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EARLY ACCESS- HEATHER DAYELL PART THREE (Patreon)

Published:
2022-11-13 03:15:00
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2026-06
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Content

In this episode Heather Daybell shares a bit of her faith journey. Many have been asking questions, and she chose to tell her honest story with care and compassion.  

Comments

Cindy

Listening! Thank you for pt3.

Stephanie Budge

⭐️⭐️⭐️Please go take a look at the announcement post prior to this video. Hidden True Crime has some exciting limited edition merchandise that will only be available a short time⭐️⭐️⭐️

Cindy

Got my sunlight sun tshirt in red!

Erica A. Zwick

Stay in line? You bet! The church makes it very clear: obey obey obey. Keep smiling, don't ask any questions, do as you're told. Above all, do not think for yourself.

Paula Marie Cornell

thank you ~ the three of you ~ I’m praying ~ best most effective action and promise ~ I send you all love

Julie Holden

I'm here. Watching now. Heather is amazing.

Erica A. Zwick

I find it quite wrong that a person could be a member of a religion for years and have basic truths and facts about said religion withheld from them. The church is deceptive.

Erica A. Zwick
>>95523387

For example: The church converted millions of people based on a lie, namely,that Native Americans were the descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel that migrated to the Americas around 600 B.C. However, DNA tests have contradicted the teachings of the Mormon Church. The Mormon Church has disregarded DNA evidence as irrelevant.

Michelle Matas

I love that Heather is grappling over this, what great questions she has. How can you NOT love your child regardless if he is gay or not

Michelle Matas
>>95522704

There are people here, I thought I was all alone here, there isn't the rolling chat. I love that Heather is grappling over her religion, said that wrong,

Amy N.

I want to name every wooden spoon I have, Heather. My heart breaks for the intense gaslighting she experienced through all of this. I’m sure the last thing she wanted to be was right. I think she was born a truth-teller and could not stop asking questions even if she tried. Heather, thank you for sharing your truth. You are a woman of true grit and grace. I hope you can feel the love and support this community has for you. You, Ma’am, are a badass.

Toni Quilico-Kriebel

Thanks for your honesty and candor Heather. I've loved all 3 parts of your interview. This case made me 2nd guess my Christian religion because of the crazy things I learned about the Mormon religion. I stopped going and giving all my time to the church. There are other ways to give and do God's work and I do that with my therapy dog. I feel more fulfilled helping children or adults that need her than serving all that time with the kid's ministry or singing in the worship band.

Cindy

A group of us growing up had similar revelations growing up Catholic, Evangelical and Baptist. As young females, we'd start to question the beliefs systems and would get that patronizing blow off or criticism of questioning our faith. It was awful. My uncle, a Jesuit priest, comes from a extremely progressive order in Catholicism + he was from an abusive immigrants home where his sisters were treated as second class. He couldn't provide any logical explanation for the man made rules of the religion or the Vatican.

Nadine R Hansen

People who don't have answers are afraid of questions. Especially people in power who can't bring themselves to say "I don't know."

Michelle Matas

I love what Heather is putting out there, BUT it's religion that has gone off course, not God, not God at all. Something to consider, I think people are always confusing religion and relationship, and then blaming God, and because people create religion to honor God, it's God's fault. I personally don't involve myself with religion, although I go to church, and I do have a "personal relationship" with God. I think its wise that Heather seeks truth, keep seeking

Nadine R Hansen

I don't know if today's Church of the Firstborn is the same as the one in about the 60s and 70s, but the old "Church of the Firstborn of the Fullness of Times" was a LeBaron family polygamous offshoot. I think it was headquartered in Mexico. I remember them passing out pamphlets at stake conference in Southern California.

Michelle Matas

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE THIS A THUMBS UP

Vicki

👋🙂

Janet1Pirate

My heart breaks for her and her family and all those that Chad hurt.

ShaRee

Riveting. Great interview. I hope Heather feels respected for her feelings and where she is. I’m LDS and believe in so much. I struggle with so much. I focus on my relationship with The Savior for now. I agree with Heather, we all need to try to understand each other more, less judging and less hurting one another and Love each other.

Brenda Brandstatt

This beautiful woman has touched my heart with her intelligence, courage, and compassion. Truth is. And when Truth speaks, it's so very powerful. Thank you.

Tad Auty
>>95523387

I think most religions give only some info at the start and the common members of the church have very little knowledge of the history or organisations within their church. Some of those old books are locked away for only the highest of clergy or historians to see. And some of the bureaucracy of the church is kept very seperate from the people in the congregation.

Tad Auty
>>95523593

Only religion can make someone turn on their beloved child cos they’re gay. Maybe some other cultures too but when seemingly decent parents sit by while their kids are demonised it’s so hard on the kids. Very high suicides in Utah and Idaho sadly due to kids with families who love them, but not allowed under the umbrella of the church with their family. Simple because they want to find love and get married like so many people do. I’m glad things are changing- in all sections of culture. It’s becoming far less ok to reject your gay child.

Tad Auty
>>95524181

I’m an atheist but still liked the nice Jesus stories and learnt from my mum that Jesus wasn’t sitting around pontificating - he was out there working with the sad sick and hungry- So “deeds not words “ is a motto I grew up respecting

Tad Auty
>>95524658

I think because of the reference to the firstborn in the book of revelation (?) lots of Christian sects hook onto that- but it does seem to have had a few LDS ones over the years. I think somewhere in a Mormon text also there is talk of the church being corrupt later on and some people having to rise up and save it . So it’s all kind of sitting there for some nutters to decide to take it literally and try t prepare to lead the church at end times

Michelle Matas
>>95524658

TAD AUTY! my friend!! I've not seen you in a while!! Hope you are well. I love to hear from you and your perspective.

Michelle Matas
>>95524658

Nadine Hansen! Southern California did have a way of getting a lot of religions, cults and all kinds of hippy-dippys back in the 60's and 70's I was more of a 70's kid. I was born and raised in the Bay Area, we heard all about the crazy's in So-Cal, I honestly never heard about Mormons until a family moved into Saratoga, and they didn't drink COKE! OH MY!! I knew for sure they came from So-Cal, that was just unheard of ...

Cindy

Perfect end.

Sue Komernicky

What a wonderful person you are Heather Daybell! Not only a wonderful person, but a mother also! Family first! I think your son will do well in New Zealand, a very multi cultural society & a fascinating culture. Plus he has a solid foundation with you &; Matt as his parents! I admire you so much!

