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PATREON PODCAST - A Julie Rowe Story (Patreon)

Published:
2022-08-07 17:00:51
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

One woman's experience watching her husband distance himself from her family after exploring Julie Rowe's teachings.

We care about understanding Julie Rowe at Hidden True Crime. We believe she and Chad were major leaders in the belief system and cult that led to multiple murders. Julie continues to preach her messages today about multiple probations, past spouses, and even a workshop on zombies. 

Lori and Alex were big fans of Julie Rowe's books before meeting Chad. 

Julie Rowe had been told that Tammy Daybell was supposed to die, and called Chad's house to speak to Emma Daybell the morning Tammy was declared dead. 

Girl on Fire explains how Julie Rowe divided spouses, and declared body guards and other men as being her husbands. 

Julie Rowe predicted her own husband would die before their divorce. 

We've been asked: Why Julie Rowe? We think she is a very important piece in this crime. 

You'll notice at times some sound seems "off". By request of the interviewee, we have disguised her voice, and it wasn't easy to make "perfect". Thank heavens for some behind-the-scenes Hidden editors in our community who helped! I couldn't have done it without them. 

Comments

Cathryn

I’m incredibly late in listening to this Podcast, but I really would like to commend the speaker for her bravery and compassion. I don’t believe, in fact I know, I would not have been so kind to my spouse.

CBell

What a wonderful interview.

Valorie Dodart

Have you all heard of Teal Swan. She seems to be Julie Rowe-esque. What are your thoughts?

Chiara

Wow! This lady was very brave to come on and discuss this. I wish she would have discussed why she did not attend these meetings with her husband. However, I hope she takes steps to protect herself financially just in case!!!

Nora Ann

Thank you for this interview it was very enlightening on how people can twist things in order to have things their way. I do think sometimes when we meet someone it can feel like we have known them forever type of feelings or somehow knew them before. I’m not sure what that is called. I have felt this with many people, both men and women, but to believe you were married to someone in a pass life is a little different. I can see how if you make yourself believe in it that it would make it easier and okay to be with the other person sexually and have an affair, and I think that Many people who follow Julie think that way. I feel very bad for this woman, she is handling things way better than I would. I feel very bad for her children, they must be so confused, what with the pandemic and lock down, and doing home church, to seeing or feeling the change of their dad and home life and then attending different churches with their mom and their dad completely dropping out of church, and the depression and stuff that must affect their parents and the kids themselves must be so hard. I do believe the pandemic and lockdown changed the world and the way we see things. That being said, kids being kids think they are the center of the world and have all these powers and when parents break up or have issues they feel like they somehow caused them. I hope the dad gets a grip and comes around and can make their lives back on track or better than it was before all this. To Julie Rowe I would say look what you have brought on. I heard a interview that Julie did a few years ago and everything she said reminded me of how Lori speaks,” she knows it and can’t deny it,” the way they both say it was eerie. Good luck to this strong women, and her family. She is much kinder than I would be.

Sue Komernicky

Thank you for this interview! She seems very grounded to me, but it is scary how her husband got “sucked” in with these beliefs. It is almost like he seeking permission to believe in Julie’s propaganda to maybe have an affair, etc. The interviewee seems very strong. I wish her the best. I hope her husband realizes at some point she is the best thing to happen to him & stops believing in Julie Rowe.

Elissa Hansen-Daniels

There is a lot of evidence that Joseph Smith had 33/34 wives. He secretly married a few before polygamy was introduced. Including women who were already married. One was 14. He was a total fraud.

Diana Ross

Thank you, this was interesting. I really enjoy hearing directly from people who are dealing with these beliefs. It would be even more interesting if you were able to interview more people who believe in Julie's and Chads teachings. I gather they're not jumping up and down yelling ME ME, interview ME!

Lauren Rencher

Valorie I totally agree with you about Teal Swan. Also, it’s hard to understand how people hear Julie Rowe and aren’t immediately put off. To me her videos are super strange and it seems apparent that there are some mental health issues going on and they are really hard to watch.

CC

Wow. He believes Julie is a prophet. I think she makes a great point about the MMP makes their marriages not feel as special.

CC

Is this stuff at the end similar to the theories of the Stoddard crew?

