hero to heal that quickly. Also, you ask why didn’t he sue the WA PO because he would need to prove the op-Ed they published was false, so there is a possibility they could get sued as well. He’s also locked in a lawsuit with the ACLU so this win will boost that case I’m sure.

Traci Schuller

I am so furious right now, that I had to take my arm brace off so I could write this while still furious. 1) EVIDENCE: AH did not share 1 piece of evidence that she was abused. Not one. She produced the video of Johnny going off on the kitchen cabinets. You want to talk "out of context"? He was going off about losing a $60 mil roll. He was going off about the studio. And when he yelled about being recorded? secretly? Which is illegal in California?? Yeah, he yelled, and she giggled just before she shut it off. Wow, she must've been terrified, why else would she giggle? Another recording is when SHE was egging him on for a fight. SHE was following him all around the house. HE was trying to evade her. SHE was getting super pissed about that. SHE had already been HITTING HIM. SHE admitted that in the recording. "I wasn't punching you, I was hitting you!" Turn that around. If Johnny said that to Amber, as some sort of excuse, some sort of gaslighting that she was being silly, and over reactive, because he was HITTING her, not PUNCHING her. Then there's the recording that wasn't even introduced in the trial, when SHE cut the tip of his finger off. SHE was saying sorry and being hysterical about it. But in the celeb world, HE didn't want HER to get a bad rap for it, so he said he did it. But there's a recording, right after it happened where it's clearly, exactly, how Johnny said it happened in his testimony. Amber claimed that Johnny raped her with a broken bottle, and he dragged her through a bunch of broken glass. But, she didn't seek medical attention. And the very next day she was dancing around in a short summer dress with no cuts or bruises. Amber claimed that Johnny punched her repeatedly in the face one night, and the next day she had an itty bitty bruise with no swelling. Amber claimed that she hid that bruise with a make up pallet that wasn't released until 3 years AFTER that incident. And the day AFTER that itty bitty bruised from the repeated blows from Johnny...*POOF* they're gone!! Amber testified that during text exchanged between her and Johnny, she wasn't being clingy or jealous when she kept texting over and over "Call me" "Don't ignore me" "Answer me" "me me me" nope, she was trying to save him from getting high. But, wait.... Johnny was trying to go see his daughter. Amber testified "Yeah, she might have been there," Nobody saw the injuries. The police did not see injuries to Amber when they were called. The building guy (I forget was his title was) never saw injuries to Amber. And when Amber called him, all freaked out about somebody trying to get into the penthouse, he said "It's the dogs. The scratches are all down low on the door. It's not a person, it was the dogs." But nope, Amber INSISTED that he check out the penthouse, because someone was trying to break in. Isn't there a popular drug that over time, if you snort it enough you become paranoid?? I think it's cocaine, because my sister-in-law used to be hooked, and we lived next door and there were MANY 3:00 am phone calls about someone in the backyard, or trying to break in, or a car was going up and down the road in front of her house. All of Amber's recordings that really pointed a finger at her being...hmmm, what was that Dr Curry said??? Borderline personality disorder and histrionic personality disorder? All of Amber's recordings that REALLY made it look like she was the aggressor, SHE was the abuser, Amber said, well, gee whiz, all the abuse, all the bad behavior from Johnny was OUTSIDE of the recordings. Yeah, that's why the recordings didn't show that he was beating on her, cuz it happened OUTSIDE of the recordings. All of them. 2) INJURY: Because of Amber's claims, and the power of the "Me Too" movement, Johnny lost 2 roles. He lost "Pirates of the Caribbean" and "Fantastic Beasts". That's a lot. But even more, he lost his reputation. So, what you and John are saying is that, that's ok. If a woman cries "Abuse" and the man loses everything, that's ok. Men shouldn't even try to clear their names. Just slink off into the mist, and get out of our sight. Is that really ok? Put yourself in that situation Dr. John!! If a patient of yours cried "rape", and you lose your job, maybe your license, maybe your family, you should just take it!! Really Lauren?? Are you ready to drop Dr. Babe like a bad habit, because a woman he was near for an hour cried "rape"? Cuz that's what you're saying. And if there were somehow a recording of her promising to do fun things to Dr. John, and Dr. John repeatedly telling her not to sit on his lap....still, we're going with the woman who cried "rape". I don't understand how you can say that because Johnny won, this is horrible for abuse survivors. No, it's not because he won, it's because she cried wolf, and there was no wolf. I am an abuse survivor. There are plenty of things that Amber did, that I thought to myself, "OMG!! If I'd even THOUGHT of doing that, there would've been big trouble." If I'd have whipped out a camera to start recording my ex getting worked up about ANYTHING, even something not related to me, if he'd have seen me doing that, both the camera, and I would've ended up broken. Oh, that reminds me, Amber claimed that Johnny broke her nose, with no black eyes, no swelling, and again, no medical attention. If I had ever said the things to my ex, that Amber was saying to Johnny, egging him on for a fight, I would've have gotten that fight, all over my body. You know what I did do? I avoided my ex when he was in a hitting mood. I went to other rooms, I tried to do something that made me less of a target. Hmmm, who else did that?? OH I know!! It was Johnny!! Remember on the illegal recording she made, where she was so pissed that he wasn't being confrontive? He was running away? He wouldn't stay and finish the fight? That's right!! Johnny was trying to avoid her in her hitting mood, just like abused women do, I know I'm not going to change your minds. You seem to have made your minds up. But what I'm hearing you say is that if you are a man, accused of rape, or abuse, by a woman, your or girlfriend, and you lose your job, prospective jobs, your license, your family, your reputation, then, just suck it up, buttercup, because we're going with the woman just because she said so. BUT, if your a woman who gets her fee-fees hurt, then go ahead! Cry rape or abuse!! Make that jerk pay in more ways than one!! Sorry for the rant, but to me, it doesn't even sound like you guys watch any of the trial. You sound like your minds were made up on day one that EVERYTHING Amber said was golden, evidence be damned.

