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'Oh wonder! How many goodly creatures are there here! How beauteous mankind is! Oh brave new world, that has such people in it.'

It’s time to begin our dystopian double bill, which will take us through two modern nightmare visions of the future. We're beginning with Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and then reading George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four back-to-back.

Our reading will teach us about totalitarianism, modernism, history, political oppression, the dangers of technological advance, how dystopias spring from utopian ideals, how these visions of the future are often critiques of the present, pleasure vs pain as methods of control, and much more.

Today we’re discussing how best to break into this fascinating genre and how to bring ourselves fully to these iconic dystopian visions.

Video Timestamps:

0:00 George Orwell’s dystopian vision

1:00 Aldous Huxley’s tyranny of pleasure

2:00 Brave New World vs Nineteen Eighty-Four

3:00 whose dystopia are we living in today?

4:30 how to read dystopian literature 

5:30 dystopian book club lecture series

6:30 development from utopian literature

8:00 reviewing Sir Thomas More’s Utopia

10:00 what does Utopia mean?

11:00 analysing More’s utopian society

12:30 the society in Plato’s republic

14:00 one man’s heaven is another’s hell

15:00 what does Dystopia mean?

16:00 reviewing Marx’s Communist Manifesto

17:00 an evaluation of Marxist ideology

19:00 history of society as class struggle

20:00 dystopian as descendent of the gothic

21:30 what is the value of dystopian literature?

22:30 the two fuels for dystopian literature

23:30 totalitarianism vs scientific advance

24:00 from Victorianism to Modernism

25:00 Jerome K. Jerome’s New Utopia

26:00 the influence of H. G. Wells

27:30 development of science fiction

28:30 nightmare of the twentieth century

30:30 reviewing Yevgeny Zamyatin’s We

31:30 Ayn Rand’s philosophy of Objectivism

32:30 Zamyatin’s influence on dystopian genre

35:30 reviewing Huxley’s Brave New World

36:30 are we living in Huxley’s dystopia?

37:30 the dystopia of Huxley’s World State

38:30 worship of hedonism and consumerism

39:30 circular vs linear views of history

40:30 mass production vs individuality 

42:00 the anxiety of the machine age

43:00 eugenics in the modern age

44:00 conditioning in behavioural psychology

46:00 caste system in Brave New World

48:00 Margaret Atwood’s Handmaid’s Tale

49:00 Murray Constantine’s Swastika Night

51:30 Huxley’s critique of social hierarchy 

52:30 placated and sedated by pleasure

53:30 what if we were happy all the time?

55:00 the characters of Brave New World

56:00 Savage Reservation in Huxley’s novel

57:00 allusion to Shakespeare’s The Tempest

58:30 the character of John the Savage

59:30 Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein

1:00:00 Prometheus and the Fall of Mankind

1:02:00 why is Shakespeare banned in dystopia?

1:04:00 ‘the price we have to pay for stability’

1:05:30 David Foster Wallace’s Infinite Jest

1:06:30 Ray Bradbury’s Fahrenheit 451

1:07:30 does Brave New World terrify you?

1:09:00 would you really want a perfect life?

1:10:00 ‘I don’t want comfort. I want freedom.’

1:11:00 reviewing Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four

1:13:00 George Orwell’s deathbed novel

1:14:00 ‘the clocks were striking thirteen’

1:14:00 read George Orwell’s novel as 1948

1:15:00 when is Orwell’s dystopia set?

1:16:00 commentary on postwar Britain

1:17:00 nightmare of the First World War

1:19:30 Hitler’s Nazi Germany and WWII

1:22:00 George Orwell’s Animal Farm

1:23:00 Orwell in the Spanish Civil War

1:24:30 George Orwell’s political thoughts

1:25:30 socialism in postwar Britain

1:27:30 deprivation in the wake of WWII

1:29:00 Cold War and nuclear anxiety

1:31:00 Airstrip One in Orwell’s Oceania

1:32:00 political satire on enemies vs allies

1:33:00 disastrous subtext in Orwell’s novel

1:34:00 Big Brother’s totalitarian state

1:35:00 ‘abolished, annihilated, vaporised’

1:36:00 two minutes of hate as struggle sessions

1:37:00 Hannah Arendt on totalitarian markers

1:38:00 ‘who controls the past controls the future’

1:39:00 ‘Freedom is slavery. War is peace.’

