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Ramble: James Cameron's Spider-man (1993) (Patreon)

Published:
2023-09-05 19:40:04
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

This video is not unlike a spider. I'm sure you know what I mean by that

Files

James Cameron's Spiderman

Comments

Anna

Early, also my family is friends with the owners of Europapark, I’m so gutted I didn’t know you were gonna be there 💔

Brandon White

Wow that Morbius cameo halfway through was wild. Love your impression of him though.

Keith Hasperg

Lately Jenny can’t get a video started without singing some strange sound effects at the beginning, and I absolutely love it

BatteryPoweredBricks

Actually the X Games started in 95, by the year 2000 SpiderMan was a secret character in Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2. Sorry for saying actually 😅

Steven Clark

YES! I've been thinking about joining up at a higher level to suggest this, but I guess somebody beat me to it.

BatteryPoweredBricks

Actually I'm an idiot, I thought the script was from 99 😂

Frankie

I like that James Cameron seems to have missed that Kafka was not writing a puberty metaphor

Betsy

Can confirm, "soc" was not 1980s slang, and "The Outsiders" was the only place I ever heard it used. I also thought it was pronounced "sock" the first time I read that book!

Luis

Yaaay right on my birthday (which was actually Sunday) 😃

Talia M

Wow! Cameron’s treatment is terrible. I was struggling to force myself to write today, and this has genuinely pushed me to do it because the fact that this man thought this wasn’t embarrassingly bad. I love it.

Alex

"Recombinant" is a preexisting biology term that refers to something with genetic material from two different species. Maybe flies were chosen because (fruit) flies are a common "Model organism" for studying genetics. 10 is a hilariously small number for a sample size of fruit flies but they can escape the lab very easily if you're not being careful.

Eric Cheung

Lina: Oh Donny! You couldn't kiss me like that and not mean it just a teensy bit! Don Lockwood: Meet the greatest actor in the world! I'd rather kiss a tarantula. Lina: You don't mean that. Don Lockwood: I don't - - Hey Joe, get me a tarantula.

Sideshow Bob Stepping On Rakes

The "Spider-Man being hunted by police for stopping police brutality" is actually extremely cool and I can't believe it hasn't been done

Jackson K

I've wondered before about screenplays if they're always sort of incongruous if you read them cold. Or maybe this one is just weirdly bad.

Spencer Hastings

This is retroactively making me feel icky about titanic. I don’t know if i like james cameron anymore….

Janelle Rose

With the incel vibes in this script & True Lies coming out in 1994 & im p sure Cameron was mid divorce during this time so maybe the 90s was just Cameron’s misogyny era

Joy

"You are not a hero. You are a spider" is an incredible line

Christine Govas-Robert

I love how you can look at Cameron's work from this era and see exactly how badly his divorce was going.

Bryan Sutton

This video is like a spider because it scampers around and builds a web. It's also like a bird.

Yana

Divorced man is like a whole genre of art

Ian Means

I had entirely forgotten about The Outsiders until you brought it up, what a blast from the past

Luis

Thanks 😊

Ann Parker

Yes to Socs reading as “socks”! I feel like a lot of unrealistic slang words in fiction are only thought out for their meaning, but don’t take into account that slang has to sound snappy/catchy in order to catch on.

Monica McFadden

The "do you trust me?" was so reminiscent of Disney's Aladdin that I had to look up when it aired . . . 1992. Dungeons & Dragons was considered very nerdy and uncool in the 90s and Peter's character in the game could have reflected the person he wanted to be (in either a negative or positive way.) Oh, also, a store employee saw me wearing a shirt that said "nevermore" and he got very excited because he'd seen your Evermore video and thought I'd been there.

Sierra Thomander

So their money scheme is just the 1999 movie Office Space

Ky

Thank you for the birthday video Jenny!! Yay (technically it's tomorrow but I'm counting it)

Ky

Happy bday! I'm also claiming this as a birthday vid even though mine's tomorrow

Luis

Heck yeah!!

Marc M.

You know what hobby Peter should have had to flesh him out a bit? Pogs. Dude should have been all about Pogs, with a massive collection of slammers. He should have had a Pog maker, and his entire personality should have been predicated on finding amazing things to make Pogs out of, including odd materials (ooo maybe rare earth elements...possibly even ALIEN?!). Pogs. ***Edit: So I've been thinking about this way too much since posting the comment. James Cameron, had he included Pogs, could have basically kicked off the Marvel Cinematic Universe in the 90's. Peter wants to make some epic slammers, to win up all the Pogs, so he goes salvaging. What's this? A piece of the aerospace steel from John Jameson's space craft. Wait! That's the craft Venom was on board! Bam. Spider-man get's his black suit/brush with Venom. Next, Peter wants to turn a meteorite in to a slammer. Oh no! That's no meteorite he found! It's an Infinity Stone!! New kid on the block, winning up EVERYBODY'S Pogs! What's his secret?! Oooo, he has some crazy-cool metal slammer. That's not just any metal! It's Vibranium! New kid is from Wakanda! Etc.

Sqand

So JC's pitch for Spider Man was what if Batman was in Superman 3.

Zhed

This movie has like 17 acts. It's wild.

Steven Clark

The article sort of hints at it, but the reason Cameron's Spider-Man project didn't get off the ground is that Carolco went out of business. Technically, Sony could have brought him onboard, but everybody always wants to do their own thing. Also, when Cameron first started working on Spider-Man, he handed in a completely different script (basically just a leftover script from when Cannon Films were trying to make a Spider-Man film, which got cancelled because they also went out of business), and it was even worse than the "scriptment." There are a bunch scripts floating around from the Cannon project, and they're all terrible, but the one Cameron put his name on is the worst professional screenplay I've ever read. It's actually painful to get through.

John Friedrich

That money making scheme preceded Office Space. It was actually a true story. The guy got caught only because he seriously underestimated how quickly all those fractions of pennies would add up, and the internal auditors saw an account rapidly increasing in value.

Sqand

Also, as for early 90's nerdy hobbies, this Peter would have been a huge Image Comics fan

Bag of Tricks

I think the only part of the script/movie I liked was when Peter got hit on the head with a frying pan (it was on screen but Jenny didn't read that paragraph in the video). The scene itself seemed extremely confusing, both in terms of "why did that happen" and "what were they even going for," but people getting hit with frying pans is funny and Peter deserved it.

Aimee W

my spiderman nerd hobby I would give him is making/painting model cars he wishes he could take girls on dates with

Clouds in the Sky

OK, as the one who suggested the topic, so I'd like to explain how I found this. So first of all, I'm also not a comic book reader, I came across this script around like a decade ago when The Amazing Spiderman 2 was coming out and there was like a clickbait article saying: "Did you know that there was already this version of Electro as a millionaire that James Cameron wrote?" or something like that. The article said Leonardo Dicapprio was supposed to play this Spiderman? Anyway, out of curiosity I googled the "script" and read it. I haven't read it since ,but the bridge scene burned into my teenage brain and also Spiderman dropping the f bomb at the villain like he was some kind of a mobster- these were the reasons why I labeled this project as bizarre. Basically the main jist of the Spider-Incel arc is what I remembered, like I forgot everything else about this- even Electro's stupid monolog. Watching the Trigger Warning video actually reminded me of James Cameron's incel Spider-Man because of the protagonist and how he was framed in that book as a hero lol. ,Also, isn't that obvious? In this version, Peter's hobby would not be trains- it'd be ROLLERCOASTER TRAINS. And he'll develop hatred for people who don't like or are sensitive to extreme adrenaline attractions and go to other theme park attractions instead, because they're just not an alpha apex predator like Spiderman.