Allison Kellner

I watched this trial "gavel to gavel." As a DV and SA survivor, her testimony alone was enough to make me distrust her. I felt exactly ZERO empathy towards her. I went into this trial believing her. I left this trial realizing that she is the ultimate abuser. Amber, with her bullshit, has silenced victims. Her lies, her exaggeration, her minimizing if her own involvement has made victims look like fools. She lied so damn much that nothing she says can be believed! If she just stuck to the truth and nothing but, she would have been credible. Dr. John was right, this post should have waited.

Ramona

The law was on her side. Had this been a bench trial, (decided by a judge) Amber probably would have won. In my experience, broken noses are swollen for days and the black eyes from a broken nose, are noticeable, even with makeup. When injured by my abuser, I would go to the hospital for treatment, but lie about how I got the injury.

Stephanie Graham
>>85159720

Not if she lied like what she did during this trial. She lied about stupid stuff too. I don’t understand why she chose to lie. She never took responsibility for anything as well.

Becca Sellers

Lauren and Dr. John, While I greatly respect both of you and your opinions, i have to disagree with your opinions on the trial outcome. I grew up in a home with an abusive mother. She was later diagnosed with manic depression (this was the eighties), but she was emotionally and physically abusive to me, my younger brother, AND my father. I can remember her throwing a 10-lb bah of potatoes at his head in a fit of rage, leaving a hole beside his head in the sheetrock. I was a bed-wetter due to a life-long kidney condition. If i wet the bed, she would pin my wet underwear to my clothes and send me to school so everyone in my class would know. This behavior persisted for years. She was even arrested for check-kiting, but no one ever offered to help my dad as an abuse victim, or even acknowledge that he was a victim. Mom eventually got help in a facility, and she is fine now. The point is…nothing has really changed in 40 years. Amber’s testimony was so triggering to me because she reminded me that abusers are really good at blaming everyone else for their own bad behavior, even if that means lying to accomplish the goal. Even if my father had reported what was happening in my home, no one would have believed him. That’s what was so frustrating about this case. I firmly believe in supporting and believing victims…male or female…and calling out abusers…male or female. This is not a commentary on Johnny Depp or Amber Heard. They are two toxic spoiled people who were mutually abusive and shouldn’t have been together, in my opinion. However, after watching the trial gavel-to-gavel, i believe the jury got it right, and i believe this is a victory for abuse victims everywhere. I love, respect, and value your opinions, even when i disagree with you! Keep up the great work!

