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NFTs on Patreon - Starting the Conversation (Patreon)

Published:
2021-05-05 16:49:04
Imported:
2026-06

Poll

NFTs on Patreon - Starting the Conversation

  • Yeah! It would be cool to get collectible digital tokens every month. 47
  • No, I don't really want to collect stuff digitally. 57
  • No, I think there is something morally wrong about NFTs. 87
  • 2021-05-05
  • 191 votes
{'title': 'NFTs on Patreon - Starting the Conversation', 'choices': [{'text': 'Yeah! It would be cool to get collectible digital tokens every month.', 'votes': 47}, {'text': "No, I don't really want to collect stuff digitally.", 'votes': 57}, {'text': 'No, I think there is something morally wrong about NFTs.', 'votes': 87}], 'closes_at': None, 'created_at': datetime.datetime(2021, 5, 5, 16, 49, 4, tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc), 'description': None, 'allow_multiple': False, 'total_votes': 191}

Content

Hey guys,

I've been getting progressively more interested in NFTs since around 2017 and today it finally boiled up and crossed into new territory. Today, I made a snap purchase to buy an NFT from an artist I like. I didn't buy it as an investment or a statement, I just wanted to buy it because I liked it and it cost around $20.

Here it is: https://www.hicetnunc.xyz/objkt/64311

I've been messing around with Hic et Nunc and it's been exciting to see NFTs thriving in a space that's being driven primarily by artists.

Personally, I would love to be able to subscribe to my favorite artists on Patreon and get new NFTs from them every month. Seeing a wallet full of art that I've helped support would be awesome. I already love supporting artists on Patreon, but this feels like the next evolution of that idea to me. I want to push more artists to consider this option as a way for me to collect their work, so I also want to talk about doing the same thing here.

The question is: If the price was right and there were no environmental concerns, would you be interested in collecting NFTs from me as a Patreon reward?

These theoretical NFTs would have to be minted in a proof of stake network like Tezos in order to bring the fees down low enough to offer them at reasonable prices. This wouldn't be a risky investment or some cynical play to flip collectibles for 10x cash returns, this would just be cool digital collectibles that you could buy, sell, or trade for normal human prices (less than $50).

In order to hold these, you wouldn't need to buy any crypto or even sign up for new websites. I'd just point you in the direction of a reliable wallet and I'd send you NFTs to your digital address directly.This isn't a guarantee I'm going to offer these and this isn't replacing physical prints. If anything, it relieves the need for me to treat prints as collectibles.Let me know if you've got questions or concerns down below. I'll be checking the comments to keep the conversation rolling.

Much love,

-Pete

Comments

Santiago

From what Ive seen on the most common NFTs I cant seem to go on board due to all its issues, but I do like the argument about making it like a small personalized wallet that is more symbolic instead of value oriented

Debbie Crookston

I don’t really like the NFT craze. If you’re going to buy digital art, buy it directly from the artist. NFT essentially includes a third (and sometimes fourth, fifth..) party that is unnecessary, and on top of it, you aren’t actually purchasing the art- only access to it. That access is problematic- the art can be taken down for violating the host sites terms, the host site may go down or disappear in the long run, there may be coding and compatibility issues between the access link and the host site’s software... for me it’s not worth putting the money on. I’d rather buy something and have the file/digital art itself.

Sam Lojpur

I'll be honest, I don't 100% understand the moral argument against NFTs environment wise, I think cryptocurrencies are far worse and I would like to see more backlash against the whole crypto thing rather than only hearing about it when artists stand to profit. That being said, crypto art as ownership seems really silly to me. It might be ignorance on my part but I don't know why I would pay for ownership of a thing if that ownership doesn't let me do something or use it in some way I couldn't otherwise. I feel like physical prints have intrinsic value as well as market value, but NFTs only have market value if that makes any sense. And I'm really not in the business of buying things planning to sell them later. Also there's no proof of ownership of the artwork when it's being added to the chain as far as I know? I don't understand what's stopping me from grabbing a random image of yours, adding it to the block chain and now owning your work without permission. If there's an obvious feature to stop one from doing that then someone let me know.