Hidden True Crime
>>95524137

I love this! All wooden spoons are officially named Heather. We love this comment Amy. Thank you for being here. ✨💕

Crystal Swannack

Sweet what an awesome surprise to have early access. And forgive my frustrations

Crystal Swannack

I'm going to say it again but leaving the entire church because of the misunderstandings of your own and because of the actions of other people will never make sense to me I will never agree with it. You can have Sacrament at your own home, you don't even have to go into church to be part of the Lord's Church. It's set up that way. If you don't like the options of the imperfect human beings in your ward or in any word why would you let them take you from something beautiful? And why do so many people who have been members their entire lives expect perfection from the people in the church? Why do you judge the church based on human beings and not your own testimony and understanding? So many people say our church does this even though the profit and the scriptures say this? Well then there you go. People are going to be wrong, even in the church even in the bishopric. And that's going to be forever we will never be perfect, your church and your ward is made up with a whole bunch of imperfect people who are human beings. Some people will have a better understanding some people won't. But it's not about them. And you're telling the world your opinion and your view of things, not even knowing if you are right yourself. Telling the world all these things that you personally find wrong with the church is wrong because we are supposed to be learning and knowing for ourselves. That's the biggest problem, so many members hang their testimony on the actions of other members and it's horribly sad. The amount of people who don't truly understand the gospel opens my eyes to so much. Need to give so much meaning to the first will be last and the last will be first, more meaning than to the already numerous meanings that apply. It is unfortunate if you have been raised in the church and never known it for your own self, and then when you do come to know it for your own self and you think it might be different you abandon it because of those

Paula Marie Cornell

I’m so very grateful for this interview. The tragedy carrys through thousands of lives and will reverberate throughout this family’s future. Best we can hope for is as many involved have the opportunity to share their experiences. My heart is broken for all. Also, Lauren and Dr. John, Heathers faith journey and that which led her to exit the religion, the precipitating incident isn’t the same, obviously, but EVERYTHING Heather shared about the foundations of her faith being ripped out from underneath her is precisely my experience. After my fathers infidelities became public knowledge ( mr Sunday school teacher and deacon) and then the extensive abuse I sustained leading to the eventual end of a 21 year marriage from hell, I realized ~ all of what I believed after 47 years of life was poof gone. The foundations were swept away leaving me with no “catch all” to rescue me. I have been away from the church ( not the same religion ) for 25 years and am only beginning to feel as tho the “3rd degree burns “ of the church, it’s hypocrisy and that of my family’s scarring over. I do not have any woman to share this devastation with. It is as tho a tsunami quite literally tears everything away, EVERYTHING even “eternity” as Heather said. Not to mention my ex claimed to be a believer only to “snatch me into hell”. The second night of our marriage, on our honeymoon the abuse began. My immediate thought was, it’s too late, I have made my vows, my covenant before God. And so, betrayals from my ex, the minister and counsellor that did our premarital counselling , he slipped through all the “ screenings” for authenticity. And so I have spent the last two decades pulling all the threads of the tapestry of my life and creating my new self portrait. Ironically I had only discovered my artistic talents shortly before THE END. I’m a portrait artist , amoungst other media. So it’s fitting I have recreated my heart, soul and life, all while loosing my family and church and history and marriage and having my children watch the whole land mine blow. I do have a faith tho, unconventional I call it, but it’s deep and true, just not one that fits inside of a church or a temple. I have “lost much” as the world would see it however I choose to see that “ I have FREED MYSELF”. How many people can genuinely say that? So, Heathers truth resonated and brought comfort to KNOW I am not alone. What I would give for a couple of hours and a couple of comfy chairs, to support one another. It’s much like as I would imagine coming home from battle, one can’t truly describe it to others. Unless you have lived this hell, it’s impossible to describe the way one’s cells rattle and quake at the ravages of these losses. And so in all my love, with all my unconventional ways, I will pray , for Heathers comfort and ease, her immediate family and of course for all those innocent and affected. (P.s. anyone who reads this please know if you are experiencing any sort of abuse of any kind please read the book THE BODY KEEPS THE SCORE. I am free now yet the ravages of the stress and abuse etc have left me with a brain tumour and multiple health issues and in a wheelchair at 60. LISTEN TO YOUR LIFE, listen to your gut, like Heather did like I eventually did. You will make yourself sick if you do not immediately step away. There is help available to do so. Remember you cannot love others if self love isn’t your first priority. Truly loving oneself is remarkable and I am happy. Choose happiness like Heather and I. Initially it will be difficult but it’s your life and the future of all those you love, and all those that follow, that make the sacrifices worth while. Be at peace. So be it. All my love, Paula Marie

Bludani
>>95526548

“By their fruits ye shall know them”. Some have seen so much rotten fruit within and falling from the church, it’s teachings, behaviors of members, etc that we have chosen to follow the wise counsel delivered by Christ himself, that is contained within the New Testament chapter where this verse is found. I have left also. I take comfort in knowing that I left because I chose to leave because I was following Jesus Christ. Many in my life have been so busy following the prophet that they have not recognized when following the prophet has contradicted following Christ’s beautiful, simplistic but profound teachings. As they get the teachings twisted, rotten fruit manifests itself. I know some have been fortunate enough to see mostly good, sweet fruits coming from Lds doctrine. Some of us were drowning in barrels of rotten fruit and if we didn’t abandon that barrel, we too would have spoiled.

Erica A. Zwick
>>95523387

Yes, it is well-known that LDS and Scientology do that, but I would like examples of other religions that do that. Do you have any?

Erica A. Zwick
>>95524658

The Church of the Firstborn has been a Mormon thing (in one form or another) since the church's beginnings.

Julie Holden

Oof, that is a LOT of grace Heather gives to Chad at the end. Far more than he deserves, and far more than I could give. Heather is clearly a deeply, *deeply* empathic person — which is certainly why I like her — but frankly I don't think Chad deserves even the most minute particles of *anyone's* grace. Sorry not sorry. But much more importantly — may there be heaps of blessings upon this amazing woman. 💖💖💖 May she continue to speak truth to power. May she continue to heal, learn, grow, and share. Thank you for this amazing interview, HTC!!

Angela Pedersen

Wonderful interview! Thank you Heather for sharing your story! And thanks to Lauren and Dr John for always bringing quality content to their channel. Heathers story is so heartbreaking. I’m in awe that she has made it through this ordeal with such a positive outlook on life, and so brave to share her story of also leaving her religion while still living in such a highly populated LDS community. Such an inspiring woman

Hidden True Crime
>>95526679

Thank you so much for sharing this. Wow. I hope I could join you on one of those comfy chairs to listen and learn. You and Heather have been to battle. … Thank you for the book recommendations and I suspect many will be reading your comment that have have been abused, so thank you for sharing what you have.

Sarah Ashliman
>>95525105

I agree ShaRee. Thank you for your thoughts. So much I don't understand in the church. Some principles/practices I don't agree with at the moment. And yet, still so much beauty and truth. I'm trying to make more of an effort to put the Savior #1 and EVERYTHING ELSE after...in my life. I do have a lot of empathy and respect for Heather's journey. I can't imagine. She's gone through so much in such a short amount of time.

Paula Marie Cornell
>>95526679

Ok well let’s do dinner at your table ~ wouldn’t that be a time of comfort and blessing? It would !!!

