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Buffy 6x22 (Extended) - Grave (Patreon)

Published:
2023-09-22 18:55:16
Edited:
2024-07-16 23:59:09
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

reaction link: click here. 

oh man, WHAT A FREAKING FINALE!!!! buffy season 6 i love you (((if we forget about that whole 6x19 thingy))).

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Comments

Girl4Music

*Domi posts reaction for the Season 6 finale. Puts off everything I have to do for the next couple of hours just to watch it* I’m here everybody. Just so you know. 😁 My question for the Season 6 recap…. Do you believe they made up for the trauma of ‘Seeing Red’ with the catharsis that is ‘Grave’? No? Why? Yes? Why? No comment? Fair enough. Just genuinely curious.

Keenan White

Maaaan I called it! I just knew that this shot was going to be your thumb nail! ❤️

Wisdom of the Sphynx

Hope you will feel 100% as soon as possible ❤️‍🩹. Starting to watch now ☺️

Derek Garrard

You're right. Spike is irredeemable and nothing he can do will ever be good enough. Now, back to rooting for Angel! The vampire working to find redemption after multiple lifetimes of vicious murder, rape, and torture... wait a minute...

Girl4Music

“You deserve that Spike, so long as it makes you feel bad. I still hate you.” I think you’re the only reactor that’s reacted to this episode that’s understood that the demon granting Spike his soul isn’t a reward. It’s precisely meant to be what it is for Angel. A curse. To him, anyway. Demons don’t look kindly on a soul. I mean they don’t look kindly at all… but especially about the soul. It’s supposed to be an awful, horrific thing that a demon has a soul. Something that makes them separated and segregated from demon life - the demon way. This demon is cursing Spike. Not rewarding him. He doesn’t deserve redemption either way. Neither as a demon, nor as a human. Certainly not as a hero. You’re the only person that’s understood that. Well done.

Girl4Music

Yes. The Willow/Dark Willow dichotomy is very reminiscent of Angel/Angelus. Only we have no problem understanding that Willow and Dark Willow are exactly the same entity. Dissociative identity disorder is what is being represented with Dark Willow. Willow is separating herself from herself by embracing her darkest side. It’s the only way she can cope with the grief and pain that’s reckoning her entire psychology and physiology. By dissociating from it. Closing and locking the door on grief and pain by opening and keeping the door wide open on anger and hate. But of course the only way she can pass through and survive is by being brave enough to reopen the door on grief and pain. And she doesn’t reopen it willingly. She needs help. What she does do willingly is walk through. And that’s enough. That’s all that’s required. To allow herself to feel her humanity again. And the reason why it works is because what Xander does is the same thing as what Tara would do. Remind her that she is loved and she is wanted regardless of her bad behaviour. People don’t receive forgiveness because they deserve it. They receive it because they need it. Because they do not have the capacity to give themselves the validation and love and support that they need to be a better person. Xander is the only one that does not shame Willow. Does not try to make her feel bad for what she is doing. Does not try to punish her or judge her. He simply just stands in her way as Tara would and tells her that if the world is ending anyway, may as well be at her side because that’s what he wants when the end is nigh. That’s where he would want to be. It’s enough for Willow. There didn’t need to be a conflict, a fight, a war. No oppositions of good Vs evil/right Vs wrong. Just love. And the fact it comes from the character that normally puts his foot in his mouth and makes everything much worse with his words. That is absolutely *chef’s kiss*.

