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Angel 1x21 (Extended) - Blind Date (Patreon)

Published:
2021-12-27 18:00:05
Edited:
2024-07-12 13:48:37
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

Domi do not defend Mr. Bad Lawyer Guy. Don't do it. Don't even try it. Domi stop this!!!

PS: Day 6 of the reacting streak... ;)

Files

Angel 1x21 - The One Where I Wanna Hug Mr. Bad Guy (AKA Blind Date) .mp4

Shared with Dropbox

Comments

Todd Bolton

The squad was not complicit in what happened to Lindsey. They were trying to right wrongs. He was either in or out. He chose to be in. It was an “acceptable risk”, as Angel said. They could not rescue him if Wolfram and Hart found out. It was hard enough getting the files to help the innocent children. There is no reason to worry about Angel turning into Angelus every time he has an existential crisis. The existential crisis was understandable: “It's still their world, Wesley. Structured for power not truth. It's their system, and it's one that works. It works because there is no guilt, there is no torment, no consequences.” The reason it disappeared in five seconds was because Lindsey came in and said kids were in danger. That is the nature of what motivates Angel. It would have been actually *very* uncharacteristic for him to continue with his “existential crisis” at that point. (And that crisis *will* return, big time.) Compare what Angel says about power to what Holland Manners says to Lindsey: “I handpicked you when you were a sophomore at Hastings, not because you were smart, not because you were a poor kid who had to do better than anyone else but because you had potential, potential for seeing things as they are. It's not about good or evil, it's about who wields the most power. And we wield a lot of it here, and you know what? I think the world is better for it.” (For Angel & Co. it actually is about good and evil, mostly.) And then, Lindsey’s and Angel’s exchange: Lindsey: "Hey, I don't want to be here anymore than you want to see me. But I don't have a choice." Angel: "You always have a choice. I mean, you sold your soul for a fifth-floor office and a company car… You're panicking right now. You can't believe how bad you let things get. That's not change. You have to make a decision to change. That's something you do by yourself. Most people , they never do.” You may not agree with that, I understand. (I happen to agree with it.) But it wasn’t a mistake in the writing. It wasn’t about “fate” (whatever that is). It was about free choice, and, in the end, Holland Manners knew Lindsey well enough to know he would *choose* to come back (for power); Angel rightly had suspicions. Angel treating him with sympathy wouldn’t have changed that one bit. Lindsey is about success and power and Angel gets it. Yeah, it’s in his favor that he wasn’t willing to let kids be killed. But things are not either-or, either good or evil. Lindsey is less evil than Holland Manners but he is still working on the side of evil, in the end, because he wants to be successful, he wants power. His back story doesn’t change that. (As Willow would say, “well, boo hoo”.) And I think Faith is a good comparison. Faith was involved in temptations of power and was killing people (and other bad acts), in her runaway passion. But she reached the point that she wanted to change. Lindsey never did. He didn’t want that one act on his conscience. Good for him, but it went no further than that. And all the evil he’s done and will continue to do has not been about passion, but about calculated manipulation. The show, Angel, is very much about the difference in the two. Again, you may disagree with this worldview, but the writing, itself, in this case, was exceptional.

Steve Quast

It's so nice that this time Willow didn't say to hit "Deliver" LOL

Ron Fehr

I just had an amusing thought while Cordelia was on the phone with Willow, trying to description the files. What if Willow would have told Cordelia to press 'deliver'? Lol I doubt that Cordy would have fallen for that trick again.

Antonio

I feel like Angel would make it through to round two of Squid Game fairly comfortably.

Steve Quast

Looks like we made our comments at the same time lol.

Steve Quast

Based on the episode title, I think it's understandable that you didn't SEE what was coming. So, a couple things about Faith and Lindsey. Faith was basically a child when she turned to the dark side and, while her character may be of legal age now, she's still very much like a child in some ways. Lindsey, on the other hand, is a grown man. And, while we aren't given an exact timeline for him, I'd say there's a good chance he's been on the dark path for longer than Faith has. Also, recall something that Angel says in one of our favorite episodes from season 2 of Buffy, "Lie to Me": "I know people. And something tells me this is not the right guy" [speaking of Ford, of course] Angel may very well have been able to see something in Faith that he didn't see in Lindsey. And if that's the case, then he was right, since Faith ended up turning herself in whereas Lindsey just needed a little extra push and he went back to taking the easy path. Speaking of which, Holland, the head lawyer (for lack of a better term) is also evidently a good judge of character since he spared Lindsey, but not Lee. Plus there's the fact that Lindsey had just gotten the blind woman off after she literally just killed someone at the beginning of the episode. And Angel's been dealing with the Wolfram and Hart types all season.

Ron Fehr

Yep. We were thinking the same thing.

Steve Quast

The fight between Angel and the blind woman at the end reminds me of fighting a boss battle in a video game. Often times you have to learn the boss's weakness and practice the right techniques before you can take them down.

Steve Quast

Shanshu is not even an English word so, don't worry about trying to predict anything correctly for the season finale lol. Although there is a specific meaning to the title which I'm sure someone will tell you about later (it might even be me).

Matthew

One thing to keep in mind. Holland talked to the mind readers, so he knew that Lindsey had betrayed W&H, but he probably also knew that Lindsey would make the choice to stay as well. That is why he was so confident.

Ron Fehr

I know the specific meaning you're referring to, Steve, but I'm not going to mention it now. I'll leave that to you if you decide to do it later. Haha.

Ron Fehr

Actually, Domi, Kate was in three episodes so far. Lonely Hearts, Somnambulist, and the episode where her father was killed.

Ron Fehr

Oh, I just remembered Sense and Sensitivity as well.