Sarah Ashliman

Heather did a great job and offered so much insight and vulnerability. I also value her sharing her experience. I do feel the need to say that though the LDS church doesn't focus on the "hard" church history that Heather recently learned, I learned 100% of the information that she learned (masonic influence, Joseph Smith's & Hyrum's polygamy, etc.) when I was a student at BYU (living in Nauvoo for a semester)...22 years ago. I have never felt like any of this was hidden in the least. I've had many open discussions concerning these topics with my parents and my siblings (My sister, Barbara Gardner, is a BYU professor of religion, a feminist in the best sort of way, and knows more church history than anyone I have met. She's also extremely imperfect, but that's beside the point. Aren't we all? :) ) Also, my daughter currently identifies as transgender and is currently only interested in dating females. She has no interest in the church. I love her more than I know how to express and I try to make sure she knows that my love for her is unconditional. I don't know how any of "this" is going to work out. Life is extremely challenging right now, and my life in the church isn't necessarily helping me with some challenging issues my family is facing. However, despite all of this, I feel a greater love towards my Savior than I have ever felt before. I feel confident that my questions and concerns about the church will be answered when it's time, and FOR ME and my family (unless they choose otherwise, individually) we will be staying. Bishops are far from perfect. Stake presidents are far from perfect (my dad was one, and, though he tried his hardest, I'm 100% sure he got a lot wrong.) Prophets are far from perfect. Joseph Smith was far from perfect. Leaders of God's church have never been perfect...or anywhere near perfect, in my view. Also, I feel a bit presumptuous putting myself in a similar light as Heather, but, I too have a very strong mind and will, and I too have seemed to be able to discern aspects of life (deception) that others whom I deemed in a place of higher leadership/education were obviously totally clueless, and even deceived about. I've felt that anger and disillusionment many times, especially these last few years. However, I see "it" different than I used to. I am just SO grateful to God that I can discern things that others, even some church leaders, miss. I'm learning more and more to trust that inner voice. I'm SO glad that Heather listened to her's concerning Chad! I'm so glad that my Mom was a strong woman and my sisters are strong women...as they have been great examples of knowing deeply that they are just as valued by God as any man is. One last thing....I keep hearing members of the church say that women don't have the priesthood. Woman in the church, who have gone through the temple as an adult, HAVE THE PRIESTHOOD. It's true that men have different offices and mantles and keys to using that priesthood power, but, woman are given priesthood power that I don't think many of us realize...let alone know how to use and call upon this power during our many challenges in this life (I know I don't know much about how to access this power). I wonder how much we're missing out on by not focusing on what we have! Anyway, I didn't mean to write so much. I apparently have a lot to say and this is my first time on patreon. Again, having said ALL of that...I still have a great respect for Heather and where she is at in her journey. She's one tough cookie.

Lisa Spears

>it's so heartbreaking to know so many families struggle with a family member leaving a religion, the amish struggle with leaving because they don't want to hurt their parents because they're raised to believe if you leave the religion you'll not get to go to heaven , I have never been LDS infact in Cleveland southwest suburbs most have never met an LDS member but I don't share with my husband my beliefs because I fear if he knew he would be worried for my soul. I'm not a hypocrite so I just don't go or discuss it . I find it ironic the church leaders tell you to research your religion then when you do they claim your wrong. I hear you Heather and I'm proud of you for standing by your gay son and being courageous enough to come forward Thank you.

Jeannette
>>95526548

I would suggest to you to not react to Heather by calling her wrong for speaking out, but to listen and be understanding. The pain this woman has had to go through and the strength it took to stand up for her son to people in power is beautiful. I’m inspired by her honesty and grit. Heather loves deeply, stands up for what she believes in, and is an amazing mother. If only my mother responded that way to our evangelical church when I came out. I feel a kinship to this in my own life, and I can truly say Heather is my hero!

TriciaTheTrucker

I am LDS, and none of this information Heather shared was something I didn't already know. I realize NO person (save Jesus Christ) or church is perfect, because unfortunately God only had us imperfect humans trying to figure it all out in a crazy world. I do realize everyone has their own journey, and has the right to believe this or that... or change it as many times as they want to, any time they choose to. Heather is brave and she's gone through a lot. At the same time, I'm brave for standing up for my beliefs even though they are criticized often, and I too have gone through a lot. I think it's important to recognize it's ok to be different, think different, believe different etc, but we can still respect each other and those differences without being critical. I think Heather is an amazing woman who shared her truth respectfully. Even though it's different from mine, I respect that and her. ❤️

Lisa Ish Galindo

Thank you Heather! Your personal revelations regarding the LDS faith and your family was insightful and informative. Many struggle and can identify with the path you are on. A mother’s love knows no bounds regardless of a doctrine etc. I am going to rewatch all 3 parts of the interview and take notes this time. I know I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again, thank you Lauren and Dr. John for bringing all the professional content and insight into these interviews. I appreciate you both. ❤️❤️❤️

Kathleen T Smith

I'm familiar with the LDS faith, at least superficially--my former boss is LDS, and I've worked with others who are LDS. From what Heather says, am I correct in understanding that members of the church don't know about Joseph Smith and polygamy? It's in the Book of Mormon. I understand the modern LDS church doesn't adhere to all of the principles that Joseph Smith expounded, but am I to understand it doesn't discuss those principles at all, or, maybe, just glosses over them?

Sara Cooper

Once again I am going to add positive comments, totally bored with people slanging the negative. I grew up Catholic and I love so many things about my faith. BUT, that’s a huge BUT! I cannot accept all of the teachings. I have Gay family members and many in the LGBTQ world and Jesus taught people to love not hate. I also understand the frustrations of the fact that woman do not have a voice. Her son is a wonderful soul and these old teachings are not going to work anymore. That’s all I will say as I read the comments the slaying of hate is once again ironic to me; gotta love your neighbor and love the human soul. No matter what! Open your heart to love and really open your heart to love!

Jennie Anderson
>>95539397

I'm LDS I was always taught about church history, even the ugly parts. In Sunday school, seminary, institute, etc. So for me I don't understand when people say that they never knew about any of it. In my experience those subjects were never shied away from.

TriciaTheTrucker
>>95531775

Sarah, I also come from a long line of very tough, educated, and outspoken women. I have a very large and diverse family who all choose different ways of life and beliefs. Gratefully, we love and respect each other, and are a very close family. I've been divorced twice, been abused, and have a daughter who's a drug addict. And I still choose to stay and be a devoted member of the LDS church. I really identify with what you said, and appreciate your comment ❤️

Mindy Caldwell

I wiped tears all throughout this episode, losing count of how many elements of Heather’s journey mirror my own (devout for decades, scrupulous tendencies, leadership callings at terrible times but never said no, grappling with how my gay child fit in the church, feeling minimized and undervalued as a woman, having AVOW-type family members, etc etc etc). I went through my own faith journey eight years ago, embarking on months and months of study and soul-searching, and came to all the same conclusions as Heather. To those who have commented that you already knew this information, please recognize that you are part of a very small percentage of mainstream LDS members. Most of us feel betrayed and blindsided that we never learned the messy history. I might have been able to deal with the unsavory historical stuff if the current church did less harm (particularly regarding their stance on LGBT+ members). I just couldn’t put the genie back in the bottle once I allowed myself to fully explore everything. The arguments of “we’re not meant to understand all things in this life” and “leaders are imperfect” - in my experience, especially considering what is required of faithful LDS members in their day to day lives - those defense statements simply could not withstand the heat of sincere scrutiny. It’s the most painful thing I’ve ever gone through in my life, but I’m happier and emotionally healthier because of it. I honestly don’t know how Heather navigated this journey while also processing the horrors of what Chad was involved in. My utmost respect and love to you, Heather! Many thanks to you and Lauren for presenting your story with power and grace.

Heather Zolis
>>95544299

100% if you say you already knew the deliberate misdirections of the LDS church then I am curious how/when did you know? The gospel topic essays were only published 2013, in a quite way after class action lawsuits were filed against the church for the deliberate lying. These topics are not taught in ANY lesson plans, sacrament meetings, or seminary. Therefore, if you are a long time member who is taught that hearing things opposite of church teachings is anti-Mormon, how would you ever know? The topics are also softened and white washed. Members were excommunicated for decades in the past for talking about the church history lies and these gospel topics creating fear and thought stopping with members.I am curious if you knew that about church history?

lizzy s
>>95539397

Hi Kathleen, Here is my experience in the LDS church. I absolutely knew about polygamy and Joseph Smith being the one who restored it. That is not a secret by any means. We don't have a lot of information about his marriages though because there are no first hand accounts of them. But to answer your question, polygamy is never a topic of a sermon or Sunday school lesson. It is common knowledge that it existed in our history and in biblical history. It is definitely mentioned. But it isn't a specific topic that is preached. We are taught about God, Jesus Christ, and other topics. But polygamy is not one of those topics. I hope that makes sense. There is never a lesson/sermon dedicated to preaching polygamy. We don't practice it so it wouldn't make sense for that to happen.

