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Buffy 6x21 (Extended) - Two To Go (Patreon)

Published:
2023-09-08 18:00:04
Edited:
2024-07-16 23:58:55
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

reaction link: click here. 

not a crier™ status? SECURED!

but also, i'm literally screaming over this ending i just?!?!?!?!?! oh my oh my.... see u all in the season finale <3

Files

Comments

Steveo

I've probably watched this episode 30+ times and I just noticed the bathroom sign in the magic box five seconds before Domi did 😂

Richard Ashton

Giles has obviously read his copy of 'Magic for Dummies' and 'Defence Against The Dark Arts - Muggle Edition'.

Girl4Music

Jonathan. That poor boy had seen Willow’s darker side pretty much before anyone else did that I’m so surprised he is so shocked. She traumatised him. It’s kinda funny looking back at their interactions with him being one of the Trio. Like he knew she could be like this from the get go. That she had it in her to be so domineering and loved to wield power and authority. Yet he is so shocked at the turn of events of Season 6 for her character. I expected him to be the character that was like “She used to lock me in an empty classroom with her to interrogate me and made me nearly piss myself.”

Girl4Music

Yeah, well the thing is that Willow never wants to sit with her emotions. She’s always trying to avoid or escape from them. She’s like Faith in that way. Disassociate from reality. Go into self-denial and then self-destruct. “Willow hasn’t done anything that’s makes her irredeemable.” Oh, she has for me. And it wasn’t when she was Dark Willow.

AlyAdmirer

As others have already noted, like "Welcome to the Hellmouth"/"The Harvest" and "Bargaining" Parts 1 & 2, 6x21 and 6x22 were originally broadcast in two hour movie format. And my then significant other spent the entire commercial break between this ending and the start of the next portion just exclaiming "Giles!" at each other. :-)

Raven Dark

Domi: Whatever Willow wants to do, I will support her. Willow to Dawn: Time to go back to being a little energy ball. Me to Domi: You were saying? :D

Raven Dark

I love this episode, but there are two things I have never liked. One, when Andrew makes the Star Wars references and Xander says, "You've never had any tiny bit of sex, have you?" I hate the whole nerds are creeps who can't get girls trope as it is, which is why I'm not the biggest fan of the Trio, but Xander makes it worse when he implies that because Andrew likes Star Wars, that's what makes him the creepy nerd who can't have had sex. Not only does it paint anyone who likes Star Wars (or similar shows or movies) as weirdos who deserve to be mocked, but it implies that if you are a nerd, you can't possibly be capable of getting a girl (or a guy, or whatever--you know what I mean). He sounded like a fucking high school bully, and it's just shitty writing. Nerd-shaming at its finest. The other thing I don't like is the way Buffy talks to Jonathan when she says, "Now do you remember that thing we talked about?" The tone, the look on her face, it's just always made her sound like a Mean Girl. Jonathan was legitimately trying to help, and she just comes across as a bitchy prom queen who happens to know how to kick ass. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Trio, and I do like that Buffy and Xander made it clear they're saving them to keep Willow from going to a place she can't come back from. I think that was necessary, and I know Andrew and Jonathan are far from innocent in this whole thing. I just don't like stereotyping, I think the show could have done better than that, and it felt a weird-ass decision to have Jonathan be legit helpful and then have Buffy and Xander undermine it, but in such a way that it feels like we're supposed to think it's funny or okay.

Derek Garrard

It's also really OoC for Xander, the guy who recognized some of the Trio's writings as Klingon love poems and got excited over their pictures of Deanna Troi. Xander is a big nerd too and sometimes the writer of the episode just straight up forgets that.

Raven Dark

I know! I thought of mentioning that, but I thought I was already getting too soap-boxy as it is. LOL

Zachary Becker

I think Xander was more giving him crap for being such a nerd in that specific way in that specific moment. It's not that "Andrew is a nerd", it's that Andrew is making Star Wars references in a completely inappropriate time because it is his entire personality. I am a Star Wars fan, I make Star Wars references, and am probably, fairly, considered a nerd, but it's not so much my personality that I am making Star Wars references in times that call for me to be serious. Xander is a nerd himself, and sometimes makes jokes at inappropriate times, but his level of "nerdness" is more appropriate than the Trio's level of nerdness.