Girl4Music

It feels extremely ironic that in Season 6 what’s left behind is Buffy’s spirit - her zest for life - because her metaphorical spirit - Willow - brought her back to life. It’s that kind of irony that’s more poetic than coincidental. Almost as if it’s set up that way. Buffy losing her spirit or at least being at odds with it. And by the end of the season she’s really fighting for it back. Trying to regain what’s lost and missing within. And so the moment Buffy crawls out of the ditch her and Dawn fall in being the same moment Willow comes back from the brink of losing her humanity… It’s all ironically poetic. And I don’t know how to feel about it other than “jesus this show has great writing”. I may have to do a whole rewatch and focus my attention completely on Buffy’s metaphorical parts and that may mean that I will have to combine the concept of my favourite episode in the whole show and one of my least favourite episodes in the show. Not sure I’m ready for that at all. But I may have to be. ‘Normal Again’ is an unpleasant experience for me but I may be able to appreciate it if I watch it through what ‘Restless’ did with Buffy’s metaphorical parts. There’s a reason why it’s an episode in Season 6 after all. I just have to unpack the metaphorical meaning. And so I will have to rewatch it a good few times over. I don’t like retcon art/entertainment. I really don’t. But I do acknowledge that there’s a reason for it.

nick mangialino

That Xander/Willow scene is my favorite of the series. He saved his best friend and the world with just his words and unconditional love and remember last episode he said “I’m not the hero of this piece” well you just became the hero of this piece. That’s why Xander is considered the heart of the group.

Girl4Music

Hopefully you understand why this episode is called ‘Grave’ now. Of course they didn’t mean a physical death. That’s already happened. They meant the metaphorical death of depression and despair and addiction. They meant to heal. To live. Not to die. We come out of a grave as much as we go into one throughout all cycles of our life. There is death and rebirth all the time. That’s just evolution. That’s just the way this human being shit works. It’s a spiral of birth, life and death. ‘Grave’ means to be buried and resurrected. And we do that - symbolically - always.

KiwiJello

I am supposed to be building a shield for my color guard student, but THIS is way more important. Kid can wait for shield. Domi. Buffy. Done!

Girl4Music

The beautiful platonic love of Willander In this dynamic is a lifetime of friendship. The way Willow responds to the aggressive way Xander is reacting in ‘The Body’ - knowing he needs something to be angry at. Something to attack. Then Xander wilfully being the attacked when Willow needs to direct her rage and pain at something in ‘Grave’. I don't think there's two other characters in the whole show that understand each other so naturally. It's just so beautiful what they have. In ‘The Body’ Tara is Xander when he kisses her forehead. It’s the only way to calm Willow down from her anxiety attack. Look how Willow plays with his shirt collar while he kisses her forehead. God this scene is so beautifully directed. It tells me so much about her. About the way she deals. For me, it just proves all the more for me that the only person who could calm Willow down in ‘Grave’ and stop her from causing World’s End was Xander. Because he knew the secret that Tara knew. What Willow really needed was to allow herself to feel her grief rather than push or pull away from it. Death affects her in a way it doesn’t with anyone else in the show and ‘The Body’, ‘Bargaining’ and ‘Grave’ show this. Show her desperation for and to control death.

Girl4Music

“If anything it makes me love her even more.” Precisely the same for me. I love her evil arc. I do. It’s realistic. It’s relatable. It’s resonatable. Yeah, she’s a turd. But we all can be. I mean I don’t think I’d ever result to date-raping my girlfriend but - that aside. As far as irredeemable actions and choices go, Willow’s are genuinely ones that a lot of questionable people in real life would make had they gone through the same things that she does. She’s lost the love of her life and her whole world has turned black. It’s understandable.

Girl4Music

“The moment where Willow was holding Anya it reminded me of Jenny and her snapped neck” And the Dark Willow/Angelus parallels just keep on coming. The only thing is though is that Angelus is truly evil and irredeemable. That’s not the case with Dark Willow. Again, because they’re the same entity and Angel/Angelus are depicted as separate entities. As the Two Ships of Theseus. You can question as to whether they are the same ship or not. But it’s not clear. And it’s not the way they treat it in canon. Especially in ‘BtVS’. Angel is not Angelus/Angelus is not Angel. That’s how we’re supposed to see it. With Dark Willow we can see it’s ‘just Willow’.