Isabel G.

I can't express enough my utmost admiration for Heather. She is amazing and I hope that the future is bright. There are a lot of people out there who would benefit from her insight and kindness. Right now now she may not know yet what shape that will take but it will become clear. What a wise and goodhearted woman. There is no doubt in my mind that many people will seek her out and that it is her life's work to be a force for good in the world 😊

Heather Zolis
>>95539397

That’s good to hear. In sacrament meeting? Sunday school? Seminary? Institute? Ah, then you have a white washed version of the actual truth. Do they teach these things to investigators? No. What lesson plans includes gosple topic essays? The DNA proof of the lies the BOM is not of the Native Americans? And admission of all the all falsehoods of the BO Abraham? Admission of the falsehoods per the CES letter? Sunday School?And was that taught before 2013? Because the church lied /hid church history prior to that. Members were and still are excommunicated if they speak up or question the church’s version of history, for decades if they spoke the truth of the church history, but you know that already. Even recently excommunicated a member who proved the churches version of Joseph Smiths death was not forensically possible nor true. But you were taught that in Seminary? You already know the facts around that? The church only started to publish updated versions of “their truth” via gospel topic essays in 2013 after a class action lawsuit was launched by lifetime members who wanted their tithing back because they were lied to and manipulated about origins of the church. Lied to their whole lives.But you already know that. And when the church posted these essays they didn’t talk about it and direct all church members around the world to at General Conference nor ever have, nor ever will - so how could people know if it’s buried in their website? Wouldn’t General Conference be important time/place to clarify their changed versions? They posted the essays to cover their butts for legal reasons and because the church realizes they can’t control the narrative anymore. (Social Media/Internet) Yet each week they teach the same lies. Still. And you know about the 1 billion in fraudulent use of tithing in Canada & Australia, because they talk openly and honestly weekly about what is done with your tithing - Mostly for a football team, stock investments and building malls. But you already knew that, too?

Heather Zolis
>>95531775

Sarah, none of those things are taught to investigators. None of those things are talked about a general conference, ever. Weekly sacrament/ lesson plans do not include those topics. If they were, taught in those settings pretty sure, after 50 + years as a life time member holding countless callings including a stake relief society president she would have heard something, yes? The gospel topic essays were only published in 2013, on the down -low way back in the church’s website, not the landing page. Why? If you don’t know why it was because they lied and had a class action lawsuit against them for lying, How many people were excommunicated for speaking the truth of the history? How many times has the church changed the website to fit current narratives or PR ? How many times have they changed the temple ceremony? How many times, when they are caught do they send in their lawyers? How many apostles are middle aged American white lawyers? I guarantee - 30 years ago, at BYU they did not teach these things. I was there.

Sarah Ashliman
>>95544299

Heather Zolis, your experience was 100% different than mine. My parent's bookshelves were lined, and lined, and lined with books by lds authors addressing nearly all of the church's history....or books written by the polygamists themselves. No topic was off limits in my home, and I never felt that topics were off limits at church in my classes. If I had a teacher shut any questions down...I would have double-downed, because that is my personality. I just don't see the church the way you do. I respect that your experience is yours, and I am so sorry for whatever happened in your life and in the church to cause so much pain that you have obviously carried.

Evelyn Yallen

Thanks for these videos and taking the time to let Heather tell her story. I am deeply impressed by her and the way she has handled this. Wishing her and her family peace and fortitude.

Tamara Wakeman Sukohl

Thank you Heather for sharing your story. I can tell that your journey hasn’t been easy, but be assured that you are on the right path at the right time. Your son is blessed to have you for his mother.

Kaydence Stanley
>>95526548

This is an incredibly unkind and limited view of the world and other people. To assume someone just "doesn't understand" diminishes their loved experience. It's different than yours, but it's not less-than. She was open and honest and a faith transition is earth shattering. It's traumatic and none of us asked for it. Please approach this subject and these people with more compassion. Like Christ would.

Kassie

The struggle with same-sex attraction is no joke, but I don't think we should follow the culture and label a person based on their sexual attraction. Who we are is so much more than any desire. A sexual desire is something we experience - it isn't "who we are." If I am attracted to the same sex, that isn't "who I am." My intrinsic value, my worth, is that I am created in the image and likeness of God - who is Being Itself. To say anything less, to base who we are on a particular appetite, attraction, emotion, etc. - all things that are subject to nurture and experience as much, or more so, than they are subject to nature - is to reduce our humanity to what is most base, what is least. I also cannot agree with the impossibility of living a chaste or celibate life. Why do we look at that as something horrible? As something that isn't doable? We aren't beasts. Living a chaste and/or celibate life can be, in fact, a life of freedom in which one is not enslaved to their passions and emotions. If you find that hard to believe, then your authority is probably the culture and there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. I was a member of the "gay community" for 17 years. What most people outside of the community don't know is that the majority of people on the inside don't believe we were "born that way." When we examine our lives (those who do), we can see the path that led to our same-sex attraction. What most people don't know is that the overwhelming majority of people with same-sex attraction were sexually abused in their youth. As we know, men and women are different. Likewise, the reaction to the trauma manifests differently. Those who weren't physically abused almost always had some sort of extreme parental emotional absence or overbearance. Some people come to understand their path but are okay with living an actively gay lifestyle. Some people, after examining their path choose to leave the gay lifestyle and live chastely - and in this latter group, some surprisingly eventually find themselves attracted to an opposite sex person again...some. More than anything, the most common denominator among people who have walked away is an experience of grace. Interesting, no? The gay lifestyle is not what it's cracked up to be. Believe me. Outsiders have no idea. We let you see what we want you to see in order to protect the agenda. All I am saying is that this topic is much more nuanced than the agendas and labels within the culture. It isn't black and white. Sorry for the long post, but I do want to add one more thing. This language of "your truth." That's mighty dangerous, in my opinion. I think the word to be using is "perspective." There is no such thing as "your truth" and "my truth." There is only "truth." One truth cannot contradict another truth - it's impossible. Perspectives, however, can and do. Perspectives are subjective. I don't want to get all religious here, because I know many people in here are not - BUT, every time I hear people use this language, I am reminded of Pontius Pilate asking Jesus, "What is truth?" when he was looking straight in the face of Truth Himself. Thanks for allowing a different opinion and thanks for all you do. Heather, if you read this, I promise that your son, you, and your entire family are in my prayers. And may we all know God's will for our lives and unite our wills to His. Peace to you.

Kassie
>>95558358

p.s. Heather, Thank you for coming forward. I think you are an amazing and strong woman. Never stop digging. Keep striving to be who God made you to be and you will set the world on fire.

Amber Ferdig
>>95539397

Heather, You have mentioned multiple times that the essays were "hidden". This is factually not true. They were mentioned multiple times at conference, there were letters sent to the wards encouraging members to read them, there is a dedicated easy to find section for them on the Gospel library app. They are not hidden.

Laura Redmon

I am Southern Baptist and experienced my own disappointment when my husband was a Deacon in our church. We were helping at church when our Pastor was there and just having casual conversation and our Pastor said he had received a large sum of money from his parents so he put it in a special church fund so he didn't have to pay taxes on it. I was taken aback and shocked and saddened. Later at a Deacons wives meeting I shared this information with the other wives. They really didn't believe me and someone went to our Pastor. Needless to say a campaign was started against us in a very indirect way to get us to leave the church which ultimately we did. It was a very soul crushing time for us and our kids. The only good thing was about a year later other misdeeds came to light and the Pastor was asked to resign. I feel my information helped to at least have some people question other things that were done. I just wish we would have been apologized to for how we were treated. It really hurt my heart for a long time.

