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A fellow ttRPG creator opined in a public thread that he did not understand why Supers rpgs aren't more popular. They thought that given the rise of Supers films, more players and GMs would want to run Supers campaigns. Here are some of my thoughts on the subject.

I continue to believe Superhero ttRPG campaigns are less popular than other genres (especially Fantasy) because with Supers it's harder to bring together different thoughts on 'fun' and 'appropriate' PCs into a single group harmoniously.

If everyone wants to play the X-Men, or the Justice League, it's fine. But if one player wants to be the Hulk with major anger issues and berserker rages, and one wants to be Superman as the Big Boy Scout, and one wants to be the Punisher and assassinate people as SOP, and one wants to be Legion as a powerful reality-warping psychic with multiple personalities (some villainous) and one wants to be Marshal Law who actively hunts dangerous heroes...

It's less likely to go well.

Now a LOT of this can be fixed by friendly players who all want to help everyone have fun, and a good Session 0. But that is, sadly, not the most common group in the ttRPG world. Plus, that session 0 only fixes that if what the players want is 'any supers game,' and they can shift concepts and expectations and still be happy. If, in fact, the players who want to play the Hulk and Marshal Law are basically ONLY interested in those concepts, it's much harder to find a framework that works for both of them AND everyone else.

Also, and separately, the MAJORITY of games that get extensive adventure support are fantasy games. Even if such adventures aren't for the game system you are playing or the style of game you want to be in, the vast abundance of Fantasy adventures can make it easier to run your own fantasy adventures. Conceptually it's easy to buy Sky King's Tomb and use it for the plot, concepts, and descriptions of your home Fantasy AGE game. It's harder (though absolutely not impossible) to use it as inspirations and ideas in a supers Icons or Mutants & Masterminds game.

I think that much reduced volume of adventures is the OTHER reason Superhero games are not rising in popularity even as Superhero movies remain a huge chunk of the box office, and television, and have TONS of support in comics. In fact, I suspect among ttRPG players, having more movies doesn't actually give a lot of source material to draw from. I suspect ttRPG players with an interest in Superheroes have always known where to get the comic source material, so more in the form of movies doesn't really move the needle on the level of interest among tabletop players.

Now if you find you DO want to play more Superhero games, I STRONGLY recommend you check out the current Mutants & Masterminds 4th Edition Kickstarter, running for 16 more days at time of writing. I had nothing at all to do with it, but I know the creators (they're amazing), and I got to play a session of the 4e playtest under Alexander Thomas, so I know this is going to be good.

(Mutants & Masterminds and its associated logos, art, and characters are trademark Green Ronin Publishing. Image used for editorial purposes.)

(This editorial is not covered by the OGL)

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Comments

Jeremy Graves

Solid thoughts. Timely article, too, as I've been exploring both Mutants and Masterminds 3e and Champions 6e lately.

Bigg Nate (Nathan R. Robbins)

Yes the world of TTRPGs would be so much better off if people had something to tie it all together. It is my thought that a COH and COV version of 4e MNM would be fantastic. The creators engine could help the TT out and people could then team up in game. I think a GM editor add-on to COH could be very cool. Infact adding Earth Prime and Freedom City or even Starhaven to the landscape would be a win / win.

Bigg Nate (Nathan R. Robbins)

I have been in the play test of 4e from the start. It truly is a more user friendlt edition to get my players on board.

Bigg Nate (Nathan R. Robbins)

I also feel a hero forge integration with the COH character creation could be done if the right parties were involved.

Andre

Ever since the start of the games, where Champions was a first-mover in the superheroes genre, that system and the follow-ons quickly jumped the shark by putting the game squarely in the player-design camp, where fiddling and character optimization took a front seat over the alternative: a world setting and overall design geared towards gamemaster control, gamemaster world-building, and options for GM fiat to create and maintain player agency The later full box set for Champions had the city play map, which was nice but barely enough to solve the primary issue of player-forward over gamemaster-forward game design Superhero 2044 is much better -- https://grognardia.blogspot.com/2011/02/retrospective-superhero-2044.html -- but did not gain the popularity that Champions or Marvel Super Heroes did for the genre The GRR Martin Wild Cards' inspired Superworld, which came out right before Marvel Super Heroes also had significant promise. However, as a GM and player of these games in the 1980s, I never came across Superworld or Superhero 2044, finding them today overshadowed by the other two

Graf

Other challenges 1. there are 2 “cores” to the industry right now. -F20 zero to hero -high concept low complexity indie stuff that are usually one-offs Super heroes is neither. In fact it’s normal genre conventions are pretty antithetical to both. 2. Super heroes already has a kind of “system”. Most serious comic book fans feel like they have a pretty detailed (aka simulationist) model of how a super heroes power(s) works. There is a detail oriented vibe…. Spider-Man can lift 10 tons, his spider sense works a certain way, his web shooters work a certain way. Stan Lee can talk about how it’s all authorial fiat and there are no rules…. But the vibe is super specific. Whether you’re thinking about quirks in my hero, curses in jjk, fruit in luffie or the traditional super hero comics everyone’s powers are very specific to them. When you’re making a ttprg that’s a problem. It’s like a system on top of a system. Maybe you bought cyclops a blast power but how do you handle his “I can bounce by optic blast off of of hard surfaces“.

Gaurelin

Interesting thoughts, and I think you are on to something here in regards to Supers. I've had discussions along these lines before, in regards not only to supers but to the relative paucity of science fiction TTRPGS compared to fantasy. In part, I think that has to do with the fact that people expect tighter, more rational, and detail oriented explanations of how things work in a modern or science fiction game, whereas in a fantasy ruleset much can be hand-waved due to the existence of magic.

