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The Last of Us (S2:E7) - Full Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2025-05-31 08:29:52
Edited:
2026-08-19 20:09:19
Imported:
2026-06
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This show has no mercy! What an ending to this season. I can’t wait…. really I can’t wait for season 3, talk me out of looking up spoilers haha.

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The Last of Us (S2:E7) - Full Reaction - Popcorn In Bed

Watch the full reaction to The Last of Us (S2:E7) - Full Reaction on Popcorn In Bed.

Comments

Gary Brown

Cassie, ur gonna have a long wait. Season 3 won't come until 2027 if they don't cancel it first. I stopped watching after episode 2,

Clarence Newman

So that’s all our favourite characters wasted. If they do a Season 3, from the point of view of Abbie, they’ll need to change the title to The Last of Them.

WestBound

Yes there will be and there's so much story left they might do season 4

WestBound

Cassie I recommend watching LOU2 game cutscenes just to compare . The game has the same cliffhanger point so you can stop there . Ely so much more likeable

KyloJames

That was a fun watch-along!! RIP Jesse but the next season is going to be INSANE— Abby’s side of things have the best set pieces. Ellie is spiraling down a dark path…you might end up liking Abby more 👀 we shall see! Agreed on the cliffhanger…not cool 😭 Thanks for the fun season, Cassie 🫶🫶

Alex Anderson

No, there's talks of it possibly being cancelled. Viewership went down 55 PERCENT from the Season 1 finale. Rotten Tomatoes audience score of 37%. You don't have to continue liking the show because the media told you to. The show is a flop.

AdrianF

As is Jesse.

AdrianF

RT audience score is full of people that can't get over J being dead and E being gay. There's no way they'll cancel season 3... or 4. They'd have done research as to expected numbers and knew the story (and reactions to it) before they greenlit it.

AdrianF

Why are you commenting here if you're not watching it? People die, get over it and move on.

AdrianF

Refreshing to hear you defend your POV, Cassie. Thanks for sticking with the season.

AdrianF

I'm pretty much Team Abby, but I think it's going to be hard for Cassie to pick her over any other character. We shall see! I got chills at the end of this episode with the SD1 caption.

Gary Brown

That's very rude, I can express my opinion and tell her my thoughts. It's supposed to be a kind community for all. Yes, people die, but if u watch YouTube alot, then u have seen videos where because of that one act, they're hemorrhaging viewers and have a 39% rotten tomatoes score. Again, obviously u can respond to me , but there are nicer ways to say things. Please just bring good vibes. People get attached to characters. That'll never change. Have a good day

Alex Anderson

No, if you look at the audience reviews people have plenty of other reasons to dislike the show. Bella Ramsey as Ellie is completely unbearable. I also found the show boring at times and Season 1 hardly had an zombies despite it being a zombie apocalypse story. Didn't watch season 2 but have been following what's happening on Youtube. Looks really cringe. Most overhyped mediocre show of all time. Whatever they thought the "expected numbers" were gonna be the show underperformed if you look at the actual ratings. Viewership went way down like I said.

Eric

Ratings were down for the finale because it released on memorial day. And RT audience score has been completely brigaded by gamer gate incels mad they can't j/off to a 14 year old because she looks "ugly".

AdrianF

If you're not watching it Alex, why are you here? HBO knew the reaction to Ellie before they started filming season 2. As Eric says below you, maybe you're one of those...

Alex Anderson

Completely disingenous and ridiculous that you'd say stuff like that. Like I said look at the actual audience reviews on RT it's not just "incel gamers" who don't like the show it's the normies as well who experieced the story for the first time through the show. The show is just bad and I don't understand why people continue to shill and hype the show. HBO did the same with House of the Dragon, bad show but HBO tries to sell it as the best thing since sliced bread. Without that fake hype there'd be no viewers. You yourself tell Cassie to watch the game because Jesse and Ellie are more likeable in it. Lol. So you admit they are unlikeable but continue to watch the show. Why?

Grégory Gautier

I stopped at episode three, I won't be watching this show again, there's nothing that interests me.

