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Buffy Season 4 Thoughts (Patreon)

Published:
2022-01-03 18:01:02
Edited:
2024-07-12 14:01:19
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

Hiya friends, The Domi Ramblings continue... So I hope this proves to be entertaining :) 

PS: Not exactly a reaction but rather a discussion so does this count as day 13? Don't wanna break the streak.

Files

BUFFY SEASON 4 THOUGHTS (Discussion, Predictions, Q&A)

Full length reactions + early access to all my videos on https://www.patreon.com/domie ✧ Disclaimer: I have watched parts of Angel and may speak of spoilers in some vids. links: ♡ for business inquiries: domiereacts@gmail.com ♡ patreon: http://patreon.com/domie ♡ twitter: http://twitter.com/domireacts ♡ twitch: http://twitch.tv/itsdomie ♡ my buffy/angel watch order can be found here: http://slayalive.com/showthread.php/3924-The-Buffy-Angel-watching-guide?p=129360&viewfull=1#post129360 playlist with all my buffyverse (buffy + angel) reactions: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDCB1brolHlyL6tSL4NSKOp8vEI5lmy7h by season... ♡ buffy season 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KX-EF9swh0&list=PLDCB1brolHlwEG1FF-6TSEj-evk40qA0g ♡ buffy season 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoCukdgOck4&list=PLDCB1brolHlx_vVXhrWM-vDm37IxOiNVk ♡ buffy season 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ5GpYp25-Y&list=PLDCB1brolHlysEHf2XdPdcuSWUZtGkNE2 ♡ buffy season 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE19HumWnI4&list=PLDCB1brolHlxGAP9nGSHm6RaZkRl2A5d- ♡ buffy season 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0e5QlEms1I&list=PLDCB1brolHlzhfIcZLjz_co6XDLAJ_vY0 © I do not own copyrights for Buffy the Vampire Slayer. This is simply a fan edit, all copyrights should go to FOX. This is protected under Fair Use. #BuffyTheVampireSlayer #BuffyReactions #BuffySeason4 TIME STAMPS: 00:00 - General Thoughts 1:00:08 - Character Arcs 1:39:38 - Relationships 1:59:56 - Season 5 Predictions 2:14:48 - Q&A

Comments

Dave Ford

146 mins - settling in for the long haul with this one :-)

madfem

No cuz guuuurl i have been noticing the exaaact same thing with the people that i introduced to Buffy - AND with our gurl Alley ☺. People suddenly get super invested in the show in s4, and I dont think it necessarily means that this season is the best or that it will be their favorite at the end of the series (or especially when they rewatch), but there's something weird that happens in s4 in regards to the attachment that people feel to the show.

Cheryl Coffin

With regard to the Initiative, keep in mind that their goal wasn’t altruistic. They weren’t there to help Sunnyvale; they were there because of the number of demons available and their plan in implanting the chips was to control the demons for their own purposes. Most likely, sine the Initiative was military, their plan was to use them as soldiers. Also, while Restless seems like not much of a finale for season 4, one of its purposes was to show how dangerous the spell that was used in episode 21 to tap into the power of the first slayer was.

Veronika

2 hours and 26 minutes? You've truly blessed us, Domi <3 And this totally counts...day 13, already? You're on fire! :D Love to hear all your thoughts! This is so interesting. The things you said about Buffy not visiting Joyce, my explanation for it was...the time she did come home in 4x01, Joyce has packed Buffy's room with crates and did not seem very enthusiastic that Buffy was back...I've always seen it as Buffy then thinking that Joyce probably doesn't miss her because that's what I would've thought if my parents did the same thing. Anyway...that's probably not the reason :D I was also very sad that Buffy kind of neglected Joyce :( PS: Love u too! ;D no, you're the greatest human being to walk this Earth :D

madfem

the best thing in season 4 were of course definitely the lesbians, namely Tillow and Fuffy. but in all fairness aren't lesbians always the best? ...food for thoughts

indaeo

My favorite part of Restless as a season finale is that it's emblematic of the entire show's initial message - to subvert expectations. From the first inspiration of taking the cute blonde girl alone in a dark alley and turning her from a victim to the one who fights back. Followed through to the first scene of the pilot - a cute and scared blonde girl is actually the evil fiend. Just when you think you know (what's to come, what you are) how a season will be formatted, they quite literally flip the script and give you this confusing, yet ultimately incredible and satisfying episode. It's yet another way that Buffy continued to cement itself as a top tier show of all time.