Stephanie Graham

My final thoughts on this case. Johnny Depp won because Amber Heard lied. This trial and the Depp win had NOTHING to do with a powerful man, misogyny, or lack of evidence. Amber Heard had a mole hill and tried to make it into a mountain by lying and fabricating evidence. The jury saw her lies and the jury saw her fabricated evidence. Had she presented the evidence of the demeaning texts, the emotional abuse, and the feeling of abandonment when he would leave without piling on the fabrication and lies to try and bolster her case she would have won. She lost very simply because she lied.

Joan Pheney Engstrom

Respectfully... I disagree. I believe A. H. is a narcissist ...a terrible actress and an outlandish liar .I believe J.D.is a recovering addict and was likely a verbal abuser. I do not believe A.H. is a borderline... or suffered from PSTD .I find it disgraceful she represents victims of abuse. I'm recovering from V.A. and narcissist abuse. She should be ashamed but won't... she's a narcissist.💚

Katie O
>>85125932

Not to mention, the things he has said to her and about her are far, far worse than anything we have record of her saying.

Katie O
>>85149653

To say that a woman with photos, video, witnesses, and texts has "no evidence" is the scary part to me, along with the fact that you are WOMEN saying these things. Abhorrent. If you don't believe her, you wouldn't believe any survivor, because she's got far more evidence than most. I don't know if facing that JD clearly abused her would mean that you'd have to face your husbands are abusive...or that you yourselves are...or if you're victims of the patriarchy who assume that siding with your oppressor is going to keep you safe. Spoiler alert: it's not. Take a deep look at yourselves because burning the witch isn't going to help protect you. I implore you to listen to the full recordings, rather the ones conveniently edited by Depp's team, in which he admits to headbutting her, in which he never denies it when she speaks about his physical abuse, and in which she clearly says that any "abuse" she partook in was in response to his; an act of protection or resentment against her rapist and violent partner. Seriously, seek help. Your hatred of this woman mirrors the help you must feel for yourselves. All this for a washed up alcoholic actor you thought was hot 30 years ago...ugh!

Katie O
>>85156481

"As a DV and SA survivor...." Proof, please. I mean, you have it in you to call other survivors liars, so surely you don't expect people to blindly believe you. I'm going to need 4k video of the alleged abuse, as well as testimony in which all of your mannerisms and body language are exactly what I think mine would be. Chop chop, get on it! Oh, and don't bother with photos. I'll just tell you you photoshopped them, or hit yourself. :)

Katie O

Gosh you guys, reading these replies, your audience is questionable lol.

Katie O
>>85207096

Can people stop armchair-diagnosing people? Unless you're a mental health professional who has spent a lot of time with someone, you have absolutely no business diagnosing people with personality disorders. Get over yourself.

Katie O
>>85125291

Stephanie, Hope you're having fun defending the "innocence" of a man with a reputation of violence -- even at work -- who is facing another lawsuit next month for assaulting a crew member on the job (not even the first time, by the way). A fantastic use of your time! Everyone's lying but not him, right? PS, he's only started playing up the "innocent, quiet, kind" image recently. He used to be extremely open, in nearly every interview, about his alcoholism and violent rage. So if you need a man's word to regard it as truth because a woman's is not good enough, then take him at his own word.

Allison Kellner
>>85156481

Hi Kate 0. Would police reports work for you? How about MPOs? Would you also like ER records? Take your fake smiley face and shove it.

Stephanie Graham
>>85207096

Make sure you keep that same energy for Dr. John then because he’s spent the sum total of ZERO minutes with Lori Vallow. So maybe stop being rude and save your fake outrage for Facebook. Everyone has been respectfully disagreeing or agreeing with Lauren and John but you’ve been absolutely rude to people on this platform.