Sqand

There could be an ironic scene where after he trashes Flash's Porsche, he trashes his own previously treasured model of the same car.

Aimee W

I’d now like to think spiderman 3 spiderman is raimi making fun of james cameron’s spiderman

Ted Koutz

So aside from pogs, which were briefly popular enough for somebody to open a doomed pogs store at my local outlet mall, I think that comic books were one of the biggest early 90's collectible crazes. This is when there was mainstream attention to insanely valuable old comics and comics companies played into this by releasing "collectible" comics that were supposed to be valuable someday and now absolutely aren't because they printed millions of copies. It would be kinda cool from a meta angle if there was a 90's Spider-Man where he's real into comics and even cooler if he's into like Archie Comics or Scrooge McDuck

AJ Johnston

2/5 stars for this treatment. Not nearly enough spider facts.

Ted Koutz

My outlet mall had a dedicated Pogs store and it was a biiiig retail space. I hope the owner recovered financially or is an eccentric millionaire where opening a store that's only open for six months wouldn't even matter

R.E. Beaulieu

I would be down with theme park Jenny in every video tbh. Evermore and the theme park prequels are some of my favorite videos!

Margo

I do like the idea of the mutated fly as opposed to the mutated spider because fly mutations are like, all of fly research, but it shouldn't be passed on to the spider that ate it (although tbf it also shouldn't be passed on through a spider bite if it was a mutated spider). I used to work on a floor with fly labs and I can confirm that they get out constantly so that part is at least believable!

Natalie Arnold

One fun fact about Peter's initial idea to monetize the power set - "spider men" (also called human flies, daredevils, etc) were a big trend starting around whenever the first skyscrapers were built. In like the 1920s guys really did go around climbing buildings for either ad sponsorships or for tips, busker style. Not a reference anyone in 1993 would be super likely to get but still a real thing.

Bag of Tricks

Sounds like a sequel video to vote for in around a year's time (for some breathing room).

Bag of Tricks

Weirdly enough, this script and Trigger Warning share a plot moment where the "hero" intervenes to prevent intimate partner violence, and then the abused woman physically attacks him for doing so. But in this one she does it by hitting him with a frying pan, so it has that going for it.

Steven Clark

Honestly, I wouldn't wish that script on anybody. It would be a funny video, but at what cost?

Aramis Calcutt

Superman III plot point! Richard Pryor was skimming fractions of pennies from electronic transactions!

Aramis Calcutt

This is before my time too but I recall a Monkees song that mentioned a bunch of old 1960s dances including the wah-watutsi. Apparently there are a couple of moves in it with jerky arm motions. Some kids re-created it in 2014 - https://youtu.be/kpa_mXFQY-o?si=vm47FJg_38G03WYo

Aramis Calcutt

Early 90s collection craze? Beanie Babies? Cabbage Patch Kids? Foil/hologram baseball cards?

Luis

We will never get tired of hearing about theme parks from Jenny! Her slipping in that World's Fair trivia during the ramble was gold! So I watched this with my own personal Spidey sitting on my shoulder and he didn't like it either but was wondering if Spider-Man kept his mask on during the sex scene 👀

Fifi

The spider behavior trivia rapid fire monologues were so bizarre I was newly shocked every time it happened 💀

Sqand

It was also the villains' scheme in 1995's Hackers. You could write a movie today about 13 villains all having the same idea and stealing each others' fractions of cents.

Matthew S. Dentice

Sam Raimi's Spider-Man was much more of a core part of my childhood than I usually like to admit. It was entirely responsible for launching an obsession with the character that lasted into my teens. Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin remains my favorite movie villain of all time. Kafka's Metamorphosis, huh? I would have figured the primary literary inspiration came from second-rate Victorian novels, given that half the screenplay is written in the language of one. (Not the character dialogue, though. Even they had better dialogue than this.) I'm jealous of Jenny. None on my "collages" ever gave me the opportunity to share the wealth of information about octopuses I've accumulated over the years. It would have been nice to have the outlet; my friends and family don't seem to enjoy hearing about them in random conversations, for some reason.

Matthew S. Dentice

I'm no expert and I'm sure it differs from screenplay to screenplay, but when I took a screenwriting course in undergrad, the examples of actual screenplays they showed us all held together much better than this does.

Malini Correa

wait so...peter had sex w MJ IN THE COSTUME??? ...

Bailey Price

Hilarious that the villain of a spider-man movie has the exact same “evil plan” as the guys from office space lol

Nyx

I'm not even that attached to Sam Raimi's Spider-Man and I'm very grateful we got that instead of this version. Imagine if so many people's introduction to Spider-Man was through incel Peter

LS

This takes a Hollow Man-esque twist that I do not like.

Wes

was it the cracked article

Wes

I think Jim changed it to “Uncle Benjamin” bc he didn’t want to get sued by rice

B Hair

Happy Birthday!!! 🎉🎉🎂🎂

Gleeman and Artist

I love the fact Strand was skimming cents from electronic transactions. It sounds like something Dr Drakken from Kim Possible would do lol

Wes

ooooh next do the script where Arnold Schwarzenegger is Doc Ock and keeps calling himself “Spider-Man” and says “okey dokey” 15 times

a.s.

THE OUTSIDERS REFERENCE TOOK ME OUT

Wes

Important correction: Spider-Man didn’t call Strand a spider on the show. The script doesn’t show what Spider-Man said ON THE SHOW— it shows what Spider-Man said BETWEEN THE TOWERS in the future framing device.

Matthew S. Dentice

Oh, good. That's what I thought was happening. I was a bit confused when Jenny began talking about how he said it on the show itself and thought maybe I had misread it.