John

I'm a Season 4 fan. I think it is the funniest of the seven seasons. It's got some top-tier episodes in "Hush," the Faith episodes, and "Restless." And Season 4 will always have a special place in my heart because it is the season in which I started watching the show regularly back in the day.

G.Un.

If we see Adam as the final product of the Initiative, we could say that the entire Initiative storyline is the big bad and at the end the Initiative, and not only Adam, is destroyed, so in this season they introduced it right from the first episode. At the end, Adam's final objective is pretty clear, simple maybe but clear, the same objective planned by Dr. Walsh right from the beginning, the only difference is that she thought to be able to keep everything under control, clearly she was wrong. I would even say that Adam's objective was more clear than that of the mayor for example. He wanted to become a big snake, great ... why??? A little thing, and let's be clear I don't want to offend in any way anyone, could people please stop expecting someone to die, or be surprised if nobody dies in the end. I know that nowadays we are used to see such thing happening a lot of time in a lot of shows, Walking Dead did it so often that it has become a meme, but only because today there are too many bad and or lazy screenwriters. 1 - The death of a character works as shock value, it last for a short time. What creat the emotional effect is the mourning. Seeing the others characters grieving is what gives meaning to the death in the long time. You don't even need to kill a character to get the same effect. Willow's grief when Oz left gives us the same emotions we would have if he died. Killing someone just for the shock value is a cheap trick, like many stupid horror movies that are based only on jump scares, you jump, you laugh and you move on. Think about Kendra's death in season 2. 2 - Given point 1, killing a character at the end of the season is not usually a great idea. You don't have the time for the mourning. If you want to do it you need to plan it really well and still can be tricky. Angel's death in season 2 works but only because they focus only on Buffy's grief, if they had to involve other characters they wouldn't have had enough time to do it decently. 3 - When you kill a character you usually find youself, as a writer, without an important element to move on the story, so you should try to avoid it as much as possible, unless, of course, the story clearly points in that direction. 4 - The most important thing anyway it's not, killing or not killing a character, but to make your audience really believe it can happen. This is done really well in season 1 and 2 with the death of principal Flutie and Jenny (and of course Buffy for a little bit). Now it doesn't matter if nobody dies anymore, the audience will be anxious in any dangerous situation and you are golden.

R J Walker (FumblesMcStupid)

I always suspected I was the greatest human being to walk this Earth, nice of you to confirm that ;) But seriously, that was a great discussion. I agree that it's so nice to see a pretty trauma free coming out. And I, too, love Willow and Oz, and Willow and Tara. I LOVE Anya so, yeah, big mood wanting her to be more than a love interest. And I like that Giles and Xander are almost getting on now lol Giles is concerning, he seems to be in a holding pattern at the moment. Buffy, I suppose her learning that she could succeed in college was cool but I'm not sure she grew with Riley, or became a better person (although maybe that's unfair on Riley, that would be hard to do lol). And you're right, they sure do leap from relationship to relationship! Can't wait for season 5 :D

G.Un.

Considering how easyly the characters walk (no one has a car aside Giles) from the college to Xander's house, Giles' house, the Bronze, etc. Buffy could have been home for dinner every single day if she wanted to, saving also some money. But, of course, the theme of the season is the college's life and being away from home. Would it have made more sense if the college had been far away from Sunnydale? Sure, but then it would have been a problem to insert Giles, Xander, Spike, etc. In other words, don't overthink and just take it as it is as other things in the Buffyverse. Like the Initiative, they give pagers to their agents but they are too cheap for a cellphone? It was the year 2000 not 1980. Did they know that the Nokia 3310 was already on the market?

UTU49

I love season 4, but it has very significant strengths and weaknesses. I can totally understand why people might rank it high, and I can totally understand why people might rank it low.

Antonio

It was hot, it was cold, it was all-temperature Buffy.

Veronika

Great points! I really did overthink it because I was trying to justify to myself why Buffy would not visit Joyce...but you're so right. The focus of season 4 was the college life and sadly Joyce is not a part of it....

G.Un.