Stephanie Graham
>>85198905

You are absolutely sick! I am a survivor with a court case that I won because I told the truth. I didn’t exaggerate or edit pictures. I allowed the defense to forensically review my pictures, so they didn’t need to file for sanctions, unlike Amber. The defense attorneys in my case had their expert review and none of mine were duplicates or edited, unlike Amber.

Hidden True Crime
>>85183046

We love and respect and value your opinion as well, even when we disagree. Thank you. We do agree on one important thing: They are two toxic people who are both abusive. We are so sorry for the abuse you endured and can understand why the trial would be triggering for you and others.

Stephanie Graham
>>85149653

Amber didn’t lose because the jury ignored evidence, she lost because she lied and exaggerated. She had a mole hill of evidence but made it into a mountain with lies and edited pictures. Then refused to turn over the pictures to be forensically reviewed. That is why the metadata was excluded and that is why sanctions were filed against Amber and her team.

Stephanie Graham
>>85125291

Who said I am defending him. I said I believe he hit her and I also believe she hit him. I stated she was the aggressor in some fights and so was she. Again what lost the case is HER LIES. No one else’s, just her lies. She edited pictures and with the metadata removed it was shown to be taken at the exact same second and every hair wisp of hair was in the same place. She said she didn’t therefore she lied. She said she didn’t sell/leak/give the video to TMZ, but not only did a former TMZ employee refute that testimony, I found on TMZ’s website a video where they make the statement “she shouldn’t have leaked the video” and they went on discussing why they believe HER leaking the video would not help. Actually only Heard has a history of IPV. Depp did recently assault a guy but that is definitely not IPV. Heard is the only person arrested booked and spent a night in jail for IPV/Assault. He admitted to having a drug and alcohol addiction he admitted to consuming drugs. Heard only originally admitted to doing drugs with Johnny twice and she was trying to keep him sober. In cross she admitted to drinking too much wine and mushrooms at Chochella. Also, MDMA at the wedding. She lost because SHE LIED and took ZERO responsibility.

Elaine Gardner

As a survivor and 25+ yr counselor of women AND men, I completely disagree…but there’s more. My abuse began long before my ex put me in the hospital and eventually took my kids overseas and I didn’t see them for 6 years. My mother was diagnosed with BPD MANY years ago…and, like everything else, it was MY fault. According to Her, I destroyed her life when I was born..and everything that went on in her life that was negative- was MY fault. See, I was born with a rare genetic disorder and wasn’t perfect in her opinion. She lied constantly…still does in her 90’s.. While I obviously can’t diagnose Ms Heard; I felt like I was watching/hearing her long before I heard Dr Curry’s diagnosis-which I saw AFTER Ambers testimony. See, I don’t own a tv, can’t stand celebrity culture..and unlike what seems is 99% of the population right now; I’ve never seen either of these people in a movie. THIS case was about DEFAMATION and from what my Sister told me-it’s why Depp lost the UK Case, it wasn’t supposed to be ABOUT abuse. It was a mutually toxic relationship with substance abuse..but Ms heard brought alleged abuse into this legal case making it mistakingly, a guilty or not guilty of abuse instead of defamation. The problem was, she did NOT HAVE EVIDENCE. MOST of the most severe abuse, she didn’t document until days later..and even that evidence was questionable. Hint; when you have a broken nose, suffer cuts from head to toe and are raped with a bottle-YOU GO TO THE HOSPITAL, NOT to a rehearsal for a movie, a dance practice, part of which was filmed, arms, legs, face and back visible…not a single injury visible. I’m sorry…but between her lies, obvious vindictiveness, the amount of planning behind these things necessary to set it up as abuse to hurt Mr Depp..not to mention, he proved the defamation itself..this was NOT a case of “ME TOO” as Ms Heard portrayed it, it was BELIEVE, BUT..INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY…which, last I checked, was still the standard in this country. Are you still going to have cases like mine where my ex’s family had strong ties to both law enforcement and the judicial community in our hometown..and got away with abuse, abusing the children and kidnapping? Yep..NO SYSTEM IS PERFECT. I went into this believing there was abuse..I looked for ANY evidence..and saw someone who reminded me so much of my mother, the melodramatics, the purposeful recordings..the insistence she didn’t abuse substances nor did she participate in the abuse..with mountains of evidence to the contrary. Someone once said “TRUST BUT VERIFY”-THIS should be the basis of belief in abusive situations…otherwise, we’ll have an awful lot of cases using “believe all women OR MEN, evidence be damned” to get wealthy and screw over their exes just out of spite. My ex died of an overdose 10 years ago-after Judges and his family protected him for many years, insisting he did no drugs. He left behind 3 VERY damaged adult Children who went through HELL with him. My daughter is unable to have children of her own because of the abuse and my wonderful Son died last year, partly because of what he went through. I have counseled MANY victims and survivors; but have been warned repeatedly to stop talking about our families dirty laundry. We each have our own story. But with everything in the trial and evidence that wasn’t allowed in (the recording in Australia, other paparazzi photos taken before & after supposed serious injuries..and former friends admitting Nothing is EVER Ambers fault, it’s everyone else with a problem.,)..This case was judged correctly in my opinion, one more thing..my ex abused girlfriends before me and 2 wives after me. Last I checked, that wasn’t the case with Mr Depp. I just hope and pray Ms Heard gets the help she so desperately needs. Also, please have John watch Courtney Tracy, a Psych who also has a BPD diagnosis, known as The Truth Doctor on YouTube. She’s taught me a LOT about BPD.