Toni Quilico-Kriebel

Lauren, did someone compose that music for you? It is so effective and beautiful. I just love it!

Jessica
>>95558358

Kassie, I respectfully disagree with your commentary. Ask yourself, "is this true, is it helpful, and is it kind?". If not, maybe you should reconsider if this platform is appropriate for your unaffirming rhetoric.

Christine

I just finished listening to the the 3 part video. Thank you so much Heather, Lauren and Jon for this great interview. I have been following the case from the very beginning, probably because I do like true crime but it also hits home in many ways. I live in Springville, Utah. (no I didn’t know the Daybell’s but my son-n-law was in their ward growing up. Interesting side note is that he thought Chad was a weirdo but that Tammy was a nice lady. I do agree what Collier said in his interview about kids and how they can discern people) I’m also a member of the LDS church and I was devastated that 2 people could do such horrible things. I have also learned a lot of other things that I didn’t know was going on like these strange conferences people go to outside of church and the “preppers”. Let’s just say my mind has been blown. I also really appreciated what Lauren said that she wants this to continue to be a safe space and it was well said by Collier in his interview that we just can’t understand or judge unless we have been through it ourselves. Heather from the very beginning of your interview I thought you are an amazing person and I love the way you raise your children. I love how from the very beginning you knew to shield them from Chad. It’s my opinion that you should continue to trust yourself because you have great instincts and you are very in tune. I also loved how your husband cares more about you and your feelings then he does about the church. I have not been exactly through what Heather has been through but my life has been hell and I like how this interview was called journey because I think that’s what this life is, a journey. It may take us down many paths and my hope is that for Heather and her family is that they will find love, peace and joy wherever their journey takes them.

Nancy G

The missionaries knocked on our door in NH in 1960. I sat on the couch with the family as these young men told the Joseph Smith story on a flannel board. I was 9 and even at that age I knew it was bogus. My brother and I often went digging in the back yard but all we ever found were night crawlers. Anyway I never got into the church but my sisters did. My older sister actually married the missionary who first knocked on the door.

Kassie
>>95558358

p.p.s. Heather, just a thought/another perspective on "Where were you God?" (I get that!): Maybe He has been with you all along...knowing exactly at what point and exactly what it would take to bring you to that moment of clarity. Maybe it was He who instilled that curiosity and inquisitiveness in you, that hunger for truth. It was men who built the system you grew up in, not God. Maybe He put down the breadcrumbs He knew you would follow. Maybe your "gut" has been God talking to you all this time. Frankly, I think God is nuts about you.

Terri Roberts

I just finished part 2. I absolutely love Heather. She is a strong independent thinker so I’ll comment again after I watch part 3. I just can’t even imagine.

Nita Giles
>>95526548

I totally agree! Do not judge. We have not walked in her shoes! I can’t even fathom the grueling heart ache she has been going through! I’m personally going through the same crisis and it’s so hard! My husband is totally IN. I feel very alone!

Karen Holland
>>95559027

I'm sorry unfortunately we live in a fallen world 🌎 and this type of stuff happens daily. People get petty and do things they'd never want done to them or their families.

Karen Holland

As a Christian ✝️ there's more Scientology mixed into Mormon than anything. It's not Christian and it's only fair that members who were raised in LDS know all the history and facts about LDS and where/ why is started. It's gut wrenching knowing that people spend decades and resources ( their children) feeding into this religion thwn being shocked that they were believing falsehoods

Karen Holland
>>95562709

They are different. That's fair. I respect what people choose to join and I'm hopeful that it is with full knowledge they join.

lizzy s

Heather Zolis I'm sorry that our lessons and sermons about Christ offend you so much. But that is what our church is all about.

Tad Auty
>>95558358

Wow- I would suggest you speak for yourself. I do know SOME people respond to sexual trauma with confusion around their orientation- and not allll gay people are born that way. But to suggest they’re mostly all sexual abuse victims that conversion therapy can cure? Or that “hey- celibacy can be a great thing !” I wonder if you’re female. Because some women I know can “ take it or leave it”. Some cannot. There is plenty of evidence that there are perfectly happy people who have not been abused, who have never had attraction to the opposite sex. And there is nothing evil about them. I am speaking about my daughter, my nephew and some of my best friends. I understand that some people are asexual. Some are asexual because of trauma in their past. Some are not. Maybe you think sex is no big deal or relationships are not important but MoST human beings desire to partner up and share a life with someone. I do not judge anyone who chooses a celibate life but CHOIcE is the key word here. Your suggestion that it isn’t so bad is spoken like someone who obviously doesn’t think that’s a crucial part of life. To inflict that life on another- someone who is normal and wants a living relationship- in the name of an invisible deity obsessed by peoples sex lives while condoning killing babies etc ( same book ) Argh But I must add - YOU are completely free to blame your time being attracted to the same sex as a trauma response YOU are free to go and get “ciured” and turned back to straight magically YOU are free to think celibacy can be a wonderful thing But your Jesse Lee Peterson style “people who are called gay are just all messed up abuse victims and need a cure not acceptance “ ?! I agree not allll people are born that way. There are women who have been abused constantly by men in their childhood and the only comfortable arms go lay in can be a woman’s. But it’s also reality that some people- in healthy families with kids abuse- only have same sexual attraction. But there are also horrible people who can intuit “I think that kid maybe gay “ ( meaning wired that way) Some horrible people take advantage of those children This doesn’t mean the abuse made them gay- It means some creeps exploit those children. Anyways it’s complicated but I have to call out some of the things you said because they’re simple not true and science is elk knows that some people are born gay. And trying to rewrite someone’s attraction is dangerous and unhealthy for most people who have experienced . YOU do you and your own conversion but your insensitivity to the humanity of people who just want to love each other? People who have increased risk of suicide because of the very propaganda you just preached. In the name of love? Yeah nah- there are animals that are same sex attracted so it’s natural and if you want to bring deities into it- GOD made them that way. Animals can’t be indoctrinated by an agendas

lizzy s

Lauren, I have enjoyed the first two a lot. But I am worried about the third based on the comments here. I respect her journey, but I don't want to listen if it's just about how evil and wrong my church is. Is it like that?

lizzy s

Well sleep more easily tonight :) because yes we are very informed in my church. We are not perfect, but like all other churches, we are doing our best to learn as much as we can and the gospel. We are encouraged to study everyday

Kassie
>>95558358

Tad, my comment is obviously from my experience and perspective. It's also from doing a ton of research. My comment was also not emotional - nor was it insensitive or disrespectful. Your comment is very emotional and antagonistic. Let's call a little peace here. In response to just a couple of things you said: I never said one word about conversion therapy. I never said same-sex attracted people were evil. If I had, I'd be pointing the finger at myself. Yikes. I do understand the desire for intimacy and relationship. It's a good desire and it's given to us by God (in my belief). Your science comment is incorrect. There has yet to be discovered "a gay gene." The path to same-sex attraction is varied and nuanced. There is no "exact cause" as of now, but there are many common denominators. That's just the truth. The suicide comment falls under the category of emotional blackmail. The number of suicides (despair), the amount of physical abuse (partner on partner), the amount of alcohol and drug addiction within the gay community is exponentially higher than the general population and the numbers increase (not decrease) after fully engaging in the gay lifestyle. I am not "magically cured," as you put it, but I am free - and for that I am grateful. If you can't be open to another perspective, I am not going to criticize you for it. Peace.