Daryl

Some thoughts, quickly cobbled together on my lunch break, and not in your OP or other comments. (Graf especially made great points.) 1 - For the same reason "epic" level games aren't played even in Fantasy. The power levels and impact can quickly just get over the top. 2 - Where's the room for growth/leveling? Most Supers are seen as immutable. And certainly already high-powered. Where's the leveling up for a long campaign? 3 - "Real world" physics and geography often come along with them. The bane of any table trying to tell a good story, but are part and parcel to most Supers games. (This also impacts any genre in a modern setting.) 4 - Is "Supers" just one genre? When WB did its "Arrowverse" suite of shows, it was very clear to me that Supers isn't just one genre. You have your humanscale stuff (a la Arrow) and the extreme stuff (a la Flash). And the totally wonky stuff (a la Legends). The worst parts of each were when they tried to mix. 5 - Supers are all about power fantasy. In an RPG, a big part is often "no you can't do that [at least not right now]". Players especially can be highly creative to rationalize how their power can do almost anything... But that doesn't make for good fiction nor for a good group dynamic. OR (as in a licensed game I've recently seen), the system abstracts the super characters away enough that they feel like any generic RPG character from any game, and "Superhero" just becomes a coat of paint.

Lee Christoffers

I think there's a few issues here, some of them with the most popular superhero TTRPG, others with the genre in general. The largest issue is one that's neatly handled by a lot of M&M's mechanical design, powerscaling and narrative consistency. There's very few DC comics where, for example, there isn't a good answer to "why doesn't Kyle 'Jesus' Rayner just come and white lantern this away?" (Kyle is my second favorite character in comics, this is no dig to GJ's GL lore or anything, far from it). So they constrain him a little 'well he gets tired now, and he is tired during this story'-- "okay, but is nonmagical, so why not supes for this?" ...And then that loop continues, wherein you might be able to convincingly tell a single story where your venn diagram of silver bullets, and then you have to ask "is there something compelling enough for this story to be worth exploring?". That said, its log-scaling for numbers is awesomely clever, and means that in a battle where you want to have two guys who run fast or who punch trucks down the road clashing, you can do so reasonably. The problem, however, with M&M is that it doesn't account for the power of flexibility outside of 'the DM should review if you use [arrays, etc]'. It also doesn't account for the thing that a lot of folk want in their TTRPG battles, a shonen-esque power increase feature; for all the awesome cleverness of M&M, it has no principle of a 'D&D Bard' or other buffing agent because the number math would break or just get really weird, and then you have to use narrative constraints for why everyone isn't just 100%'ing every fight (Vancian systems in TTRPGs have their own pitfalls, but they do accomplish that 'peaks and valleys' performance differential that leads to engaging gameplay moments). My last point is mixed, because M&M in practice handles it, but its not great-- Spheres of Power for PF is a much better tool despite having its own shackles for the principle of 'growth'. Many superhero stories are not about the growth of power, but about either the distillation and control of said power (see: Phoenix or any other tragic X-Men power story), or the responsible use of said power (see: X-Men and civil rights analogues, or Injustice, etc), or what happens when a similar and equal power challenges your assertions about what the morality of the status quo-- none of those give 'level up' feelings as the storylines progress, and that's what a LOT of TTRPG players across MANY genres desire, that satisfactory serotonin is why they're playing any game at all. Now, M&M can hand out additional power points as players progress, but that a) just kinda breaks some narrative status quos "I guess I'll get strong enough to punch a hole through a wall" and b) you need some defining narrative source for that power-up, because the characters are existing at a given tier and 'the McGuffin Radiation empowers you' only works as a recurring source so many times, imo.

Samuel_Almonihah

I feel like another problem is that it feels a lot harder to just wing a superhero campaign. With a fantasy (or even the proper sci fi) setting an inexperienced DM can throw together a dungeon for his friends in a weekend or even with some random tables on the spur of a moment and they can have a session without much forethought or prep. At least for me, it's hard to do something similar in a superhero setting--maybe if you have a book of pre-made villains you can come up with a plot to thwart without too much issue, but figuring out how to make it an interesting time where the heroes can't just immediately stop stage 1 and capture the villain generally requires some forethought--or some serious buy-in from the players outside what the mechanical rules say.

Bronwyn

OMG, yes; that character creation system of theirs was the best thing about that game, seriously. :) My theory had always been that if they'd been able to parse that into a kind of 3rd-party add-on for other game genres (fantasy [remember the EQniverse? still playing EQ2! :D], non-supers modern, sci-fi, etc.), they might not have gone bankrupt. ;-) On the other hand, their customer service sucked nuclear warheads, so, yeah, that still might've happened... :-/

Bronwyn

Please reassure me: does M&M 4e have anything to do with D&D 4e, or are they strictly on their own paths? Because imho, D&D 4e was about as good as NCSoft's customer service... X-P Our group is still playing Pathfinder 1e and Hero Systems 5th, as far as those go. :)

Steven Schend / Vistag Media

Remind me to tell you stories some time, Owen, of running the Marvel RPG at Chicago Comicons with the loose-leaf OHOTMU pages of every started hero & villain we had. I would do impromptu game demos with whoever the players in front of me wanted...which could get problematic as you noted in your article above. Miss doing that (although I don't miss the crowds or having to be working every July 4th weekend).