Traci Schuller
>>85149653

I don't have hatred for "this woman", I have great anger. And I'll go ahead and flip the script and say that with all the evidence that the Depp team had, there's no amount of evidence they could have produced that you would have accepted. You are among the "believe women no matter what" crowd. You know, you can believe a person's story, and then change your mind when the person is proved wrong.

Elaine Gardner

ADDED LATER: I wanted to add One thing after talking with my incredible eldest daughter about this tonight; STRESS the importance of Ms Heard getting help now that she’s a mother. Untreated BPD can cause generation’s of havoc in a family. Before my ex kidnapped my children and took them overseas; I had FINALLY cut things off as far as access to the children for my mother. She was constantly telling my kids “go tell your mother she’s an idiot”, “your mother is the worst mother in the world”, “your mother lies about everything, she’s sick”, “tell your mother she doesn’t know what she’s talking about and doesn’t deserve you kids”. Much more. My mother rarely had anything to do with my younger children because she said they were “just like their parents and will grow up, hopefully in an institution somewhere far from me”. When my daughter visited a few weeks ago..she had tried, as an adult, to at least be on speaking terms with her only living grandparent. She didn’t remember my mother saying those things and after talking to her once about 15 years ago, came back to me and insisted I had everything wrong and maybe I HAD just imagined the physical and emotional abuse. My mother is like that. She can fool you the first time, but she can’t keep up the facade..and my eldest learned the truth not long after..and it got worse when my Dad died, called me and my kids, 2 days before, apologizing for my mothers abuse and telling us all to just cut her out after he was gone. My mother lied about his memorial, caused a scene causing my Dads sister and my kids to walk out rather than fight with her. When she was here last month, my daughter and I had a long talk, about how my mother had been trying to break our relationship for many years…about how it HAD affected us for awhile; and was my mother even capable of saying “I love you”, “I’m sorry” or “I was wrong”. No, she’s not. My mother has led a VERY unhappy, angry and abusive life. She spent my inheritance from our grandmother on my brother; first paying his legal fees for all the trouble he got into when young…(of course, his drug and criminal problems were ALL my fault), then buying him 3 multimillion homes which were foreclosed on..numerous other material things. She spoiled him rotten because, in her eyes, HE was perfect. Then, YEARS of constant screaming, often physical abuse towards my Dad coupled with substance abuse problems for years. We lived in an upscale neighborhood and my grandmother had paid my way in a private academic school before she died. She knew my mother never would. She had TRIED to protect me when I was young, actually taking me back to her home when she saw the outside locks my mother had installed on my door. My mothers VERY few friends repeatedly told me to cut things off with her, STOP trying to make her happy..she wasn’t going to change. Well, she didn’t and her best friend of many years, who had cut out my mother herself when she found out how 25 years ago, my mother & father, in their 60’s, drove 9hrs to my home, wrapped me in duct tape, put me in the car & said I was divorcing my 2nd husband whether I wanted to or now and we were going to take him and his family for every penny we could get. When I said absolutely NOT..My mother tried to shove me out of the car on the highways telling me to K myself. When we got to my parents home, she called police & EMS, Said I was suicidal and they were having me committed. Unfortunately for her, I knew both the officers, EMS AND my friends at the psych center I had worked at for 10+ years. (Completing an earlier thought; my