Rod Reavern

I appreciate Cassie powering through the rest of Season 2 and her objective perspective as a non-gamer and fan of Joel. However, regarding this episode, it was the most unsatisfying season finale I've ever seen! Compared to the first season's finale... there is NO comparison. This one was totally bereft of emotion and genuine drama. That goes for most of Season 2. Aside from Joel's death and the Joel & Ellie porch confession, can ANYONE honestly claim that there were moments in Season 2 as emotional as the following from Season 1? 1) The heartbreaking death of Joel's daughter; 2) Tess's self-sacrifice; 3) Bill and Frank's love story and bittersweet ending; 4) The tragic deaths of Henry and Sam; 5) Joel's tearful admission to Tommy; 6) Ellie's reaction to Joel's decision for Tommy to take her to Colorado; 7) Ellie crying when she thought Joel was dying; 8) Ellie and Riley's tragic mall escapade; 9) Ellie taking out the cannibal leader and her reunion with Joel ("I've got you, baby girl") 10) Joel saving Ellie from the Fireflies and his heartbreaking decision to lie to her about it. WHAT in Season 2 compares to any of those tear-inducing moments? Back to this episode, the reason it was so unsatisfying was it was NOT a season finale; this should've been a mid-season finale, because there should've been a second half to Season 2. But it would not have worked as a mid-season cliffhanger either, because after a glorified cameo in the premiere and being the antagonist in Episode 2, Abby disappeared for 5 episodes and only showed up in the last 3 minutes without any explanation for how she got there. That is NOT what you do with the antagonist! What would Die Hard have been like if Hans Gruber had shown up, made his speech, killed Takagi, then DISAPPEARED for most of the movie, NEVER communicated with John on the radio or met him upstairs, and finally reappeared holding Holly hostage at the end? I KNOW what the sycophantic Neil Druckman apologists will say: "Abby is NOT the villain. She's the heroine of her own story." You get ZERO POINTS for parroting Druckman's BS. As for the events of this episode, technically, things happened... but it felt like very little was accomplished in terms of plot, narrative, and character development. Ellie basically reached the aquarium and checked two more names off her kill list, then returned to base, having obtained no new information about Abby's whereabouts, which was a mission failure in my book. Along the way, Ellie had multiple melodramatic arguments with Jesse and demonstrated herself to be a terrible, selfish person, failing to have her friends' backs when she chose not to help Tommy and instead went after Abby. No ticking clock forced Ellie to choose between helping Tommy and going to the aquarium. Ellie should've gone with Jesse to help Tommy, then they all could've gone to the aquarium together, because that's what happened anyway! And Ellie cemented her status as a selfish PoS when she screamed, "F**k the community!" Ellie is a terrible protagonist! If that wasn't bad enough, TLOU's "Men=Bad, Women=Good" agenda and sexist double standards were proudly on full display in this episode with Ellie's arguments with Jesse, and most of all, the way it changed Ellie's confrontation with Owen and Mel to absolve Ellie of any guilt for killing a pregnant woman. Because it was Owen who "forced" Ellie's hand by going for his gun. Ellie justifiably shot him, but inadvertently grazed Mel in the throat, so killing her was an accident. WHY? Because the writers cannot portray the show's FEMALE protagonist deliberately harming a pregnant woman. Instead, the MAN had to provoke Ellie to shoot and kill him (because he "deserved" to die for the crime of being MALE), and the man's action resulted in the tragic fatal wounding of the pregnant woman -- the ONLY real victim in the scenario. Adding insult to injury, the instant Ellie saw that the woman was wounded, and realized she was pregnant, she instantly switched from Revenge Mode to Crying Mode, inexplicably wanting to help her former enemy. In the game, Owen made his move to DEFEND Mel while Ellie was pointing a gun at her; Ellie shot him, then MEL attacked Ellie with a knife, nearly stabbing her in a quick-time event; if the player mashed the button hard enough, she reversed it and stabbed Mel in the neck. Self-defence versus a tragic accident; it's a total cop out for killing a pregnant woman. And just like that, Tommy and Jesse showed up, got Ellie out of there -- despite there not being any imminent danger -- they returned to base, and apparently Ellie's revenge quest was over because they decided to return to Jackson. Ellie just shrugged and accepted their decision, which was totally consistent as it's well-established that Ellie respects others' opinions and obeys what she's told. WHO is this show -- specifically this season -- written for? Because the show treats the audience like IDIOTS who can't remember any of the characters' motivations. Avenging the murder of someone you loved is NOT a switch that can be flipped off and on. No one would make the 900-mile, month-long perilous journey across the post-Collapse Pacific Northwest, crawling with Infected and Raiders, successfully kill 3 of the 5 targets, but NOT the primary objective: Abby -- then just give up and go home. That is not how real people or well-written characters behave. Equally nonsensical was Abby's pointless detour to Scar Island. I don't recall that happening in the game. In the episode, it was a waste of time and demonstrated Ellie's uncanny PLOT ARMOUR! The Scar-in-charge, a woman of course, was about to give the order to kill Ellie, but heard gunshots from the Wolves' attack, so she decided to just let Ellie go... because stabbing her or slitting her throat would've taken too long? WHY not have the Wolves suddenly ambush those Scars, gun them all down, miss Ellie (on purpose or coincidentally, doesn't matter), and let her escape!? The show is so contrived and insulting to its audience! The ending might've seemed shocking to anyone who hasn't played the game, but I still think it's an inherently unsatisfying cliffhanger. It doesn't work as either a season finale or even a mid-season finale. It would be acceptable as this episode's cliffhanger IF the second half of Season 2 continued this Sunday, because it would have been a smooth transition to the POV switch to Abby. But for inexplicable reasons, HBO and/or the TLOU showrunners decided to split the season into two (or three) parts, to milk the series for as long as possible, but they didn't even film them concurrently. Despite TLOU Season 1 being a huge success and critically acclaimed, they supposedly couldn't get a 14-episode season order? They could and should have, because there was no overlap between Ellie and Dina's adventure and Abby's, until she showed up at the end. WHY couldn't they have filmed Abby's part in the same Season 2 production!? They could have gotten Ellie's 7 episodes in the can, sent them to post-production, and then continued filming Abby's episodes. Season 2 would've had the same premiere date, and Abby's episodes could've been in post right now, and the second half of Season 2 could've been released this Fall or Q1 2026 at the latest. I hate HBO and/or the showrunners for doing it this way. It reeks of GREED and HUBRIS. Considering Season 2's drop in ratings, the HATED Abby character being the POV character for most of Season 3, and that HBO will probably make us wait another 2 years, my prediction is that Season 3's ratings will be significantly worse — less than half. I won't blame Cassie if she doesn't even bother watching Season 3 because I doubt I will watch it either.

