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Buffy 5x10 (Extended) - Into The Woods (Patreon)

Published:
2022-04-11 17:00:07
Edited:
2024-07-12 16:23:06
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

I'm so relieved right nowwwwwwwwww!! And fuck Riley (just not literally, Buffandra)!!!! 

Files

Buffy 5x10 - Domi Can Finally Breathe Again (AKA Into The Woods) .mp4

Shared with Dropbox

Comments

Steve Quast

The one where Riley gets kicked to the curb (and all the peasants rejoice).

Ron Fehr

I was never a Riley and Buffy fan, but I think Riley had to make a choice. Buffy either had to say she loved or he had to give up on her. I'm not trying to defend him, but I just think this is how it basically had to end.

Antonio

Shoutout to 'Junkie Vampire Girl'. I bet she must've loved adding that one to her resume.

Richard Ashton

Why go for a break up when this is BtVS and the writers can go for a total disaster?

indaeo

I never hated Xander or Riley more than in this episode.

Bri

Yup.

Bud Haven

"You've been treating Riley like he's the rebound guy. When he's the one who comes along once in a lifetime." Someone has an opinion as to how Buffy's been treating Riley and what he should mean to her. Please. Couldn't Buffy break up with both? He shoved her into going after him imo. And If she had caught him and asked him to stay? Just would have put it off anyway. They aren't compatible. Like Buffy said, "This is the package." She doesn't have what he needs.

zerofk

Riley telling Buffy that "[the vampires] needed me" and "It's about me taking care of you" gets to the core of his problem with their relationship. He needs to be needed. He needs to be the protector, the strongest, the alpha. Multiple times he has said that he was okay with Buffy being stronger, but each time it was either followed or preceded by statements or acts that belie his words. When he first found out what she was, he said "I'm not even sure *I* could take you," and "give me a week or so to get ready and I'll take you on" (I can't remember the _exact_ words, but that's pretty close). Those are some very strong indications that he could not handle being in a relationship with someone stronger than him. That's not to say I put all the blame on Riley. Buffy did sometimes seem to take him for granted. As Dawn said: "she doesn't get as worked up over [Riley as over Angel]". She doesn't have that same passion. Sure Angel was her first love, the puppy love, and a new relationship is not going to be the same. But I can understand Riley's point that she doesn't seem as invested in the relationship as he is. Still, I mostly blame Riley - just not completely. As for Xander, I know a lot of people dislike his speech in this episode. But I think he's right. It comes down to two sentences: "if what he needs isn't there, then break his heart," and "if you think you can love this guy, then think about what're about to lose." Both are "if this, then that." Essentially he's saying Buffy needs to make a choice, and he's right about that. He's not right about trying to save their relationship - I think that's coming from a place of not wanting to lose the only male friend he has - but he is right about forcing Buffy to choose. This has become much longer than I intended. But one final point: I do _not_ like the way the writers basically take Buffy's choice away from her. She should have been allowed to choose, not have the choice thrust upon her by being seconds too late. But I am glad to see Riley gone.

Henrik Holst

Idea; what if Rileys decline is a direct response to the sexual abuse from 5x16 "Who Are You" and the issue was not just "brushed over" as so many Buffy fans claim. Just look at Rileys behaviour: increasing decline of self worth, seeking out sexual ways to demean himself and constantly finding ways to hurt himself by engaging in dangerous solo "missions".

Ron Fehr

I don't understand why. They had good reasons for saying what they did. Granted, what he said was not pleasant for Buffy to hear, but somebody needed to say these things to her.

CeNedra

I never hated Riley, if anything I pitied him, that doesn't mean I blame Buffy, I think the whole thing was an early breakdown of communication which just got worse over time and led to suspicion, feelings of unworthiness and taking people for granted 🤷‍♀️ shit happens but no one deserves hate for it, Riley was a good guy, just not THE guy.

Svetlana Grabar

It’s the way he did it, I think. They’re adults, Riley could have brought up relationship issues in a conversation a long time ago.

indaeo

Okay, yeah, I do agree with this, and it's something I usually do. I was just riled up after re-watching it. lol I really didn't like how they wrote this whole situation - from Riley *saying* he's not blaming her, then... blaming her. To Xander telling Buffy to let Riley go if she can't give him what he wants... which she had JUST done, so he's also disrespecting her own decision making. (I have a whole other issue with Xander somewhat self-projecting himself into Buffy's love life here, but that's for another time). To having Buffy run after the man who gave her an ultimatum (which he, of course, said he wasn't doing). Why not just tell him to go do this mission, give them time apart, and then maybe they can talk later? I rarely go after the writers, but this was a sloppy way to write Marc's exit. Everyone deserved better.

