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The Count of Monte Cristo - Lecture Six: The Revenge (Chapters LXI-XCII) (Patreon)

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2023-08-27 20:29:49
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Content

"When one lives among madmen, one must train as a maniac..."

Today our exhilarating journey through Alexandre Dumas' The Count of Monte Cristo continues. And we're talking about duelling, revenge, mercy, romance, honour, and much more. 

Timestamps:

  • 0:00 the first duel of Alexander Dumas
  • 5:00 a turning point for Edmond Dantés
  • 9:00 imprisoned in one’s own mind
  • 13:00 the roles we play in our lives
  • 18:00 the marvels of Monte Cristo
  • 20:00 popularity of revenge stories
  • 24:00 the past returns to haunt us
  • 26:00 the process is the punishment
  • 28:00 Monte Cristo mocks Danglars
  • 34:00 Haydée, Albert & Fernand
  • 40:00 on swift vs slow revenge
  • 44:00 Albert challenges Monte Cristo
  • 48:00 the death of Caderousse
  • 52:00 Mercedes implores Edmond
  • 56:00 the avenging angel is overcome
  • 1:00:00 downfall & death of Fernand
  • 1:03:00 your thoughts on the story?

Recommended Resources:

  • Translator Deep Dive: If you fall in love with a particular translation, it's always worth seeking out what other stories the translator has translated. It's a great entrance into other authors. Robin Buss has gifted us translations of Camus, Zola, Barbusse, and many more.
  • Dumas as Special Author: As we approach the conclusion of The Count of Monte Cristo, readers who have loved Dumas' writing might want to think about picking up more of his works. The Three Musketeers and The Black Tulip would make for great choices.
  • Influences: Dumas constantly implores us to return to Shakespeare and Byron. Why not treat yourself to a viewing of Hamlet, Macbeth, or Romeo and Juliet? You could also have a listen to Byron's Manfred or dip into his Major Works.
  • Short Story Pairing: You might wish to check out Alexander Dumas' short story called 'Zodomirsky’s Duel' here or listen to Laurence Olivier's reading of it here.
  • Children's Illustrated Edition: As many readers here are parents, I'd like to recommend this fantastic children's version of the story. This adventure tale is highly likely to hook many younger readers and kick off a journey reading the classics.
  • Our Adventure So Far: If you would like a refresher for any of our discussions, then you can return our lectures here, here, here, here, here, and here.

Reading Assignment:

Our next discussion will take us through to the end of the story, which runs to page 1243 in the Robin Buss Penguin edition. 

Questions to Consider:

1) Why are revenge stories so popular?

2) How can we let go of the past? Should we?

3) What do you make of how the revenge is carried out?

And please do share with us your favourite passages and ideas from the latest instalments of this riveting story.

Happy reading, everybody!

Files

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Comments

M. C.

Ben and fellow readers, this was the best adventure for me so far. I absolutely loved it, I apologize for not waiting and pressing on to the end. You are in for a real treat. Happy Reading. M.

Tena Sue

Hi all, I did finish the book because I needed something to do while in the hospital, so I’ll keep my comments general. This is my first book with the club, and I absolutely loved it. The lectures were so deep and thought provoking, and all the comments/discussion have really added to my learning and growing as a person. I cannot wait to continue on with the club. Thank you all! “how can we let go of the past? Should we?” Keeping in mind I haven’t had anything as tragic as what happened to Edmond occur in my life, I do think it is important to feel the feelings from, think about, learn from and then move on from the past. Holding onto anger or negative emotions only does damage to me, it never blossoms into anything positive. It’s just not who I want to be, in the end. I want to remain a positive and loving person, and sometimes that takes great effort to not let darkness come in and stay. What we water is what grows, so if I water hate, anger, resentment, fear, revenge, etc, that’s who I will become. I think we clearly see this lesson in this story.

hardcoreliterature
>>116170578

I’m so happy to hear that! This really has been an incredibly thrilling adventure. Thank you so much to everyone for making it such a special reading experience 🙏☺️

Tatiana

What a great lecture, I especially enjoyed the information about the connection between Dumas' personal life and the novel. Every novel reflects an author's preoccupations, and in some way their biography. I was also interested in the observation that for Frenchmen of the time reading a revenge novel was a step up from actually watching public executions. A sublimation of violence. The role public sports now play for modern audiences. Noting in particular that in Spain centuries of bullfights have only in the last 20 years or so been mostly replaced by fights in which the bull is no longer physically attacked by the picador and matador, replaced by a game of dodge between the matador and bull. I actually finished MC last week, 1,600 pages of French, OMG. The only way to top that would be to tackle the Mahabharata in Sanskrit. I thought of this while watching the fabulous movie Oppenheimer yesterday, he did in fact do this! I'm no Oppenheimer. My question is this, Ben, you told us your Mum is reading MC, does she like it?

hardcoreliterature
>>116172107

Congratulations on finishing the book, Tena! Thank you so much for your kind words. I’m thrilled that you loved your first read with the club so much. And I’m so sorry to hear that you’ve been in the hospital. I hope you’re able to recover as swiftly and fully as possible! Thank goodness for writers like Dumas in times like this. I love your meditations on the damage that comes from holding onto negative emotions. Your gardening metaphor is such a perfect one to beautifully illustrate a very powerful point that I fully agree with!