mother was known to neighbors, people at my school, at church, local doctors..as “The wicked witch of the east”..her temper, screaming and penchant for grabbing my hair and flinging me around like a rag doll…it was like a very real bad fairytale. Most everyone also knew it was as if she had 2 opposite personalities). They also either knew of or knew my mother. Charlie got her into some testing on the premise it was to have ME committed. She really thought Charlie, a psychiatrist the same age as my parents, was on her side. After several days of testing and interviews, my parents thought I was still there in the hospital, (I wasn’t, I stayed with old friends in town), Charlie first tried to talk to my Dad alone and told him my mother needed help and even at her age, she still deserved to have some help and happiness.. My Dad told him she’ll never go along with it, that it would be him and me that bore her wrath. My mother? She had to be removed by security after tearing Charlie’s office up. This was a late 60’s, very wealthy, supposedly prim and proper “Catholic”..who, of course, then deepened her anger at me and my Dad. I understand that not everyone with BPD is the same. But even her brother, my Uncle, a Priest, had to cut away from her when she demanded he choose between us. When someone goes for years without or refusing treatment—it effects everyone around them. When it’s as serious as my mother, it destroys lives. So when I agree with Dr Curry, understand where I am coming from. I’ve seen and experienced this before. If Amber goes without treatment, continuing to try and put the blame on everyone else…others WILL suffer. She has a 1 year old child, born by surrogacy, who deserves a healthy environment.

L.A.

Sadly, you're wasting your time on these people. I've quit the patreon support. They support narcissists like Amber Heard -- like your mother and mine. They're enablers.

Stephanie Graham

I would love Dr. John to weigh in on not only the additional testimony of Dr. Curry and Dr. Hughes but also Dr. Spiegel and Depp’s own therapist. Are their testimonies normal? For instance Dr. Spiegal and the goldwater rule, Dr. Hughes testifying like a client’s self report as fact, odd documentation and her incorrect documentation/notes. I say incorrect b/c she indicated on AH’s intimate relationships that the line drawn indicated the individuals on the other side were “friends”. Those two individuals were James Franco and Elon Musk. She had a relationship with Elon for over a year so that line drawn can’t be true. More plausible to me is the line indicated after the JD relationship. I’ll also add her session was well after the Heard/Musk relationship ended. Dr. Curry stated most of the tests Dr. Hughes used were check lists and self reports. Also I’d love Dr. John’s analysis of Amber Heard’s behavior in her divorce deposition vs in court. What could have changed to make her this animated in court vs her not even engaged and absolutely rude, eating, and smirking through her deposition. Also why would Amber lie? There are very easy provable lies she told in court why would she still lie?

Stephanie Graham
>>85330673

I wouldn’t say they support narcissists but the fact they are allowing an individual to bully people who are DV survivors on here plus their bias and refusal to even concede that Amber lied multiple times and their lack of acknowledgment that she has also been arrested and booked for assault is quite concerning. It seems as if they also relied heavily on Dr. Hughes’s very odd testimony which she, an expert, was testifying that abuse, Amber self reported to her as fact.

amanda
>>85156481

“Proof please”???? Seriously!?! This is the kind of bullshit that keeps victims from coming forward!!! You’re sick. Truly sick. Everyone here has been having a pretty respectful conversation, regardless of their difference in opinions, but you’re so hell bent on being right that you insist on shaming everyone that feels differently. What the hell is wrong with you!?