Girl4Music

“I just don’t want to look at this man’s face. He raped Buffy.” I get it and I’m not gonna get on your case for your view of it but please acknowledge that Willow and Warren do the same thing. And especially that Willow was successful. You asked whether anything Willow has done - will do - would make her irredeemable. And it’s not anything she does as “Dark Willow’. It’s what she does as an abusive partner to Tara. And while I get that the show does not frame it as rape/sexual assault - it unfortunately is exactly that from the definition of what rape/sexual assault is. Date-rape is a form of it. No it’s not as visually horrific as physically forced rape/sexual assault. But it’s still very much is rape/sexual assault if one or both parties are participating in sexual intimacy nonconsenually. And Tara was manipulated. It wasn’t just a lie and Tara acted out of being unaware to that lie. Her mentality was altered through the influence of magic = drugs. There was no way she would have consented to any kind of sexual or even emotional intimacy with Willow if it wasn’t. If Willow didn’t do that. Yes, what Spike did was awful. I understand that. It was. But least he KNEW that. Least he was aware that his actions were wrong. And I agree with you that the fact he now has a soul doesn’t change anything. It doesn’t suddenly absolve him of his actions. His actions were his own. He wasn’t forced, he wasn’t compelled. He chose to do that. Just as Willow chose to date-rape Tara. Just as Warren chose to turn Katrina into his sex slave and then bash her head in. Murdering her. Just as Willow chose to murder Warren. I’m not saying you’re wrong for feeling the way you do about Spike. I just wonder why you don’t feel that way about Warren or Willow because they choose to rape/sexually assault the object of their affections and desires too. And they have souls. And they are human. Spike has the excuse of not having a soul. And that’s apparently very relevant for him even though I don’t think it makes a difference.

rattusprat

Domi, good to see you're Not A Cryer status remains firmly intact.

Captain Hammer

I've seen it probably 10 times and it still makes me cry

AlyAdmirer

I've said it since 2003: other than the Spike subplot being there to feed into the next season, to me, "Two to Go"/"Grave" makes for a better *series* finale than the one we'd ultimately get--ironic, given that this was the ONLY time they went into production on a season finale knowing with 100% certainty that they were coming back, as they'd gotten a two season pickup when the show jumped to UPN.

Bud Haven

It was heartwarming to see you cry as hard for the death of Buffy's depression as some of the other deaths we've seen.

Flora Smith

I’ll throw Faith in too - she sexually assaults Xander in Consequences and rapes Riley (and by extension Buffy) in Who Are You but it’s often glossed over by fans (and granted, also by the show itself). Willow also doubles down on her violation of Tara by doing the same spell *again* after Tara has confronted her and made it clear how traumatized she is

😊smylyface😊 (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-06 19:00 How can you say that Spike is irredeemable when you have forgiven Angel after he's done much more horrific things? He murdered Jenny, tortured Giles and tried to kill both willow and Xander. Did you forget that for 100 years before he was cursed with a soul he had raped, tortured and killed entire villages of women and children for fun? The Master even said that he was his greatest achievement, the most evil vampire he ever created. Do you really believe that Angelus would have gone through those deadly trials of his own free will to get his soul back had Willow not been successful with reinstating his curse? He likes being evil. The chip in Spike's head stops him from being able to hurt humans but it doesn't stop him from wanting to do those things. Putting a muzzle on a vicious animal doesn't change its nature. Spike and Buffy have always had a violent relationship. Neither of them have ever respected the other's boundaries. Neither of them listened when the other said "no" to sex in the past so Spike didn't stop until she kicked him across the room. He was disgusted and couldn't continue living with himself when he realized what he'd done and that Buffy now saw him as a monster instead of a man. Remember, Spike never had a relationship as a human or with a human until Buffy so considering he is a soulless vampire it's a miracle he is even capable of feeling guilt. He chose to fight and get his soul back so he would never become a monster and hurt her like that again. Unlike Angel his soul isn't a curse, it's a reward... albeit a painful one.
2023-09-23 03:46

Ron Fehr

Off topic, but if you want to see an even younger Alyson Hannigan, check out the movie My Stepmother is an Alien.

Ron Fehr

It's possible that we were meant to think that Spike went to the demon to have his chip removed, in order that we don't anticipate the actual ending. But when you think about it, humans implanted his chip, therefore only humans should be able to remove it. I don't see how demons could anticipate it, as would be necessary to be able to mystically remove it.