Alex Anderson

Careful, people will accuse you of being an "incel gamer" and worse for criticizing the show.

Rod Reavern

@Beth Brown: Out of curiosity, WHO did you reply to, because I don't see another poster's reply to your original comment. I suspect whoever it is blocked me because of my past negative opinions about TLOU Season 2 -- because that's how mature, rational people behave: "I don't like your opinion so... SMOKEBOMB!" They disappear. 🙄

Alex Anderson

Adrian F. He's giving me a hard time too because I dislike the show.

Rod Reavern

@Alex Anderson: The type of people who accuse others of being "incel gamers" and try to dismiss their opinions for that mischaracterization are HYPOCRITES, because in doing so, they've exposed their own disgraceful prejudice, intolerance, and bigotry.

LittleGalaxyBoy

I haven’t seen the season yet, but my mom came into my room in the middle of the night, panicking and telling me to follow her. So I got up and followed her into the living room. She pointed at the screen and said, “Look!” then rewound the final scene and asked, “Did she shoot Ellie?!” I just said, "Ohhhhhhh. Well. You'll have to wait and see." She immediately started searching for when the next season comes out, only for myself to break the news that she'll most likely have to wait until 2027. Then she went around the house for a good few minutes, saying to herself, "2027... Have to wait until 2027."

Ib-René Jørgensen

Ended exactly as i thought it would, with a major Cliffhanger, that we proporaly wont se the outcome of until the end of season 3. Season 3 is Abby's journey. I hope they include The Rat King.

Gary Brown

Sorry about that. I was replying to Adrian. Or so I thought. I'd assume that it was that guy who blocked you because he just seemed mean enough. So I hope ur day gets better. Other than this, I've had no trouble in the Popcorn community.

KyloJames

Same! I thought that was a clever way to end the season. I was worried how’d they setup everything since it’s so complicated in the game. Think they did a pretty good job, but S3 Abby might hit better with those still on the fence. I hope. She’s my favorite character of the franchise

Clay F

The first half of your post is persuasive to me. That's a great list of moving events in S1. I like S1 better than S2 primarily for 2 reasons: (a) I miss Joel in S2E3-E5 and S2E7 and (b) Ellie is annoying and stupid in S2. Yet, I am still processing what I think about S2. I really like the S2 production quality, e.g., S2E2 = one of the best in TV history. I am glad I watched S2. I think I will start S3 for production quality and b/c been told over and over how great an actress Kaitlyn Dever. I know nothing of the game and completely ignore comments about the game in construing the TV show. I look at what is depicted in the show to evaluate the show -- stick to within the 4 corners of the show. The TV show reality is different than the game reality.

Clay F

As for production quality, S2E2 was one of the best episodes in TV history. Truly impressive.

Alex Gorell

This show has made me appreciate the game a lot more. I’m Glad this is over.