Lynnette coster

I appreciate her Julie Rowe perspectives, but her theorizing about Joseph Smith lost me. Oof.

Tamara Wakeman Sukohl

Interesting interview. Just think, Chad and his group elevated themselves above Julie Rowe, making her a kind of scapegoat. I understand why there have been so many divorces in these groups. How could you resist the excitement of being with your true soulmate.

Kate FitzGerald

Lindsay Hansen Park (Year of Polygamy podcast) has an interesting 3 part episode (#183 Talking with God) interviewing a man who had prophetic visions. The roots of the visions, while they seemed so real to him, were in mental and emotional problems. Park touches on the parallels to the Rowe-Daybell stories. The dark undertow of these beliefs that Rowe and the Daybells espouse lead to such tragic situations: alienation of loved ones, lost touch with reality, murder. As much as I sometimes think of her as a buffoon, Rowe and those like her present a real and present danger. In my old age, though I believe in God and have enormous respect for the version of Jesus Christ I was taught as a Roman Catholic child, I have come to view religion as more a detriment than help in our society. While doing some late night rabbit holing, I heard in a podcast that the LDS Church referred to the Roman Catholic Church as the Whore of Babylon ( it doesn’t anymore). I laughed out loud. My church also thinks of itself as “the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.” The hubris of such certainty from any religion!

Hidden True Crime
>>89158667

There is so. much. evidence. I also don't think the LDS church enjoys admitting, and talking a lot about Joseph's polygamy, so I'm not sure they would pretend he was a polygamist when he wasn't. ...just some of my recent thoughts, but I am listening. This conspiracy is creeping in on a lot of orthodox LDS members.

Hidden True Crime
>>89162946

I'm so glad you enjoy the interviews! I'm ready to get back on the interview train, so I hope to deliver more soon. :)

Hidden True Crime
>>89166182

The Stoddards strongly believe Joseph Smith DID practice polygamy, and speak out about this growing belief that he did not, and the idea that Brigham Young changed his journal, and participated in killing Joseph Smith. BUT ... Joel Gurvine's letter on Hidden True Crime's YouTube channel states this same belief. He and his wife left the church due to believing the LDS church lied to them about Joseph's polygamy. Julie Rowe is also preaching a very similar stance. She is anti LDS church, calling President Nelson reptilian (Just like Matthew coleman called his children reptilain) but Julie still believes Joseph Smith is a prophet, and that he did not practice polygamy. Denver Snuffer believes the mainstream church lost their way, but still believes that Joseph was a prophet. (I don't think he believes Joseph practiced polygamy either). [Btw, just learned my dad knew Denver years ago! He gave me some tea! ] There was division happening on this matter at the FIRM expo Hannah Stoddard stood up and told everyone how evil this conspiracy is, and then promoted polygamy and told wives to be better wives to their husbands. It was a weird talk. Might have it recorded. Anyway, one thing I'm seeing is a division among members about how they see Joseph Smith. I personally see it as confirmation bias. If you want to believe Joseph Smith is a prophet, but that he didn't practice polygamy--This belief system is for you!

Becky Carter
>>89158667

I liked this lady’s interview as far as her experience involving Julie Rowe. She was very brave to share her experience. However, when you asked her what her discrepancy with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I, being an active member, was offended. This has nothing to do with Julie Rowe, her beliefs, or the things she was trying to preach and profess herself. This was advertised as one woman’s experience after her husband explored Julie Rowe’s teachings. If this is going to turn into a delve into Mormon history and what is true and what is not, I’m out. I expect a higher quality, respectful program from you and have always felt it has been. There was no need to ask her what her thought and feelings were now about the church. That had no relevance with the purpose of her interview. Very disappointed at the turn your interview took, Lauren.

Tracy Warberg Holliday

Your guest today is a very wise woman. I like her view of marriage and her views of her husband’s emotional affair. Fantastic interview.

Evie

Interesting interview giving perspective on ways Julie Rowe's teachings impact families and marriages. I was interested that they got "sucked in" by learning how to be a prepper in case of disaster (thinking it never hurts to be prepared...) which opened the door to the other weird stuff.