Ron Fehr

I like to think that it's actually Spike's action that you're mad at, and not the person himself. We sometimes make the mistake of hating people instead of the bad things that they do. In that case everyone should hate everyone, because nobody has lived a perfect life. We've all done bad things to some degree. We simply look at some actions as worse than others, and come to the conclusion that certain people are just bad because of the things they've done. It's our choice when we forgive people, and that means, to some point, putting aside the things that offended us in the first place.

Girl4Music

Yep. Faith very much does that too.

Ron Fehr

As bad as some of the other things Buffy's friends have done, I don't see how you can think that Spike is irredeemable? Tara forgave Willow. I hope that in some way, you can forgive Spike.

Girl4Music

It’s not a reward. It’s a curse. Demons don’t grant souls to other demons unless they’re unworthy to be a demon. It’s supposed to be an insult that Spike gets his soul back.

Ron Fehr

Please read my comment on the topic. It's possible that Spike went to get his soul back. We just weren't meant find out until the very end. He just didn't know that it would hurt so much, hence his scream.

Vicky N

I know i am in the minority in the fandom but I really don’t like the dark Willow arc and this finale. I like the idea but not the execution. Alyson is a great actress but she can’t pull up this arch villain persona. Maybe it’s the dialogue, which I find too stereotypical, dripping with clichés. I love the yellow crayon scene, it’s wonderful. But I can’t overlook the plot holes leading to the scene. How did Xander get there? Why did he leave Buffy and Dawn? Wasn’t he supposed to get a rope or something? I don’t like that Buffy, who is our protagonist, doesn’t contribute in any way to the resolution. She is sidestepped, fighting insignificant mud monsters that she could defeat with one hand tied behind her back. And when the fight is over, the monsters disappear, but she has no way of knowing how it happened, for all she know it could be because Willow died. Her sudden relief and newfound will to live is not earned. It’s not explained in any way. Metaphorically it works. Xander, Buffy’s heart, reaches Willlow, her spirit thanks to Giles, her mind. But David does not have the same ability as Joss Whedon to write a compelling script. I won’t comment on Spike and his arc because I feel that I can’t without being spoilery. I will only add to the everyone else who pointed out how absurd it to only be unable to forgive him when others characters that Domi admire and root for have committed despicable act without contrition.

Ron Fehr

I think that when Xander heard Anya's news, he changed his mind. Like he said, if the world was going to end, he'd rather be with Willow. He probably felt that Buffy wold find some way out even if he couldn't help. Who's to say that he would have found any rope anyway.

Ron Fehr

Buffy's reaction at still being alive in the end, and her will to live, may have been sudden as you see it, but I think it was earned over time. Her zest for doing the right thing had returned, whereas earlier she was just fighting because she thought that was expected of her. It was just at that moment that the realization hit.

Lime Pie

Buffy was not in any position to help Willow in 6x21. It's difficult to convince someone to feel when you yourself can't. Buffy's arc in this episode was about her recovery. Buffy was finally able to laugh about every horrible thing that happened to her and her friends this season thanks to Giles. Dawn proved that she can handle herself, relieving the monumental pressure Buffy put on herself this whole season. By the end of the episode, Buffy is able to be happy the world didn't end when Dawn points out that it didn't. Her apology to Dawn comes after Dawn tells her she thought Buffy would want the world to end. What an awful realization it must be that your own sister would think that of you. So, Buffy is able to admit how awful life had been recently, a very important step in recovery. That is why I love this episode and this season.

Vicky N

One other thing Domi said in her review, ascribing to Willow somewhat good deep intents in wanting to end the world suffering by ending the world. To me it was the ultimate selfishly motivated act, she wanted to end it because it was too much for her to endure.

zerofk

I'm glad that Anya was with Giles when he was "dying". They have a very interesting relationship. Like Buffy, I think Anya sees Giles as a father figure - we're ignoring Tabula Rasa here. But Giles doesn't see Anya as a daughter the way he does with Buffy. This creates an interesting dynamic, which I'd love to see more of.