Dan Black

I read the three (and then a fourth) Spider-Man Marvel comics around that time -- from 1987 (apparently) until around '93 or '94. I remember reading -- maybe at the ends of some of the issues? -- updates about them trying to get a Spider-Man movie going. It was a roller coaster -- they kept getting into talks with people/studios/whoever and kept thinking it was going somewhere, and they kept getting their hopes dashed as things fell through time after time. It got to the point where I just stopped getting my hopes up, wasn't surprised when it fell through again, and figured it would never happen. When Sam Raimi's Spider-Man films came out, I wasn't collecting the comics anymore, but I was pleasantly surprised it finally happened, and of course I saw them in the theater and bought them on home video and everything. I was also already a moderate Sam Raimi fan -- surprisingly, starting with "Indian Summer", that he just acted in as a side character. But then I saw an interview where he talked about Army of Darkness, which I hadn't seen, but I knew my brother liked it. So I watched that and, even though horror movies usually bore me, Army of Darkness was hilarious, and I liked it. So Spider-Man was certainly a style switch, but I was hopeful, and my hopes were fulfilled; I like his Spider-Man trilogy a lot. Even the third one. But anyway, the path to getting Spider-Man movies made was a long one -- over a decade of trying and trying before they actually started one that got made. And then it ended up being a series of blockbusters, really single-handedly jump-starting the entire comic book movie craze, which had really been languishing since the '90s Batman movie series went downhill. And that kind of movie success had never happened for Marvel. And look where it's taken us since then -- X-Men to the entire Avengers-and-friends movie saga and TV series that are still going today, plus two Spider-Man movie reboots (and the Spider-Verse)… even if some of us think most of the MCU jumped the shark awhile back. BTW, the World Trade Center came up in the James Cameron one in Jenny's video… Some trivia about that, which I remembered but not in detail, so I looked it up, and here's the quote from IMDB: [In the wake of the terror attacks on 11 September 2001, Sony recalled teaser posters which showed a close-up of Spider-Man's face with the New York skyline (including, prominently, the World Trade Center towers) reflected in his eyes. Not all the posters were recovered, however, and the ones still at large are now highly prized collector's items.]

Frankie

Honestly this video is iconic. Could be main channel content. Peter waving his arms and doing a jumping spider mating dance, "about the size of 2 refrigerators", the stupid talk show part

Dan Black

It's called "salami slicing", and it was a hacking scheme from early in the computer banking days that was used in many movies -- like Office Space, which was, frankly, too late and shouldn't have used it, because… Banks put a stop to it when it attracted enough attention that they made things a lot more secure -- and now the banks simply take all the fractions of cents and keep them themselves. Office Space was late enough that the banks in real life already had it "solved", and they should've known better than to re-use such a tired, out-of-date hacking scheme.

Cristina Anderson

in the Raimi movie, he was endearing because of his photography hobby and that should have been the same thing in this, he should have been really into photography!

Dan Gibbins

I think the number one thing that kept this movie being was legal/rights issues (sadly not common sense), but it could not have helped that in the 90s, studios looked at the success of Batman and thought "Who's next? Why, the biggest heroes of MY childhood! Dick Tracy and the Phantom and the Shadow!" X-Men was becoming the top-selling comic ever and they're cranking out movies on newspaper comic and radio serial characters. And I guess if you're going to just make up a nemesis, making him Electro makes sense, whose favourite Spider-Man villain is Electro. Also I get the urge to break it up but I very much want to see all the theme park content.

Dan Gibbins

Oh this version of Spider-Man would 100% be a coaster bro.

Dan Black

If I ever made a big-studio movie, just for Jenny, I would end it with a dark, very subtle shot of a cute little spider wandering off, away from the audience… A tiny spider going home.

Dan Gibbins

Oh man I forgot all about Framed.

J B

It's Pogs jenny, Pogs.

J B

There is a video about old English automata, and I just want jenny to...just watch that video and comment on it. It culminates with a self contained boy who writes in cursive, it's really amazing. Somebody make that votes,

J B

Automata: The Extraordinary "Robots" Designed Hundreds Of Years Ago it's that, I was watching it thinking "I wish this was a J video" asking for her to do the subject matter seems inconvenient, idk Even if you disregard this, you should look at that writing boy, its crazy and really speaks to the collective love here of art and movement that is the classical music to today's pop infused amusement park animatronics.

Jaz Mei Luo

Yeesh this scriptment gave me such a bad taste in my mouth I feel the need to watch Raimi's Spiderman again as a palate cleanser

Wes

There ARE vegetarian spiders. Bagheera kiplingi!

Maerose Pepe

What lip product are you wearing? I really like it

Wes

When James Cameron said his brain had been “poisoned by testosterone,” he was thinking of the time he wrote Electro kissing MJ to death while Spider-Man yells “I’ll kill you, motherfucker”

Jaz Mei Luo

OK I'm doing it! It's just on Netflix! I haven't watched this film in years, but it was my childhood!

Matthew S. Dentice

That 90s trend of would-be blockbusters featuring 30s pulp/comic strip heroes was certainly odd. The Shadow at least was one of the major inspirations for Batman, so I guess they thought he would strike a chord with people who liked Batman. Never mind that Batman had almost completely eclipsed the Shadow in cultural relevance in the intervening six decades. I actually like the Shadow (the original pulps and radio series, not the 1994 film), but I'm not under any illusions that it still has any sort of real hold on the public imagination.

Coral Peterson

I would love another theme park video!

Jenny Nicholson

Against all odds I actually think the weirder part is that he expected her to keep her eyes closed the whole time. But possibly that enabled him to be fully nude on the bridge

Hayley Mills

I respect that you don't like No Way Home, but this script made me appreciate every Spider-Man movie that's actually been made. (Except Amazing Spider-Man 2. Let's not go that far.)

Steve Ray

90's hobby - Magic: The Gathering, with Peter building alpha decks loaded with four Giant Spiders that can block Flying creatures.

Steve Ray

And the fractional scheme later became totally legal by switching it to high-speed stock transactions, where the broker would wait for the share price to rise or fall a little from the customer's order and then keep the difference.

Trystan

The way she says 'buzzy' at 13:03 makes me think there's some repressed rage about a certain animatronic under the surface.

Gary

As soon as she mentioned her one giant eye it was all I could see.

Mariel

Florida we had to read The Outsiders in ninth grade.

MeYouIt

love how there's always a "YOU AND ME CAN RULE THIS CITY SPIDER-MAN!"

Azrael Macool

That whole part of the video, I was shouting “Pogs! He would collect pogs!” Hoping Jenny could somehow hear me

Azrael Macool

Okay, so there’s 2 Spider-man scripts associated with Cameron? Because I read one once and thought that’s what Jenny would read, Doc Ock was the villain and he had a minion named Weiner. I was super thrown off by… this

James Cézanne-Taipale

I have never wanted a piece of garbage as much as I’ve wanted this one.

Steven Clark

Yeah, Azrael, there's the scriptment that Cameron actually wrote, and there's the Contractual Obligation Script. Carolco agreed to pay Cameron something like $6 million for a screenplay, but they knew he always took forever to write anything and that he always went overbudget, so they put in a condition where he would only get the money once he'd turned in a completed script that could be filmed for less than $60 million. So, he found an old script from the Cannon Spider-Man project and made "revisions" that I think just amounted to adding his name to the title page and spelling two of the other writers' names wrong. So, Cameron got his money, and Carolco went bankrupt without ever getting a real Spider-Man script out of him.

Birthe_bird

More theme park stuff! More theme park stuff!

Stephen

Frantically checking my unfinished novel to make sure I didn’t introduce any of the main characters with them getting ready in the morning

Samantha Ansley

Just started and wondered: is James Cameron just Michael Bay but wearing glasses?