hardcoreliterature
>>116174486

Thank you so much, Tatiana! It really is so fascinating to see the artist’s life in the work, isn’t it? A huge congratulations on clocking so many pages of French! Wow :) That is such an impressive reading accomplishment! It’s great to hear that you got to see Oppenheimer. “Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.” Nolan and everyone involved delivered a truly powerful film that is still weighing heavily upon me since I saw it. I can’t get it out of my mind. And my mother is enjoying Monte Cristo. She’s still quite early on in the story but she’s finding the setup very interesting. From a few things she’s said, I think she might benefit from picking up a better translation and one that isn’t so significantly abridged. I’ll have to ask her again how she’s getting on :)

Constance Stanton

I, too, went on to finish the book at this time because I wanted to see how events played out. The whole dueling culture, and perhaps revenge in general, confound me. How does injuring or killing another restore one’s honor? (John Wick - IV presents an interesting perspective on this…..no spoilers if you haven’t seen it.) It seems very arbitrary as it depends on the skills of the participants with the weapons chosen, more that the principles involved. Albert did not know the truth about his father when he challenged Beauchamp but he did when he challenged the Count, and did it anyway. I’m glad Albert ultimately did the right thing and stopped the nonsense. What is interesting is that the Count is beginning to question his belief that his revenge is justified because he is acting as an agent of God. How can we let go of the past? Should we? I have wrestled with this question recently following an episode with someone who said some very hurtful, and in fact, abusive, things to me that were way beyond the pale, an opinion corroborated by everyone who knows what happened. Should I forgive and forget? Can forgiveness be conditional….that is, dependent on whether an apology is forthcoming? I think I can forgive him, but have decided to avoid his company so as not to risk being subjected to abuse again. So have I really forgiven him? Am I really free if I allow myself to be constrained by having to avoid him? Is it OK that for the sake of my mental and spiritual health, I set aside hurt feelings and injustice, and move on and let go of the past?

Clare Shepherd

I'm feeling breathless with this rush to the end, and falling behind. I have another 80 or do pages to finish this section. I am not enjoying the protracted dealings of the deaths in the de Villefort clan and the machinations over Vallentine's wedding. The Count 's presence is missing too. I'll be glad when these chapters end and Villefort gets his comeuppance. The pace has fallen off too. I think the first half of the book was better. I'll listen to Ben's lecture in ghe morning. That always gives me a boost.

jack walsh

Great, penetrating lecture, Ben. You ask why we enjoy revenge stories so much, and that's serendipitous, as I've been deliberating on why since we started the novel. I think we may find it cathartic, as it allows us to purge ourselves of felt wrongs without actually engaging actively with any transgressor. But I also think it benefits us by illustrating, as does Dumas, that there is a heavy price when one engages in revenge, even if the revengeful endeavor is successful. On another note: I learned the value of keeping pace with the lectures by not doing so with this story (I completed it a few weeks ago). I'm finding consequences in that I feel distanced from the material as well as by knowing more than I would or should, and I find myself reluctant to delve into what I have learned, not wanting to inadvertently dish out any spoilers. In addition, I enjoy the discussions more when the material discussed is fresh in my mind. I've found by reading and then soon discussing my reactions that I iron in events and revelations, both of plot and interpretation, much more soundly. I'll not make this mistake again.

Jan Mariolle

It’s great fun to imagine ourselves as powerful beings in our own lives. Especially if required to eat humble pie on a regular basis as many people serving others do. A good revenge story allows me to take control, if only in fantasy, which eliminates victimization and the unhealthy path that mindset leads to. I finished CMC, found it amusing to read,but learned that I prefer a character driven rather than plot driven novel. I’ve been spoiled by Jane Austin and Charles Dickens. I like to feel as if I can know a character not just observe them. Thanks for the always insightful lecture.

Hazel Sun

Reading Monte Cristo has been so much fun! And just like many others, I think it keeps better and better as you go! Wanting revenge is a very human feeling, but Edmond takes it to quite another level. The amount of time he spends building up this character of Monte Cristo, plotting, scheming, and setting up his revenge - seems like anyone with a heart would at some point stop before actually carrying out such a plan. He is totally obsessed with destroying those who wronged him. I can’t imagine sacrificing my life to cause so much pain to others. Especially since it’s not just those who hurt him that are paying the price. I do find it interesting though that Caderousse is given so many chances. He is given a chance to save himself over and over. So in the end, is it really Edmond that is the cause of his death?

Jamie Newman
>>116178204

I'm with you Jack; I think the catharsis is why we enjoy the revenge story. It's sort of a strange play on the scapegoat. We can put all our frustration into it without (as you said) getting our hands dirty.

Sarah Clark

This has been a deliberate exercise in slow(er) reading for me, so I'm pretty proud that I did NOT finish the book! (I may curl up and zoom through at least some of the last section tonight before bed though). I really enjoy all the character arcs, and after giving it a bit of a rest, I want to go back to the opening chapters with young Mercedes, to see if there are glimmers of the wisdom and strength of character we saw in this section. 1) Why are revenge stories so popular? Because we've all been wronged, though hopefully most of us not so horribly. Also, at the risk of sounding anachronistic, the further we get into the story, the more it seems to be the tale of Edmund Dantes processing his trauma by becoming the agent of providence. There were certainly better and more nuanced ways of going about dealing with what happened (which he seems to be realizing in this section), but there are also worse ways of dealing with it. Yes, Dantes' primary motive is revenge, but these are also pretty terrible people who should not have positions of power in the world, and who haven't reformed despite plenty of chances to do so. 2) How can we let go of the past? Should we? The only way out is through. Meaning, we have to process and come to terms with the past before moving on, 3) What do you make of how the revenge is carried out? While Dantes is still the mastermind, ultimately each of the characters has been destroyed by their own choices and flaws. The phrase poetic justice keeps coming to mind. Which I just realized ties in wonderfully to my chosen quote, from page 952, when Morcerf learns his crimes are about to catch up with him: "Moral wounds have the peculiarity that they are invisible, but do not close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain tender and open in the heart."