I felt the need to share here some of my thoughts about the seasons. Why? I honestly don't know. Anyhow I already know that it will be long, with a lot of rambling and bad writing, so I want to apologize in advance. Honestly I never understood this common notion that the fourth season it's not particularly good. Even by my most basic measurement system, aka which seasons I re-watch most often, this season places itself in the top three. In my opinion, the first, second and fourth season are the best of the series, in no particular order, it's up to the moment. The third one is good, it has some great episodes that I often re-watch, but as a whole the season is less … cohesive than the other three. The fourth season has amazing dialogues basically all the time, great humor, deep and felt romances, drama of course, but never forced or over the top, always believable, relatable. They even make me like Xander again, not an easy task after the third season. Probably one of my favourite aspects of this season is the friendship between the scoobies. Even if the main theme of the season is just exploring the challenges to maintain the friendships after finishing high school, or maybe exactly for such reason, rarely I felt so much the connection between Buffy, Willow, Xander and Giles. About the romances, we follow the beginning and the evolution of three new love stories and, despite this, their progression feels more natural and engaging than the others in the previous seasons. Probably the most “rushed” of the three is actually the one between Buffy and Riley that goes, I wouldn't say 0, but let's say 50 to 100 in a single scene at the end of “doomed”. Let me clarify, I loved Buffy & Angel and Willow & Oz but their relationships felt to me kinda … jumpy? Like they are at a certain point in their relationship in an episode and than we find them at the next point a couple of episodes later. It works because I think we all love the characters and they all have a great chemistry with each other, but from a storytelling point of view I think that they did a better job in this season. I really don't get it why so many people dislike season 4, for what it matters I don't even understand why they do the same with season 1. Maybe they consider it too “funny”, not enough “dramatic” and “dark”, whatever it means, and so not enough “emotional”. Well, happiness is an emotion and laughing is an emotional reaction, remember it's harder to make someone laugh than it is to make them cry. Ok, jokes aside, even if it's true that in general this season is particularly funny, it's also true that it has no less emotional and dramatic episodes than season 2 for example. We have “Wild at heart”, “New moon rising”, “Goodbye Iowa”, certainly “This year's girl” and “Who are you” are really emotional and intense. I would also add “The I in team” to the dramatic ones because seeing Willow and Buffy drifting apart to me was heartbreaking, their special friendship it's been a cornerstone of the show so far. Anyway having lighthearted and funny moments, or even multiple episodes, between the more intense and or dramatic moments is what makes these so impactful and memorable. If you have only drama after drama your audience will easily become numb and you'll have to ramp up the drama to a ridiculous level to get the same reactions, not great. Others probably dislike this season because of Adam. I admit, he is not a really interesting character but it's not a big deal. Like all the big bad in the series, he has quite limited screen time, an element of the background (Angel was kinda an exception because he was also part of the main cast). Of course having a charismatic big bad is more interesting and fun, but who cares if an element in the background it's not perfect when everything in front of it it's so great. Some people would even say that Adam is not the actual big bad of the season and, in a way, they are right, but it's not just an idea or a conjecture, it's actually a statement done by the producers more than ones and not only for this season. See, they had kinda a blueprint, a framework on which they build all the seasons. Following a blueprint it's actually a good idea, it helps to maintain a certain narrative and style cohesion year after year. The basic idea is that during the season Buffy has a personal challenge to overcome, a level of personal growth to achieve, a stepping stone to reach to become the woman, and of course also the slayer, that she is destined to become. That is the actual “big bad” while the main villain of the season is little more than a plot device to guide Buffy towards such moment of personal growth. As soon as she reach this new stepping stone the big bad ceases to be a threat becoming a minor annoyance at best, which Buffy gets rid of in 30 sec max. We could actually divide the final confrontations in the season finale in two group, the ones in witch Buffy reaches this new “level” in her life during the combat with the big bad (season one and two), and the ones in witch she does it before (season three and four) where the big bad lost before he even started. It's important, I think, to understand that BTVS is a character driven series and not a story driven one, so, until the characters and the dialogues are well written I would consider the season good, at least. This is why the “monster of the week” episodes don't feel hollow or pointless, most of the time, like in other series. The “monster” it's never the point, the real point is the exploration of the characters, their personal grow as like as the relationships between them, that, of course, carries over from episode to episode. I admit that I miss sometime the format of 22, 24 episodes per season, it's ideal for a character driven series because it require time. Nowadays the series are almost all of 8, 10 episodes per season, sometimes even less, so it's not strange that they are mostly story oriented. To conclude, me personally, I think that with season four ends the golden age of BTVS. “Season 5 is better than season 4”, really? (without spoilers) From a cinematographic point of view, I can't place it at the same level of the previous seasons. Some peculiar choices in lighting and style make it look more like Angel (the show) than BTVS. The dwindling budget for the season can justify fewer extras, locations and sets but nothing more. My real problem with season 5 anyway is the writing. I'm not talking about the “story” (not here and now of course) but how the characters are written, their interactions, the dialogues, they sound less and less the characters we have known up to this point. I know that the season is full of emotional triggers so it's probably hard to notice the issues the first time. However, the third or even fourth time you rewatch the season, those same emotional triggers don't work anymore and the writing starts to sound … wrong. This is my personal opinion of course, I can't wait to hear your opinion Domi even if, as I said, I don't expect a cold analysis, I understand it, but I'm still curious. A couple of reflections on Riley's and Xander's characters in the comments below because this is already too long. Sry again.