1:39:30 Winston Smith in Nineteen Eighty-Four

1:41:00 ideological absolutism in tyrannies

1:42:00 ‘two plus two equals five’

1:43:00 nightmare of Stalin’s Soviet Union

1:44:00 Orwell on censorship of writing

1:45:30 banning speech is banning thought

1:46:30 reading and writing is thinking

1:47:30 reading is deep emotional connection

1:48:30 freedom of speech as ultimate liberty

1:50:30 principles of Newspeak in 1984

1:53:00 George Orwell on doublethink

1:55:00 why thoughtcrime is death

1:56:00 Huxley’s review of Orwell’s dystopia

1:57:00 dystopian book club lecture series

1:58:00 your thoughts on these dystopias?

Resources:

  • Editions: There are many wonderful editions of Brave New World to choose from. I'm working from Vintage edition, a paperback perfect for marginalia. The introduction by Margaret Atwood is excellent. If you want a great hardback, the Everyman's Library edition is superb as always and has a marvellous introduction from the perceptive John Sutherland. For Orwell's dystopian nightmare, I value the Penguin paperback edition, which has a great afterward by Thomas Pynchon. Everyman's Library also have a great hardback edition, which has a great introduction by Julian Symons.

  • Meet the Author: As we're diving into Brave New World first, you might like to spend some time getting to know his thoughts on the craft of writing. The Paris Review has a fascinating interview with Aldous Huxley here, which was conducted thirty years after the publication of his extraordinarily influential dystopian novel. We're very fortunate to have access to several television interviews of the great writer too. His warning in this BBC interview from 1961 is as true today as it was then: 'Man is being subjected to his own inventions. He's now the victim of his own technology.' If you want more interviews, you might enjoy this one and this one too.

  • Audiobook: There is a phenomenal reading of Huxley's prophetic novel available here. Michael York does an excellent job with the narration. You may also enjoy this short radio dramatisation, which stars the great writer himself. CBS Radio Workshop was a series of radio dramatisations of imaginative literature that ran in the mid-fifties and they chose Brave New World to kick it off. For a more recent dramatisation, BBC Radio Four did a superb job with this exciting radio production starring Anton Lesser.

  • Debate: Two great writers and speakers battled it out onstage to determine whose dystopia is closest to the world we are living in today here. Will Self argued for Huxley's dystopia, whilst Adam Gopnik argued for Orwell's nightmare vision. The talk is chaired by Jonathan Freedland and there are some wonderful live dramatic readings of the works. The debate took place almost a decade ago, but is no less thought-provoking today. The talk is great to listen to either as an appetiser before reading or as desert at the end of your reading.

  • Screen Adaptations: There have been several adaptations of Brave New World, but none have managed to fully capture the depth of Huxley's dystopian vision. Here is the trailer for the nine-episode series from 2020 and Peacock/NBC, which is a very loose adaptation that came under critical fire for diverging too significantly from the original novel. You've also got this charmingly dated television film adaptation from 1980 and there is also an adaptation from 1998. I'd personally recommend reading the book first, thinking about how you would produce an adaptation, and then checking one out. You'd probably enjoy the film Equilibrium more than those adaptations. We'll make more dystopian film recommendations as we read through together.

  • Dystopian TV: Why not treat yourself to a few episodes of Charlie Brooker's profoundly dystopian television series Black Mirror? When you're not reading, give yourself a little screening of this masterpiece of television. I recommend starting with the episodes 'Nose Dive' and 'Fifteen Million Merits.' If you find yourself wanting to binge the series, then here are some more options: 'Be Right Back', 'Playtest', and 'The Entire History of You.' Think about how Huxley and Orwell's dystopian visions sublimely intertwine. How far off from our current reality is this really? Here is the series creator in interview talking about living in a dystopia. I agree with him when he says, 'You can psychologically profile someone based on what their favourite episode of Black Mirror is.'

  • Additional Reading: We mentioned a lot of different works and writers over the course of the discussion. Several of the most illuminating and complementary works are very slim, quite digestible, and make for a rewarding optional extra reading. I would recommend picking up one that intrigues you the most as this moment in time and dipping in here and there when you have the chance. If you're interested in checking out the most iconic work of utopian literature, then Sir Thomas More's Utopia would be for you. If you're interested in political philosophy, you could check out The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. If you want to see the work of dystopian literature that would influence so many works in the genre, including the works of Huxley and Orwell, then check out Yevgeny Zamyatin's We. If you find the genre's critique of totalitarianism to be fascinating, you might find George Orwell's Animal Farm, the satirical beast fable he wrote prior to his dystopian novel, an interesting one to check out. If you found the Neil Postman quote interesting, then you may like Amusing Ourselves to Death. If the allusion in the title of Huxley's book intrigues you, then some time spent Shakespeare's The Tempest is always going to be rewarding.