Vicky N

What is worse? Riley blaming his insecurities on Buffy? Xander patronizing her? Spike self serving actions disguised as good deeds? What Riley did was inexcusable. To make matters worse, once he gets caught, he tries to justify himself by blaming Buffy and when that doesn’t work, he tries to provoke her into hitting him so that he would feel morally superior. Finally the ultimatum without giving her a real opportunity to process what she has just discovered. Xander had some arguments but he has already made up his mind that the end of the relationship is Buffy’s fault, he doesn’t even listen to her. As for Spike, at least he has the excuse of being a twisted soulless demon. And his intention was not to hurt Buffy.

Ron Fehr

While Buffy was forced into an ultimatum, in a way she had forced Riley to offer it to her. He tried everything he could to try to repair their relationship. He was left with no other choice.

Ron Fehr

While I agree with you about Spike, I can't say the same about Riley and Xander.

John

Joyce is cured and Riley is gone. Is this the Best Episode Ever?

Ron Fehr

Remember though, that Joyce needs to recuperate. Her life is not quite back to normal yet. As for Riley, him leaving is no cause to rejoice. Sure, it wasn't going to work out with him and Buffy, but don't hate him for what he is.

Martin Waits

Seeing Riley on that helicopter is such a relief. Xander's speech at the end is one of his most infuriating moments. Probably his worst scene since before The Zeppo.

Ron Fehr

Gotta disagree. It wasn't nice, but Buffy needed to hear it. Buffy is not perfect, and sometimes she needs to hear things she doesn't like.

Bri

I just really dislike the implication that Buffy has done anything wrong in this situation. Xander treats Buffy like she's an idiot because she didn't know how Riley felt. He only knows because Riley literally came out and said it to him. He didn't extend that courtesy to Buffy, just ran about with other women behind her back. Riley expects to be the main focus of his girlfriend's life, but Buffy has other commitments in her life and he can't stand that. He resents and blames Buffy because she can't give him what he needs. And somehow this is presented as somehow Buffy's fault? He's not really even ready for a serious relationship- he can't say what he needs without causing this big drama. Xander is treated by the show as if he's saying something insightful. Buffy tries to explain that one of the reasons she was attracted to Riley was his reliability, and Xander -of course- immediately reinterprets this to mean convenient and is super judgemental. He doesn't stop to think about it from her perspective- that Buffy's life has been so characterised by trauma that being with someone who can't isn't reliable will retraumatise her. That's not to say she wants to be with someone who doesn't have their own needs - of course that's how Xander would think about it, any woman who dares to consider her own needs as being equally important as her boyfriend is judged as being selfish or self-involved. Domi, when Riley slid out of bed to go and get a suck-job, made a comment about him doing an Angel. And that's spot on. Buffy's relationships with men have been characterised by a level of unreliableness on their part that is severe and traumatising, and that Riley has added his own name to that list is sad for her. But ultimately not her fault at all. Lastly, can we just stop a sec and marvel at the double standard here? When people think about the situation a lot of people find their sympathies with Riley (as the writers intended, unfortunately) because 'poor Riley, Buffy doesn't love him', but the standards at play in that are baffling to me. Buffy's at fault for 'not loving Riley' (even though she treats him with love, care and intimacy), but Riley can go around betraying her, and that's...fine? Because he's 'not getting his needs met' at home? Fucking gross. I think it might be the pathology and misogyny of the show's creator shining through here, unfortunately.

Bri

Great reaction as always, Domi. As you'll see, Riley (and Xander's) behaviour is quite polarising, and controversial. But please don't take us duking it out in the comments as any reflection on you! We are united in our love for your reactions, Domi!

indaeo

Oh, he had plenty of choices. He "tried everything" but actually talk to her about his issues in their relationship in the first place. Up until she was ambushed with ALL of this, she thought they were fine. And sure, maybe she didn't see the problems herself, but you know, she had a very sick mom, a new mystical key sister, and the world to protect. If he wants to have a relationship with her, he should talk to her when he's unhappy instead of rushing off to feel needed elsewhere and then blaming her for making him do it.

indaeo

When looked at closely after Spike and Buffy left the vamp lair, he was kinda high on his own pettiness having Buffy see Riley like that. But as soon as he saw that Buffy was actually hurt, his entire demeanor changed. He was focusing on the end result, not the pain it would cause. I found that really interesting.

Martin Waits

It's not about Buffy being perfect and I didn't say she was. It's that Xander's premise was completely wrong. Riley is not a "once in a lifetime guy" and thinking that some ok person you're dating when you're 20 is the best you'll ever find has gotten a lot of young people (especially women) into very bad situations.

Veronika

Preach! Couldn't have said it better! <3

Bud Haven

I think we’ve all seen the arguments on each side enough times to get really worked up about them. Mostly.

Ron Fehr

Ditto to all of you. My thoughts too.

