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Buffy 7x02 (Extended) - Beneath You (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-06 18:00:03
Edited:
2024-07-15 22:09:10
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

reaction link: click here.

much like buffy, i think i'm also gonna need a while to process this ep because damn!!

Files

Comments

HuntingSwan

Omg the smash cut from you in black to you in that flesh colored tank top gave me such a heart attack, I thought you were naked for a second LOL

Hosman

Angel should have warned Spike. The actress who plays Nancy (Kaarina Aufranc) looks a lot like Emma Caulfield, just an observation lol.

Maksym Vyshnyak

Even when she realises that Spike, being a soulless demon, went to get his soul back, by his own will, to seek for forgiveness, so he could never do the thing he did, and still can not completely forgive him)) I am sorry, but I just want to quote someone - “What the bleeding hell is wrong with you bloody women? What the hell does it take? Why do you bitches torture me?”

Richard Ashton

Does anyone think that the girls at the start of the first two eps - the ones with knives in their chest - are still alive? Or is it only Domi?

Kazz (Charmed4lifekaren)

Happy Anniversary. 7x02 is one of my favorite episodes because of all the Spike's stuff. I'm excited to see how you react to the other Spike stuff this season, glad you're starting to feel empathy for him. (coming from someone who still can't watch 'that' part of 6x19)

The Chosen One

It's not about forgiving Spike or feeling empathy (for soulless Spike). Spike or Angel with and without a soul are seen as different people all together (in the show). And there's merit in that. The fact that he, as a soulless (evil) demon actively sought out his own soul is pretty crazy. The influence of Buffy/love I supppose. And easily the better Vampire of the two (Spike/Angel), he didn't get a 'silly' curse, he wanted his soul. ;p Also Angel has stupid hair!

Steve Quast

"Angel's lame. His hair stands straight up and he's bloody stupid." And yeah, I agree with everything you said about Spike.

zerofk

I love this intro. The music, the chase, the punk girl, it's great. And it's very reminiscent of the German movie Lola Rennt, which is also great. "You're gonna wake up on fire." Michelle Trachtenberg's delivery in that scene is amazing. She really is terrifying in that moment, because she truly means what she said.

Wisdom of the Sphynx

“Why does a man do what he mustn’t? For her, to be her’s. To be the kind of man who would nev…” 🥺

Hosman

Yeah I was gonna mention Run Lola Run in my comment, but I forgot lol.

Gretam

A victim has no responsibility to forgive her attacker. He feels bad, he tries to make amends, that's cool, he should. She owes him nothing, however extraordinary his redemption is. Just sayin lol

George Baxter

James Marsters monologue at the end of this episode is fantastic. It’s so strange to see this irredeemable, brazen heartless comedic character fall into such a tortured twisted place! In retrospect I wonder what it says about Whedon. He always said Buffy was a show about the demons a woman has to overcome when growing up. Spike is both toxic and relatable, monstrous and human. Joss didn’t like how big the character became. Maybe he was too much like him…

madfem

yeah quoting some of Spike's most incel-y lines is really gonna do the trick i think. men ☕️

Ron Fehr

Happy Anniversary Domi. 😊 I don't know if I started watching you react right from the beginning, but pretty close to it. I have, however, watched all of your Buffy and Angel reactions. It's been a blast.

Ron Fehr

Dawn's your sister? Did the monks alter your memories too?

Dee Aitch

The watch guide doesn't censor any episode titles this season (nor last season). I did a quick scan of Angel Season 5, and none of the episode titles seem spoilery. (S5E09 gives you info on who the focus of the episode is on, but you learn that in the second segment). I'd not worry about reading the episode titles from here on out.

Ron Fehr

The scene between Giles and Willow was actually filmed in the veranda of Anthony Stewart Head's home. And the ones in the season premiere were on his estate as well. It seemed appropriate in a way.

Ron Fehr

On a personal note, and for all the Ronnies in the world, I know that the writers had to give Nancy's ex-boyfriend a name. I just wish (I hope Anya didn't hear that) the writers would have given him a different one.