G.Un.

Riley: Is Riley actually boring? Well, I would define him more as “basic”. I mean, if for a moment we would try to put aside all the Initiative stuff, the Adam situation, the demon fighting or all the problem with the enhancing drugs, what could we say about him as a person? Which specific, intriguing, good trait can we associate with his character? I could say that he's a good guy, friendly, he was with Willow at the beginning, but not much more and that's the problem. I could make a list of the good and interesting traits of Tara and Anya, traits that are there regardless of the situation but I can't do the same with Riley. The mistake, unless of course this was exactly what they wanted, was to connect the character with the Initiative quite from the beginning without trying to create a compelling character before, therefore we identify him more with what he does than with who he is … the good guy stock character. Probably for this we don't understand why Buffy is so much into Riley, apart from the physical attraction of course. Understandable, after the long and almost platonic relationship with Angel, she has a lot of sex to catch up on. Xander: I liked Xander in this season and this make me think, why instead they brought me to literally hate him, many time, during the previous seasons, especially the third one. What changed? Yes, many time he has been obnoxious, controlling, possessive and aggressive, and he annoyed and even irritated me more than once, but come to hate him … that's a different level. And then, rewatching this season I got it. It's not what he says or does, that could be annoying and irritating, but the arrogant sense of entitlement that he shows when he does what he does together the refusal of any accountability. The lack of shame or guilt that he shows while he was cheating on Cordy with Willow, being upset by Cordy's reaction after they broke up thinking that he didn't deserve it (yes you did), attempting to get Angel killed behind Buffy's back first and then, disgruntledly accepting Buffy's apologies (what?!). These are some examples, but I could find others. To be honest, Buffy and Willow have to share part of the blame here, at least a little bit. Too many times they let him get away with his comments completly out of place and, doing so, they kinda act as enablers. In this season all of this disappeared. Xander is just this kind guy, maybe not too bright but that is aware of his limits, who listens without judging and who tries to help when and how he can. Why they wrote his character in that way in the previous seasons I really don't know, we can only hope that in the next season they don't reverse the progres they did in this season.

Ariel17

Just a note on why Buffy didn’t go home to spend Thanksgiving: at the beginning of the episode she mentions that Joyce is at her aunt Arlene’s for thanksgiving, so that’s why she doesn’t go home. It’s quick and kinda hard to miss but yea… Also, I think BTS, the reason Joyce isn’t in a lot of episodes this season is because the actress had asked for some time away to spend more time with her family.

zerofk

I fully agree with what you said about the breaking of the class protector award. It is indeed a symbol of how her highschool career means nothing in college. Obviously next to also being the catalyst that makes her angry enough to defeat Sunday.

R J Walker (FumblesMcStupid)

I believe she got the chance to move with her family to Italy and so she just shot a few episodes in blocks but mostly lived there.

Vicky N

Well said.

Ron Fehr

I just want to say thanks, Domi. There were probably things in the Tillow relationship that I overlooked upon my first time watching it. Thankfully you pointed some of them out.