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San Francisco v. EPA (Patreon)

Published:
2025-03-18 08:00:06
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

How much poop is in our water? The Supreme Court says “not enough.” 

Thank you to our subscribers! We can only bring you the most up-to-date poop-related legal news with your support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Comments

Justin Hamilton

In Kennedy's defense (barf), a young person to him is Justice Kavanaugh.

Alcoholic Synonymous

Only stocks I’m concerned about are stocks and pillory. It may be childish but i just really don’t care for tomatoes.

Alcoholic Synonymous

I’m a wastewater operator. It’s sad how many of my peers are excited about this ruling. A lot of them also hope rfk gets rid of fluoride in the water because working with fluoride is dangerous. Wastewater is a results based profession. If the EPA had issued specific processes it required for effluents the court would have just ruled they were too specific. You’re exactly right that this is just their way of making life hell for regulatory agencies.

Ty

The EPA is only allowed to regulate via nudge

Gretchen Sprinkle

How dare you accurately assume I'd run a multimillion dollar business into the ground.

Joshua Golek

Civil / structural engineer here with some knowledge of water treatment. Great job explaining this case without getting caught in the weeds. IMO it is functionality impossible for the EPA to do more than provide and enforce quality standards- the thing the court just shot down. Every single treatment facility is different and uses different processes to achieve the goal of safe water. They achieve this through a series of steps that are both art and science. There is no universal process just a universal outcome. I miss you Chevron Def.

Joshua Golek

To build off Michael's comments. Yes to vaccines. Also, home and personal based filters can do a lot to remove bacteria, single cell organisms, and such. Removing viruses is much harder but it can be done. Of course it costs significantly more money and this will fall on the poor the hardest. Look at what Backpackers do if you'd like guidance for short term water treatment and safety while traveling to a 3rd world country such as Florida. Your safest and most exspensive options are filters that also remove viruses - prob $125 at an outdoor gear store (for now). These can be a great option for preparing water prior to mixing baby formula for example. Not gonna reccomend chemical treatment to the general public in an open forum- stick to filters. Along these lines N95 for respiratory stuff are available at any hardware store by the way. Sorry, in addition to being a terrible speller I'm also a Dad and sometimes this stuff just spews out of me (as so many other things are about to do) .

Mountain Dew Or Crab Juice

Smart enough to know I'd run a multimillion dollar business into the ground so I'd immediately sell and cash out; later suckers.

Ashley Bahr

Give p̶e̶a̶c̶e̶ diarrhea a chance

lily h

the city of pittsburgh still has a combined sewer system and gets a lot of rain and this happens there every time we get major rain

Lis

I am attacked, appalled and outraged at how accurate your demographic assumptions are regarding my financial situation .

gus

I can't remember the phrase exactly but the one thats like "claim no false wins" or something? but the liberals continually framing conservative justices as "actually moderate" or even like a "secret liberal" makes me think of that bc its like they dont wanna be honest abt the state of conservative wins, they wanna falsely claim that the left has power it doesnt, that liberals are flexing power that they arent etc.

gus
>>168176711

Not saying this in a defeatist way but i find it helpful to be clear eyed abt the state of things so you move accordingly. Not helpful to be like idk, that fires not THAT close when its flames are at your door

Matthew Rudley

Rhi may have individual stocks in their 401k unless they are only invested in index funds (which is the better move anyway)

Sara Leu
>>168145131

I’m studying microbiology with a focus on infectious diseases and second this recommendation. Death by diarrhea would be a super sucky way to go. This isn’t always practical while traveling, but worth mentioning that boiling water is typically your cheapest option.

Kazoolhu

The Supreme Court tells America to drink shit and die. America asks for seconds.

Sarah Korth

This is the exact advice that's in books on parenting a toddler. Don't give your child open-ended instructions. "You need to be ready to leave by 8am." Instead, you need to give them concrete steps. "You need to brush your teeth now. Put on your socks, then put on your shoes." So basically SCOTUS thinks the country, or at least the city of San Francisco, is made up of toddlers. Apparently.

Joshua Golek
>>168145131

You are 100% correct, and I should have mentioned boiling. I was fretting over microns and it slipped my mind. Cheers!

Dan Kolbert

Sadly the trump tweet is fake

Hannah

Was that a Cupcake cameo at 20:13??

Patrick Sullivan

Correction on Age of Diarrhea/Morons -- we're actually still in the midst of the Asshole Renaissance that began during COVID. This leads to the Age of Pant Shitting Morons.

Ian Uelmen

Workshopping this: Considering all the lady justices signed the dissent in this case, can we call them the 'no piss girl' minority?

Tyan Lee

Rhi’s “that’s the POINT” KILLED ME

Soph Emm

Hey now we’ve had sewage in our waters in the UK for years and we’re only just starting to form the 6th toes now. I have really fond memories of being in the sea in Southend-on-Sea as a kid and seeing fully formed human shit floating past me

Julia Hart

I was surprised because I thought that combined sewage systems were super common because I have lived near a dumping river all my life. Turns out it’s only 10% of sewages are combined and I just live in the NE and the infrastructure gets better as you move west

Mackenzie Conrin

Listened to West Virginia v EPA (July 2022 episode) for the first time this morning. The entire discussion, but especially around the 45 min mark, y'all nailed it at predicting the impending doom of events that are unfolding.

Guinevere Sims

I quoted Peter directly and borrowed a thought from Michael for a paper I wrote for my intergovernmental dynamics class in my public admin master’s program. “Peter Shamshiri, lawyer and podcaster” I wrote. I did have to cut out the cuss words and reference to sex parties, unfortunately, but maybe I should have just left it in. Fuckin’ whatever the world is on fire. 🔥