Tatiana

The way I understand revenge is in comparison with justice. Revenge is personal and has no socially redeeming value, its origin is probably biological, a step along the way in the evolution of consciousness. Justice, on the other hand, is both personally satisfying and socially essential. I was trying to think how CMC would have to be rewritten to change it from a revenge novel to a karma novel. Meaning instead of having the Count as an agent of retribution, each of his betrayers met the same end independently of him. The sins for which each of these were punished were well above and beyond what they did to Dantes, in each case that was just one example of the harm caused by the bad character that they continued to exhibit throughout their lives. Any of Fernand's enemies could have found him out and ruined him; greedy people, especially gamblers, like Danglars, often go under (Bernie Madoff), and Villefort as a harsh judge is a classic example of judge not that ye be not judged. As written, CMC is in a way a romance novel with a rich, handsome, brilliant hero. The difference is that in romance novels the perspective is from the female trying to marry such a man, whereas in CMC the hero is the focal point, and yes, he does get the girl in the end. Traditional romance novels are upwardly mobile wishful fantasies of women; CMC appears to be the same for men. It would be harder to hold the novel together with the glue of the Count's machinations, it would probably be a much shorter novel. The advantage of the length of the story for readers is that they get to stay in it for a long time, and for the author, he gets paid more the longer he can keep the serial going.

Rachel Brown

My first book with this reading group and I loved it. Not only for the amazing lectures but also reading all of the comments - it all added to the experience. I really enjoyed this book - first time reading it and once I got close to the end, I had to finish. It really is the ultimate revenge story - to plot for so long and execute to perfection. How the Count put it all together and watched it all come together but still watching out for those he loved and cared for.

Mike
>>116185682

Great quote Sarah! Exactly the same quote I planned to include in my comments. You are right - the only way of letting go of the past is to process it, learn the painful lessons, and move on.

Caroline P
>>116188953

Hello Rachel, the comments are great aren’t they. I really enjoy reading through them and agree, they definitely add to the experience. I think they bring the whole reading experience to life in a way. I don’t really know avid readers in my day to day life so these comment sections are a joy.

Jane

This multilayered novel has been an amazing reread for me mostly because you have made it ‘marvel lous’ Ben thank you ! My favorite scenes are the ones with Mercedes and Edmond who is finally named. I have loved the way Dumas has played with names and identity throughout the novel. Gosh what a novel. The risky theme of revenge seems to be saved by a mother’s love, Mercedes and Edmond s real name. I could go on for ages but I won’t :) I am so looking forward to the next instalment , I enjoy reading together and reading everybody’s input.

Misha

First a quick shoutout to this group for not even batting an eye at reading 300+ pages in just over a week! Along with other life reads, I'm sure. This, along with the perpetually insightful comments, is what makes this the creme de la creme of reading groups. Bravi a tutti! Mediocre Italian food for everyone! And brava to me for the unparalleled restraint I exercised in not finishing this absolute romp. The force is strong in this one (me) but I'm relieved that it's time to be weak. Can't wait to see how this all ends though, as always, I'll be sad to see everyone go. It's interesting to hear Ben say he felt sympathy for Danglars. I didn't realize that I didn't until he did. Nor for Caderousse, nor Morcerf. I consider myself an empath (a word ruined by online pseudo psych speak along with "narcissist" and "gaslighting," RIP to all) so that gave me a think. To me, the suffering and isolation Edmund unfairly endured is basically carte blanche for all he's done and then some. Not so much that I condone his wild revenge plotting. But the lasting psychological and emotional effect that level of trauma undoubtedly has had on him - I guess I'm impressed that he hasn't done more. Of course ticking off his enemies Kill Bill style will do nothing to repair what's been broken. Undoubtedly all this traveling, scheming, and enacting has proved terrific distraction from processing the monumental grief of a lost father, a lost love, a lost friend and teacher in the Abe. Lost youth and a lost faith in the goodness of man most of all. I think my sympathies are SO with Edmund that I only worry for what will happen next. When (if?) the list is done, revenge come to fruition. What will happen when it's done and quiet? I guess we'll see. To end on something lighter, my favorite character in this last portion was undoubtedly Beauchamp! There's something about his cool, unbothered response to everything - whilst maintaining strength of character - that makes me think him the only true match for 'Monte Cristo.' This exchange, among many others, really made me laugh: "'Three weeks!,' Albert cried. 'But three weeks are three centuries in which I shall be dishonoured!' 'If you had remained my friend, I should say to you: Patience, friend. You have made yourself my enemy and I say to you: What do I care, Monsieur!'" Beauchamp spin-off anyone? :) A bientot, mes amis and happy reading! See you at the finish line.