David

I would be super stoked for a Europa Park video, the little tidbits you've shared are so whimsical!!! Also I feel like the vibe of "Here is a real park in Germany that's very strange and cute" is different enough from the "Hubris of Man/Mouse" themepark vids it would be following!

polywogy

This scriptment makes slightly more sense if it was consciously using Spider-Man as a way to talk about adolescent boys. Around puberty, stereotypes of boys are annoying, pretend they don’t care what other people think, treat girls like aliens, are mini-incels, think getting famous on talk shows would be cool, and think they are terminally unique and any adult who tries to give them advice doesn’t really know what it’s like for them. They can also be full of confused anger, and going through a transition from powerlessness to being physically powerful. Then there’s looking around to find adult male role models, wanting to identify with rich handsome men who treat women like shit, and a kind of disillusionment when you realize that adults aren’t necessarily heroes or villains, they have just accepted banal forms of evil because it makes their lives easier. Anyway, I think this script doesn’t make a lot of sense as a Spider-Man story, but it could make slightly more sense as an attempt to use SM to make a story about young men. I’d say the ending also supports this idea — specifically mentioning that MJ gets better grades than him but that’s okay seems like it’s hammering home his growth in terms of seeing her as a real person and giving up the idea he started with — that nobody liked him because he was just too smart.

polywogy

Sorry for the wall of text. I’m not so great at being concise.

Dash

Jenny: “So I hated it. Did you hate it too, Spidey?” Spidey does a seductive dance in an attempt to entice Jenny. Jenny: “Spidey says yes.”

Dash

Jenny: “You can’t switch spider with bird!” Also Jenny: switches Aragog with Giant Porg

Matt Reynolds

This was actually interesting. I don't believe this would have been the final script, it sounds like a first draft, just getting ideas on the page before it's been edited and worked into a shooting script. Cameron's Peter feels much closer to the original Ditko Peter though who was basically on the road to being a super villain before his uncle Ben died and was still a bit of a jerk for a while after like when he tried to join the fantastic four. I can't help but wonder if the lack of the goblin was because Norman and Harry were both dead by then but this take on electro feels more osborn than electro

S G Matthews

Happy Birthday, Jenny!!! Possibly Early or Belated, but you said this was the month, so… sending the wishes now 🎉🎉🎉

Austin F

even though this script was mostly really stupid, i would've paid SO much to see a serious james cameron movie involve peter parker dancing around like a spider doing a courtship dance

Cate C

I would be so down for a Spiderman movie where he teams up with the villains to make superhero-Leverage. (Or would that just be normal Leverage?)

Rebekah Wilson

Does anyone know if Jenny is still planning on doing a ranking of all the barbie movies? I can't remember the schedule

Dan Gibbins

Trying to make the superhero trend all about 30s pulp heroes is both very strange and very predictable for 60 year old studio heads.

Will Morgan

She mentions in the very end of this video she's temporarily putting off because they keep realeasing new movies and it's become a slog. :'(

Richard Lyth

I was just thinking "That's the 90s for you, you wouldn't have a superhero movie nowadays where the hero just spies on a woman stripping down to her underwear" when I remembered the exact same thing happened in the last Batman movie, and he wasn't even a teenager, so...yeah.

Dylan

I like the script being on screen, but as far as clarity for who is talking the best way to do that is to give every character a funny hat to put on wear. Not that I am severely disappointed in that or was looking forward to what hat would be given to each character or anything.

CosmicTransmtation

Pretty sure that wasn't done for sexual gratification.

zanna

yeah i felt the same way about no way home...i put off watching it for so long because i didn't want to see characters i loved potentially get butchered but i eventually gave in because i loved doc ock and tobey's spider-man as a kid and i came out of the movie going wow, they were the only redeeming part of that movie for me and they weren't even well done! should've just rewatched spider-man 2. raimi's movies are very campy and hammy and comic book-y but in i think a good way and a very earnest way that really captures the spirit of a lot of the source material for many superheroes out there, tbh. it's feel-good stuff. wish fulfillment. you want to read about someone finding the goodness and power within to beat the bad guys a lot of the time and there's a lot uh...less. of that. in superhero media these days.

O Bow

by watching a woman alone in a room, we are all spiders in a way... very immersive, jenny!

Dylan

If i could recommend a TV show, then spectacular spiderman that sort of mirrors a few of the scenes in this but done right.

TalysAlankil

absolutely same about no way home. also, this script, hoo boy, 1993 james cameron are you perhaps projecting some opinions there

Dylan

The spider suit not only protects his face but it also protects from........

Dylan

im so sorry

SoSo_Tsundere

Too much theme park content in a row? No such thing!

Towers of Hanoi

I had no idea The Outsiders was written by a 14 year old, even though it was required reading. I always just assumed it was a classic?

Talia M

You mean the plot necessitated showing a woman stripping down?

Devin M

The lights lining up was literally the first thing I noticed.

KarmaismySnake

James Cameron thinks he's Peter Parker when he's really Lex Luthor.

KarmaismySnake

Also thanks for adding the script. The aspect ratio has been off on my TV for at least 3 months. Had to read this madness.

Ishaan Sahai

We read (and watched) The Outsiders in Grade 8 in Calgary! Was never quite sure of how well-known it was. My first Coppola movie and probably a lot of kids' lol

Julian Wren

I like the way the video ended up with a get rich scheme anyway.

Ishaan Sahai

The optimism of the past tense in "you think Trump was big"

Stranger Kate

Just staggering that James could put this whole theme in about Peter's fear of becoming a "spider", yet never have any reflection on this aspect of Peter's personality where he spies on people and is especially creepy and resentful towards women. Like why was the revelation of Peter's natural webs supposedly scarier to MJ than something like "This guy was following you around watching you without your knowing, like a real spider." I mean I get that if you have the weird bridge sex scene already, I guess she might not be that creeped out by this news, but I think we can all agree that bridge scene was misguided and MJ kind of deserved to be creeped out by all of it. It's growing increasingly strange to me to see properties dismiss teenage boys' voyeuristic tendencies as harmless, like "Oh well, he's just a young man infatuated, what can you do?" But it's like, young men infatuated enough to justify this kind of questionable behavior are honestly some of the scariest people I can think of. Also, MJ's turn around to liking Peter at the end felt very "Bimbo Picks Up A Book" somehow. Like in Raimi's Spiderman, MJ is just a nice girl who happens to be popular, she doesn't have to become "not like other girls" in order to gain interest in Peter.

O

The way I burst out laughing when she said "he has a moped!? He's living like a king!"

Alex Andra

I liked the Raimi films a lot as a kid, and now in retrospect after this experience, even having like them a lot, I feel like I underappreciated how good they were. Now that I know how bad it could have been…

Alex Andra

Like Raimi male gazed MJ a lot, but this amount of lampshading in one movie would have set back feminism 15 years

Alex Andra

What if instead of committing to watching every Barbie movie, you just pick one that we watch together in a ramble? I can’t remember if you talked about swan lake or nutcracker in the preview, but those would be good candidates imo. I’m not at voting tier but if somebody wants to add that as a Barbie compromise…I’d rather have some Barbie content than none at all.

Vergil Angelo

Alternate universe where this movie came out and set Superhero movies back a decade, this is such a strange script that feels like a more verbose and less intelligent version of Raimi. It’s like they completely forgot the great power and responsibility part, the core of his entire struggle, then came back to it at the very end.

James Morrone

A comic side story you might like is Savage Spiderman, where he actually grows a bunch of arms and becomes like a spider. It's from last year and is only six issues

Ishaan Sahai

Probably one of the most enjoyable ramble videos!