Valerie

Loved her interview! As an active and nuanced LDS Mom of a gay kid who has chosen to stay and make things better, I know the agony that comes from going through a faith transition. Although I still find enough good to stay and my research has brought me to somewhat different conclusions than Heather, I’m so grateful for her honesty and voice. It is so needed! Everyone’s perspectives and viewpoints are valuable and learning to trust our own truth and intuition is crucial for happiness and peace.

Kassie
>>95558358

Jessica, I understand that many people will disagree with my perspective - and I don't fault you for it. I am not in the business of affirming everything and anything the culture tells me I should. Is what I said true? Everything I said is truthful. Is it helpful? I think it certainly can be - especially since so many today just go along with whatever they are being told by people with an agenda. Isn't that what Heather is now lamenting in her own life regarding the LDS church? Is it kind? I think I was very kind while navigating an emotionally charged issue. You might disagree with me on all counts. There's nothing I can do about that.

Michelle Matas
>>95563769

Lizzy s I don't think she is saying it's evil at all, I think she is raw with how this has broken her, and this is her story. I hear that she is still supporting her children that are still LDS but at this point she is having issues. That said, I think we all need to question our beliefs from time to time, if we don't how do we know what we are doing is truth? I have stopped through out my life and questioned God, and became stronger for it.

lizzy s

Michelle thanks for your insight. I agree with you

Tad Auty
>>95558358

Good luck to you but you did suggest gay people are made by abuse And that they’re not born that way Therefore I guess if they pray hard enough or god loves them enough they can be cured ? I wouldn’t have had any issue with your comment if u were speaking for only yourself. Suggesting suicide is rife in the lgbt community and it’s not to do with judgement and hatred and archaic religious rules ? So they just choose to Be miserable. Anyways good luck to you- But if you don’t know the harm in the things you said or are suggesting all humans are born heterosexual then you are obviously not looking at science yourself. I understand this is nuanced - and not ALL gay people are born this way- and there are people like yourself who can somehow force yourself to engage sexually with people you don’t find attractive This is foreign to me. But I know those people exist. I guess some people are more flexible sexually. But this was all in response to Heathers heart break at people suggesting her son wouldn’t be worthy of heaven if he actually loves and lives with someone of the same sex It sounded like you were saying “ he’s not gay- he is just struggling with sane sex attraction and there’s nothing sad about not having love in your life” That’s how it sounded to me I didn’t get the vibe you were saying “ oh but this is just me of course- of course others can be gay and still not be burnt in hell “ I saw not one part of your lecture that said it was ok for people to be gay at all. I’m saying it’s ok for you to be ex gay and Christian and think what you like- But some of the “facts “you stated ARE used by the conversion community. Gay gene? Nope Epigentics and foetal hormones - neuroscience - genes connected - multiple genes? Yes Not one simple answer but humans are complicated Hence you can have people who will do unnatural things like reject their children based on ancient books written by people who condoned violence against anyone but their own tribe. I’m glad you’re happy in your life now .

Kassie
>>95558358

Tad, thank you for your well wishes. I totally like you. We have often been on the same side of things in another forum. I like your personality. You are still inserting/insinuating things I never said, but I won't go line by line or we will be ping-ponging all night. I will address two things, however. I never said I was engaging in sexual relations with anyone (much less forcing myself!). TMI, for one thing. It is true though - I live a chaste life. It isn't easy and I couldn't do it without grace, but the freedom is beyond all understanding. You would be blown away by how many of us there are who have made this decision. I also never said, nor did I imply, that Heather's son is unworthy. That word isn't even a part of my vocabulary or heart. On the contrary, I think her son is worthy by the mere fact that he exists. He does have a heavy cross to bear. I would not wish this upon anyone. He is blessed to have parents and siblings who love him so much. I wonder if the prophets and apostles of the LDS faith make judgements about their own worthiness based on things they feel? Probably not.

Kim Chapman

It’s so strange to me to hear this story since I have never been treated this way. I’m 65, served a lot and still do. My leaders have always given me a voice. My leaders acted upon accounts of abuse properly. Some men abuse their callings. I’m so sorry it has been this way for Heather I live in Orem, Utah. I grew up in Provo so I am right here in the middle of Mormonville. As a stake leader we have so many women at the high council meetings. They rely heavily on the voice of the women. I hope you find peace and live the life you have. It sounds pretty awesome

Kim Chapman

I was always told about Joseph’s wives and the stones in the hat. I am always shocked when stories like Heather’s come out since I was taught differently

Mary A Leck

I don’t need to be LDS to understand the emotional turmoil that Heather is speaking of. It is a gift to hear such honest revelations. Thank you to all three of you.

Kate FitzGerald
>>95562709

Funny story: years ago, 50, I think, I was talking to a woman, a self identified born again Christian. She asked me if I was Christian. Sure, says I, I’m Roman Catholic! She looked perplexed and said, “Catholics are Christian?!” I choked on my Tab. Now, I know better, and, if asked again, I would answer, “Arguably Christian!” I still laugh at that exchange. Maybe, when commenting in this forum, leading with “(Mormonism) is not Christian” is a little tone deaf.

TriciaTheTrucker
>>95544299

An assumption is made that if two people know the same things they will interpret it the same way, form the same opinions etc. And that's simply not true. I can't pinpoint when I learned this or that, but I've read the same stuff and come up with different conclusions. That doesn't mean I'm not intelligent and can't think for myself. It doesn't mean that I'm not strong and independent or that I've missed something.... It just means I have formed different conclusions.

Hidden True Crime
>>95563492

Heather did give a disclaimer at the beginning and if you want to listen to that, then it might help you assess and decide what you want to do. Not everyone will want to listen. It is NOT about the LDS church being evil. She speaks with compassion and love, and she just sent her son on a mission. BUT it is about her journey out of the faith. Proceed with caution if triggering.

Sarah Ashliman
>>95563492

Lizzy, have you watched yet? I was concerned with this as well. I was actually surprised at how NOT triggering it was for me. She didn't say anything that I personally hadn't learned many of years ago. Many of the comments/replies are more antagonistic towards the LDS church than Heather herself seemed to be. I had a lot of empathy for her and what she has been through, even though I have't drawn the same conclusions about the church that she has. After all she's been through emotionally over these last few years...I'm impressed that she's doing as well as she is and taking charge of her life in any positive way (getting her beauty (not sure the official title) license, etc). I too struggle with some of the comments. Some of what has been said seems a bit...rude and just give me bad feels. :) In my opinion, the first two videos were much more insightful into the Daybell case, and the last was mostly about her journey away from the LDS church. My heart hurts for her obviously hurting heart, and I believe that God gets where she's coming from 100% (of course He does).

Sarah Ashliman
>>95562709

Lizzy, That's what I have such a hard time with on chats such as this...I wouldn't THINK of taring down someone's religion like I'm seeing here. Jewish people don't believe in Jesus Christ, but I respect the GOOD that their religion offers to its faithful followers. I don't believe in Buddha, but I believe that Buddhists can learn and do a LOT of good by following their religion (I've learned amazing truths from Buddhism as well). I'm sure there are some historical surprises in most churches that could be deemed unfavorable, but I don't judge people of other faiths based on my own beliefs. I'm just grateful for the truths that they bring to the table and that they are trying to bring goodness into this world. I would like to be offered the same grace and kindness for myself and my LDS faith, which I love, because of what it has taught and continues to teach me (and my family) about Jesus Christ and His goodness and love. Thank you for sharing your opinions, LIzzy. It's so nice to not stand alone when defending my faith - which I hold so dear to my heart.