Just Plain Bob

Sadly, there are some toxic posts from people that lose their cool when someone dislikes something they love. In this thread alone, there have been accusations of trans-phobia, misogyny, etc, because some people had the temerity to dislike the show. On the flip side, when “American Psycho” won a poll, some people that disliked the movie called those that voted for it monsters and sadists and strongly implied that they were mentally ill. They even attacked one of her moderators (and her friend) as trying to cause Cassie mental harm by supporting the reaction to the movie. When I had the gall to say that I didn’t like the Amazon Studios production “Rings of Power”, I was called a racist. In NONE of the posts (including mine) that garnered such a reaction was gender, race or sexual orientation even mentioned. (My objections, for example, had to do with the departure of the series from the source material.) Every Halloween, a self appointed group of “white knights” invariably attack anyone that supports reacting to horror movies they don’t like. They accuse horror film buffs of trying to harm Cassie and being mentally aberrant. (Note: Not all white knights engage in this behavior but those that do are VERY vocal.) Sadly, it’s become increasingly difficult to express an opinion without being on the receiving end of the most horrific accusations. I really wish that Cassie and the mods would put an end to it. People on both sides of each disagreement seem to forget that it’s possible to disagree (even strenuously) without insulting one another.

Chris Thom

Isn't it following the game really closely?

Uncle Phoenix

Does anyone know if Cassie has seen “Moneyball” (2011)?

Cole Jennett

To say House of the Dragon and The Last of Us are just bad is just ridiculous. That’s a you problem.

Just Plain Bob

She has. There’s been talk of a possible re-watch with Carly.

Uncle Phoenix

Thanks and I hope we get a rewatch.

Clay F

Me too. Cassie said she doesn't remember Moneyball.

Clay F

Wow, what a cliffhanger. Even though Ellie is stupid at times in S2, I like S2. I am glad I watched S2. The S2 production quality is excellent, e.g. S2E2 (IMDb 9.2) is one of best TV episodes in history in that respect. I wouldn’t put too much weight on the RT Audience score (37% = 3/8) because the sampling size is tiny, and viewers filled with hate for S2 are more vocal than viewers finding S2 acceptable or good. Really it’s the sample size -- just too small to give a reliable indication. IMDb 7.4, RT 93%, RT Audience 37% (5,000+ ratings) – Last of US S2 IMDb 6.5, RT 59%, RT Audience 49% (50,000+ ratings) – Sum of All Fears (2002) IMDb 6.5, RT 28%, RT Audience 61% (100,000+ ratings) – Double Jeopardy (1999) IMDb 5.4, RT 39%, RT Audience 33% (250,000+ ratings) – Batman Forever (1995) IMDb 3.8, RT 11%, RT Audience 16% (250,000+ ratings) – Batman & Robin (1997) I will watch S3 because I am curious and like the series production quality, and been told over and over that Kaitlyn Dever is an excellent actress.

Canadianant

I liked it. Big swings.. HBO really messed up with not having shot seasons two and three together. I'm up to see where the story goes but they really needed to have the next season ready for this fall or early next year. 2 years is crazy. To me the same thing happened to both cobra Kai and stranger things . With the length of time between seasons it just is tough to keep interested .

TechJJ

If show follows game story, then Abby's arc will be much more compelling. Some rigid gamers will critize selection of Kaitlyn Dever over lacking physical attributes evident in the game but that's another story. Ellie is not dumb, just very impulsive. She can take actions when Dina freezes (tunnel run) but not as experienced as Jesse. Show just made Ellie more annoying with her "loudness" but I think that's what Bella Ramsey is good at with her style dating back to GoT.

TechJJ

Wow! Talking about a rant! Better do it here than those that engage in death threats when the game is first released! I too fully agree your feel for the first Season / first game story. It's emotional along the way. Story of second game (S2/S3) is different. The appreciation for the story (as a masterpiece in its own way) starts with a sequence of flashbacks from Abby POV presumably in S3E1 and all the way to the end of the game story. The rest of criticisms apply to the game story as well, with the exception of the change in killing Own/Mel at the aquarium. So its obvious to me that you never played the second game or never played to completion, and you just watched few cutscenes. Why you think this show / story is promoting "men=bad, women=good" agenda? it's really two women story. It should be which of Ellie or Abby is good or bad discussion.

TechJJ

@Chris Thom Yes the show story follows game story closely, but there are scene shuffles and early reveals that change the feel and shock value. The show audience is not going to get the same compelling shocker and "holy f**k me" moments that we got mid-way through the game. The early reveals are 1) Abby targeting Joel, 2) Abby's group are Fireflies, 3) Abby's revenge is for her father, and 4) her father is the surgeon. #1 traded off mystery vs. anticipation to the moment Abby lured Joel into the cabin. No big deal there. But #2 and #3 are big deal. They weren't revealed until Abby's arc, so if show follow the reveal sequence of the game, then viewers wouldn't even know why Abby targets Joel, nor her father is the doctor until (beginning of ) S3. Many of us sympathize with show writers because of the insane hatred and death threats against Laura Bailey (Abby's MoCap and voice actor) and Jocelyn Mettler (Abby's face model) that caused a lot of personal suffering. Laura Bailey had a toddler and was seriously scared and the NaughtyDog family were trying to protect her. By having the upfront reveals in the show, there are sympathy going toward Abby almost immediately. At least reducing some heat and enough to not hear any serious death threats, but still hating on Abby which is perfect. Even Pedro Pascal stepped up by having bunch of pictures posted hugging Kaitlyn after Joel's death. My understanding is that Kaityln Dever was given special protection doing the filming.