Raven Dark

The focal story of this episode, and the last one, have always been kind of meh to me. Mostly because the part with the ghosts in the last one loses some impact because the dead people weren't characters we've met or care about, and in this one, I don't like Nancy, though I'm not sure why. Something about her personality rubs me the wrong way. But in both episodes, the scenes with the girls at the starts, everything with Willow and Giles, the scenes with Buffy and Dawn, and everything with Spike in both are great. And the endings of both episodes are fantastic. The ending of this one still gives me chills every time. Your reaction to Spike in this episode is perfect, Domi. it is exactly as it was meant to be. I hate what Spike did in 6x19, and I have issues with its execution, but I accept it, and I can do what the show is asking because it gives us this. I also like that Buffy is still struggling with what he did, and that she doesn't just forgive him because he got his soul for her. Whether Buffy forgives him, or not, I get it, but that ending scene? That is the moment I forgave him, and it's the moment I began to hope that, one day, maybe she could too.

AdventuressJamie

Does a drunk rewatch count if we do it? I have a long commute home after a night out and I chose to watch this during 😬

Dave Ford

"don't sit and look at the rain". She's in England. It's one of our national pastimes.

Ron Fehr

A drunk rewatch? Were you planning on having someone join you? That's what I've seen in the past.

Ron Fehr

If you watch closely, at the precise moment when Ronnie is turned back into human form and Spike stabs him, you'll see a quick shot of Spike putting his hand to his head, in response to the pain.

Ron Fehr

I don't know if you can really call Anya the big bad of the episode, as she was kind of being pressured into it. Halfrek pointed out that Anya's granted wishes weren't like they used to be. And in a way, I think she was kind of overcompensating by making Ronnie into an embellished Sluggoth demon. While it was Halfrek who delivered the message, it was D'Hoffryn and the 'lower beings' who were actually the ones pressuring Anya.

Ron Fehr

The first time I saw her, I was thinking Hillary Swank.

Ron Fehr

In response to one of the replies, the attacker, in seeking some form of repentance, has done all that he or she could do. After that, it's up to the victim to work to recover, deciding whether or not to forgive. If yes, even then it could take a long time.

Hosman

Yeah she looks like her a little too.

Girl4Music

It’s the way what he says can have so many different meanings to it. He really is such a poet and definitely not a bloody awful one.

Girl4Music

Don’t get me wrong. I like the fact that they don’t let us forgive and forget so easily what Spike did by showing that Buffy still doesn’t. But the whole thing about having a soul being the only reason why he can be just doesn’t work for me when they have quite clearly pointed out that the soul is irrelevant when it comes to actions and choices of good/evil. I mean you have soulless characters doing good and you have ensouled characters doing evil - including rape and murder… So it’s just like… you know? They’re not really make a strong case for the soul being the be all end all. So while I like the fact they’re doing this redemption arc with Spike… I just wonder why the hell he even needs a soul if he is capable of choosing to do good without it, if he is capable of love, if he can atone, and especially if he feels guilt and regret enough to actually get a soul. How much does the soul actually play a part in this redemption arc? Because for me it doesn’t seem relevant. And if that’s the case - it’s very good that his attempt rape isn’t just forgiven and forgotten the way it probably would be with Angel since Angelus is an entirely different entity and Angel isn’t responsible for Angelus’ actions. It’s really different with Spike because there is no Spikelus equivalent. Spike IS the demon so his actions and choices are entirely his own. … It’s only now that they’re making that valid for him because he has a soul when he was always capable of ensouled qualities even without - like empathy and altruism and love. So I do like the arc but… I have problems with it at the same time because it just feels overwrought and unnecessary to do this.

Erik Griffiths

Angel was cursed with a soul, Spike fought for it, so he could be the man she deserves, not the monster that would do that.

Gabriela Popescu

Everyone forgave Angel for his heinous crimes and didn’t bat an eye saying they were different people (him with and without his soul). Why is everyone so much harsher on Spike without a soul? If anything he fought so much harder to be a “good man” when he had no soul vs Angel who was sadistic. Angel tried continuously to torment Buffy. Not saying Spikes actions weren’t wrong, but can he not make amends?

