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Buffy 6x18 (Extended) - Entropy (Patreon)

Published:
2023-08-11 19:09:31
Edited:
2024-07-16 23:43:23
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

reaction link: click here. 

oh my gosh this episode!!! THAT ENDING!!!!!! yes tara we can skip to anything you could possibly want, my queen!!!!!

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Comments

Wisdom of the Sphynx

Waiting for Spike to drop the “good enough for Buffy line”🫣

Girl4Music

I wish I could say forgive and forget was the right choice. But I couldn’t. Given the way I view that whole ‘Under Your Spell’ situation, I would find it impossible to do what Tara did. Not without Willow fully making amends for what she did anyway. I don’t know. 😐 But I’m happy for your excitement. I just personally don’t feel it’s the right choice.

Girl4Music

Yes, well, that’s why age gaps in relationships aren’t a good thing. Especially when it comes to mentality. Buffy and Angel already showcased this well. And don’t forget that their relationship was also a massive age gap in the illegal way as well as an immoral way.

Girl4Music

Out of Buffy’s significant boyfriend’s Xander never liked Angel or Spike but he got along well with Riley. For me, this tells me that Xander’s issue wasn’t jealousy. It was prejudice. He didn’t like vampires. Soulless or souled. He was very much in the “vampires are pure evil and don’t deserve happiness” category. This was a philosophy that was very much entirely accepted and agreed upon by everyone initially. But then the lines blurred. But not for him. Demon magnet or not. He was prejudiced. I’m fairly sure he would not have the same attitude towards Angel and Spike if they were human like Riley is. And then you look at him and Anya - him being absolutely against of her vengeance demon-y ways. The fact he was horrified with the way Halfrek looked in her vengeance demon physical appearance and worrying if that’s how Anya used to look as a demon.

Todd “Canuck” Schmuck

I often mused that Xanders strong feelings against vampires goes back to the pilot episode(When Xanders best friend became a vampire and he had to stake/kill him). If Xander ever allowed himself to believe that someone could be redeemed after becoming a vampire(like Angel or Spike), then that would mean that maybe he could have found a way to Save Jesse and not have to have killed his best friend. Easier to be certain they can’t be redeemed then live with that guilt.

Ron Fehr

What kind of music was Xander listening to? I thought country music was the music of pain. That's what he said when Buffy turned him down in Prophecy Girl at the end if season one.

Girl4Music

If there was any canon on-screen evidence to support this theory, then yeah, I’d agree. But they treat death - whether it be for the living or the dead - so callously in this show. I wish we had gotten to see Xander grappling with that grief and loss in the same way we see it with Joyce’s passing. I mean Domi mentioned Larry in this reaction. His death happened at the end of Season 3 but it is used for laughs in this very season of all seasons. They just sort of move on from it as if it never mattered. Harmony - also the same: when the gang find out that she’s now a vampire they act as if it was inevitable or something because Harmony’s just that dumb to allow herself to be bitten by a vampire and then be forced to drink their blood to turn. Other than ‘The Body’ they never treat the passing on of any of the characters properly. And I feel like it’s because the writers just want to skim passed the depressing/boring bits. Even in a season that’s meant to be viewed as depressing/boring. Next episode proves this even more. It’s like no one really cares. It’s just something I have trouble with getting passed along with rape/sexual assault situations. The serious implications of both these things are just not addressed at all when they’re absolutely huge. I mean I mentioned in a few comments already how Tara just forgives and forgets about Willow practically date-raping her. Something like that in real life would not be just forgiven and forgotten just like that - if at all. It’s a serious violation. There is more outrage at Xander leaving Anya at the altar than there ever is for what Willow did to Tara and it makes no sense to me. What Xander did was emotionally devastating but he immediately regrets it. What Willow did is absolutely fucking horrific and she never ever gives a shit at all. 🫤 They never ever show her regretting or feeling guilty whatsoever for doing that to Tara. She never even says sorry. Tara just forgives her and forgets about it. I just… It’s not realistic. This is the times where I’m reminded that it’s a fantasy/supernatural show. It’s not supposed to be realistic. If it was: the first thing Tara would do would be to take out a restraining order on Willow to make sure that she’d never come near her again. There would be no forgiveness or forgetting because you don’t forgive or forget rape/sexual assault and domestic abuse. Which is what she did to her was. But yeah - these two very serious things - death and rape/sexual assault - never get treated properly for being as serious as they are. And that’s on the writers. So I wish I could say I agree with your theory that Xander’s prejudice of vampires/demons is because of the trauma of having to kill Jesse. But I just don’t think that’s the case given how they treat his death. How they just move on from it as if him being his best friend never even mattered because his character never even mattered. He was just the early world-building where there was no blurred lines with vampires/demons. I love the Buffyverse but I’ve got to admit that there’s a lot of problems regarding all I’ve just said and sadly, they’re very rarely brought up in the fandom. I understand that it’s a dated show and it’s a product of its time. But these problems should still be acknowledged and addressed. Especially considering the recent exposure of Whedon’s abuse.