Sarah Ashliman
>>95522783

I respectfully disagree with your bold statement. I'm sorry if this has been your experience. That would be...awful. So glad my LDS church isn't at all like the one you described above.

lizzy s
>>95563492

Yes, I have a strong testimony that God knows where she's coming from as well. I think it's beautiful how He perfectly understands us. Thank you so much for your comment. I had a feeling she would be respectful because she was so careful not to be negative about the leaders who didn't listen to her, and she could have been. But I wanted to be sure because I am not into videos that are just negative towards our faith. Like Mormon stories for example. But I'm fine with hearing about a person's journey, struggles, and questions. I fully feel for people going through that and I certainly feel for Heather. I will probably watch it. Thanks for your review :)

Sarah Ashliman
>>95539397

Heather, "In sacrament meeting? Sunday school? Seminary?" Where I grew up, in Oregon, most definitely, YES! I hope this puts your mind somewhat at ease.

Sarah Ashliman
>>95558358

Kassie, Thank you SO VERY MUCH for sharing your perspective. I'm currently trying to navigate these rough waters with my transgender/lesbian "child" (age 19). Though I try so much to show her the love and respect she deserves (as we all deserve) - the societal brainwashing is so very obvious to me. I hurt for her more than any parent who hasn't been through this could understand. As a mom of a daughter in the lgbtq community....it's a constant damned if I do-damned if I don't (except one choice is celebrated, and the other is metaphorically stoned) state. Basically, I will be "stoned" for my most loving and HARD and honest decisions concerning my high-functioning autistic daughter who hates herself and wants to be my son. She's mentally ill and hurting so badly...and i'm told by society that if I don't give her what she wants, call her what she wants, label her as she choses to be labeled...then I'm an abusive mom who wants her child to kill herself. Nothing is farther from the truth. I know that if I went the way she wants me to go, she would be damaged MUCH MUCH further. I'm one of the only people willing to love her (SO VERY MUCH) WHILE speaking truth to her. I didn't expect to go on about this. I just very much appreciate your willingness to share your experience and changing beliefs around this always ultra-charged topic. I plan on reading your words again.

Tad Auty
>>95562709

As an atheist I view Mormons as Christian’s - If people say they believe in Jesus then they’re a Christian. I know most people think their religion is true and others have false ones- for myself - I do not know if there are any deities at all- I do not believe in any. But I do get annoyed when Christian’s pick on Mormons - because as an outsider to me it is people arguing about what their invisible unicorns wear. One thing I learnt from the decent Catholics I grew up with- What matters is people feeding the poor and healing the sick- and from what u remember, no humans are supposed to say who god is going to burn forever or let into the kingdom. God is the judge- if you believe that and are into that sort of thing of course. My judge is currently my mother and my very eloquent ethical and educated children.

Tad Auty
>>95558358

That’s a tough one- it’s not black and white. I’m autistic and understands gender dysphoria - Which has zero to do with attraction at all though- Note how one feels comfortable with themselves. Personally if I was in this position I would be just fine calling any person what they want to be called and west what they want to wear- but as a parent yes I would be concerned about permanent medical interventions unless it’s a last resort. And for some people it is. But I really do think that being gay is very very different from gender identity stuff. And I know some people can be influenced with social trends- but for myself- I was only 3 when I started struggling with being in a female body. In the 70s Hopefully your child has a decent therapist to work thrush through with to find the most healthy place for them to be comfortable with themselves and live their true life. And I hope that’s a path that means you can all lovingly be ok with each other as you are. It’s very difficult to lose your idea of what your child is or was- but once’s they’re an adult all you can do is let them be an adult and respect they have choices. Same as we all do. But sometimes we do have to make hard choices and it’s nice to have family loving us through things.

Tad Auty
>>95558358

Wow Sarah- I must add- do you happen to have a YouTube channel? If not- there is a YouTube channel “132 problems “ there’s an LDS lady there with 2 daughters gay ( one identifying as trans ) and they have an amazingly nuanced and open conversation about how to juggle their freedom to be and mums faith.

sylvia Cucinelli

I am upset at the nasty comment from Facebook about Heather. She was incredibly well spoken and structured given the fact she's talking about incredible trauma. I can't put into words how inspired I am by her words, her story and her choices. I do hope that, if she decides it is right for her, that she will change her mind and talk more. I'm not LDS, I'm atheist, and I'm not in the US, and yet parts of her story resonated with me so much and inspired me to continue to try to be a stronger, more secure woman. I'm also impressed with her husband Matt. Things could have gone a lot uglier for Heather had he not stuck by her, trusted her, listened to her.

lizzy s
>>95563492

Thanks Lauren! Or John :) I always assume it's Lauren, lol

CL

I was also part of a high control group (JW) and once it unravels, there’s just no going back. Good for Heather for putting her pieces back together and coming through this to the other side. It’s very difficult. I hope they don’t excommunicate her and shun her; to do so is a human rights violation that groups like LDS and JWs get away with.

Erica A. Zwick
>>95522783

It's not my experience. It's all on the LDS website. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng Obedience: The First Law of Heaven It was decreed in heaven that all blessings are predicated upon obedience. We came to earth to prove our willingness to obey. It is important to obey God even when we may not fully understand the commandment (ie, don't ask questions). President Thomas S. Monson said there is peace that comes from teaching with the spirit of obedience. Develop a Good Attitude. Feeling negative? Life might not be picture-perfect, but a positive attitude will always give you something to smile about. (See D&C 78:18.) July 2005. Every child in the Church is taught through singing the importance of a smile with the Primary song “Smiles.” The lyrics read, “If you chance to meet a frown, do not let it stay. Quickly turn it upside down and smile that frown away. No one likes a frowning face. Change it for a smile. Make the world a better place by smiling all the while” (Children’s Songbook, p. 267). Temple recommend questions: Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local leaders of the Church? If you have doubts about God the Father and His Beloved Son or the validity of the Restoration or the veracity of Joseph Smith’s divine calling as a prophet, choose to believe and stay faithful. Take your questions to the Lord and to other faithful sources. Study with the desire to believe rather than with the hope that you can find a flaw in the fabric of a prophet’s life or a discrepancy in the scriptures. Stop increasing your doubts by rehearsing them with other doubters. Allow the Lord to lead you on your journey of spiritual discovery. (Russell M. Nelson, “Christ Is Risen; Faith in Him Will Move Mountains,” Liahona, May 2021, 103) When Doubts and Questions Arise: There is no suggestion in the scriptures or the teachings of the prophets that encourages doubt. In fact, the scriptures are full of teachings to the contrary. For example, we are enjoined to “doubt not, fear not” (D&C 6:36). And in Mormon 9:27, we are encouraged to “doubt not, but be believing.” The Church — through its inspired correlation program — has given us official sources of information to help us prepare lessons and plan activities. Instead of turning to unofficial books and Web sites, let's use those sources. https://web.archive.org/web/20100114023137/http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/58411/Use-proper-sources.html Stick to the manual and stop thinking: https://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon598.htm

Erica A. Zwick
>>95558358

"What most people don't know is that the overwhelming majority of people with same-sex attraction were sexually abused in their youth." That is absolutely not true. "The Problem with the Belief that Child Sexual Abuse Causes Homosexuality / Bisexuality." https://www.pflagatl.org/the-problem-with-the-belief-that-child-sexual-abuse-causes-homosexuality-bisexuality/ "The gay lifestyle is not what it's cracked up to be." You mean: Go to work, enjoy recreational activities, housework, go to religious services, raise children, work in the yard, watch TV, pay taxes?