Loves Bitca

The juxtaposition of Dawn being giddy for Buffy being at her school while also saying Buffy can't be around her or talk to her friends........ I think this is the exact relationship she wants with Buffy, after last season. Some would say "But this is what you want, why would you complain about it". She wants to be able to complain about Buffy being a helicopter parent, which is part of the joy of having what she wants. She wants it, but you got to be able to pretend you hate it. She wants the normal sister/mother/daughter relationship and part of that normal is complaining.

Maksym Vyshnyak

I Was not talking about Buffy, I was talking about reactor/reactors that could not forgive him.

Connor Blake

The Spike situation is so complicated, because in the context of the metaphor, we're seeing a man who did unforgivable, like truly unimaginable, things try to be better. What are we willing to forgive? BUT in the context of Buffy's fantasy world and the logic its set up, Spike never had a soul while doing awful shit. The Buffyverse has sort of set up this system where not having a soul makes you evil and absolves you of all responsibility of those actions once you have a soul. So, how are we meant to view Spike? I think with he and Angel you have to take some middle ground of "Yes, now they are not the same people they were when they were evil.....but they still did those things, and accountability matters." So when you apply that to Spike, I like to re-examine his "love" for Buffy pre-soul. I do believe he genuinely believed he loved her, but it was a purely selfish love. He loved how she made him feel and loved her like a prized trophy he won. It's not true love, it's one-sided and self-serving. I think after he sexually assaulted her he realized he could never get what he wants or attain her without "being what she deserved" by getting a soul, but I still think at this point it was a self-serving desire to go for the soul. I don't think he ever understood what love was or had Buffy's best intentions at heart until after the soul. And for me, this last scene was pretty goddamn well done. Sarah Michelle Gellar wordlessly conveys all this inner conflict Buffy feels over knowing he has soul now and is thus not the same person who attacked her, but like also, it's still him. That shot of her figuring out what's happening right when Spike mentions Angel is just so fucking top tier acting on her part.

StephanieB

I completely get what you are saying and I felt the same as you for a long, long while. Surely ensouled people are capable of truly despicable things. However Spike didn't just get *a* soul, he got back *his* soul, William's soul. And from what we know of William's soul, it was good, and kind. As another commentor pointed out in Domi's season 6 recap video, I cannot see William doing what Spike did in 6x19. That comment meant a lot to me because up until then, every time I considered 6x19, I saw Spike's actions as very human. Desperate, sad, and angry- but not vengeful or spiteful, as you might imagine a demon to be. He didn't even have his vamp face on, which may or may not have made a difference for me and others watching. But as human as Spike seemed in that bathroom scene, he was not William- or a William/Spike hybrid, which I believe season 7 Spike to be. And as the season progresses, I think as usual James Marsters' acting is top notch because his performance expertly walks that line between the two entities now inhabiting one body. He is not Spike of seasons past and he is not William either, but in fact William informing Spike- it is a subtle character detail but I believe it makes all the difference. And in the end- for me- it is a character I can love again. Though sadly, not quite the same as before. The bathroom scene will always haunt me and anger me but I think ensouling Spike was a necessary component to his redemption journey,

Girl4Music

I think that commentator was me. I replied back by the way. As far as I remember the demon that gave Spike his soul back specifically says “we will return your soul” so in retrospect, the person we should have gotten from the ensouling is William. He should have never remembered who he was as Spike because Spike is the demon and restoring his soul means the demon dies or disappears, and the human consciousness emerges in replacement of it. Spike should be dead or should have disappeared because Spike was the demon possessing William and it has been exorcised from the body. That’s not what happens with him. William informs Spike as you said. But the vice versa is also true. And we get a hybrid of both identities inhabiting one body where ensouled Spike isn’t fully Spike and isn’t fully William either. It’s a new incarnation of the same being that remembers everything. What it proves is that Spike was never a possession. He was a corruption. The soul lore in this show is very confusing because it’s never quite explained properly exactly how it works with vampires vs demons.

StephanieB

I guess because so many of us really loved soulless Spike in a way that - I hazard to guess- no one really loved Angelus. Sure, Angelus is entertaining, but not what one could call likeable. We had 5 years to fall in love with the Spike character, just to have everything blown to bits during a few painful seconds. Yes, there were warning signs but no one really took them seriously until we were given no choice. Give Domi time to process and adjust to this new ensouled Spike.