James

Hi Domi, what a wonderful reaction, thank you! I'm so glad you enjoyed this finale. Season 6 is my favourite season of 'Buffy' and this is my favourite episode of 'Buffy'. It is the most emotionally moving for me.

Alex Wright

Contrast to Cordelia's reaction to hearing all of the world's pain: a desire to help.

Rio de Tanana

Sidestepping Buffy. The theme of season 7.

Keenan White

Especially since the Spike that we apparently are going to have moving forward wasn’t actually present in that bathroom.

madfem

that's true... and sad

Girl4Music

Oh I believe that he did fight to get his soul back rather than get the chip removed. I’m just saying the demon sees it as an insult.

Erik Griffiths

Spike hates himself, that's why he endured the trials. To give her what she deserves, a man who would never do what he tried to do.

madfem

stop spoiling Rio de tanana

Tiffany

If you can forgive Angel for things Angelus has done you have to forgive Spike for things he’s done before getting a soul. Plus, Spike sans soul did waaay more good things than Angelus ever did. Yes, Willow is absolutely the big bad of the season.

Janel Davis

"Oh, snap! His soul? You know what, you deserve that Spike..." Me: Wow! That is surprisingly forgiving of Domi. 🤔 "...as long as it makes you feel bad. I still hate you." Me: Aaaand there she is. 😂

Nicamon

"Plus, Spike sans soul did waaay more good things than Angelus ever did." And that's PRECISELY why I hate him as a character and why I CAN'T forgive what he did: because Angelus&Angel are CLEARELY 2 distinct personalities. Souled Spike is EXACTLY like Souless Spike, just a tiny bit more sensitive. I can't judge what he does if I don't know where his monster personality ends and his human personality begins!😵

Nicamon

"humans implanted his chip, therefore only humans should be able to remove it." This is the most NONSENSICLE thing I have ever heared! Magic's whole point is to be able to do what science can't. You can DEFINITELY remove a chip using magic, just like you can remove a bullet!! Which is why I've been saying for DECADES that Spike has become a walking plot hole at one point... because they BENT the plot to the necessity of keeping him in the show!! The moment he realized what the chip was doing he SHOULD have gone to someone MAGICAL to make it literally DISAPPEAR without consequences instead of visiting ONE human doctor and then giving up! He should have left Sunnydale in search of a cure just like Oz did for his licantropy. The only reason he didn't is that the whole point of the chip WAS to keep him near Buffy without having them to fight all the time (which would have been the LOGICAL course of actions for them)!

Nicamon

ANGELUS, not Angel! 2 different personalities which is EXACTLY why I can forgive HIM and not Spike! If you write Souless Spike to be almost IDENTICAL to Souled Spike you can't then expect me to treat them like 2 different people BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT! That's why I hate Spike as a character and I keep calling him a plot hole. I do hate Angelus as well, but he's not inconsistent. Spike is. The fact ITSELF he felt guilty for the attempted rape and he went to take back his soul implies he doesn't need one! He's ALREADY behaving like a standard human being!

Nicamon

I personally dislike whenever people bring out this parallel especially since most people keep saying that they prefer "complex Villains" to "Mary Sues" because they're more reletable. What Willow did was TOTALLY RELETABLE because, as humans, we WISH to have world peace but WE KNOW it's absolutely impossible to achieve! If we felt all the pain in the world at once the only REALISTIC solution would be getting rid of it completely! Unless we had a Jasmine. Except the "Bangel" fandom (meaning the shows, not the ship) usually consider Jasmine as a Villain. She was the only one who could TRULY bring world peace and Paradise on Earth and people treat her like a menace, but at the same time they're on Cordelia's side when SHE wanted to rid the world of pain? Make it make sense!!😵Either you WANT Paradise or not!! Going back to the point... Willow was selfish AND selfless at the same time. She wanted first and foremost to get rid of HER OWN pain but this doesn't mean she wasn't ALSO being trying to help the rest of the world in her own way.