Reading Assignment:

Our next discussion will cover the first eight chapters of Brave New World by Aldous Huxley and will be out this coming weekend. This takes us through the first one hundred and twenty pages of the story depending on which edition you're working from.

So, start making your way into the first novel in our dystopian double-bill, thinking about the vision of the world that Huxley gives us, meeting the characters, and noting down any themes, ideas, or passages that personally resonate with you.

Questions for You:

1) What is your current relationship with Aldous Huxley and George Orwell? Is this your first reading or a rereading of these works?

2) What themes from your wider reading would you like to pull into your dystopian experience?

3) What is the most terrifying idea at the heart of dystopian literature?

4) What are you hoping to get out of your reading of Huxley and Orwell?

Happy reading, everybody!

Files

Previews only

How to Read Dystopian Literature: 1984 vs Brave New World

📚 Read the Great Books with the Hardcore Literature Book Club: https://www.patreon.com/hardcoreliterature ———————————— 🎙️https://open.spotify.com/show/70IZA248yNVkrjqzDNm6Lt?si=cadcb1c09ea74a51 (Subscribe to the Hardcore Literature Podcast on iTunes & Spotify) ———————————— 📔Contents Page: https://cutt.ly/CmNhRY3 🎖️ War and Peace: https://cutt.ly/U3nzGma 🎭 Shakespeare Project: https://cutt.ly/B3nxHH7 🐳 Moby Dick: https://cutt.ly/K3nzVKf ☄️ Blood Meridian: https://cutt.ly/P3nz6Qp 🍂 Wuthering Heights: https://cutt.ly/N3nxxYt 🇮🇪 Ulysses: https://cutt.ly/x3nxQmN 🚂 Anna Karenina: https://cutt.ly/vmNhAWv 💀 Crime and Punishment: https://cutt.ly/rmNhFt5 ⚓ Persuasion: https://cutt.ly/amNhX7b 🎠 Don Quixote: https://cutt.ly/cmNjoK4 🇫🇷 Les Misérables: https://cutt.ly/J3YixoA ———————————— 0:00 George Orwell’s dystopian vision 1:00 Aldous Huxley’s tyranny of pleasure 2:00 Brave New World vs Nineteen Eighty-Four 3:00 whose dystopia are we living in today? 4:30 how to read dystopian literature 5:30 dystopian book club lecture series 6:30 development from utopian literature 8:00 reviewing Sir Thomas More’s Utopia 10:00 what does Utopia mean? 11:00 analysing More’s utopian society 12:30 the society in Plato’s republic 14:00 one man’s heaven is another’s hell 15:00 what does Dystopia mean? 16:00 reviewing Marx’s Communist Manifesto 17:00 an evaluation of Marxist ideology 19:00 history of society as class struggle 20:00 dystopian as descendent of the gothic 21:30 what is the value of dystopian literature? 22:30 the two fuels for dystopian literature 23:30 totalitarianism vs scientific advance 24:00 from Victorianism to Modernism 25:00 Jerome K. Jerome’s New Utopia 26:00 the influence of H. G. Wells 27:30 development of science fiction 28:30 nightmare of the twentieth century 30:30 reviewing Yevgeny Zamyatin’s We 31:30 Ayn Rand’s philosophy of Objectivism 32:30 Zamyatin’s influence on dystopian genre 35:30 reviewing Huxley’s Brave New World 36:30 are we living in Huxley’s dystopia? 37:30 the dystopia of Huxley’s World State 38:30 worship of hedonism and consumerism 39:30 circular vs linear views of history 40:30 mass production vs individuality 42:00 the anxiety of the machine age 43:00 eugenics in the modern age 44:00 conditioning in behavioural psychology 46:00 caste system in Brave New World 48:00 Margaret Atwood’s Handmaid’s Tale 49:00 Murray Constantine’s Swastika Night 51:30 Huxley’s critique of social hierarchy 52:30 placated and sedated by pleasure 53:30 what if we were happy all the time? 55:00 the characters of Brave New World 56:00 Savage Reservation in Huxley’s novel 57:00 allusion to Shakespeare’s The Tempest 58:30 the character of John the Savage 59:30 Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein 1:00:00 Prometheus and the Fall of Mankind 1:02:00 why is Shakespeare banned in dystopia? 1:04:00 ‘the price we have to pay for stability’ 1:05:30 David Foster Wallace’s Infinite Jest 1:06:30 Ray Bradbury’s Fahrenheit 451 1:07:30 does Brave New World terrify you? 1:09:00 would you really want a perfect life? 1:10:00 ‘I don’t want comfort. I want freedom.’ 1:11:00 reviewing Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four 1:13:00 George Orwell’s deathbed novel 1:14:00 ‘the clocks were striking thirteen’ 1:14:00 read George Orwell’s novel as 1948 1:15:00 when is Orwell’s dystopia set? 1:16:00 commentary on postwar Britain 1:17:00 nightmare of the First World War 1:19:30 Hitler’s Nazi Germany and WWII 1:22:00 George Orwell’s Animal Farm 1:23:00 Orwell in the Spanish Civil War 1:24:30 George Orwell’s political thoughts 1:25:30 socialism in postwar Britain 1:27:30 deprivation in the wake of WWII 1:29:00 Cold War and nuclear anxiety 1:31:00 Airstrip One in Orwell’s Oceania 1:32:00 political satire on enemies vs allies 1:33:00 disastrous subtext in Orwell’s novel 1:34:00 Big Brother’s totalitarian state 1:35:00 ‘abolished, annihilated, vaporised’ 1:36:00 two minutes of hate as struggle sessions 1:37:00 Hannah Arendt on totalitarian markers 1:38:00 ‘who controls the past controls the future’ 1:39:00 ‘Freedom is slavery. War is peace.’ 1:39:30 Winston Smith in Nineteen Eighty-Four 1:41:00 ideological absolutism in tyrannies 1:42:00 ‘two plus two equals five’ 1:43:00 nightmare of Stalin’s Soviet Union 1:44:00 Orwell on censorship of writing 1:45:30 banning speech is banning thought 1:46:30 reading and writing is thinking 1:47:30 reading is deep emotional connection 1:48:30 freedom of speech as ultimate liberty 1:50:30 principles of Newspeak in 1984 1:53:00 George Orwell on doublethink 1:55:00 why thoughtcrime is death 1:56:00 Huxley’s review of Orwell’s dystopia 1:57:00 dystopian book club lecture series 1:58:00 your thoughts on these dystopias?