Brian Cox

i don’t think she’s totally abandoned the barbie video like this lol maybe if she stops working on it full stop she’d accept this as a ramble topic

Brian Cox

she said exactly what needed to be said about no way home .. it just “doesn’t ring true.” i still enjoyed the film but she summarized everything that felt off about it to me

Shaun Cheah

See also: Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (Apparently Spielberg and Lucas were both going through divorces at the time and it seems they took all of that out on the character of Willie Scott).

Shaun Cheah

I remember reading about an early automata bird whose whole gimmick was that it ate food and turned it into poop and the Victorians were FASCINATED by it. Turns out there was just a food compartment and a poop compartment and the owners would just periodically empty one out and refill the other as necessary.

Kyle Williams

Sosh was not 80s slang. I was a kid then and never heard it. Even though the Outsiders movie came out in 1983 (which I never saw), the book was apparently published in 1967. So Sosh was probably 60s slang. Also, James Cameron was born in 1954, so if it was 60s slang it would make sense it was in his vocabulary since he would have been around the same age as the woman who wrote The Outsiders.

Dylan

I got to shout out Spectacular Spiderman, for not only being a great show. But also giving the crime boss a much better pitch to hire spiderman and giving a peter a decent reason to actually take his offer. Highly recommend to anyone who has not seen it.

Tardsmat

I feel like you'd be fine with making a bunch of theme park stuff in a row. I think part of the appeal of the channel is that you're talking about stuff that interests you, even when most viewers will not have heard of it. So I don't think people have a lot of expectations regarding the subject matter of videos

Lenore

Would genuinely love Peter’s hobby to be model trains, and to have this expand as he gets his spider powers to include models of building from around NY that’s he’s been able to visit and climb as Spider Man. Would be a fun visual in the early days of him testing his powers to see him adding new buildings to his little model town as he swings around and tests the limits of where he can go/what he can do. Like miles tagging the tops of buildings with his art in Into the Spiderverse.

Gary Singh

That was great analysis no need to apologize. My biggest issue with Spider-Man in media is that the character seems to never grow beyond high school and a some college but if the story can be updated to address how address masculinity for teenage boys throughout the years that would be a fresher take on things.

Ella Wharton

So I was super confused watching this because years ago I watched a cracked video about a James Cameron Spider-Man script and in the video they said that the finale took place in space, and I just looked it up, and there is another version!! In the other one, doctor octopus has an assistant called Weiner, wants to destroy the universe and the finale takes place in SPACCCEE!

rachel walsh

So funny bc skimming money that way is also in Superman 3- And office space lol

Babbity.Kate

I am STUNNED that the comments are discussing anything other than the fact that Jenny has never seen E.T.??????????

Kimberly

The villain's diabolical plan is...high-frequency trading. Duh duh DUHHHHH!

Tim Goodman

It's been done a few times in the comics, starting with the "Six Arms Saga" (so, 8 limbs total) by Stan Lee and Gil Kane back in 1971. (Amazing Spider-man #100-102). This led to a "What If...?" story in 1992, "What If Spider-man Kept His Six Arms?" In that book he uses his extra arms to defeat villains including Dr. Octopus, Mephisto, and Thanos, he saves Gwen Stacy from the Green Goblin, and he becomes a spokesman for the "physically challenged".

Sqand

There's a lot of potential for fun edits there that cut between Peter looking down at his model city and him swinging around, and it would help reinforce the perspective theme the framing narrative and Electro wanted to create.

Ishaan Sahai

Her Twitter profile pic made me assume she was a superfan lol

Quinn

I think she would love E.T..... I'm also shocked

Jen B

I love all of your theme park content

Sarahodo

I am always on board for more theme park content from you. Bring it on! 😃

Natalie Arnold

I swear there was a baby doll toy like this at some point. Both food and poop were plastic but at some point in the 90s Gimmick Doll era I think?

Starlit Rain

Me too!! Its my favorite although I love watching Jenny talk about anything

Mr. Creosote

An interesting Peter hobby would be if he trained some flies to be circus performers. Which would lend his character an anti-predation aspect. Strand could be a wealthy tycoon who made his fortune running an international flea circus empire. Strand would want to eliminate Peter to get rid of the competition. Thus the theme would be established as predator versus anti-predator.

Shred Cadmium

As one might expect, Jenny still knows more about E.T. than most of the people who <i>*have*</i> seen it...

Praveen Nair

Jenny I hate to break it to you but we definitely were not fine in the World Trade Center in 1993

Dan Black

Oh, wow, I hadn't seen that before. That's certainly interesting! Seems perfectly innocent for a movie trailer… until 9/11. I wonder when that actually came out -- how close the timing was. It couldn't have been _too_ long before September. Thanks for sharing!

boobookeys

Him seducing her with spider facts is so foul 😭😭😭😭😭😭 is it just me but wouldn't it be WORSE to find out that the symbolic bondage spider facts guy wasn't a superhero? Cuz if he's a superhero that makes sense as his "thing". But if he's not he's just some guy with an odd obsession 😭

napastak

my name is napastak and i enjoy this video

Chad

Interestingly, Spider-Man: The Animated Series was created as a tie-in to this movie even though this movie never got made, which is why Electro and Sandman don’t appear until late into the show’s run (they were replaced by Shocker and Hydro Man) and why it doesn’t start with Spider-Man’s origin. Even stranger is that it would happen again: Blade appeared in the show which was supposed to tie in to a Blade movie, but that movie got delayed until it became the Wesley Snipes version.

Natalie

MJ kisses Peter at the end because them working on that science project together was good for her and they got a good grade

Jenny Nicholson

She kisses him and then looks him in the eye and coldly says "thank you"

Jaz Mei Luo

Lol I wasn't shocked because I remember her mentioning it in one of her other patreon videos talking about theme park rides

Jaz Mei Luo

I dipped my toe into that show when I was a kid! Will definitely have to revisit :)

Jane Mahoney

"a tiny spider going home" makes me picture a spider with, like, a little hobo bindle slung over one of its shoulders walking into the sunset

Chelsea Clark

This may be my new favorite ramble. I was cackling at some of the commentary 😂

Gnome Choomsky

Have you read any of Cameron's other scripts? They're pretty detailed lol

Gnome Choomsky

What did you think of Sam Raimi's Spiderman 2? I thought it was even better than the first one (though I also thought some things about it were kinda weird lol)

Heather

The same kind of thing pops up in The Abyss.

Ky

Soc as in socialite

Kyle Williams

Check the script at 11:18. The word is "sosh" not "soc".

Emily Boyd

The way I literally choked on my tea at "He's had a moped this whole time? He's living like a king!"

Pterranodon

Peter can also be into gymnastics, like Flash. So we can have the classic "nerd shows up jock bully" moment, but with choreography set 80's hype music

Chloe

watching this on 9/11 was WILD

Joel Eblin

Peter would be a POG collector!

Markus D

There are two things I remember about that series: 1. The theme song. 2. "SHOOOOOOCKER! YOU CAN'T ESCAPE MEEE! I'LL CHASE YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EEEEEEAAAARTH!"