Raven Dark

Okay, I get that, and I hate to sound like *that guy*, but why not have him say something like, "Wow. You really out-nerded yourself there, didn't ya?", as in, he's being too nerdy even for a nerd, or, (in a stage whisper), "Hey, ass-face, your nerd is showing,". to suggest this isn't the time. Or. if Xander wants to nerd him back, "Sit down, or I'm gonna shove my foot up your ass and send you straight to Tatooine." I dunno. LOL They're off the top of my head, so you're not going to get stellar dialogue here. It's not Xander's point that's the problem, it's the execution. I'm not the type to think everything is meant to target one group or another these days, either. I'm really not. But the use of a reference to lack of sex specifically gives the feeling of nerd-shaming, and for me, it's cringe. Although I don't entirely hate the Trio, and I think some parts of how they are used are great, there is an underlying message with them that nerds are all creepy guys who can't get dates, and this feels like more of the same. Worse, this isn't the only time it happens this season. It happens a lot. Also, I want to make it clear here that these are only my opinions. Domi seemed to like both parts I mentioned, and I hold nothing against her or anyone else for that. And, these are small nit-picks. I love this episode, and those issues don't even really bring it down for me.

Lime Pie

Xander is repeatedly depicted as very insecure, especially about his own nerdiness. I always took his remark as further evidence of that. He is lashing out at Andrew because he is already on edge with him for hurting his friends, but maybe he is also angry at himself for relating to someone he detests. As for Buffy, she has every right to be the mean girl in this scenario. Buffy is also on edge, but it is good for her to set boundaries to make sure they understand they still need to pay for what they did.

Raven Dark

Interesting takes. This is one of the things I love about reaction channels (aside from the reactions themselves). I love exploring character and story in healthy debates where others can show perspectives we might not otherwise see.

zerofk

You woke your sister up at 7? If my brother did that to me - or the other way around - there'd be fratricide. Something that always hits me is when Dawn mentions Tara in Rack's place. Willow is taken aback, almost like she forgot about her. It wasn't about Tara anymore, it was about the power. For a second, it looks like Willow is remembering and may turn back. But then the addiction takes hold again and she lashes out even stronger against Dawn.

Girl4Music

But then they go the other way and added in the joke in ‘Bargaining Part 1’ of Anya getting the Urn Of Osiris seller to throw in a “limited edition backstreet boys lunch box” and I was like “whenever in the hell was Xander into boy bands?” It should have been a Spider-Man lunch box. But yeah, they just throw in these stupid jokes every once in awhile for comedic relief. And it’s really not funny if it’s not in character. They do it in comedy sitcoms all the time and it’s infuriating. It’s why I don’t watch them. I like my camp and satire but that’s as far as I’ll go when it comes to comedy because at least with camp and satire it can be self-referential. In which case they’d point out how a joke in the script may or may not be in/out of character. Put the nerd shaming down to Doug Petrie not really understanding Xander’s character and the Buffy stuff just her being under stress and using intimidation to alleviate it.

Girl4Music

That’s also her firmly shutting the door on grief though. She doesn’t want to return to that and she blocks it out with her anger and accumulation of power. Just like an emotional addict would if they didn’t want to face their reality and disassociate from themselves. The part where she’s dogging on herself in third-person and then switches to first when she thinks about Tara and how Tara made her feel. She had a moment of processing her grief, then the next, she’s back to feeling anger and hatred. She’s in a spiral of hate/anger and then pain/grief and she’s trying to block the latter out as much as possible. Tara is the only thing that brings her back to herself but it never lasts because the moment she thinks about her, she remembers that she’s been cruelly taken from her… and then it all starts all over again. It’s called an emotional spiral and Willow unconsciously split-personalities herself to remove herself from the reality that Tara is dead and that she’s doing something she wouldn’t want to see her doing. It’s all very relatable.

George Baxter

I think Domi is completely wrong about Giles leaving. And yes, I dont usually argue in the extremes, but Domi doesnt acknowledge any of Giles' legitimate reasons for leaving so why should I acknowledge any of her legitimate reasons for him staying?? Giles is a human being, not just a parental figure. He's also very importantly not Buffy's real parent! Yes he loves her but he's also made it pretty clear that she needs to stand on her own feet to grow up, something she was never going to do with him around. It's not a betrayal it's a legitimate parental decision to step back, the alternative literally is eternal financial and emotional support. And when we say emotional, Buffy is ignoring her sister and friends turmoil whilst expecting Giles to paper over the cracks. Ultimately it's asking a lot for this former librarian/ watcher to support Buffy by staying, especially when he knows she is capable of more. Co-dependence vs Independence. Is Buffy struggling? Yes. But Giles doesnt have the cure for life or Buffy's death.

Ron Fehr

Buffy's main concern for Willow now is her thirst for taking human life, something Buffy would never do. The saying is 'a life for a life.' That means One life for One life. Willow accomplished that, and that's where it should stop.