Tatiana

Beauchamp is a wonderful exemplar of the Fourth Estate (the press) newly established as such in the mid 1800s, when Dumas was writing. Apparently the term was coined by Edmund Burke in England, which had the same three original estates (clergy, nobility, commoners).

Clare Shepherd

I got into a reading slump yesterday afternoon and was disconcerted that Ben had put up the 6th lecture. However,after dinner I got most of the backlog pages finished. Amazingly the power of Dumas' writing drew me in and onward. To cap it all I listened to Ben's terrific lecture and now I'm on fire to finish the book. The comments here too enthuse one to go on. I find that this community and Ben enriches my reading life, and for that I am grateful. I'm up for more Dumas, if our schedule permits. I shall now return to Dumas' in the garden, pencil in hand. Have a good reading day everyone.

Clare Shepherd

Oh, I forgot to comment on revenge. Personally, I think revenge damages the perpetrator nearly as much as the victim. It's better to move on before the slight, hurt or whatever festers and damages you. That festering causes more damage that revenge doesn't cure. Forgiveness benefits the wronged otherwise the one who did the wrong wins.

Terri Matter

This book is so different than I remembered (which, of course, means that I am the one who has changed). All the excitement is still there, and the suspense. I remember, in my youth, racing to reach what surely must be a romantic “happy ending” for Edmond. But in my old age, I really feel the melancholy of all the wasted years and wonder at the truly rich life he could have been leading if he had not been obsessed with revenge. The happy ending I now look for is for Edmond to rediscover the ability to fully love and open himself to other human beings. Thanks to Ben and the club, as always, for enriching the adventure.

Ellen M

Like so many here, I went full speed ahead couldn't stop myself from reading on-I finished this while on vacation and it was the perfect poolside read, such fun watching Dantes peel off the layers of his revenge. The reunion with Mercedes was what I was waiting for more than anything and it was a bit anti-climactic- but that is on me since I don't know how the meeting could have met my expectations after hundreds of pages of waiting. Of course once Mercedes said she recognized Edmund all along, all I could think of was the fact that no one else did. I held off watching an adaptation but I am curious to see how films handle this supposed transformation that renders Dantes unrecognizable to Danglars and Fernand. It was never believable but wonderful to imagine all the same. Ben, I loved hearing the back story on the duel of Dumas and history of dueling in general: anyone else have the tune from Hamilton in their head while listening to the rules of dueling?? The Ten Duel Commandments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW3-3Xy0kCo

Jenny

This is one of the best books I’ve read in recent years and is definitely in my top 5. I can’t wait to finish it. I think most people have experienced some abuse that has gone unpunished ( at least in the short term ) and therefore there is great satisfaction to be had in a story where the wronged person gets their revenge. We can imagine ourselves in their situation and we can celebrate their success without risking our own morality. I have learned to ignore any revengeful feelings and trust in fate and Karma to punish those who have injured me. I can’t imagine living in an age when it was acceptable to challenge someone to a duel. Is that because I am a woman and men think more of their honour? Our past forms part of who we are today and therefore I believe we shouldn’t forget it, but we can change the way we feel about it. We can often use the experience to our advantage and to make us stronger. Dave Peltzer comes to mind but he’s a controversial author so I won’t elaborate. This was my first reading of this book and I don’t recall watching a film version therefore I was intrigued as to how Edmund was going to exact his revenge on his betrayers. Dumas gave us stories within the story which sometimes seemed irrelevant but he was carefully weaving a web to catch his enemies. What I admired was the way each protagonist bought on their own downfall through their greed and selfishness. So far each has had an opportunity to reform and I really thought Caderousse would have been the one. I don’t imagine Villefort or Danglers will be let off the hook though. The CMC has set them up nicely to ruin themselves but will that result in their deaths especially if Mercedes persuades Edmund to give up his manipulation of their situation. I am pleased that the CMC hasn’t committed any crime and has not lost his fundamental goodness. I am looking forward to finishing the story tonight.

Karen Beard

From the time that Mercedes reveals that she knows who Edmond is through to the suicide of Fernand, was such compelling narrative, I could not pull myself away from the story!!!! I was surprised that Mercedes was able to move the Count with her pleas as a mother to spare her son. Despite his obsessive focus on his mission, he softened, and Edmond emerged from beneath the veneer of the Count. I am truly enjoying this one!!

jack walsh
>>116216849

I agree with the spirit of your post, Terri. I find myself surprisingly looking at the story as a coming of age novel. Dantes lost many still formative years in the solitude of that prison and, once escaped, needed an equal number of years to learn what he would already have, hopefully, otherwise. I'll not go further than that in respect for those who are keeping pace with the lectures in their reading, as I wish I had. In addition, are we not all living a coming of age story, no matter our age?