Will0798

Yeah that's fair enough, I'll agree that the humor did lean a little too heavy into the overplayed MCU type a bit too often, but I still really liked the movie

AnKo .

As someone who has worked in a Drosophila research lab before, I can tell you that flies get out all. the. time.

Hedrigal

The lizard is created when the garter snake that escaped from the tuperware container I was transporting him in bites him.

Kim

I'm with you, Jenny, about your disappointment with No Way Home. I'm angry at myself for falling into the nostalgia bait, and it wasn't even good!

Kevin

With the way Peter was portrayed, I think it would have been hilarious if right after he and Mary Jane had sex on the bridge we just went straight to the end credits

Talia M

men will write Spiderman screenplays instead of going to therapy

caw

another jenny nicholson classic campy

AJ Snyder

I think it's better than 1 just because I think Alfred Molina is hot

LL

Reading Peter from the 60's to 00's people joke about Peter's temper and social skills compared to adaptations, especially Ditko's teen Peter...but I guess he could be worse.

Lilly_

incel spider-man: neither the hero we need nor the hero we deserve.

Simon Rodriguez

It truly disturbs me how prevalent these themes are in media of “good” men stalking women, and sometimes even being rewarded by the narrative for it (i.e. being there to protect them). Him having super powers and wearing a costume doesn’t change the fact that he’s camped outside a girl’s home and watching her through her window. This isn’t a normal behavior, even for a teenager. Only someone with serious mental health problems feels compelled to repeatedly monitor, follow, and invade the privacy of someone like this. I’m glad this movie wasn’t made and there’s one less example of this type of behavior being depicted as anything other than disgusting and universally unacceptable.

Markus D

Yes! I remembered her talking about it before. I feel like maybe she should never watch it, because she'll probably be disappointed. I think that more people are on this wavelength now, but I know that while it was really popular, I've always thought it was very boring and kind of creepy.

Derick Gadd

Ok I just finished and it is an utterly deranged script, wow. 1) Who is it for? Batman Returns was hugely controversial in 1992 for violence and Catwoman being sexual, but there wasn't even a sex scene IIRC. It led to a kiddification of the series as seen in Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. A Spider-Man movie with a sex scene in 1993 would have been nuts. 2) Peter being a creepy incel.. Jenny covered this well. It feels like the target audience were angry nerds. I guess when I think back to this era, it was peak "angry nerds are a large enough audience to pander to, but we haven't seen how dark this can get" era. Because he comes off way worse than in the comics or old TV show here, so there seems to be a deliberate edginess added. 3) The point of spider-man is not spiders! Sorry Jenny know you love them ;) But seriously, so much of this script is like, poetic musing about the nature of spiders, and a huge part of the central conflict (aside from the part that is the scam from Office Space??) is like, about the fundamental nature of spiders, and what that means for Peter. As I said in the comment I accidentally deleted, it leaps off the page that JC is deeply divorced at the time he wrote this.

Derick Gadd

PS: Jenny's passive-aggressive pronounciation of "collage" 😂

Kelly Evans

No it was written by a teen girl. However, it was not set in the inner city and I don't think Italians have anything to do w it lol. One kid is Mexican i think; Johnny. It's just poor v rich kids in the 50s and was actually set in Oklahoma, my home. In a rural town, Tulsa at the time I believe. The reason it was unique was that it wasn't the inner cities, and most rural stories really romanticized living in the country and small towns at that time. She witnessed all of this growing up in OK.

Who Are These People

1:08:55 Spiderman atop the World Trade Center Jen: "No Peter! Oh wait it's 1993 we're fine." In 1993 the World Trade Centers were bombed. Six killed and a thousand injured. Never forget.

Jenny G.

The first time I went to NYC was in April of 1993. We decided to go in January. The bombing was in February. So many of my friends thought I was absolutely crazy to still be going. I remember telling one of them, exasperated, "It's not like they're going to do it AGAIN." Heeeehhhhhh....heh...er...well. Technically true? Technically true.

Jazz Me to the Moon

9:30 "I'll figure out that Peter Parker is smart when he shows up for school and he doesn't have any friends" ahh if only the real world was like that I would have some braincells to keep me company

Richard R.

I'll never understand the 90s and their obsession with virgins.

Eric Houge

Now I want a Jenny Nicholson retrospective of the Sam Raimi Spider-Man trilogy. As a fellow MCU skeptic, one of the things I hate about their films is that they claim to venerate Stan Lee (or at least his era of Marvel comics--leaving aside any debate about the dubiousness of his claims of authorship) but are too cowardly to commit to camp or cheese because in order to consistently make a billion dollars worldwide, they need to cultivate an audience that's too "cool" to read comic books. Raimi's films embraced EVERY aspect of the old Spider-Man comics, even at the risk of being laughed at. (I wanted to throw my remote at the TV when they took a cheap swipe at Emo Peter Parker in No Way Home. That's the MCU in a nutshell--constantly apologizing for their source material.)

Naomi Cooper

There are vegetarian spiders.....

Damion Damaske

"No Peter, the World Trade Center!...Oh, wait, it's 1993, he's fine." I mean...tbf, terrorists bombed the WTC literally that year, lol.

Hannah Vaughn

The answer to what Peter should have been collecting in 1993 is beanie babies. XD But I cannot decide if that would have made him nerdy or trendy. Might have been more trendy! But I was a nerd and I have 300 under my bed …so….

JG

That “sosh”/“soc” thing was funny to me because at the college I went to everyone has to take a “social science core” which we abbreviate to “sosc” (pronounced “sosh”). I never thought I’d hear that word in any other context

Dory Peacock

I can't believe the villains just did the scheme from Office Space.

Jenna Stoddard

So at the end they were graduating the NEXT WEEK but they hadn't even made college plans yet? Come on James

Jenna Stoddard

I keep coming back to thinking about them having sex on the bridge and how Peter would have only lasted like, 30 seconds max. And imagining him tearfully making up a spider metaphor to justify it

nina ♡

I know it’s not like a totally unique experience by ANY stretch but I feel so validated by all the love for Raimi spidermans. I watched that dvd practically on repeat as a kid and I honestly still just think it’s high art.

Ethan S

Love but WHERE IS ARAGOG!!?? i miss him :'(

Taquinqua

Strange that the villain is the guys from office space

Sophie

I think Peter's spider obsession could have worked if it predated him being spiderman. He could have been a weird nerd who loved and kept spiders and knew a ton of spider facts and deliberately gone on a tour to learn more about spiders. And then when he got his spider powers it would be like "oh! I know how to do this like a spider" but then he would wackily mess it up because he's also still a human. I don't think that would be /good/, exactly, but at least Peter with a special interest in spiders is a Peter who had hobbies and interests pre-Spiderman other than generic nerd.