Ron Fehr

I don't like disagreeing with Domi, but you're right. She's not a parental figure, so I'm guessing that may be why she doesn't seem to want to see things from his perspective (sorry, Domi). And I think the points that you make are totally valid. I was always close to my parents, but they taught me and my siblings to be independent. They didn't smother us in that regard.

Dee Aitch

I mean nerds were people that couldn't get girls. Maybe that's changed, but it's time-accurate. And Andrew was acting even nerdier than Xander ever does, so his burn is appropriate. You can criticize it as "dated", but you can't criticize it as "wrong."

George Baxter

Right? I get that we identify with Buffy but Giles is presumably also a person. Doesn’t he have a life or family back in England? Why is that never explored?? I guess for the same reason we never seem to meet Xander’s family or Willow’s… it’s a weirdly subjective show. But it’s very glass half empty for Domi to see Giles’ action as a betrayal. Like Giles hasn’t provided loyalty and connection outside his remit as a disgraced Watcher already!!

Crabash

I was in my late 20s when buffy came out, I was into video games, had been since space invaders in the 70s. I was very much seen as a child for liking "nerdy" things. But hey screw those people who refused to watch Buffy back then and laughed at me. Turned out to be one of the greatest shows ever, still. It was those people who lost out. My point was that yes this is the way people thought back then. Truth is those haters always wanted to fire up my console or PC when there was no one else there.

Raven Dark

LOL I'm with you there, Crabash. Buffy is life. :D

Girl4Music

Blood lust does not look good on her.

Bud Haven

But did it help at all? As a result of Giles' leaving Buffy entered into a toxic relationship with Spike and became even more distant to the people around her. She really did need his support and was even more damaged after he left. I'm with Domi on this.

Ava Sinclair

I was so excited watching your reaction to this episode. I was so afraid I'd never see you smile or be excited for this show again, and it made me so happy to see your reaction to SurpriseGiles. There was just so much in this episode and damn, Alyson Hannigan is killing it. The way she can terrify me and break my heart at the same time omg. The conversation where Buffy tries to talk her down and Willow calls her out on her total BS is one of my favorites, as is their showdown. Do I like to see them fighting? Hell no but is it totally exciting to see how powerful Willow really is, and how she truly can rival Buffy if she wants to? Battle of the Bad Asses UM HELL YEAH! I am very much looking forward to you watching the finale!

Ava Sinclair

Oh and also I pretty much feel the same way you do about Giles leaving. I mean, I get it, kinda....she was getting really dependent on him. But just pulling up stakes and leaving her after she'd lost so much already...NOT COOL GILES. Way to make her (and us) feel super abandoned - also it's pretty clear Buffy was not the only one who needed him. But I love him too much...I love all of them so I guess I just have to accept they are not perfect and they make mistakes. Giles is no exception. There is another mistake I think he made but I will talk more about that after you watch an episode or two of season 7.

Ava Sinclair

I AM a parent and I'm with Domi. If I had been through the trauma Buffy went through, even as someone who has been an adult for decades and not years, and my mom was there for me initially but then was like 'peace out you gotta handle this yourself' and LEFT THE DAMN COUNTRY I'd need an extra decade of industrial strength therapy to deal with the abandonment issues. Yeah Giles is not her father but he's firmly established and accepted the role of father figure to her for years and he knows better than anyone she does not have anyone else to be in that position for her. Not to mention, he has the responsibility as her Watcher and facilitator to all her trauma - she didn't ask to be Chosen, and to go through horrors and the certainty of an untimely, traumatic death. He showed up and told a fifteen year old it was her responsibility to suffer and die for the world and he promised her he'd be there to guide her through it. If he wanted her to stop being so dependent on him he could have set boundaries. But at the end of the day, we all know this is because ASH wanted to move back to England irl and the show had to accommodate that - totally understandable, so like I said in another comment I accept that my favorites make mistakes...but hell yes I do believe that was a HUGE mistake on Giles's part.