Ron Fehr

The look of realization when Spike entered the Magic Box was priceless. You knew just what Anya was thinking.

Girl4Music

Willow Rosenberg VS Xander Harris: “The war crimes are fictional but my annoyance is real.” Maybe it’s a male VS female gender stereotype thing. I don’t know. But I just don’t get all the hate. Willow does a hell of a lot worse to Tara than Xander ever does to Anya. It’s a whole other degree. If anything, the couple that should be making up is Xander and Anya and never Willow and Tara. Am I the only one that can see that as logical? Yes, Xander left Anya at the altar and broke up with her. It’s humiliating and devastating for her. I get it. But Willow fucking mind controls and date-rapes Tara. And they’re the ones getting back together. I mean… 😐🤷‍♀️😑 I really don’t see anything that Xander does to Anya or Anya does to Xander as worse. They can and should work their drama out. Willow should never be allowed near Tara ever again! She deserves a restraining order for the shit she’s done to her! But this is a TV show and it’s drama for the sake of drama. So of course none of the serious stuff matters because rape/sexual assault gets waivered no problem in this show. Just like that people ignore it. Oh… unless they’re a soulless vampire or a little meanie. But the protagonists? Nope, nothing. 🤦‍♀️ I’m sorry but I just don’t share in the outrage over Xander because for me Willow is way way worse!

Girl4Music

Weigh the pros and cons: Which is a worse crime? Which is abusive? I’m going to put these two couples and their situations into perspective to explain why one should get back together and one shouldn’t. That it should be the other way around to what it is even in a fantasy TV show. Xander and Anya simply have to get over their heartbreak. Their situation is reconcilable. They treat it like it’s not while in the same breath exonerate a domestic abuser and date-rapist. Willow personally putting Tara in danger out of self-interest. Not really caring at all about her feelings about it at any point. Xander abandoning a wedding and breaking up with Anya in case danger happens to her by his personal hand. Xander humiliates Anya and breaks her heart. It’s emotionally devastating but it is not violating. It is not abuse or assault. Willow erases Tara’s memories and then has sex with her. It is domestic violence. It is rape/sexual assault by deception. It doesn’t even come close which is worth all the outrage. There shouldn’t be 3 full episodes about Xander and Anya and not even 1 episode about Willow and Tara. It should be the other way around. Willow has extreme reparations to make to be allowed to be in Tara’s life (and body) ever again. Xander and Anya simply have to get over their heartbreak because that’s all it is. It escalates into something it never should be while Willow just gets forgiven by Tara for doing so much worse. The way these two couples situations this season are treated are the wrong way around. Backwards. Twisted. Ridiculous. This is what reminds you that it’s just a fantasy TV show and not real life because in real life, this would not be the way it is.

zerofk

One of the things that always stood out to me in this episode is that Anya and Willow hug. There was a time they barely tolerated each other. The turning point was probably Triangle, but this is the first time we see genuine care between them, perhaps even affection. Even in The Body Willow was more angry at Anya, though her breakdown may have helped Willow relate to her more.

Girl4Music

They’ve come a long way. I wish there was more discourse surrounding this dynamic. There’s a lot there. I’ve provided some meta here and there but I just want others to take a crack at it. They’re so interesting.

Ron Fehr

Regarding Angel, I think that relationship had a little jealousy mixed in at the start.

Girl4Music

Oh yes, definitely. But still, it was driven by prejudice at the same time.

Ron Fehr

My upbringing has taught me that forgiveness is always an option. It reminds me of something that Giles once said to Buffy. Forgiveness isn't given because it's deserved, but because it's needed. It seems to me that Tara thought the same way and was ready to forgive Willow.

Girl4Music

But something that egregious shouldn’t be forgiven unless amends are made for it. Willow cries a few tears and she’s let back in.

Dee Aitch

"I think we're gonna need some big episodes. I think we're gonna need some big things to happen." Wish granted.

Sunbak-Argent Dawn EU

I like this last episode of Buffy. Shame they never made any more after this.

nataly

Oh boy, I just remembered what episode this is. :(

Ron Fehr

We'll have to agree to disagree. Even if Willow didn't deserve it, Tara was still willing to forgive her.

Terri

I think people sometimes forget this show was made in a different time too with entirely different moral principles. I find that people that were born later (younger people) find it impossible to understand the morals/values of that time and how they've changed. What is viewed as really bad now wasn't viewed that way back then. So the writers never intended the audience to see certain things in characters. For example, the age gap between Buffy and both Spike/Angel. That was not even a consideration back then. People were fine with their fictional TV being that way because they knew the characters weren't real. It was all for drama, so it was fine. An immortal vampire being in love with a slayer was poetic, heavy and dramatic. That is why they did it. Not to analyze the morality of it all. Same with Willow and Tara. They wanted to show Willow having a problem with magic and crossing the line. The audience was supposed to see that she betrayed and lied to Tara. Not that she raped her and that sort of thing. I doubt that was even discussed as rape in the writers room at the time. Yes, in retrospect we obviously can see that's the case. However, I think it becomes problematic to apply today's morals on shows made decades ago. The times were different. You have to view it from a lens of what was INTENDED rather than what is now applicable. I'm sure there is a TON of things in today's TV/movies that people 20 years from now will criticize. But obviously, TV is made for the present audience...not with consideration for the future.