GraceH

Exactly!!! Earlier this year I watched There’s Something About Mary from 1998, in which Cameron Diaz is stalked by like 193394820388283 MEN??? And it’s ROMANTIC??? I was terrified 😭

Jaz Mei Luo

Hi Doll D, I just wanted to update you that I watched all of Spectacular Spiderman and yelled at the cliffhanger ending. Thank you for the rec 🙏🏼💛

Kav

I'm not the biggest fan of the MCU - Guardians of the Galaxy 2 is their only film I could ever say I loved and that's mainly because it uses a specific form of storytelling (picking one strong central theme and examining it in different ways through different characters [it's likely a good number of Jenny's Patron's would be Lindsay Ellis fans too so, for some reason even I can't really explain, I feel the need to say that I didn't steal that from her Guardians 2 video - it's something I've always loved and finding out she did too was honestly pretty cool. Pretty sure it's why she loves Moana so much and it's easily my favourite 'Disney' Disney movie for exactly that reason. Anyway...]) but I feel like this is a little harsh. Only a little but still. They might have lost their way a bit later on but and it's easy now that superhero movies are so dominant to forget how hard they used to be to get them greenlit without being about massively iconic characters or making huge concessions in how faithful they were. Given that, even though it was nothing special as a movie, the first Thor was... I really don't want to call Disney "brave" so let's go with "bordering on insane" by Hollywood standards in terms of how faithful the key iconography was. I mean, in a world where, up to that point, a team as iconic as the X-Men weren't allowed to use pretty much any of their comic book iconography, seeing Loki looking full-on, ridiculous Loki long before the MCU had become a commercial juggernaught was pretty wild. Now, sure, it wasn't a constant but that was the correct artistic choice for the medium as well (the helmet would have made close-ups look absurd). If the MCU is failing to live up to today's standards of comic book faithfulness, they're at least standard it created. On No Way Home, I'll freely admit I'm an optimist, sometimes to a fault, but I very much took that as the inter-movie equivalent of good-natured banter than as a cheap swipe. Given how heavily they leant on the Raimi characters, that had to at least have been their intent even if it didn't land that way for everyone.

Eric Houge

Yes, you make a lot of good points there. I actually did really like the more auteur-friendly early era of the MCU and the way that the Shakespearean flavor of Thor contrasted with the WWII-scifi-pulp feel of Captain America versus the "comic books are for adults now" tempered realism of Iron Man, etc. The Avengers is maybe where it starts to break down for me in terms of Whedon having to confront the problem of rolling all these disparate worlds and tones and characters into a single film, which leads to a necessary "flattening" that the MCU never really recovered from, stylistically. It may have been the mixed reception to Age of Ultron (which I think is doing some interesting stuff thematically, for as much as I remember it) that led to Kevin Feige deciding to tamp down on more nuanced storytelling in favor of black-and-white morality and "hangout" vibes where all the good guys just get along all the time and if they don't it's because of stupid plot points like mind control or misunderstandings or lies or whatever. By which I mean: I can't think of a time when a hero does anything that could potentially alter the audiences' opinion of them in a negative way, even though the kind of high-stakes storytelling constantly at play leaves a lot of room for characters to make choices of dubious morality. (See, for example, a franchise like Animorphs, which is ABOUT characters having to make impossible choices and sometimes having to make their peace with doing potentially "wrong" things for what they hope are the right reasons. And that's aimed at a much younger target audience! Whenever people make excuses for stuff being simplistic or predictable because it's "for kids", I wanna be like, "Um, stuff for kids can actually be really interesting, don't sell children short as prospective consumers of art.") As Scorcese said in his piece about the MCU not being cinema, the movies stopped taking risks, and I can't muster up much goodwill for a cinematic (crossed over with television) experiment that had maybe five or six good years in what is now a fifteen-year-run. I can agree that GotG2 was one of the few bright spots of the latter era of Marvel movies, but I can't bring myself to say ANYTHING nice about No Way Home, except that it gave a decent send-off to Andrew Garfield's portrayal that his own franchise couldn't afford him. Again, it does the thing of pretending it's engaging with some kind of complex moral theme by having Tom Holland's Spider-Man grapple with thoughts of vengeance after Green Goblin kills Aunt May, but when a psychopathic murderer can be magically cured by some Deus Ex Machina serum, your story isn't really talking about the difficult path of forgiveness. The lesson winds up being, "Don't kill somebody who wronged you IF they're three seconds away from being completely neutralized as a threat anyway." Not exactly (to borrow Jenny Nicholson's word) instructive. I think the Emo Peter Parker callback wouldn't have felt so malicious to me if that wasn't a sequence that fans had already been mocking consistently since the movie came out--just felt like another example of the MCU eagerly licking the audiences' boots to try to stay in their good graces by telling them exactly what they (the MCU) know they (the audience) wanted to hear. Like if The Batman had gone out of its way to include some quip about how dumb it would be to have nipples on the costumes. A work should strive to prove that it is good of its own accord, not prove that it's good by dunking on a thing it already knows you dislike.

Bad Poet

It's interesting that Jenny brings up Dexter like halfway through this vid bc when she talks about it being an amateur move to show Peter Parker's morning routine i thought about how the opening credits of Dexter show him doing very mundane things but w/ an underlying violence to how they're shot. Also made me think about the really boring start to Heavy Rain... but the less i write about that game the better off this comments section will be

Gus C

fav vid by far

Kav

Sorry, missed this (Patreon's comments section design doesn't exactly help). You make a lot of good points yourself. I also ended up so disappointed by how few artistic risks they were were willing to take in the majority of their films (to the point where Ant-Man and Wasp is pretty high up my rankings because it's it's a... marginally different kind of story. The stakes ultimately aren't any higher than interpersonal relationships and that was something). Like, I try to be a pragmatist when it comes to Black Panther and tell myself, "these are the most bearish executives in the world - having an almost entirely black, in many cases African, cast and setting it in Africa was always going to be seen as risk enough that it's too much to ask them to tell the story in a less homogeneous way [I basically feel that film would have been better in every way if it had been essentially the Director's Cut of Kingdom of Heaven but where people happen to have superpowers - it's not like they didn't have the cast for it, many of which were completely wasted in the final product]," but... I'm sorry, that was roughly the 20th movie in possibly the most unstoppable juggernaut of a franchise ever seen. The movie could take artistic risks as well as perceived social ones but, structurally, it ended up being so by-the-numbers that, for me it choked the life out of what, on paper was a great story. I know that's a pretty hot take so I'm not going to go into overt specific criticisms - especially since plenty of people who loved it wouldn't have wanted an epic, interpersonal drama instead of the... MCU movie™ they got. A subject for another day, perhaps. That's a very fair stance on Spider-Man thing. Even if I don't personally believe that's what they were going for, you have wholly valid reasons to call it the way you do and, to an extent, whatever your authorial intent is, you can't get involved in these massive crossovers without at least being aware of how your decisions are going to look to people taking everything into account and, like, you say, that makes a joke at the expense of something that's already been heavily mocked... a risky move to say the least. I only ever watched the film once and I avoid giving strong opinions on pretty much anything under those circumstances so I'll just say that, while I agree that the idea of MCU Spider-Man taking vengeance really did fall flat, it went WAY harder than I ever expected an MCU movie to go in terms of the classic Spider-Man thing of him seemingly being the one hero that eats the worst-case scenario full in the face every time. It may have been, as I'm trying to recall, consistently preposterous in the details, but the core idea of Peter not being able NOT to try for the absolute best outcome for everyone, risks be damned, only for those risks to functionally destroy his life? If there's one thing that's not, it's MCU same-ol'-same. Now, for me, it massively overcorrected - the driving force of Spider-Man's character has always been that he gets up and does the right thing no matter how many times life kicks him down, in contrast to some key members of his rogues gallery, who see being kicked down as a reason to believe that doing the right thing is for suckers - but there are far more elegant ways to get that idea across that don't, among other things, reduce Aunt May to a plot device (not that that hasn't been a favourite trick of the comics for decades, but still). That said, I'd always rather a film fail trying and overshooting than just... going through the motions and the MCU has certainly done far too much of the latter in its later days (I certainly never expected to come out of one of their films thinking it was way too much of a downer). So, yeah, I can at least give it that.