Hidden True Crime
>>89158667

Becky, you are a beloved hidden gem and I’m sorry you felt this was a wrong move from me. I genuinely didn’t know and was curious. That’s why I asked. Im I wonder if you would have been as offended if her answer had been different, and if she stated she was still active? I just wonder if her answer was what bothered you, and not as much my question? I actually assumed she was actively participating in the church from the way she described her beliefs, but I found it interesting when she said she wasn’t, and her reasoning was because of “lies from the LDS church”. That led me further down a rabbit hole I’ve been in, mostly because I know Julie Rowe has been spreading this theory— that Joseph Smith didn’t practice polygamy, and the LDS church is lying about it. That is where my follow-up question came from. I was wondering if the lies she was referring to were about polygamy. I was trying to connect some dots and see if I my thinking was accurate. I realized I was talking to a woman whose husband was likely showing her information he is gathering from his Julie rowe groups. Maybe that’s not accurate, but that’s just me being honest with where my mind went during that moment. My curiosity was in full swing … I then connected Joel Gurvine very quickly! He was Julie Rowe’s bodyguard and someone who attempted to have an affair with “Girl on Fire”, and in his statement found on Hidden True Crime’s YouTube channel, Joel shares he left the LDS church for the same reason! He also showed his continuous support for Julie Rowe in that same statement. I don’t judge/see this woman any differently from if she is still actively going to church or not going to church, but I do appreciate her honest story and answers as I attempt to peel back the layers of the onion. I value her personal journey. This idea that Joseph Smith did not practice polygamy, and that Brigham Young murdered Joseph, is gaining steam among orthodox LDS members. It’s surprising to witness. Those at the FIRM expo were very divided on the matter. It was discussed a lot. So where is this belief stemming from? Is it coming from a popular video that is making rounds in different circles? Is it coming from Julie Rowe? Denver Snuffer? (These are two people who Lori loved, and she read their books before she met Chad). Would Chad start to believe something similar? Is this a common theory/belief among the Preparing a People crowd? The gateway drug to stranger Daybell beliefs? Clearly, the rabbit hole is deep. I’m going to be down there for a while, but in no way was my question meant to be about her personal spirituality, or to judge. I was attempting to find out where she is now in her faith, to grasp if anything has changed, and better understand her life and how this experience has affected her in different ways. [that’s just a bit of my thought process as I interviewed her during these questions.]

Jukie g

Is this new?

Cami Hurst

Great interview. I caught some terms that scream Remnant Movement (Snuffer). Home church, Joseph polygamy denial, efforts to restore Joseph’s fundamental ideas, etc. I would have asked her if they read “The Second comforter” as a Daybell connection.

Tad Auty

I would’ve been interested to know how young these two were married- a lot of LDS people marry way before maturity as an adult, and I frequently hear of people regretting missed youth or life experience. Wonder if Julie’s influence is especially tempting for people who may not have lived much life before marriage and feel like they’re missing out on something. Either way, this interviewee sounds very wise and patient. I hope she doesn’t waste too many years waiting for him to want commitment again- if only she had a crystal ball to know. I have known women who gave space to a menopausal husband wanting freedom- for some it hasn’t worked. He never returned. But I do know of some who, when the novelty wore off, realised their family was more valuable than they realised and the shiny new toy wasn’t all it was cracked up to be. And they saw that because their wife was being like this lady- trying to be understanding and patient and not dictating what someone else believes. I really wish them well whether they find each other again, or she can be free to not try to understand him so much and just coparent. Religion can really cause issues if people dig in deep to their beliefs- especially if both do, but it sounds like this lady is very balanced and careful.

Erica A. Zwick
>>89172307

Fantastic! Don't people see the irony in churches declaring themselves The One True Church?

Erica A. Zwick

Lauren, I have been trying to figure out the dominant church history narrative vs the reconstructed narrative debate, but I cannot seem to get a handle on it. Can you explain it...for dummies? Thanks.

Erica A. Zwick

Isn't there documented evidence that Joseph Smith was a polygamist? What is the argument of those who deny he was a polygamist?

Julie Holden

What a fascinating interview! This woman is very smart, and strong. I hope her husband sees what a gift his wife & children are. Also, I couldn't help but think of Tammy when I was listening to this interview. How much of this exact type of pain, distance, and alienation did Chad put Tammy through? Her experience must have had at least some similarities — watching Chad grow close with several other women, finding out the beliefs Julie Rowe & Co were spouting, being left out of more and more of Chad's activities. And his ultimate betrayal, it goes without saying, is heartbreaking. 💔 Thank you for sharing this interview, HTC. It provides yet another lens into the fringe culture of JRowe & Co.