George Baxter

I would argue these are mistakes Buffy would have made regardless. The toxic path is regrettable but Giles doesnt have a solution for coming back from the dead. And btw, Buffy doesnt take advice from Giles on personal matters! Not with Angel, certainly not with Spike. He's taught her how to fight and be a rational leader, she has a strong support system. I just think Giles has the right to leave and thats not a betrayal. It's not like this is the first time he's indicated that he wants to be elsewhere. Since season 4 he's had doubts about his relevance in the group. Hell the reason they dont talk much on the phone is Buffy and Giles dont really have much they want to talk about. 'abandonment' is a strong word and implies that Giles is completely defined by his relationship to Buffy. Which is just co-dependence at the end of the day

Ron Fehr

I'm not sure I understand your views on wanting Jonathan and Andrew dead. The worst that they did was partake in Warren's schemes. It seemed to me that he basically came up with the ideas, and that the other two just went along because they wanted to be part of a gang. Remember that it was Warren's idea to form the gang in the first place. They were not the ones who killed Tara. Their guilt ended with their arrest.

Zachary Becker

My biggest argument against him leaving is that they made a big deal about him getting reinstated as Buffy's watcher in season 5, and getting paid from the Watcher's Council to do so. I am not sure how Buffy's death affected this, but considered she is struggling for money, and continues to satisfy her role as the slayer, it seems like if Giles is getting paid, he should be tossing a few bucks Buffy's way.

Vicky N

The double standards. If you ca forgive Angelus for killing Jenny, Willow for abusing Tara (neither of them expressed remorse about it), why can’t you do the same about Spike? And by the way before I am attacked in the replies , I don’t condone what Spike did.

George Baxter

I think it’s pretty likely Giles still is sending Buffy money. I don’t think it’s ever explicitly said he isn’t and he was definitely giving her money prior to leaving. That doesn’t mean she shouldn’t be working or that they don’t need more money to be sustainable. Maybe Buffy stopped taking his checks because she felt betrayed by him leaving. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Not sure how Giles’ employment works if he leaves his post. But his argument that there’s nothing more he can teach her is legitimate. Imagine how irrelevant he must feel? especially since Buffy has never really followed his personal advice. And yea she’s on a destructive path but it’s clear his lecturing is having no impact. So really if Giles had stuck around wouldn’t this have all just played out in front of him? Tara would still have most likely died. The difference is Buffy never realised that she used him as a responsibility scapegoat. Which is fair, she’s barely 20, but that’s just the hard reality every kid has to learn to be an adult. Bad things happen and your parents can’t stop them all!

Girl4Music

Even hear that old saying? “If you kill me, you become like me.” Well… Warren: “I was wondering when Super Bitch would show up.” Willow: “Get off Super Bitch.” And there’s way more similarities than just that.

nick mangialino

Not true Buffy tried to kill Faith for Angel

Ron Fehr

Oh yeah, that's right. Sorry, I forgot.

Rio de Tanana

Nobody talking about how good Alyson Hanagan was in those fight scenes. You can see her doing a lot of her own kicks and other moves.

Alex Wright

Also - we don't think about it since she's such a great character and it's played for laughs - but Anya as a human never seemed to express remorse for her millennia of crimes as a vengeance demon. And presumably she did have a soul all along?

Zoé Turcotte

Girl Dark willow is the best thing ever for a mega super villain the dark side of willow is invincible she don’t died and she is so much powerful

Nicamon

Personally I can forgive Angel because it wasn't HIM who killed Miss Calendar: it was ANGELUS. I WOULD do the same with Spike if Souless Spike and Souled Spike had 2 distinct personalities like Angel and Angelus, but it's not like that and this is PRECISELY the reason why I hate Spike so much as a character: because he behaves like a souled being even when he's not, from ep 5x18 on. About Willow... she has always been my favorite character, I'm physically unable to not forgive her something, but I will say this: Amy was right when she said: "No one cares how hard you work. You just care about cute, sweet Willow! (...) SHE ALMOST DESTROYED THE WORLD and yet everybody keeps loving her?!?" She's right!! She's absolutely right! I am far too biased towards her! Want a culprit? Blame Alyson Hannigan's cute face!! I just can't stay mad at her!

Nicamon

"she needs to stand on her own feet to grow up, something she was never going to do with him around." In general you (meaning both YOU and Giles) would be right, but you don't leave someone you love alone JUST RIGHT AFTER you discovered she's clinically depressed!! Giles' decision was not wrong, THE TIMING totally was!!X-[

Nicamon

I'd add the virgin-shame to the nerd-shame. As an asexual person I deeply hate whenever someone mocks whoever doesn't have sex, for whatever reason. And as an asexual who is DEEPLY ROMANTIC I equally hate the implication that if you never had/will have sex it ALSO means you never had/will have a girlfriend. I DO wanna have a girlfriend and I DON'T wanna have sex. Romantic attraction and sexual attraction are 2 distinct things! Also, the Virgin Shaming for men is precisely the masculine version of the Slut Shaming for women: they're equally bad!😡💢