TechJJ

I agree. I thought S2/S3 can be shot together if budget allows. The overlapping 3 day stories will share some same locations. However, there will be some big $$$ spending in S3 for places not shown in S2. The problem with this show is too much gone into mimicking exactly to the game and I bet those took majority of the budget. One such example is the dinosaur and the museum.

TechJJ

That's unfortunate. It's true the story of second game is a slow burn after Joel's shock, but it's a masterpiece in itself but some gamers to start saying "masterpiece" at equivalent of beginning of S3 and large number will clap their hands in awe at the end of the story. Don't get ruined by spoilers if you are open-minded enough that some day you might want to resume and experience it for yourself.

K, Zachary

Ok so they gave you a clue on how they are going to start the 3rd season. With the very end of the episode. They are following the game somewhat closely. I can't give any hints but my gf started playing the game part 2. I saw where she was at this morning. She did it to find out what happens. Absolutely no spoilers. This game/show is like a dang rollercoaster . Ok thumbs up from my gf so I promised that I wouldn't talk about my channel on here. However the vlog I shot over a week ago and on Tuesday just went public. It's not about me basically I read from the book Restless Souls which is how Sharon Tate's family dealt with her murder. The two parts I read one a eulogy from Sharon 's funeral and second a chance encounter that one of her sisters has with Steve McQueen. Which made me cry. Special intro by Quentin Tarantino. I shot the reading part the same day we saw the new Mission Impossible. No links because this is Cassie's page not mine. If you want to learn about Sharon Tate you can find my YouTube channel. Nice job Cassie on the reaction. Ok It's When A Monster Calls time.

D. T. Nelson

Welcome to the 40% mark of the game. Unlike the game where you can keep going, you'll have to wait two years to continue the story. Mel's baby hit harder in the show. The game reveals she is pregnant at the beginning of the game (when Abby's crew comes to Jackson). The show waits to reveal it when Mel is already shot. The part where she asks Ellie to cut the baby out is also an addition not in the game. Other than Ellie ending up on the Scar's island, this episode was very close to the game. The ending sequence with Jesse's death (Sorry, Cassie, that was a bullet wound in his face. He's dead—but you now have two years to morn him) up to Abbie point the gun at Ellie and the blackout was nearly shot for shot straight from the game. Yeah. No mercy. Lot's of moments hit hard. Next season won't be any different. Tragic is a good description of this story. I've stated that game two's story is Shakespearian. Well, Shakespear wrote three kinds of stories. Histories, comedies, and tragedies. The Last of is is not a history, and it's definitely not a comedy, so...

D. T. Nelson

Yeah, that rating has nothing to do with the quality of the show. That is just people voting low because they are mad Pedro Pascal's character was killed off. It's the same reaction a lot of gamers had when they rage quit the game. Then when they went back and played the game all the way through they ended up loving it. I personally love what they are doing this season. It is much closer to the the second game than season 1 was to the first game (not that I had any problem with the changes that were made). I don't really see Ellie as being portrayed as stupid this season. She has her knowledge and skill set, and she knows what those are. And just like in the game she is so hyper focused on finding and killing Abby that she allows her emotions to overrule her common sense. Example- When Ellie and Dina first arrived and saw the TV station, Ellie immediately want to rush toward it. Dina made her pause and think, and Ellie realized that would be bad choice and came to the conclusion that it would be better to wait until dark and proceed on foot. Ellie doesn't have a lot of school smarts, but the show demonstrates that she is able to apply logic to situations—when she doesn't allow her emotional impulses to get in the way.

Cole Jennett

I don’t think anyone who has played the game should be confirming details the show hasn’t yet fully revealed. I think the show made it pretty unambiguous personally, but she asked for no spoilers, and confirming something she wasn’t fully aware of is a spoiler.

D. T. Nelson

I haven't confirmed anything that hasn't been made clear. If you are talking about Jesse's death, that shot of him with the bullet wound to his face made it very clear. There was nothing ambiguous about it. They clearly wanted you to know he was dead, and the suddenness of it was another Last of Us twist of the knife to the heart. Ambiguous would be Abbie pointing the gun at Ellie, the cut to black followed by the sound of a gunshot. The classic cliffhanger ending.