Eileen

I can't stop reading and finished the book yesterday! It was such a pleasure! My favorite chapter was "Night" (pp. 979 - 986). Only a few pages, but such a suspense! My smartwatch beeped two times "high stress alert, time for relaxation". 1) Why are revenge stories so popular? I think, because everybody can relate. While luckily few things happen like they do to Edmond, there are many minor hurts in life that you might want to take revenge for. And that will then amount to the fact that the person if they don't expect it at some point, will get an appropriate answer. I think that if there is a crime - like here - a functioning justice system can take away a lot of the feelings of revenge. But depending on the seriousness of the crime, probably not all feelings of revenge. 2) How can we let go of the past? Should we? At some point yes. Because at least you have only one life and this should be lived in peace and tranquility and not with hatred and plotting. 3) What do you make of how the revenge is carried out? I was very happy, that Albert didn't loose his life in this duel. And I felt sorry for Valentine. The children should not be punished for the crimes of their fathers. Especially if they don't even know them. Albert apologizes to Edmond when he found out from Mercedes what happened back then. And I think Valentine would have been horrified too if she had known the truth about Villefort. I think Caderousse deserved his death, he has had enough chances to live a simple life but his greed brought him into this. Fernand's suicide seems reasonable given his crimes as a whole. At least it was his own decision. In opposite to Danglars he really loved his family and I think, this was the only way for him out. I'm already looking forward to the next lesson! Happy reading everbody! Greetings from rainy Nuremberg.

Jen Clair

I don’t think I have ever read a better book. I finished it earlier and let’s just say I was really surprised. Regarding the revenge plot: I think it’s delicious until Albert gets involved… I feel bad that the Count befriended him all the while plotting for the downfall of his family. Caderousse had a chance to clean up his act and he embraced his inner- dirtbag— but I don’t think he deserved to be murdered. Fernand’s suicide bothered me more than I would have expected. I actually felt sorry for him a little and felt worried for his family. I was really worried about Albert and concerned about how far the Count is taking this…. Poor poor Valentine too. I was enjoying the revenge but felt bad for the kids . Oh this is perfectly plotted! You think you know what’s going to happen— nope! I think we need to let go of the past— but the count’s scheming is perfect and satisfying and horrifying. A true cautionary tale. You think about The Cask of Amontillado, and the reader never knows exactly what Fortunato did to Montressor, but you get the sense that it may not have warranted Montressor’s crack-pot plan. But you never see Montressor struggle — do we see the Count struggle with the ramifications of his actions? I think we finally do in the end, but he goes pretty far…

Mo Simpson

Revenge. We all rationally want to believe it is best to leave the past behind, but oh how sweet it is to see it carried out brilliantly in books and on film. Here we even get to relish the idea that the Count doesn’t ultimately take down his prey directly, but allows them to take themselves down with their own flaws and weaknesses. We don’t have to feel so awful about the outcome. Since I too finished yesterday to allow some breathing room to prepare for the next reads, I’ll leave it there for now. Yippee-ki-yay…

mariah schneider

I really love this book. I was a bit behind since it's not the only thing I'm reading, but I'm excited that I caught up. I think that being able to read a well constructed plot of revenge is popular because it's preferable to watching actual violence or carrying out a violent revenge. A story like this can give us the satisfaction of revenge without actually acting it out, and we all have a shadow self. I enjoy the meticulous care of the Count's revenge plan, though I wonder what his original plan of revenge for Fernand was. I don't think we ever fully let go of the past, but how we choose to address things can be in a productive manner. Plotting revenge probably isn't the healthiest way to deal with the past, but we have to do something in order to move forward.

Tim Trippel

Revenge: You mention several Shakespeare works, but when I think of revenge and Shakespeare I can't help but think of Titus Andronicus. I know objectively it's not one of his better works, but for me it is guilty pleasure and is such a strong vengeance narrative. Personally, I like the way Edmund seems to get revenge. It was mentioned in an early lecture thread. He simply gives his enemies enough rope and they become participants in their own downfall. Edmond gives each of them something of chance at repentance before the final fall.

Jennifer S

I’m not a happy camper and this may be a very unpopular opinion. Fact is, I can barely drag myself to finish reading COMC. Dumas has weakened the story by 1) dragging it out to two years of serializations; and 2) by not allowing the reader inside Dantes/Sinbad/The Count. Dilution could be a result of committee writing despite that Dumas may have had only one other person at times on that committee. This dilution by committee-writing is what has become quite acceptable to us in tv, film, episodic series writing. We blindly praise it. And who knows what watery demon will exist in AI generated fiction. (Lost is an example of an episodic series ending its story confusingly with multiple writers). Money-driven writing, prolonged over-extended serialization, is like changing an art into a punching bag; forcing and debasing honest storytelling. Ask any good songwriter, honesty gets you to the truth. Dumas fights for the light of truth which for him is a mere twinkle because he sold out. To think if he had wrapped this up in eight months instead of 24, what greater power in his words and ideas and opinions!

Vicky

Interesting, I wonder if my kids would like the illustrated kids version. I enjoyed the story well enough but the plot became overly complex in my view and I must admit although I did finish I felt I stopped caring about fully following all his machinations when it came to the revenge! I loved the concept and I liked the first part the rest less so but it felt an achievement to have read it!

J. Brent Williamson

I just finished this one. I truly loved it - but I'm not commenting on the content, rather the translation. I like to listen to an audio book while I read. It keeps me from going too quickly. If the plot or action speeds up I have a tendency to start skimming forward and not reading all of the language. With foreign language books (English speaker here), that often means you cannot find the same translation to both listen and read. This is my first year in the book club (loving it btw). When I first encountered this with War and Peace I was very upset. I found it very difficult to read along. However, eventually I reached a point where I was listening to the prose and interpreting it as I read. Now that I have gone through W&P, The Brothers Karamazov, and finally The Count of Monte Cristo, I have started to have thoughts about the relative merits and decisions of the translators. Whereas before I was just struggling to follow along. My audio version of COMC is the "anonymous" translation; my physical version is the Robin Buss. In the beginning of the novel, I very much preferred the audio translation, but toward the end, I was ultimately tilted toward the Buss translation. Both are truly great in their own ways. The thing I came here to discuss though, is why the translations differ dramatically over things that would seem very specific. For example, any time a number is mentioned (Say the date or an amount of money), the translations inevitably differed on the number or amount. Also, the years seem all mixed up. Sometimes one translation will say 25 years and another 24. I'd be curious if anyone else has noticed this and can explain it. It may simply be that I don't speak French.