Ron Fehr

Just to clarify, I wasn't debating Willow's deservedness of forgiveness. I just saw it as something Willow neeeded in order to mend her's and Tara's relationship. Forgiveness is an act of mercy. Nobody can earn forgiveness. It's a decision by the offended party to forgive.

Girl4Music

I see your point. Very well written. I think this is my tendency because I only ever watch dated shows. Not recent stuff. But obviously, I’ve grown up in this era where things like rape/sexual assault are taken much more seriously. I never really consider that that was not the case when this and other shows like it was made. The awareness and education surrounding that subject back then was limited in that, while date-rape and statutory rape did exist, they were never as prevalent a problem as your traditional physical force and struggle. As that was the only form of rape/sexual assault that was registered as such. Nowadays the absence of informed consent in any party is what can constitute as rape/sexual assault and unfortunately there are many non-consent situations and violations in ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’, sexual and otherwise, that aren’t addressed. Many of which by the main protagonists too. That’s what makes this particular situation hard to swallow and why I cannot understand Tara forgiving Willow just like that. Thank you both for making me see a different perspective - one that doesn’t really belong in this era. Because that’s very relevant considering the show was not made for this era. I’m very sorry.

Khanach

Made it, yay! Six episodes in a row :) This time I’m not adding anything after that last scene cause… nuff said! Ps: I can’t believe you forgot the name of the last Trio member! His name is Tucker’s Brother 🤣

Alex Wright

I suspect it was jealousy too. Remember how sophomore Xander reacted to Buffy turning him down in Prophecy Girl. But by the time Buffy was a college freshman Xander had (1) started to grow up a tad and (2) had a second girlfriend of his own.

Alex Wright

Remembering my own mindset the first time I watched this season - as it aired on Sky 1 in the UK - it didn't even occur to me that Willow's spell on Tara was tantamount to sexual assault. So I sort of understand the show treating being left at the altar as more serious. Despite Tara's line about violating her mind. In retrospect, in Superstar one of Jonathan's crimes was also likely sexual assault if you think about it. The episode Dead Things really did clarify my mindset on consent, "love spells" and other magic for ever more. And I can never look at Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered in quite the same way again.

X-man

The show and the fandom have treated Xander and Willow differently from the beginning. >Remember how the storylines played out with Xander and Willow reacting to rejection, being jealous of other people, and trying to use someone else for comfort. -Xander got rejected by Buffy in the season 1 finale and handled it poorly. He got jealous of Angel. And later tried to ask Willow on a date as a rebound. He got hated on by fans and got shot down by Willow for even trying to use her. He was forced to redeem himself by saving Buffy's life. -Willow did the same thing as Xander. She got angry at Xander for dating Cordelia. Then got jealous and rude towards any woman who Xander was dating (Cordy, Faith, Anya). She tried to get Oz to kiss her in order to get her mind off of Xander. Instead of being shut down, like Xander was in season 1, she received a heartwarming speech about waiting for the right time. >Xander and Willow BOTH cheated on their significant partners during season 3. But, Xander gets the majority of the punishment from fans and the show. -Willow gets back together with Oz within a few episodes. We never see Oz's point of view on the situation. And fans just gloss over it. -Xander never gets back together with Cordelia. Cordy gets entire episodes showing her perspective and sympathizing with her. So the way fans and the show treat this Anya-Xander things vs. the Willo-Tara thing is in tune with the show's history.

Girl4Music

That’s sad. Xander has his issues and flaws for sure but to me, he is nowhere near as morally questionable as Willow is. He doesn’t put people in danger. He doesn’t abuse his loved ones. He very rarely exhibits anger and he is never violent. Not a human anyway. Willow on the other hand… Well, I know it’s because she had complex trauma with her insecurities of not feeling worthy enough and blah blah blah. But she self-sabotages and self-corrupts… so in all honesty, she just puts it all on herself and others pay the price for it. They’re not comparable in my eyes. And I’m saying this as somebody who regards Willow as their favourite Buffyverse character.

StephanieB

Oh Terri, THIS. This is exactly right and well said. SA was an incredibly common plot point in films and television at the time and was not viewed through the same lens as it is today. Just for reference, Revenge of the Nerds and Sixteen Candles are two very popular ‘80s teen films that prominently featured SA in which the “victims” did not mind being violated and in fact fell for their assailants. And at the time no one called out any issues with those storylines, even YEARS afterwards. BtVS came on the scene 15 years later but those were the films that surely shaped the mentality of the show’s writers- and viewers.