Cole Kurkowski

I guess I still don't really understand what an NFT is getting you in this situation. Especially since NFTs can only reference a file on a normal web server. If you want a digital way to "prove" that an artist produced the file you can already do that by signing files with a public/private key pair and you don't have to rely on any external party to continue existing for it to work. Admittedly there isn't much infrastructure (apps for viewing/verifying signatures, tools for creating signatures, apps for managing key pairs, etc.) in place to make that super user friendly, but the same is obviously true of NFTs. And building infrastructure for digitally signed art would be way easier than setting up infrastructure for NFTs.

Raziel Alphadios

I don't have anything against NFTs - other than the current environmental issues with proof-of-work and obscene fees that you did go over - but I find physical collectibles far more attractive, personally. A high quality print, signed by the artist's hand, that can very nicely be displayed on a wall or such, just seems to have much more intrinsic value in my head than a JPG file that's only unique/signed because some blockchain says it is.

Cole Kurkowski

Most (maybe all?) NFTs are implemented as part of a cryptocurrency. I personally haven't seen any criticism of NFTs that wasn't also criticizing crypto currencies more broadly. Technically it should be possible to prove whether an NFT was created by a specific person if you have the public key that goes with the private key they used to create the NFT but there are a number of complications there. Especially if a third party is managing the creation process it may not be possible to easily get at that information.

Peter Mohrbacher

That's really the idea. The tokens would be symbolic of the support created for the project.

Peter Mohrbacher

The main problems with physical collectibles are the waste they create and the cost of creating/shipping them. My hope would be that NFTs would create a lot of the same value with fewer issues overall.

Peter Mohrbacher

Having spent a lot of time recently using the infrastructure surrounding NFTs is actually part of why I like them so much. Using a decentralized wallet to access websites and content is a wonderful experience that I see expanding a lot over the next few years. I'd recommend messing with it if you haven't already.

Sam Lojpur

Yeah every nft is part of some crypto or another, so criticizing one implicitly criticizes the other. I just think artists get a lot more flack than they deserve for trying to get paid and contributing to a tiny fraction of emissions when you compare them to huge farms, but that's probably because artists have followings and farms don't. Good to know about the ownership though at least.

Peter Mohrbacher

The main arguments against NFTs environmentally only apply to the Etherium network and are largely misunderstood. While the network itself is currently very wasteful, the traffic on the network doesn't increase the energy cost in a meaningful way. The whole thing is counterintuitive. It's a sort of backwards world where the cars on the road all run perfectly clean, but the toll booths cause a ton of pollution. I wouldn't be minting these NFTs on the Ethereum network though, so it's all a moot point.

Peter Mohrbacher

Most of the NFT art sales I've seen have been primary sales directly from the artists to collectors. In this case, I'd be minting art and sending it directly to my patrons.

Peter Mohrbacher

I think when people hear about emissions issues, mostly what they are talking about is Bitcoin. While Bitcoin's environmental impact is very real it's also impossible to mint or trade NFTs with it. Considering it's literally impossible for Bitcoin NFTs to exist, I'm surprised the two get so easily conflated.

Raziel Alphadios

The costs compared to an ideal digital collectible are definitely higher, but I don't believe "waste" is necessarily a correct way of viewing these. A print definitely wastes less resources than a hypothetical LCD or OLED screen displaying the same image would if kept on 24/7... which, of course, is a rather silly thing to imagine, even though such digital displays are frequently used in commercial installations (although rarely to just display one static image forever, I suppose). I believe as long as someone values that object and it doesn't end up in a dump, it can't really be a waste. I haven't looked up numbers on this, but I imagine the actual transport/shipping is the most wasteful part of most physical collectibles, but those will hopefully keep getting better too, just like NFTs and other digital collectibles will. So... both should be viable, if the technology behind them is viable and not (too) wasteful.

Peter Mohrbacher

The waste issue isn't really one that's just coming up now. My wife has long been appalled by how much single-use plastic and cardboard our business generates. The amount of hydrocarbons expended to move pieces of paper around the world is sort of absurd when you start taking a 1000 foot view of the whole thing.

Michelle Norton

I think if it changed that the amount of waste was less than physical copies I might consider it, however collecting digital items has been a high value line for some time in the gaming world. From avatar items to in game collectables (The last wreck it Ralph movie even made a joke about it). So I doubt it will go away. However, I rather see NFTs use a digital signature that doesn't cause a huge amount of waste. Having said all that nonsense, I really like having the art I've purchased on display, which is not the end goal of high end collectors who keep art in tax shelters instead of putting them on display. NFTs could fill that weird niche of high end hoarders, but the rest of us want to see the art. I spent a long time in the appraiser space and I always thought squirreling away art was a waste in itself.