Comments

Kim Shepherd

Great lecture, Ben! I really enjoyed it. So thankful to have you and this group. I’ve been learning so much. Thank you😊

Greg

Thank you Ben for this informative and thought provoking discussion. Does anyone know, the reference to Dostoevsky at 1:51:00ish, warning us to be careful of what we say (because it will influence what we think/how we experience the world), is this a specific warning he made in his nonfiction writings? Or a general caution we take from his fiction?

Len Larsson

Hi Greg ... Dostoevsky often explored this theme in his works. i think Ben is referring to The Brothers Karamazov where the narrative illustrates how dialogue and rhetoric can mould one's beliefs and attitudes, reinforcing the idea that we should be mindful of our expressions. This is mentioned in quite a few of the philosophical discussions occurring throughout that work. Hope this helps.

Maggie Desbaillets

The greatest book I've read on socialism comes from I.R. Shafarevich: "The Socialist Phenomenon." He tracks the history of socialism from Mesopotamia to the modern day. It is the best study of the ideology I have encountered, and I cannot recommend it highly enough! I wrote a review on the book a little while ago if anyone is interested, it might prove helpful! https://maggiedesbaillets.com/a-history-of-socialism

Charles S.

This is something of a meta comment, but I wonder if others have the same difficulty I do when interacting with the conversation on an iPad. An errant fingertip while scrolling, and I lose my place and have to start again. There are so many insightful comments, but this difficulty tends to spoil the reading. Would appreciate hearing about others’ experiences with the technical side of the Patreon platform on IPad and other devices.

Bill McAuley

An excellent resource, CS Lewis, The Abolition of Man.

Valentina

Hi Charles, you may find a feature in the settings that helps. For example there is a feature in the accessibility section in the general settings on iPad that makes it undo an action if you shake your iPad - I switched that off. There is also a way of making the scrolling either quicker or slower but I can’t find it now.