Cole Jennett

I’m taking it the same way as you did, but it seems Cassie isn’t. You even said “Sorry Cassie…” so you knew she was holding out hope.

D. T. Nelson

Yes, Cassie was forcing herself into a state of denial (just like she was—like most people were—with Joel), but it was was clear from her response she knew that Jesse died. She knows this show and what it does to characters, and it has been a few days since she watched this episode giving her time to process before it was posted. Maybe I'm wrong and she actually believed Jesse could still be alive (it did take her a minute before she realized Mel was pregnant and asking Ellie to cut her baby out). If I did spoil something for you, Cassie, I truly am sorry.

Cole Jennett

I agree with everything you are saying, and I’m probably being a little harsh by even pointing it out as a potential spoiler because I think it’s was unambiguous too. But…if you are truly sorry if you spoil things, you could just take all chance of it away by editing your post😉

Alex Gorell

Yes and no. They changed the characteristics of almost every single character, and made some big changes to the story that makes my brain go “huh?” Some of the changes I understand needed as it wouldn’t portray well in a TV show if they didn’t.

Rod Reavern

@Tech Citizen: You can try to dismiss what I've written as a "rant," but any objective person would acknowledge that my points are well-articulated, logical, and supported by examples from the game and show. I have played TLOU2, but admittedly, I didn't buy it because I refused to give Neil Druckman and his cronies any of my money. (Keep PHYSICAL media alive!) I don't understand your point about the Owen/Mel aquarium sequence because the gameplay before and after the cutscene and quicktime event sequences doesn't change what happened. The game forced the player to kill Owen and Mel, just like the game forced the player to kill the doctor at the end of the first game; there's no way to advance in the game without committing those acts, which you're expected to feel guilty about afterward. The vital difference was the portrayal of those acts. In the game, Ellie was defending herself and chose to use lethal force after disarming Mel. It was technically justified, but if Ellie had seen that Mel was pregnant, she probably wouldn't have gone for the neck; breaking her nose with the pommel of the knife would've taken the fight out of her. In the show, fatally wounding Mel was an accident after Owen provoked Ellie to shoot him by reaching for his gun. The biased, agenda-driven writers changed the scene to absolve Ellie of most of the guilt for the pregnant woman's death, shifting most of the blame to the actions of the MAN. The "Man=Bad, Woman=GOOD" agenda was built into the foundation of TLOU2 game and show. The entire story revolves around PUNISHING Joel, the male protagonist from the first game (and through him, the player), for his noble and well-intended actions of saving Ellie's life in TLOU. The subtext was that any of the humans Joel killed in the first game, their families had the right to seek revenge and kill him. It just happened to be Abby, a FEMALE and the daughter of the quack doctor who believed that immediately sacrificing a 14-year-old girl, the only immune person known to exist, was the only way to make a "cure" -- which realistically the Fireflies had no chance of mass producing and would've done nothing about the hordes of Infected, like the one that attacked Jackson. The game forced the player to play as Abby, Joel's murderer, and see events through her POV. Druckman and his cronies employed manipulation tactics, like depicting Abby and her father saving an injured zebra, and playing with the dog, to try to humanize Abby and justify her revenge against Joel. The apparent goal was to demonstrate there are two sides to every conflict and the actions of the supposed villain are justified in their mind, which means there aren't good guys and bad guys. But, the game depicted the Scars (Seraphites) as a cartoonishly evil, fanatical religious cult that cruelly oppressed and abused people who were different, like Lev. The unsubtle implication is that people can disagree about certain topics, like whether revenge is ever justified... but if you wrong a woman or harm a member of a protected group, like transgender people, YOU ARE EVIL AND MUST DIE! No exceptions, no mercy. Returning to the sequel's perspective shift, they made Ellie the playable protagonist and tasked her with hunting Abby down and avenging Joel's murder. TWO female protagonists, both seeking revenge for the death of a loved one, both justified in their own minds. However, NO ONE defended what Joel did, despite that being the most pivotal, dramatic, morally grey event in the original game, which had players debating whether it was right or wrong for years -- and there was no objectively correct answer. But Druckman threw out that ambiguity and declared: "NO, JOEL WAS WRONG! Abby was right to avenge her father's death. Joel deserved to die." If Abby was right to murder Joel, then logically, Ellie would be right to murder Abby, but... (no spoilers). There's an undeniable sexist double standard at the core of TLOU2. There are plenty of other examples, like in the first episode, wherein Kat was chosen to lead the patrol despite the fact that she let Ellie and Dina do whatever they wanted, she wanted to turn back at the first sign of trouble, and she didn't back them up properly -- while two men stood by and basically said and did nothing. Kat lacked any characteristics of a good leader... except being a woman, apparently. The contrast between the WLF characters Isaac and Hanrahan is a prime example: Isaac Dixon was a sergeant in FEDRA (the bad guys) who betrayed and murdered most of his squad when he defected to the WLF. He became the leader of the WLF and was depicted torturing a Scar prisoner. A MAN committed violence and evil acts. Whereas Hanrahan, the woman who led the group of civilians whom Isaac joined after he blew up his men in the vehicle, never worked or collaborated with the bad guys; she became a WLF Lieutenant, a leadership position, but was never depicted committing violence or evil acts. To further differentiate how the female characters handle difficult situations, when WLF Sergeant Elise Park (another woman in authority) made the controversial decision to seal WLF soldiers, including her own son, in the spore-ridden basement of the hospital, Hanaran met with her, heard her out, and supported her decision. The WOMEN are always depicted making the right choices, whereas the MEN are always depicted as being wrong, committing violence, and being "evil." The only way the show could've made the contrast more stark is if the one rookie WLF soldier, Burton, whom Isaac spared, had been a woman. The juxtaposition of a lone good female soldier amidst a squad of bad male soldiers would've exemplified the "Men=Bad, Women=GOOD" narrative agenda, but would've been too on-the-nose. Additionally, I believe the show cast a man in Burton's role because they later had the character stand outside the room, listening to Isaac torture the Scar, and not being bothered by it. It was to demonstrate that a MAN who was morally good and empathetic inevitably became immoral and complicit in evil acts comparable to what the FEDRA goons had laughed about doing. There are just too many examples of this phenomenon for it to be a coincidence, and denying it is akin to gaslighting. TLOU2 game and Season 2 both had an overt gender bias and a total lack of nuance because Druckman and the writers were open about it: They deliberately chose to kill off Joel to clear the path for Ellie to become the lead protagonist of the sequel, and brought Dina in as the escort character, to emulate the proven duo dynamic of the original game. They even doubled down by doing the same thing with Abby and Lev. I honestly wouldn't mind a lot of these things if they weren't so overtly biased and heavy-handed. For example, I was fine with Ellie being the primary playable character in TLOU2 and the lead protagonist. I just didn't think it was necessary to kill off Joel so early in the game and Season 2. And Abby might've been a compelling character IF she hadn't been modelled like the game devs grafted an ugly supposedly-female square face onto a male bodybuilder's body and defiantly insisted: "This is what a WOMAN looks like in the post-apocalyptic world we created. If you disagree, you're a misogynist and an incel, which means your opinion doesn't matter." That is the type of bizarro world intolerance and bigotry that TLOU2 pushes on its audience, and that's a major reason why both the sequel game and Season 2 were so controversial and less popular than the original, which was a masterpiece of narrative and game design.