Tatiana
>>116426586

I started an MC translation that was a hot mess, whole paragraphs missing, whole new ones made up, and some sentences that the translator didn't understand were translated as gobbledegook. The Robin Buss is the best. But I went ahead and read it in French, which if you can, is much the best experience. For all French literature. Not a hard language to learn.

Mo Simpson

I’m losing my mind! I’m sure I read a comment here about The Cask of Amontillado and was prompted to pull my yellowed Poe off the shelf for a reread of a favorite. Now I can’t find the comment. Thank you! And, yes, it was very pertinent. ‘The thousand injuries of Fortunato I had borne as best I could; but when he ventured upon insult, I vowed revenge.’ Edmund suffered far more than insult- though still a thought provoking idea.

Glamaris Cohen

Absolutely loved this lecture!!! I read Count of Monte Cristo last summer so I didn’t re-read but I’ve been listening to the lectures and avidly devouring the story vicariously through the HLBC. One of my favorite stories has come back to life a short year later. Thanks, Ben!!!

mariah schneider
>>116472054

It's up above, I promise. Jen Clair's post right above your last one has the comment about the Cask of Amontillado. I might pull my own yellowed copy of Poe's complete works off my shelf as we go into the fall season.

Mo Simpson
>>116286312

You prompted me to revisit The Cask of Amontillado. Any opportunity to revisit Poe I will take. Perfect side dish. Thanks!

Mike

I loved the lecture, and it started me thinking about revenge movies. The first one that popped into my head was “Carrie,” starring Sissy Spacek. Great movie. The other was “Hang Em’ High” with Clint Eastwood. “Gladiator” is also a good revenge flick. We all have a sense of justice or right or wrong embedded in our DNA. We love it when a baddie realizes that the evil deed he thought he had gotten away with is suddenly staring him back in the face. My favorite line in Hang Em’High is when Eastwood finds a member of the vigilante mob in a saloon who hanged him (unsuccessfully, as it turns out) for a crime he didn’t commit. He pulls back his bandana to reveal the rope scars on his neck and says to the unsuspecting man, “When you hang a man, you better make sure he’s dead.” There are a few similar moments in TCMC, like when the Count reveals himself to Mondago. My minority opinion is that Dumas dragged this story out too long, and maybe in the serialized format that was just fine. For me, the plot lines were sometimes too elaborate, there were too many meandering subplots and strange coincidences. Dumas’s wordy writing style didn't help. It’s a fine story that moved briskly initially but it seemed to get bogged down in the latter portions of the book. I found myself skimming to the end to get to the juicy parts.

Phil

I get the impression that duels were the go-to method of dispute resolution in the 19th century. I recall the duel scene in The Brothers Karamazov when a young soldier named Zosima apologizes to his opponent and stops the duel but not before enduring the first shot from his opponent and surviving. Both duelers survive and reconcile with honor intact. How many people today are still so willingly risk and even sacrifice their lives for mere “honor” I wonder.

Elizabeth Madden
>>116522911

I think that that can be a problem with serialized stories, not only literary but also in terms of television series and films. I don't know whether Dumas was given a word count or a number of pages he had to fill with each Episode of his story, but I can easily imagine that, if he did, it might well have caused him to deliberately 'bag out' the tale with multiple side-avenues. Maybe he needed a strict Editor with a very powerful red editing pen.

Borys Yakovlev

I think we find revenge stories are so thrilling specifically because we do not exact revenge ourselves. We try and make efforts to forgive and forget, but some of the situations we keep turning in our heads. We roast them from all sides like a barbecue pig long after they lost the last resemblance of being alive and real. They turn into an lump inside of us that we don't usually remember about. When it's mentioned on the news or by friends, it re-emerges, and we would take a thin slice and taste it or maybe let others taste a small bit of it. People around us would find this piece appalling, but some won't, as it would closely match a one they carry themselves. The revenge stories go further allowing us sit and taste on this lump endlessly until, hopefully, letting it go. Seeing the Count destroying Fernand's life feels a better remedy than merely saying a sharp phrase to our father for something they said or did years ago.