Barbara Lucrezia Paganelli

Obviously you don't know Marx, who never said that the state should own the means of production, he said the workers, which is a slightly different concept. I am a communist, my grandfather and my great-grandfather were communists. In Italy we had the largest communist party in Western Europe. Its dismantling meant the dismantling of workers' rights: precariousness, ever lower wages, destruction of public health and education. Tuscany, my region, was governed by the PCI for decades, and this had turned our region into a model to imitate. In the 1980s a friend of mine moved here from Rome, and when her brother came to visit her, he said: It looks like Sweden. Exactly. The Sweden of the 1980s. Without socialism, social democracies would not have existed. Without Marx, the socialist and workers' movement would not have taken the form it took at the end of the 19th century. After the collapse of communism, because the weakening of social democracy, and the imposition of the ordoliberalism in Europe after Maastricht, the social gap has widened. Today, we live in a world in which the social gap is greater than it was in France on the eve of the revolution. The fall of communism has brought us back to the Middle Ages. I came from a place where the communism which you declare impossible had been made real. I know what the PCI has made in every single villages of my region, with the great Houses of People, where culture and cooperation and solidarity has been made avaible to everyone. And by the way, in Italy communism didn't meant atheism either. My grandmother were communist and Roman Catholic, she said the rosary every night, and my grand father said Jesus was the first communist in history! That, of course, is not true, but it explains his feelings. In Italy the state could be a bit paternalistic, but no one was left behind. The season of state massacres that fueled red terrorism, as it is known today, was orchestrated by Gladio, a secret organization created in our country by the CIA with the aim of preventing the communists from coming to power. Have you ever heard of Piazza Fontana? The Italicus and Bologna massacre? In the early seventies we even risked a coup d'état similar to Pinochet's (by the way, who was behind that...? oh, the CIA again!) So, who is the real monster? The bad fruit. Italian students went to the USSR for cultural exchanges. In the Soviet Union there was (and still there is in Russia) a city called Togliattigrad: Togliatti was one of the founding fathers of our republic." History is written by the victors", as you should know. And we lost, I know. In the last two years, there have even been attempts to erase the fact that Hitler was defeated thanks to the USSR too.

Robbie Moore

Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman - fiction based on life in the Soviet Union. He was an author whose works were heavily sensored and repressed. He was also an eye witness, front line reporter to WWII in Russia. great book to read on this theme. Highly recommended

Yixi

I’m a little behind the schedule but I just wanted to say that thank you Ben for leading us reading these books, especially the “1984”, which I first read in the year of 1984, in the People’s Republic of China, believe or not! I got a copy of it from a Canadian student who was visiting Shanghai, where I was a nurse. I read the book in great awe because the author was describing the life we were going through so accurately! I was in awe: I wondered how did he know the life we had gone through during the Cultural Revolution and the “red terror” was still over our head constantly even the Cultural Revolution was over and Mao was dead? Many years later I learned that the Chinese communist party was diligently imitating all sorts of Soviet experiments, of the latter Orwell knew very well.

Shana D

I have to admit I am having trouble with 1984. It's the remaking of the past. There is so much of that going on where I live it is truly horrifying. I see some if BNW with obsessive doomscrolling and mindless feeds being our Soma. But 1984 seems more ominous. You can tell where I live. Truth is inconvenient.

hardcoreliterature

Wow!! That's such an amazing story for your relationship with this incredible book and such a profound reading, Yixi! Thank you so much for returning to it and deep reading it with us!

Danny

Barbara, which of the two books do you like best? I liked 1984 best. I do share some of your skepticism in certain gov't agencies. I do not, however, see how all the means of production could be owned by workers unless the government controlled that relationship—and you own what you control. If I built a factory in my backyard, then hired 100 workers, how would the workers own it unless the state stripped the ownership from my hands? Moreover, if the state strips it from me and gives it to the workers, then the workers don't really own it, either. A state with power to take from an owner and give to workers also has power to strip it from the workers. That means the state owns it the entire time. I also don't see how a state could do such a thing without the threat of death backed by power. It sounds very oppressive. Granted it wouldn't feel oppressive to people who were temporality benefiting from it; but that feeling seems accidental and based solely on the person just happening to desire the thing that the powerful group wants the person to desire. You can have communities of various sizes that can share and share alike. But sooner than later you grow to a size where that will not continue unless a powerful group forces people to do it. What do you see me missing in my thoughts about this? Thank you for sharing about your grandparents. I've been to Italy before and it was wonderful. I bet it's awesome to be able to live there.

NicoleA

I stopped using social media and reading any news when I noticed the level it was conditioning me to live in fear and to dislike any person with a different opinion than mine. Even now, when reading I sometimes notice my mind searching for evidence to back up my opinions and prove others wrong - rather than reading to expand my mind. I think both Orwell's and Huxley's futures have been realised. People live in fear and numb themselves with constant dopamine. There are dreadful things happening in the world but when you look at the world on a long enough timeline then it is improving greatly..