Madea Thinks

Great interview! You are so gracious to your guests. I’d love to see your cartoon bubbles. It’s awfully hard to listen to without making judgments, but I will keep them to myself. I do want to say I hesitated joining this patreon for a long time. Content like this makes me glad I did. Also, like Julie, I thought of Tammy.

Hidden True Crime
>>89314939

this would be an interesting conversation, and maybe one soon where John interviews me, and include my visit to the FIRM EXPO.

Hidden True Crime
>>89316472

EDITS: I hit post too quickly, and am still editing in some thoughts. Great Patreon episode idea though! SHORT ANSWER: There is documented evidence that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy and that he hid the practice from those outside the church, as well as members inside the church. ... My experience growing up LDS is that this history was not talked about a lot, and is uncomfortable for many LDS members. ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS: We had many books growing up, and while my family was active in our LDS faith, we had what was considered "anti-Mormon" literature on our bookshelves. We just considered published books "literature". In Fawn Brodie's book "No man knows my history" written in 1945, Brodie emphasizes Smith's polygamy. I recall being surprised by this when I read it as a young girl. I didn't like to consider the prophet a polygamist. The history of polygamy, and it being tied to Joseph Smith, has not served the LDS church well in the PR department. This subject is often used to discount the LDS faith and its founder. (IMO) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Man_Knows_My_History In other words: While the LDS church does not deny the evidence of Joseph practicing polygamy, I don't see the LDS church celebrating Joseph's polygamy, or even considering it a subject they want to openly discuss. It's uncomfortable. If this part of Mormon history--Joseph practicing polygamy-- could go away, I don't think LDS leaders would mind. This is why I personally find it surprising some mainstream LDS members believe the LDS church has been selling a false narrative about Joseph's polygamy. I don't think it's anything the LDS church is proud of, or would lie to their members about ... (IMO)

Dawna Quittmeyer

She needs to read “in sacred loneliness” by Todd Compton. It is a book documenting all of Joseph smith’s pleural wives. His wife Emma was the 22 or 23rd to be sealed to him because he wAs keeping it from her.

Crystal Swannack

Wow this is the definition of Satan lulling you away to carnal security, and the definition of being decieved with things that he convinces you are good and of God. I hope everyone hears this. It can be applied to many things and we can really learn from this story

Crystal Swannack

I would like to remind this young lady that all God has ever had to work with is imperfect people. We are still people, even in the church there's going to be mistakes just like in our life. Expecting the church to be perfect would be like expecting a person to be perfect. Also, if you really truly have a testimony, the church should really be about you and Jesus Christ and not about other members or things they have done. I heard this when I joined to the church and it's always been true, the number one reason people leave the church is because of other members of the church. Even if those things did happen in the church, we need to see the church as what does it do now and what kind of fruit did it bring forward even though there was surely imperfect people and imperfect leaders. Where we are now is what really matters and where we are going. There will always be in perfect people that's all God has to work with If we think about what happened with Peter, did that mean everything that happened before or after when Christ came was null and void and everybody should run away because of what Peter did?

Crystal Swannack

Gosh I can't get over the fact that people are staying away from the church because of imperfections of people even people 200 years ago when in the Scriptures it says judge them by their fruits, meaning the church. If all of us stayed away because of something imperfect whether by members or leaders there would be no church there would be no restoration there would be no baptisms that would be sad. And please please no this is not against the person you interviewed. She seems like a lovely lady who's figuring things out for her very self just like you should

Katie Marlowe
>>89240452

Well, if he doesn’t know what a patient, committed wife has now, I’d bet the farm he’ll figure it out eventually. Hopefully before it’s too late.