Michelle Norton

I haven't changed my pledge value cause, I think what you do even digitally for patrons is already are worth it. The average person though may not see it that way.

L

I think a big point to make here about NFTs/blockchain/crypto emissions is that it is such a 'loud' issue because of how easy it is to track. The amount of emissions for a lot of things are on massive scales, but it's hard to track and follow and isn't easily quotable. A simple example is amazon Alexa. To do the language decoding to make Alexa understand you, the carbon emission costs 350+ round trip flights (SF to NYC). Video for reference that discusses this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbRhcLHOBrE&t=173s And this was just to decode the language for Alexa. Siri, Google, and others are all using similar methods and energy costs. Hell, any technology you look at right now likely has a MASSIVE footprint in cost of emissions and energy. They are just 'removed' from the issue because it's not easy to calculate or pinpoint. (Think about how much a single product from Amazon does cost to have it produced in another country, shipped to the US, then flown to a warehouse, to ship it to you). This is why I think the idea that "NFTs are bad for the environment" is such missed point. Blockchain/Crypto is consuming an absurd amount of energy currently, and it needs to be improved, but it is also in its infancy. Any new advancement has had huge costs in producing it, whether that's money or emissions, but that doesn't mean we should stop advancing to improve it to be more effecient. With all that said, I think it would be quite neat to have digital 'signed' versions of your work. Hopefully one day it can be a very climate friendly option.

‡ Diesis Key ‡

Are you allowed to print NFT’s? I realise there is not way to prevent multiple prints, but it’s one way to cut down on the waste generated by mailing prints (I saw you mention that on another thread). I think I have the ones I want as convention prints at this point, but that would be the only reason I’d buy an NFT. For it to act as a substitute to a legacy print or such. That’s just the perspective of a Patreon patron who doesn’t really get NFT’s & I can’t chose any of your poll options. Since, “No, I don’t really get NFT’s” or “No, you’re the only artist I know using them.” It’s not morals or lack of interest. It’s a simple lack of knowledge, or the fact that you’d be the only artist I know/follow offering it.

Rene Arreola

Does this mean that you'd no longer offer a dropbox with all the digital assets? If that's the case, that would be a game changer and, unfortunately, a deal breaker.

Rene Arreola

The whole NFT thing feels like DRM (digital rights management). It's like comic books or movies on my iPad, I don't really own them.

Peter Mohrbacher

Those two things wouldn't be connected. This would just be about adding digital collectibles to the mix, not changing anything else around.

Peter Mohrbacher

The difference with NFTs is that you do really own them. In something like iTunes, you can't just take your licenses and leave, but the thing that's cool about NFTs is that you can actually do that. The ownership isn't built into the platform you get the thing from, it's part of a larger public utility that allows you to take your stuff and use it in different places. The decentralized Internet is a really cool thing.

Peter Mohrbacher

That's a really fair perspective. The adoption rate on this stuff is super low right now. NFTs make a lot more sense once you've spent some time hanging out on decentralized platforms. I think that's coming, but I also know I'm really early on this thing. Hence the conversation about it rather than an announcement that I'm doing it.

Rene Arreola

Thanks for explaining that, Pete. There's so much online regarding NFTs and I'm slowly educating myself on the subject. Trying to see and listen to both sides and everything else in between.

‡ Diesis Key ‡

Which I appreciate. I’m glad what I was trying to say came through. I always worry about tone. But I just wanted to give a few as someone who wouldn’t have issue with you doing them, but I wouldn’t be interested simply out understanding/product (?) want. But I wish you luck with them, you seem very excited about them & I think that’s an important thing for artists.

Rene Arreola

So I voted "Yeah! It would be cool to get collectible digital tokens every month." I'm thinking perhaps that's the easiest way to get involved in it. I can't afford to mint my own stuff as an artist, but maybe playing in the space in a way that you're describing would allow me to see how it works.

Rene Arreola

I noticed there is no longer a link on the Angelarium website for NFT?

Comrade Cameron

As late as I am and as little as my comment is worth. As an artist I think it’s interesting. And an okay way to make more money. As a consumer I could not care for them any less. If I love art I buy it and frame it on a wall.

Ansixilus

Regardless of my thoughts on the topic or my vote, I've a question: does the link to the nft you've purchased still work? As of when I'm checking, it only errors.