Erica A. Zwick
>>95563492

"but I don't want to listen if it's just about how evil and wrong my church is." Is your faith that weak that you can't listen to a different perspective? I realize that the church doesn't want its members to be exposed to any criticism. That sounds like mind control to me. Do you realize that the church converted millions of indigenous people based on a lie? From the time he was a child in Peru, the Mormon Church instilled in Jose A. Loayza the conviction that he and millions of other Native Americans were descended from a lost tribe of Israel that reached the New World more than 2,000 years ago. “We were taught all the blessings of that Hebrew lineage belonged to us and that we were special people,” said Loayza, now a Salt Lake City attorney. “It not only made me feel special, but it gave me a sense of transcendental identity, an identity with God.” According to the BOM, Native Americans were the descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel that migrated to the Americas around 600 B.C. Interesting note that this was not an uncommon belief during the early nineteenth century. View of the Hebrews is an 1823 book written by Ethan Smith, a Congregationalist minister in Vermont, argued that Native Americans were descended from the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, a relatively common view during the early nineteenth century. Numerous commentators on Mormon history, from LDS Church general authority B. H. Roberts to Fawn M. Brodie, biographer of Joseph Smith, have noted similarities in the content of View of the Hebrews and the Book of Mormon, which was first published in 1830, seven years after Ethan Smith's book. In 2006, exploration of these claims from a scientific standpoint concluded that there is no evidence of Israelite descent among American Indians, Polynesians or others identified as ancestors of Book of Mormon peoples. The church's official response at the time was that critics are using the evidence to attack the religion. The Mormon Church didn't plan on changing its teachings about Native Americans even after DNA evidence showed that indigenous people in the Americas do not descend from a lost tribe of Hebrews. In 2007, The Mormon Church made a slight change to its teachings about indigenous people in the Americans after DNA tests showed they do not descend from Hebrews. The new introduction to the Book of Mormon indicates that not all Native Americans descend from Hebrews. Church leaders say it is possible that Hebrews mixed with existing indigenous groups to create modern-day Native Americans. This analysis is radically at odds with long-standing Mormon teachings. Just as the history of the northern ten tribes of Israel after their exile in Assyria is a matter of speculation rather than knowledge, the history of the Lamanites after the close of the Book of Mormon record is a matter of speculation. The Church asserts that all members are part of the covenant house of Israel either by descent or adoption but does not take a position on the specific geography of the Book of Mormon or claim complete knowledge about the origins of any specific modern group in the Americas or the Pacific. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/lamanite-identity?lang=eng I find it fascinating that the church maintains that the Book of Mormon is of divine origins, and is the "most correct of any book on earth, " yet it has undergone more than 3,000 textual and grammatical corrections. Some of these corrections included significant changes in doctrine. BYU professors, at this moment, are being paid by the LDS church to argue in effect that the claim that the Native Americans were lost Israelites was never "official church doctrine", and that this was merely the mistaken opinion of every church president from Joseph Smith to the present.

lizzy s
>>95563492

Hi Erica, no I did not expect to be triggered. I never even said that word at all. I simply asked what was the focus of the third video because if it was all about leaving my religion then I wouldn't be interested. It seems like maybe I triggered you though. Are you open to other views?

lizzy s
>>95563492

Would you want to willingly sit down and spend hours listening to a video that was meant to tear down your must precious beliefs? I sure didn't so I asked before hand to be sure. I'm sorry that clearly offended you so much. It always blows my mind when people claim I'm the wrong one when I have been nothing but respectful. Then they proceed to say horrible and cruel things about my beliefs in God. I mean how hard is it to be respectful??? I didn't ask you to join my church. So don't join! But leave me alone. I never asked to be bullied by you

Carrie W.

Thank you for sharing you story with us, Heather. It takes a lot of courage to do what you've done, and I wish for continued peace and healing for you and your family.

Lauren Rencher

Such a great interview. Heather just seems like such a decent human. It reminds me of the conformity experiment and social pressure. Heather is willing to be the voice of reason under immense pressure to conform. Her insights about Mormonism and the way she talked about her transition out was so eloquently put. My immediate family stepped away from the church quickly after my brother came out as gay in the 1990s. My oldest brother found a quote by the author Edward Abbey that, although Abbey wasn’t talking about Mormonism, it really fits to describe how painful a faith transition is. “Better a cruel truth than a comfortable delusion.” I wish Heather the best. She seems like an amazing woman.

Angie Humpert Miller

Her words and perspective were invaluable to me on many levels. My understanding of the case would be so much less without her interview. I had a similar trauma in a Christian church that felt cult like once I was gone. I was young and a new believer. It took me a decade to feel comfortable setting foot in church again so hearing of how much her identity has changed really hit home. I have full on panic attack PTSD episodes in some church settings so I just avoid getting too involved. Not something you’d intellectually think would happen in a church but although not LDS was alot about men being in charge of me and the church dictating everything about my life…if I objected, I was ostracized and not a true believer but actually my intuition was telling me this was messed up. I was in a paid leadership position at the time.

Hidden True Crime
>>95562709

genuinely sorry I haven’t responded to these comments earlier. I appreciate all of those who have been respectful to others religions. Thank you Sarah and Lizzy

Hidden True Crime
>>95563492

This is lauren. Just catching up. I don’t think Lizzy or others who don’t want to listen to episode 3 are necessarily worried about their beliefs holding up to the criticism. I think in general, when something is a part of your life, it’s difficult to hear people criticize it and call it evil. Especially if it’s been a happy thing in your life. I look at it as having to listen to someone discuss your family in a critical way for 2 hours. It’s not that you don’t know critical things about your family, and you can realize your family has faults, and that people can think negatively about your family members and culture. Many can suggest how your family does many wrong things, and they could be very right that your family has made poor choices and hurt other family members. It would still be painful to listen to, even if it’s true. You love your family no matter their faults. Your family has always been there for you. Mormonism isn’t just a set of beliefs or the history of Joseph Smith. It’s a lifestyle, a culture, heritage, and tradition. I think it’s always difficult to listen to people criticize something you care about and to call it evil. I personally understand why many would want to proceed with caution. We all have our limits.

lizzy s
>>95563492

Thank you Lauren. You said it perfectly. I know you understand since you are/were LDS as well. Like you said, I just wasn't interested in this particular topic personally. I'm not afraid of it, I would just rather listen to her talk about the case. I wish her well though and respect her journey. I also appreciate how respectful she was to those still in the church. Thanks again Lauren for your comment

lizzy s

I also want to say, please don't feel bad, Lauren. You were involved in much more important things than dealing with comments. I'm glad you have been able to be a friend to Brandi right now. And you've been covering the Moscow crime as well. I know you've been very busy.

Joanna Mulvaney

This was a really affecting listen. Heather is so gracious and gives so much benefit of the doubt to the people in positions of power around her. As an outsider I am hearing that she and the other women have been demeaned and taken advantage of throughout their church years and that was before all the other stuff. My heart breaks thinking about all the kids scared to come out and then if they do, discovering that their parents and siblings are willing to go to the celestial kingdom or whatever without them. Heather, you are very brave and thank you so much for your honesty about your struggle.

Nancy Fowler

Coming in late to ask who Heather is? (I think I’ll have to google)