Veronika

6 days in a row?! This is such a treat...You're spoiling us :D Thank you so much, Domi for all your hard work <3 I agree with every single thing you have said this episode, and not just about Lindsay...I can't wait for the finale!

Milan W.

I don't think Angel takes Lindsey seriously because he sees Lindsey isn't seriously seeking redemption. He walked into Angel's office making excuses for himself making bad choices. He isn't taking responsibility for wrongs he's done, he's just trying to avoid crossing one line while shirking responsibility for all the other lines he's crossed. Alternatively, when Faith is seeking redemption she isn't making excuses for herself and ultimately chooses to be held accountable for what she had done.

Molly Willis

God, I forgot what a fucking fantastic episode this is. All the Angel/Lindsey parallels - them both feeling driven to uncharacteristic behaviour by Wolfram & Hart, uniting and then being differentiated (although murkily) at the end with the side they choose. Domi, you never fail to make me laugh! "Whatta man, whatta man, what a mighty good man" @ Lindsey near the beginning was an instant chuckle. Purest and funniest Buffy reactor by far!

Steve Quast

She was also in Sanctuary. I think she may have also been at the end of episode 14 (I've Got You Under My Skin), but I could be wrong. I normally skip that episode on rewatch.

FernWithy

I didn't think it came off as "making excuses" so much as "explaining himself." This is how I got from point A to point B. I think this episode was clearly Angel making a moral mistake... an understandable one, given his history with Lindsay, but still absolutely a mistake that could prove very costly.

madfem

I think it can be interpreted as different things. Angel making a mistake, Angel letting W&H get to him and his moral compass, Angel making a distinction between a lost teenager who commits impulsive acts of violence (Faith) and a guy who is working for an evil law firm in a more cold and calculated way (Lindsey),... I think its a mix of all of those actually.

UTU49

Steve Q, Correct about ep 14.

Brendan O'Connor

And she does appear in episodes 4 and 5 briefly, giving Angel information regarding Ronald being defended by Wolfram and Hart, and the history of Cordelia’s apartment

zerofk

You brought this up in your discussion too: I hate how badly Angel treats Lindsey this episode. The contrast to how he acted around Faith is stark: she killed, abducted, tortured - and yet he almost coddles her. Lindsey helps the evil forces but as far as we know hasn't done anything near as bad as Faith - and yet Angel treats him like scum: mocking, taunting, outright insulting. It feels to me like Angel is just being petty and resentful. Which might not be that out of character if we see how Angelus acted on Buffy. Goodbye stoic lawyer guy who got shot in the head. You will be missed.

Preaching to the Horse's Mouth

I feel like Angel's difference in attitude this episode is tied into his comments about how powerful W&H are, how they have all this power and no conscience. He came to a bit of a realization that in order to stand any chance against them he has to get a bit of his Angelus on and not care himself. The poking fun at Lindsay with the snoring is a very Angelus thing to do and is his way of saying "I don't trust you, I don't care about you, and I'm not about to give you and your lawyer pals any slack from now on, even if for the time being you're useful." There's every chance I'm way off base but just my interpretation.

KT

Other people have said some version of most of this, but I just love this episode and talking about this episode so I'm gonna post this anyway. We've seen Lindsey enable evil without hesitation or remorse since the pilot, when he made preparations for Russell to murder Cordelia. The line he won't cross is killing children, which is a line most despicable human beings aren't willing to cross. It doesn't really say much about his moral character that he wasn't willing to do that. Angel isn't in on all these details when he initially dismisses Lindsey, but he knows the kind of evil W&H perpetrates and doesn't get any sign of actual regret for past wrongdoing from Lindsey, just fear of repercussions and... excuses. Yes, poverty may be what motivated him psychologically, but he talks about it like that is a justifiable reason to do evil. The fact that he has a whole explanation for it ready to go, even if it's completely true, is a red flag. Faith had a similar background and occasionally used it as an excuse, but I imagine if she did so to Angel he would also say "boo hoo, that's not a good reason to kill people." I mean, not having a soul is the ultimate excuse, and yet Angel still feels responsible for the actions of Angelus. And if Holland Manner's evaluation of Lindsey's character is all true (which, to be fair, who knows), then Lindsey's disillusionment with W&H started as boredom, which Holland immediately redirected into being about morals when he challenged him to kill children, possibly as a ploy to indoctrinate him further before he can get any more disillusioned. We haven't been given evidence that Lindsey has been living with any sort of guilt for the other things he's done. Not that I require evidence for it to be true, repressing guilt is a thing and we don't know Lindsey very well. But all this to say, Angel has good reason to be deeply suspicious of Lindsey's motives. It doesn't help that his opening statement is "I need your help, I want out." Not "I need your help, I can't do this anymore" or "I need your help, they're gonna kill some kids." Angel cut through Faith's bullshit in a similar way to Lindsey, except we know Faith better than Lindsey so we knew Angel's observations were true with Faith and so didn't feel as harsh. Angel even gave Faith tough love during her recovery period in Sanctuary, as coddling her would have made her feel like taking the easy route and running away again was a good option. However, even though I think Angel was valid in his approach with Lindsey, I'm not sure it was the right one. Lindsey seemed to need a little coddling even if he didn't deserve it, Holland proved that. I think most likely Lindsey would have made the same decision regardless, but it's amazing how much people's choices are influenced by the manner in which they are spoken to. Some kindness coming from the Good Side in this difficult confusing predicament could have made a world of difference. But Holland was the only one with good Manners haha

KT

Yeah only 4 eps so far where she has an integral role in the narrative, and then like 4 where she's used as a shortcut to get the plot moving.