Land Howard Johnston

I always despised the Xander speech to Buffy. It's absolutely his worst scene in the entire show up until this point. A lot of other people have commented on why. But I'll also add: Buffy is the once in a lifetime person, not Riley. Never once in this speech does Xander ask if Buffy's happy or feels remotely understood. Xander knows she has severe abandonment issues on top of being the Slayer, mom with brain cancer and Dawn. But Xander pins the blame on her. He even knew weeks prior that Riley was feeling unloved but did he bother to mention it to Buffy, as her friend? He even brushes off Riley getting suckjobs from vampires - again, *while Buffy's mom has brain cancer*. I could not imagine treating my enemy with such emotional disregard, let alone one of my closest friends. It really shows, sadly, how shallow Buffy's support system really is.

Ron Fehr

Glancing through the comments, people seem to want to take one side or the other. It is important to understand both sides to know why the characters say what they say.

Chuck Bartowski

This is just wrong on every level. Xander spoke the truth. Plain and simple.

Carl

Never was a Riley guy, but I felt bad for both characters. I'll say definitely more for Buffy. Just the fact that Buffy's mom was deathly ill alone, to me, makes Riley come off very self absorbed. That's not even taking into account all the other stuff she's been through this season. After Bangel any other relationship is a letdown for me. Although to be honest, I'd live with Cuffy, or Barl! 😜

KT

And from his POV in that moment, Buffy absolutely freaked out when he told her he loved her for the first time. He found out that was Faith later on, but you often can't cleanly undo damage to your self-esteem even when you find out it was a lie. In Enemies, Buffy still felt retraumatized by Angel acting like Angelus, even though she knew the whole time that it was a lie. That intense moment of rejection in Who Are You? may have created a bit of a confirmation bias in Riley, where he was subconsciously looking for evidence that Buffy didn't love him for the rest of their relationship.

KT

I don't think Buffy killing that vampire lady was as bad as you think, I mean she was a vampire. Sparing her might have been an interesting character beat so I too am a little disappointed by the writers' choice to undo it, but I don't think it's even ethically ambiguous. Sure in that instance, the vampire lady was sucking the blood of a consenting person, but also she was doing that for money and can be assumed to be a mass murderer like every other vampire we've met. This would be an odd place for Buffy to start making exceptions.

KT

I made it sound like my opinion is a definitive fact or something, I didn't mean to. These alternative perspectives on something I took for granted are fascinating to me, keep them coming!

Nick Velasquez

The idea of Buffy just sprinting to LA on a whim haha

Marty

What makes me sick ever more is xanders speech to anya “you make me feel like a man” ugh! Basically confirming that buffy is too strong and Riley feels emasculated

Foamy

Love how yall hate on Riley while completely ignoring Spike's toxicity. Some of you shippers are awful people.

Teresa Schultz

This is what I came to say. Buffy killing a soulless vampire doesn’t make her a bad person. It makes her the slayer! (Not that the way she did it didn’t suck a little bit)! But to compare that to what Faith did and how she made the wrong choices after that is not an equal comparison. (And I’m not hating on Faith. I absolutely adore her)!

that bear over there

Riley never loved Buffy. He loved the IDEA of Buffy that he made up in his head. Riley is the typical 'nice guy.' He believes that if he does all the right things, the girl is supposed to act in the exact way he wants. If she doesn't, he is upset with her because HOW DARE SHE be her own person?? He did 'all the right things' so in return she is supposed to be exactly what he wants. From day 1 of finding out about Buffy's past, Riley has a problem with her being stronger than him. After he hears her slayer stories, Riley says "i'm not even sure I can take you." He insists that they spar because he so badly wants to be stronger than her. Riley wants to be the savior- both in this romantic relationship and in general- it's why he signed up for the initiative in the first place. He wants badly to save people and have them see him as the hero. He doesn't get to have that with Buffy because Buffy doesn't need him to save her. Buffy is her own hero. She's independent and this drives Riley insane. Early on, he calls her 'a puzzle that needs to be figured out'--- what he means by that is she is a game that he will play and eventually be victorious at. He doesn't see her as a person, but a challenge to be won. If he actually loved her, he would love that she is independent- that she is way stronger than him- that she is the slayer- that she calls the shots- and is way more special/crucial to the world than him. But he hates all those things about her- he hates all the things that make Buffy who she is at her core. His betrayal of her is two-fold- 1 is that being bitten is a euphoric sexual feeling, but 2 is that Buffy is the slayer and he is 'cheating' with a vampire. So Riley never really loved her. I think the fandom's hatred of Riley is deeper than his cheating. I think it triggers something in anyone who has been in a relationship where the other person doesn't see/accept you for who you are, and instead puts expectations on who you are 'supposed' to be and how you are 'supposed' to act.. Narcissists behave this way- their relation to you is based on what you do for them. It can be a romantic relationship, but it can also be a friendship or relationship with a parent.