Tad Auty
>>90068885

I think most people I know who leave a church it’s because they no longer believe it’s true and they’ve investigated other evidence which led them to see that. Sometimes people seeing abuse in the church or cover ups or “human sins “ of the human leaders etc, will give people concerns about the leadership or their powers or if they’re actually hearing from god. But in my experience, growing up Catholic, there are people who have left the church because of the way they handled abuse ( or didn’t handle it ). But others leave because they just no longer believe in the doctrine of the authorities and see it as fairy stories. We are frequently told that god speaks to our leaders, or that being church goers means we will be more moral - but if we look at the statistics on child abuse, or other crime , believers are actually committing more crimes than nonbelievers. So I can completely understand if people are told their church or way of life is the most true and moral, I can see why people would want to leave or have doubts when they see evidence contrary to what they’ve been told. Plus are surrounded by people committing more crime, than the unbelievers do. I think the bottom line is people are responsible for their own crimes- blaming Satan means some people avoid admitting their faults or doing anything to work on it other than praying. Some churches have higher statistics on certain forms of abuse - some states are very high on abuse. But as I am saying too much and just trying to make the point that people don’t always leave because simply they see a few e sinners. It is frequently about doctrine and evidence- but definitely if they see a culture of abuse or covering abuse, not reporting, etc. Some people leave and still believe in a deity. Humans are human but if they’re not emotionally adult enough to follow evidence or their conscience and personal ethics- if they only follow the human leaders- it can get very dicey. Regardless of the group. But some cultures have extra issues. Like we did with priests and the church covering up- my mum remains Catholic , but can openly criticise the church and what it did. She can still believe in Jesus but she won’t excuse the crimes of the church. But to her the church is the people and not the building or the authorise. Most people I know left their religions because they were more ethical and logical than the doctrine they’d been taught. Others can juggle that more. But some are just sneaky and act righteous while committing terrible deeds they blame on the devil. One thing this podcasts shows is the danger of believing or putting others in a position to dictate to you what is true.

Katie Marlowe

I found this woman to be very compelling in her apparent honesty and open-mindedness, not to mention her patience with and commitment to her husband. My heart goes out to her -and actually to her husband as well, since he seems to be exhibiting the confusion of someone who has been gaslighted. (“He doesn’t know what’s real anymore.”) She is so intelligent, and her goodness is obvious. But, if I could, I would only suggest to her this: ask more questions, and get the answers. Particularly about what exactly he is/was doing in the groups she was not welcome to join. Communication is critical to connection in a marriage.

Tad Auty
>>89240452

It’s a tough one- maybe he is being true to himself now and just wouldn’t be that guy he was before. I guess he’s being honest at least. But I just hope he can at least commit to his kids and coparenting in a healthy way- and I hope his wife finds happiness whether that’s as a single person or someone with a partner. Personally I think she has earned her way out if she gets to the point she’s had enough.

Lisa Spears

I'm sorry but I just couldn't take this like oh well I'll just wait it out! I think it's fair to say if I'm not welcome neither are you!! He's enjoying this attention but he needs to understand that he's a married man and if your not welcome than he has no business being there. I don't think this is about some crazy teaching this is infidelity and you should value yourself enough to say that if he wants his marriage than he needs to act like it because there are plenty of men that want what he has and you owe it to yourself to expect a husband that values you.

Joanna Mulvaney

I absolutely believe that Julie Rowe and Eric and josh etc get together on Saturday nights and watch things like “eternal love of the dragon Lord” and Taiwanese puppet shows. Lots of bored middle aged men and women looking for some excitement and spice. Get on Fetlife instead of Julie’s magic hands gang.

Mary Wall

THIS makes me sick. I have to share that: I was raised Catholic and am a Christian , I believe in reincarnation, and, on the Enneagram, I am a Challenger. So, here goes: I am really wondering if ALL/MOST of the LDS male and female excuse for cheating, leaving, is just like the rest of society. Totally hormonal reactions . I get the strong sense of misogyny, and it saddens my heart. And trust and believe, women can certainly be as misogynistic as men, especially if they were raised to feel inferior or having a duty. I wish I could empower these women! I respect beliefs, I feel I have a great relationship with God, but........ HELLO, can we openly discuss the power of hormones/sex, the irrational explanation/excuses used for cheating on a spouse under the guise of "faith" (how convenient), and mostly, how powerful we women are!???? I am ranting, yes, and so very sad for so many hurt women in denial and adulterous men NOT calling it what it is: LUST Sorry if I offended anyone. I respect faiths. I loathe the use of religion to stifle (or kill or hurt) others. For our guest: you are spot on! I am validating what you see what you know in your heart. Xo