Isabel G.

Please can you do a deep dive on power dynamics, litigation abuse, coercive control, DV and the stages leading to homicide? Seems like a perfect opportunity to educate, to have that conversation, as it seems to me like it's desperately needed. This could be a perfect textbook case and example. It'll be hard as many people don't seem to want to hear it, but I think that most people here have enough respect for you to listen and it'll be one small silver lining to this horrific smear campaign and revenge that JD took on a woman who had the audacity to leave him and get a restraining order to protect herself. Almost a rerun of Gabby Petito. It probably needs to be pointed out again and again. It's very hard for most people to wrap their head around. The key to this is to scrutinize him not her. Put aside everything she has said. Then go and dig up every audio and text message of his. Miss nothing out. His association with Marilyn Manson, history of jealous, controlling behaviour, trashing hotel rooms, vicious temper, addiction issues, and beating up other men. He's back in court in July for hitting a location manager. Read and listen to everything you can find. See if you can get a clear view of just who this guy really is. Then, look at the evidence she has submitted. Finally, listen to her testimony again. It'll all fall into place and finally make sense. Thank you so much for having the integrity and courage to do this in such an intelligent, sensitive and empathetic way.

Betsy Sue
>>85125291

Johnny Depp has been sued by a person who *alleges* Johnny assaulted him. We have seen no proof yet. I have read accounts from witnesses that it is completely untrue and that the man making the allegations was harassing a homeless woman who wandered onto the set and Johnny was telling him to stop. This is not a criminal case. Anybody can make allegations in civil court. We will see what evidence this man has that Johnny assaulted him and we can decide who is telling the truth at that time. I suspect this man got his feelings hurt and jumped on the "Let's sue Johnny" bandwagon. We will see how it turns out.

Betsy Sue
>>85149653

Thank you for taking off your arm brace. You said everything for me and saved me some time. Excellent post!

Elaine Gardner
>>85330673

The more that continues to come out, things that weren’t allowed in court..you’ll have to forgive me but due to some health issues, I missed some testimony and don’t know if that letter, about 5 days before AH filed for the TRO, informed-(or had someone inform) TMZ, And gave the first report EVER of ANY DV in the relationship..her attorneys sent what I would personally say was a blackmail letter to JDs team-he was in Europe. In the letter, it claimed SHE was demanding $50k/mo for LIFE, the Vehicle with all expenses & maintenance paid and 3 of the multimillion $ Penthouses, all taxes, insurance & upkeep paid, for life..and a few other things. The letter WARNED that JD had 4 DAYS to agree with everything; sign the papers OR that AH would go public with supposed abuse. A few days ago, I heard audio that apparently wasn’t allowed in of her pleading with JD for forgiveness, insisting that SHE never wanted to make the accusations, but her attorneys told her that if she didn’t; that she would be evicted from the penthouses along with her friends...she kept trying to convince him it was the attorneys claiming DV, NOT HER. 🤯. I’m sorry, but that and so many other things in the trial-and now afterwards. Her interview this morning..as a survivor, all I could think of was how after I was finally able to get my kids back from overseas, and our home state FINALLY relented and pressed charges (which he never faced bc he stayed in Saudi until alcohol and cocaine for over 30 years..AND KARMA, did as expected & he OD’d)- I had media wanting to do interviews, nevermind talk to ANYONE while holding my head up and/or smiling. I NEVER tried to blame everyone else for everything that happened and to this day, still feel guilty I couldn’t protect my children. Since technology grew; I’ve had other media, podcasters and YouTubers want to talk to me. I never even THOUGHT of saying yes. I changed my name and if someone tracks me down, I deny it’s me. We just wanted to be left alone and attempt to rebuild our lives and relationships. What happened in the 90’s and slightly afterward-that was another life that’s far too painful to revisit. Even talking to counselors..I can’t get through even a minute without breaking down. I’ve only been able to write about it since he died..I was still terrified. Also, both personally and counseling other victims/survivors (we are ALL survivors when we come out the other side ALIVE. The rest is up to us); neither I, nor do I remember any clients, changing the numbers of times they were abused, the length of the abuse nor the types or injuries from abuse. My face still shows the scars as do some other areas. I had both police and medical records, although with his brother, the Chief sheriffs deputy for our area,-reports at first kept mysteriously disappearing. I was blessed because as much pull as his family had (his dad was a charter member of FDLE from the 50’s and played poker every week with our family court judge); I STILL had a LOT of valuable support in both law enforcement and my medical community. While I understand there’s NEVER ANY absolutes in a case or with a survivor of SA/DV..AH, her documented behavior, records like that “blackmail” letter, and behavior NOW, are SO far outside the norm..I honestly can’t understand how anyone, a survivor or professional could be blinded as to exactly what is going on here. Unless, of course, you aren’t looking at ALL the information..or just don’t want to admit that MAYBE they mistaken. I have NEVER claimed Mr Depp was an innocent party in this mutually toxic relationship. But the ways AH, her team and supporters are handling this is what WILL damage our movement…one more thing, through my attorney sister and my incredible original DV Counselor turned attorney back home; I’ve also been able to speak to her and 2 other attorneys who deal solely with DV Family court cases. All 3 agree with that last statement and said in most of their cases there’s little to no evidence such as photos or videos. When a survivor is being honest and not accusing someone out of either vindication or for profit..it’s the consistency, realism in emotion and often gut feeling of the judge-as well as other nuanced factors-that lead to Justice for our fellow survivors. I’ll also be unsubscribing.

