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Ask the Genius: Are Wizards' Proficient With Dragon Claws? (Patreon)

Published:
2025-02-11 17:00:07
Imported:
2026-10
Tags:

Content

Here's a new Ask the Genius question I got.

For Pathfinder 1st edition.

"Druids gain proficiency with natural attacks they gain through wild shape. Does that mean other people aren't proficient with the natural weapons of things they polymorph into? Is a wizard not proficient with the bite and claw attacks they get from form of the dragon?"

I know MY answer, but I am curious what y'all think.

Comments

Ben Trieschmann

I would say yes, they should be. But I can see an argument for them not to be proficient with natural weapons when polymorphed.

Will Thibault

Had to look up some stuff, but FotD is a polymorph spell, and spells of that subschool give proficiency in natural attacks gained that way.

Gen Giggles

I think it depends on the type of transformation. A true polymorph would grant that, but a lower level spells shouldn't grant it.

Andy Christian

This is my reading of the rules as well. That being said, unless you can find a rule like this, I would say that if a class ability or a feat specifically say you get something, then other characters who do not have a class ability or feat (or any other rule element) that say they get that thing, they do not get that thing.

Will Thibault

Agreed. Wild Shape, at least in PF1 and despite the wording of the question, doesn’t say anything about natural attack proficiency, but it does say to treat it as Beast Shape (or other polymorph spells at higher levels) which would have proficiency covered via Polymorph. I was wondering if maybe there was a clarifying clause in the rule text or something.

Owen K.C. Stephens

As you and Andy note, the rules for the Polymorph subschool cover all the 'form' spells, and wild shape is based on them. Exactly because of Andy's thinking that is one rules calls out such things other rules don't grant it unless they say so, I personally would have had a note in wild shape, rather than the class's proficiencies, that said 'As with all polymorph abilities, druids gaining natural attacks are proficient with them (see page XX).'

Owen K.C. Stephens

The rules for the Polymorph subschool cover all the 'form' spells, stating you gain proficiency with natural weapons, and wild shape is explicitly based on them.

Owen K.C. Stephens

The rules for the Polymorph subschool cover all the 'form' spells, stating you gain proficiency with natural weapons, and wild shape is explicitly based on them.

Will Thibault

Huh, I did miss the note in the standard proficiencies entry. If it had to be noted in the class somewhere I would have much preferred it in Wild Shape like you suggest.

Ben Trieschmann

Shows how well I remember the Polymorph subschool rules.