Eluisa Brunetto

I think revenge stories are very popular because it’s probably cathartic to see people who have wronged others held accountable and because as another reader correctly pointed out, we don’t exact revenge ourselves and there is a sense of satisfaction to read a story in which someone else does what we cannot bring ourselves to do. We wish life would be fair and eventually bring the downfall of those who have caused unnecessary pain on others. But revenge of course is a tricky thing because you never know where it can lead. I found Bertuccio’s story particularly telling. His vendetta against Villefort brings catastrophic consequences. Bertuccio states that his desire to live was partly due to “that innate vanity which makes us want to remain whole and victorious after a vendetta.” I found this statement significant. Bertuccio’s vendetta indirectly led to the burden of having to deal with Benedetto and to the tragic death of his sister-in-law. His story seems to me a potential warning about the danger of vendettas and a potential foreshadowing of how things might turn out for the Count. A vendetta doesn’t give you back what you have lost and might lead to even further losses, including perhaps the burden of guilt on your conscience for some unintended consequence. It's perfectly human to want to seek revenge when one has suffered an injustice, especially if the perpetrator acted intentionally. It isn’t easy to simply forget that kind of injury; nonetheless, one needs to find a more helpful way to cope and to heal from the past by dedicating one’s energy to one’s own personal growth and success. Edmund found a treasure that had him set for life in addition to all the wisdom and knowledge that Faria imparted on him. He could have used both of these treasures as his personal reward for all that he had unjustly suffered and pursued a life of success and wealth, leaving those who had hurt him behind because they ultimately don’t matter anymore. He could have pursued happiness and meaning through positive means alone. We would have had a very different story, of course, but that could have been a course of action, for example, one in which he preserved his goodness and his integrity. That type of story is just as satisfying, one in which the victim rises above his suffering leaving his character completely unscathed.

Gem Esprey

There was so much to take in in this section and I have loved how the threads of the various narratives are now coming together. But, oh how happy I felt when his name - Edmond - was finally said! I have been desperate to see if there was any of his old self remaining, so I was thrilled that it was Mercedes who unlocked it. I felt so much for Albert and very relieved that the duel did not take place. I have so enjoyed the relationship between Morrel and the Count as well where we see little glimpses of Edmond rather than the Count. Yet, I feel so sad that Edmond not only lost 14 years of his life to these villains but then an additional decade to plotting their downfall when he could have had a good life instead. I can't help but question that once they are gone, will he feel it was worth it? Occasionally I have felt impatient that the story is moving so slowly then other times I become so absorbed that I forget I am reading a book as I am transported. I want to find out what happens and yet I don't want it to end. Thank goodness for re-reading!

Aaron Kyereh-Mireku

Caderousse is a bastard who got what was coming to him. No tears being shed here. However, I was touched by the scene where Mercedes intercedes to beg for her son's life. It's a moment where Dantes, embittered by his sufferings, rediscovers his humanity and realises the pitfalls of the revenge that he has decided to undertake. It reminds me of Raskolnikov - the mismatch between the desire to act and the weight of conscience. I was relieved that Albert came to see the truth and that his friendship with Dantes was not destroyed forever, and just as pleased to see Fernand's downfall. Even though I ultimately side with Edmond, I can absolutely understand Albert's feelings when the truth about his father is exposed. It would be hard for any son to deal with. I do admire Albert's martial vigour, even if it leads him to reckless actions. I cannot help but notice the contrast between the courage of the son and the low, cowardly, intriguing nature of his father, and of so many of the other characters, like Debray, for example. 1) Why are revenge stories so popular? Because everyone loves to fantasise about destroying those who have hurt them. 2) How can we let go of the past? Should we? I don't think we can fully let go of the past but we can learn to contextualise it and see it as in some ways necessary for the making of who we are. This attitude is what Nietzsche called amor fati. I think this contextualisation helps one to control one's resentment towards those who have harmed us. 3) What do you make of how the revenge is carried out? I cannot help but admire Dantes for how convoluted and yet precise his revenge is. The sort of revenge which is perhaps implausible in real life but makes for a brilliant story. One of my favourite parts of the book is where Dantes manipulates the telegraph to promote fake news about Spanish politics that causes Danglars to lose money. Absolutely priceless.

Tatiana
>>117106646

I always love your posts, Aaron. Can't wait for Gravity's Rainbow.

Rainier traveler

I am late on this but i am sad that only one lecture remains this is my first read with the book club and its sad that its over what a journey. The story will live on in my heart for as long as i am running around this earth. I have carried this book with me everywhere since July work, gym, nature its become something I never leave home with what a special journey. On to the next reads!

Karen

I have fallen way behind as I had a three week vacation in July and couldn't take such a brick of a book with me. I just finished this section today and listened to the lecture tonight. Chances are no one will see my comment to reply but I have to say - something no one seemed to touch on here - I was a bit creeped out by the sudden change in the Count's feelings toward Haydee. It would appear he is experiencing a bit of a sexual awakening for a girl he has always treated as a daughter. Gives me a bit of a shudder!

Alex Gonzales

I really appreciate you recommending the edition for children! I’d love my kids to read alongside me.

Josh Halliwell

There is too much to talk about in this last section! This is my first book as part of the Patreon, writing around the work is helping me think more deeply around it, and am sure I will remember it better also. This is the first section where I’ve really struggled to put the book down, with a lot of loose ends being tied together beautifully. I was confused about the Benedetto and Carderousse situation at first, but loved the resolution of it. I wonder if the count knew that the first diamond wouldn’t satisfy him, and his greed would further make him suffer through committing sin. The first big reveal that he was Endmond to one of the guilty parties was extremely satisfying - “‘One!’ The count said”. Noitier is also a great character, and the relationship between him and his granddaughter Valentine really made me route for her and Maximilian, whilst making me dislike Villefort even more, as he paints the grandfather as a useless invalid to prevent him from interfering. Noitier is in his own prison of sorts, barely being able to communicate whilst still having a sharp mind, but still manages to be a powerful force in interring with the arranged marriage. The Fernand plot is really where I was hooked in. There was some dramatic irony when Albert found out about the newspaper, and wanted to see the count as he ‘Doesn’t ask questions’, well that is because he is orchestrating the whole thing. Mercedes visiting Edmond is a powerful chapter, we finally see him able to let go of his revenge after her request. I felt somewhat annoyed that she easily accepted him taking his life for Albert’s, and was happy when it didn’t turn out that way. We also see he has quite an ego here, where he is loathe to let go of the character he has built himself up to be. I like the fact that Albert was somewhat spared in the end, whilst Fernand was truly punished. It reminds me somewhat of a Tarentinio movie, where the bad guy commit such heinous acts, the audience accept the brutal revenge which is imposed upon them. One of my favourite quotes: “For hearts which have long suffered, happiness is like dew on soil parched by the sun: both heart and earth absorb this beneficial rain as it falls on them, and nothing appears on the surface”