Matt

i bursted out laughing when you said that mj did the matusi

randa

for what it’s worth, i would very happily read whatever you’d like to say about heavy rain. signed, another person who did not enjoy the game

Bad Poet

Alright. So my thought about Heavy Rain was how the game begins with a tedious morning routine sequence. It ostensibly serves as a tutorial for the game's very basic QTE gameplay and i suppose establishes how perfect Ethan's life is before he loses his son, Jason, in a shopping mall then dramatically watches him get killed by a car. The opening sequence isn't necessary to the story because Ethan's guilt over his son's death is a more central theme than him losing his perfect life. A better director than David Cage would have cut this opening from the game and maybe started at the shopping sequence because that's the inciting incident and the shift from the vibrancy of the shopping mall to the sombre tone of the rest of the game would've been enough for the audience to get that his life has changed. The opening sequence also isn't necessary for teaching a player how to play the game. In one sense the controls are too simple to even require a tutorial, since the UI always tells the player what buttons need to be pressed at any given time. In another, where the game attempts to be challenging it does so by throwing new prompts at the player, which makes the pretence of a tutorial all the more pointless. All of that to say that Heavy Rain has a tedious opening, both in its story and gameplay.

Nopelahoma

A classic case of a person who doesn't know how 90's teens talked so they used talk from when they were a teen. This happened so much in the 80's and 90's. I knew about "soc" even though I never read "The Outsiders" but I never actually heard someone say it when I was growing up.

Alfie P

Okay there's like 250 comments already so I'm sure someone already said this better, but it's insane that the bridge sex scene happened and MJ DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS PETER THEN like that scene's whole premise is terrible if we're supposed to accept she believed Spidey was randomly dropping a bunch of dweeby spider facts and then she hooked up with him not knowing he's her classmate ? ??? And I don't know what this says about me, but if it was like, he told her a bunch of spider facts and she realized who he was then, them getting together in that moment would be kinda sweet at least. I thought that's what she, Peter, and the audience were supposed to believe was happening with that scene. But then?????

Mary Monigold

So glad someone else clocked that lol

jamezilla

The "white emissions" puberty thing completely falls apart when you consider that in the VAST majority of Spider-Man media the webs don't come from his body, but from a mechanical devices he creates. The webs aren't even actual webs, but a substance he designs himself.

Ella M

My Little Pony Tales starts with the ponies getting ready in the morning, and I will not stand the slander of this masterpiece.

dredgedMud

This video is a lurker ? But it was posted ? Well. At least it made me become unlike a spider.

Magistrissa

You know how poorly written villains will sometimes tell their soft boy hero that they're Not So Different, You and I, and you, the audience, roll your eyes because they're nothing alike? Well the spider-like men who are also in possession of birdlike eyries are nothing alike. But I was not aware just how terrifying a superhero could be until I heard about incel Peter Parker. Genuinely reads like Hal/Tighten from Megamind.

Magistrissa

When the word "soc" came up, I said "I only heard it from The Outsiders" at the same time as Jenny, just as as incredulously as she did.

Ella M

Jenny I was rewatching this and was just struck by how symmetrical your eyes look

Eric Houge

TBH I kinda prefer that approach to the thing I see so often today where Boomer/Gen X writers just shove a lot of empty woke-isms and meme speak into the mouths of their teenage characters without making it mean anything. Netflix's Wednesday has some all-time clunkers in that regard.

Markus D

Someone saying "woke-isms" makes me very cautious of them. However, I do think that some modern shows add glances at social justice issues without really exploring them in any way, if that's the kind of thing you mean.

Markus D

I think it works in something like an opening credits, especially if there's a sense of double-meaning or implications of something else going on, but I get what she's saying in that it can be kind of like the lazy shortcut of describing a character's physical appearance by having them looking in a mirror; it can feel unnecessary.

Steve Ray

Some banks go to the trouble of averaging out all the fractionals, so if some fee comes out to $0.041, they'll charge it at $0.04 the first four times, then #5 will be $0.05, and then the next five charges will be $0.04 again, to make everything come out as close to fair as they can.

Ellen Carpenter

Incredible to me that the origin of the villain's powers is the 20th century earthwork artist walter de maria's lightning field

Ella Taran

a tiny spider going home

Tom

I read the incel part as a kind of fable-esque outreach directed at what we now know as proto-incels. Common stuff in coming-of-age stories, and stories from earlier times. This one says, to young boys who have started to contemplate engaging in pervy behavior (e.g. peeping), that a better way to pursue girls is to develop a hobby, build confidence doing it, and then when the women come to them, pounce. As a young boy in that era who was glued to movies and TV, I can say this aspect would have fit right in with a lot of contemporary media. Even the graphic spider stuff would have been normal: Arachnophobia (1990) had been a success. And I find it really noteworthy that Cameron in '93 had tentatively chosen that peg to hang this hat. Those folks really need every off-ramp we can offer, so JC is really doing the Lord's work here. ;)

Kevin Morris

We must therefore conclude that Spider-Man is actually a metaphor for being trans and going on HRT.

jamezilla

If you're such a transphobic s***, why are you a fan of Jenny's?

Kevin Morris

…was that directed at me? If it came off as transphobic that wasn’t my intention, I was just making a joke about using a manmade substance because your body doesn’t produce it naturally that effectively makes you go through puberty.

The Latter Day Autist

He's a virgin. He wants to have sex. He likes biology. He spies on Mary Jane as she's undressing. He loses all control. Sheesh.

HRF ME

Absolutely losing my shit at the courtship dance

Silky

That actually makes so much sense! I'm replying to a months old comment but you just made me understand this story. It fits in perfectly with the overall theme that Peter has these different paths in front of him of what kind of man he wants to be! He has superpowers, does he use them to enrich himself and prey on women? Or does he try to be a hero, and also just try to talk to his crush about his interests and see if they connect? The sexy lady who hangs out with the villain represents this "dark path" as well: the villain keeps her around but clearly doesn't care about her at all. If Peter continues down the path of not respecting women for the sake of his own pleasure, he'll end up like him. Honestly under this aspect I think this is a workable concept for a movie. It would need some more work, especially around the villain's plot and whatever Peter is doing for most of the story, but I think this could actually be really good. A superhero coming-of-age story about choosing to be a good person, both as a superhero and as a normal teenager.

VorpalThumb

Wow. I mean, I'm actually not much of a fan of the Raimi trilogy, but... it's certainly an improvement over this.

Christian Howard

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