Uncle Phoenix

I have often thought that Older siblings experience fear differently than Younger siblings. Older siblings seem to feel fear from horror movies; while younger siblings feel amused and invigorated by horror movies. That being said, my Illusion is that Cassie and Carly are middle siblings and are just a couple of great big scaredy cats. 😏

Uncle Phoenix

AND Rings of Power and Season 2 of TLOU are just not very interesting. All week long I’ve been thinking about the children/babies who died in these two seasons, from Sarah to the unborn baby that Ellie let die. And I can’t think of anything that connects them to the story, except death itself of course.

Michael West

This may be your best intro paragraph...:)

Clay F

Stating imo based on what I saw in the show (I know nothing of the game), it looked like Jesse is dead = not a spoiler. Stating that Jesse died in that scenario in the source material is somewhat of a spoiler. Just because of Cassie's denial, and currently not 100% confirmed in the show.

Cole Jennett

That’s really all I’m saying. It’s fine to speculate, but when you know because there is source material out there, that’s a little unfair to the viewer that doesn’t know the game. I’m one of them, though as I’ve said, I see it the same way.

Clay F

Maybe I should have said "stupid behavior." I think the word "stupid" or the phrase "stupid behavior" encompasses "impulsively taking dumb actions."

Cole Jennett

I had the Grover Sesame Street book growing up. That really brought back some memories.

Ando

"I do think people deserve second chances" You said that regarding Joel, but we're going to remember you said that when it comes to Abby next season. Abby is an absolute badass.

Gray

Getting fiesty in the comments perhaps we need the 2 years for it all to calm down lol, but I am also disappointed we are having to wait that long.

Mark Vaderr

Cassie.....Don't read spoilers.