DT

Ben, this is amazing!! I love the opening and how mysterious you made it. Goosebumps 😁

Susan Graham

“Is very strange. I have been in the revenge business so long, now that it's over, I don't know what to do with the rest of my life,” Inigo Montoya The Count would make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts and part of me hopes he does ride off into the sunset with Princess Butter… I mean Mercedes. I believe that is how a few movie versions play it but methinks that isn’t what will happen. I loved the scene between him and Mercedes. Very poignant. Albert’s brashness is so typical of a 20-something hothead who is filled with righteous anger. And we all long for revenge because it’s near impossible to wait for justice when evil prospers. We see it everywhere. Edmond’s true name is finally spoken and that forces him to connect back with his soul. In order to seek revenge one has to lose their heart, or cut it out, as Edmond bemoans. And he can’t do it. He has a soul. But Mercedes now gives him permission to keep his soul and seek revenge with God’s blessing. And that is the fantasy.

Jonathon Glover
>>116327323

I agree Tim. His revenge is still grounded in that he allows people a chance to interest. Even at the end with Caferousse he helped him get to the point of repentance, essentially saving his eternal soul.

Daisy

Love this part of the book! This is where it all starts happening and we are starting to get the payoffs. Bad things start happening to the count's enemies. Villefort is correct in his intuition that there is something suspicious with the count but cannot really pin him down. Danglars keeps thinking that the count is his friend in spite of all the gibes, maybe he is so blinded by the count's fortune. Fernand eventually finds out that Edmond has come back and admits defeat. While Caderousse denies fault even to the end. I found the scene between Caderousse and the count dressed as the abbe very funny. he tries to weasel himself out of the situation by talking then stabs him. Very interesting contrasting reactions between Fernand and Caderousse. I also loved the chapter where Mercedes visits Edmond. He has become a different person now and has gone on this path of revenge. He is unable to see any other alternatives, such as running away and create a new life with Mercedes. He is chasing something and is unable to appreciate what he has (money, Haydee, friends, etc.) I think revenge stories are entertaining because people want to see bad persons get what they deserve. It's all well if it turns out well but if the revenge ends badly / ends in tragedy then it might not be a great feeling for the readers at the end. Personally, I do love the intricate plot and trying to keep up with all the story lines. The more complicated the better! Looking forward to re reading the last chapters.

Craig Mckissick

I have been reading this over about 6 months and it’s been a mixed experience. The first third of the book was brilliant, couldn’t put it down. The middle third, I just became completely detached from the characters because I just found most of them so detestable. I’ve found this a lot with aristocratic characters that are involved with melodrama in general; I just find it pathetic, the stakes are so low, they are so privileged, I feel like I could jump in and do a better job myself as ridiculous as that sounds. Dumas pushes the boundaries of believability so far that it has been a learning experience in relatability for me, as in this final third I have come back round to enjoying the plot again. Dumas has so many tropes it would be so easy to spoof this, everything is just so bombastic, the endless literary references are just so incessantly sickening. Learning about his lifestyle and even with the allusions in the book I have no doubt he was probably on something while writing most of this. There is no doubt that this is an incredible piece of work but personally there is so many things I find outrageously stupid that I have had to learn to put aside to enjoy this. Take Homer for example, so many things are ridiculous, supernatural, unbelievable, but he uses these devices tastefully, timed well throughout the narrative to have the desired effect on the participant. Taking the principles of Aristotles sweet spot in the Ethics, for me Dumas is just too often on the boundaries or outwith these sweet spots, that it lead me to not reading the book for prolonged periods. I have however went full circle with some aspects by just laughing at the ludicrousness of the situations. I mean, how many people would you allow to die in your house of poisoning before you done something about it? The Counts endless disguises, I mean how has no one recognised him except one character? Surely after killing off a character and putting a disguise back on, the cracks would start showing through? The rise of these villains to high society is comical at best. The immersion is just too often broken by glaring outrageousness. Nonetheless, it’s an entertaining story obviously or it wouldn’t be met with such success and classic status, I shall read on.

Craig Mckissick
>>173677646

Great observations Daisy. I like that you see the Counts fixation on revenge has lead to a lack of awareness of how great things are for him. Often people with this kind of drive do great things and use their fixation to their advantage, but at what cost? People who achieve amazing things need that lack of awareness to get there in the first place, and when they achieve their goals, they want more and are never satisfied. While others look on in awe, aspiring to have such greatness without seeing the sacrifices made in the process and the mental fragility of these individuals. The line between madness and genius is extremely thin. This lowers the Count somewhat to the villains level morally as much as we love the revenge plot. I am definitely interested to see how things resolve.