Stephanie Graham
>>85330673

I know this isn’t an airport so I don’t need to announce my departure but I also unsubscribed. I am disappointed that they have kept hateful & triggering comments up from someone, and I’m sure the comments are still there because that person, Katie agrees with them.

Nutmegtella

I have to wonder if you watched the trial or just watched highlights from the media. You have confused so much I wonder. I could break it down as to your inaccuracies but I know it's a non starter. It really seems you've confused your own abuse and this case.

Jessica Garrison

I am astounded. The VICTIM in this case WAS vindicated-Johnny Depp. How this is lost in the commentary and comment section is beyond. A true reflection of how powerful cultural norms and biases can color/cloud the assertions made of those even in the mental heath profession.

Naomi Brewster

I love your work and enjoy your deeper analysis of drivers of the human condition which might influence behaviours. Also I've learnt a lot from both you and Dr John to help me understand myself and give me topics to research in my own therapy and development. So please take my response to your post on AH v JD from this attitude of deepest respect. I watched a lot of this trial - where possible (it did go for 6 weeks and I probably saw a solid two weeks of it). I started watching the trial without any particular preference for either AH or JD and came to believe J was the one who had suffered the abuse - even though he clearly wasn’t perfect or above reproach. For your comments about ALL abused people now needing to fear that if they don’t have proof they can’t come forward - I don't think so. This wasn’t a case about all abused people. This was a case involving two people, both of whom are clearly damaged but where one person in particular clearly set out to ruin another and continue a clear pattern of abuse. AH was given the opportunity to speak during the trial and she spoke a lot - days and days of just her talking - and she wasn't believable - she was histrionic and hyperbolic. Even though I wondered how the jury came to the conclusion of 'malice' in the end, I also applauded the outcome showing that the jury believed JD and clearly did not believe AH. I hope they both seek counselling to heal the wounds that lead them to find each other in the first place. But also - in speaking to your worry of the affects that this will have on other victims of abuse - a week or two after the AH v JD case I watched the court case of Danielle Redlick - her testimony was so entirely believable and truthful that my heart just went out to her as she described what happened on the stand and even though, clearly, she had made mistakes - she was believed and acquitted. So I still think that victims of abuse can and will be heard and supported - but people can also pick up BS on their radar pretty well too.