Rod Reavern

@LittleGalaxyBoy: Why do you act like your aversion to reading is virtuous?

Brian McGovern

“They’re going to be okay” Famous last words.

Brett John Chase

Meh...good luck to those people who enjoyed the series, sincerely hope you continue getting a buzz from TLOU. I'm washing my hands of it.

shaneth138

I haven't played the game but every time I watch a scene from the show compared to the scene from the game, the show version is like a thousand times better to me. Also, when reactors talk about the changes the show made compared to the game, I can't imagine the story not having the changes the show made in them. Pedro and Bella are way more likable to me as well. I think people just prefer whichever version they have seen/played first. I for one am soooo glad that I am not missing out on how great this show is because of my preconceived expectations of what the show should be based on the source material. Same goes for movies that I love where people can't stop talking about how the book version is better.

WestBound

My man you gotta watch the whole thing not just certain scenes for comparison . Context is everything . Bella played Ely perfect in season 1. Season 2 I don't blame Bella I blame how they wrote Ely . In the game she mature , tortured , smart and tactful . In the show she's immature and drops the F word for no reason , dumb for no reason , whiny ....it's just bad

shaneth138

I agree that context is important, but I stand by the fact that the show's changes are vastly better than the game. Also, the porch scene in the show is inarguably better than the game version of when Joel tells Ellie the truth. I couldn't believe how wooden the video game version of Joel was in that scene. Pedro as Joel is so much better I am sorry. The video game version of Ellie is great I am sure, but based on my very limited context of that version of her, she seems almost like a Hollywood version of a 19 year old, like too perfect or something. Bella seems more like a real person to me idk. Maybe I would change my mind on that if I played the game but I think Bella gets way too much flack. I think she's awesome. I think this season will play much better when people are able to binge through it when the entire series is completed. Season 2's of almost every great show is usually the weakest because it's typically a transition season, but it had some incredible moments in it that I truly think will be appreciated more over time.

WestBound

I agree the porch scene is better ...however the placement was worse . That's another thing I don't like about the changes , how the rearrange scenes in the story . That porch scene takes place almost at the end of the game it hits harder . And we don't find out what Abby is doing in Jackson until she kills Joel and it's surprising/jarring . For some reason they revealed her motive straight away . So imagine now how shocking it would be not knowing what she wanted . Joel saves her then boom she kills him and we are left in the dark until we play as her later in the game

shaneth138

Ha yeah those are the things about the game that I hate lol. Especially if it were in TV form. If Abby just killed Joel for no apparent reason in the show, everyone would’ve been even more annoyed and confused. Same with not having the porch scene where it was in the show. Imagine making people wait years for that moment. This season would be universally hated if they did it like the game. A tv show as a story telling device is so much different than a game. Again, just like how a book is much different than a movie. This is something that has been true about adaptations forever now. People don’t understand how adaptations work and just can’t handle changes to the source material despite the changes being absolutely crucial due to the vastly different story telling vehicles. I have been there myself with many things. But personally, I’m glad I can enjoy this show not having played the game because I think it’s one of the best shows ever. And I think it will get way more respect when it’s completed and watched all the way through without these multi year waits between seasons.

Alex Anderson

No, channels such as Double Toasted, Angry Joe Show, Tyrone Magnus that aren't full blown right wing are also expressing dislike of the series.

Rod Reavern

@LittleGalaxyBoy: My mistake then. I sometimes forget I have to press SHIFT+ENTER to input a line. Only pressing ENTER posts the comment. I must've made that mistake after writing the first two paragraphs you saw.

Justin Cummings

As someone who has played both games and loves both of them I hated how most of the writing was half-assed this season (Craig Mazin was the sole writer for most of the episodes) and that most of the directors didn't properly guide Bella Ramsey on how to portray their character.

Justin Cummings

Season 3 will be Abby's season. You will experience Abby's three days in Seattle that are concurrent with Ellie's three days in Seattle until Abby gets to the theater and Ellie and Abby have their first fight. Season 4 will likely adapt the game's epilogue and will also extend it.

Justin Cummings

The second game that this season partially adapted is much more darker.

LukeG84

Finally got around to watching this one, along with last week's episode. Was behind so watched them back -to-back. What a cliffhanger. Pretty cruel considering how long we're going to have to wait for season three. That being said I agree with Cassie, once they killed of Joel my interest in the series took a dive, so I can wait.

Yaisu

The game really took a weird turn when Gandalf showed up to Seattle with the Riders of Rohan behind him.

Clay F

"I can’t wait…. really I can’t wait for season 3."

shaneth138

Bella Ramsay was nominated for outstanding lead actress. Just like I said she would and you said she wouldn't.