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The Mystic! But, how to add Psionic Disciplines? (Patreon)

Published:
2017-03-14 11:24:28
Edited:
2022-06-08 12:37:39
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Poll

The Mystic! But, how to add Psionic Disciplines?

  • Just get the mystic out ASAP! And figure out how to put the disciplines on the sheet later, with another poll. 8
  • Just get the mystic out ASAP! And make something for the disciplines when an official book-version is released, no reason to invest time now 4
  • Put the psionic disciplines in the third page's notes section, I don't care that they won't fit and I have to cut-paste them somewhere else 1
  • Put the psionic disciplines on a notes pages. 9
  • Add a special page just for the psionic disciplines, even though this will increase the file size with ±2MB 22
  • 2017-03-14
  • —2017-03-17
  • 44 votes
{'title': 'The Mystic! But, how to add Psionic Disciplines?', 'choices': [{'text': 'Just get the mystic out ASAP! And figure out how to put the disciplines on the sheet later, with another poll.', 'votes': 8}, {'text': 'Just get the mystic out ASAP! And make something for the disciplines when an official book-version is released, no reason to invest time now', 'votes': 4}, {'text': "Put the psionic disciplines in the third page's notes section, I don't care that they won't fit and I have to cut-paste them somewhere else", 'votes': 1}, {'text': 'Put the psionic disciplines on a notes pages.', 'votes': 9}, {'text': 'Add a special page just for the psionic disciplines, even though this will increase the file size with ±2MB', 'votes': 22}], 'closes_at': datetime.datetime(2017, 3, 17, 11, 22, tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc), 'created_at': datetime.datetime(2017, 3, 14, 11, 24, 28, tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc), 'description': None, 'allow_multiple': False, 'total_votes': 44}

Content

I'm just going to skip this week's poll to ask you what feature you would like to see added next, because I can guess your answer: The Mystic.

However, the Mystic is a large UA article, with all the subclasses, psionic disciplines and psionic talents. So, please don't expect me to tackle this one fully in a short time scale. I can probably do a quick release  today/tomorrow that includes the Mystic, as long as it doesn't need to include the psionic disciplines.

The psionic disciplines are something completely new that none of the other classes has. It basically is a class feature that grants you a certain number of choices, similar to the  Warlock Invocations, but the amount of explanatory text and options per discipline is unprecedented.I can do them the same way as other optional choices for classes  and put them on the third page  (e.g. Warlock Invocations), but there really isn't enough space to put 10 psionic disciplines -and- 4 psionic talents in that section.

Thus, the question I have for you is:How would you like to see the psionic disciplines be handled by the sheet?

EDIT: By selecting either of the "Just get the mystic out ASAP!" options, I will have the sheet include the psionic disciplines as an option to be put on the third-page notes section, but without the disciplines having any descriptions.

EDIT2: Some people are suggesting to making a new page just for class features or for all of these type of 'extra' class features that are now going to the third page's notes section.Although I really appreciate your suggestions and I don't want to take away from your input on this project, I do want to explain why that wouldn't work as an end-all future-proof remedy.If, for example, I would make a page that is solely dedicated to class features, that page would need to have a single, big, multi-line text field where all the class features would go into, as Acrobat doesn't make it possible to detect if a field is full, so the automation will never be able to take anything that is overflowing in a field and move it to another field. Then, this field will only be a bit longer than the current class feature field. Meaning that there still will be a lot of multiclassing scenarios where this field will overflow, all the while having a character sheet that is less aesthetic  and less practical.If, in another example, I would have the sheet no longer use the notes section on the third page and instead make a dedicated page for these kind of overflow class features, it would have the exact some problems as mentioned in the above example. The page would be a single, big text field, which would only come in handy for those multiclassing scenarios where you suddenly need a lot of space for these kind of 'extra' features.My suggested work-around for both these problems is to have you simply take a good look at your generated character and move the text to your desired location. This is the entire reason that the sheet is editable and WYSIWYG, so that the automation doesn't 'force' you to adhere to any kind of standard, while keeping everything working smoothly for any single-classed character.Again, I don't want to diminish your desire to make suggestions, as I read all of them! I just feel that this discussion has gotten a bit off track and given some of you the idea that there is a simply fix for these kind of questions for the future by making a page with a single multi-line text field.

Comments

Seika

2MB ain't that much these days. Yeah, it'll run a bit slower because Reader's fussy, but I reckon it's worth it to make everything work cleanly. And it means there's something in place in case they pull a similar sort of thing again.

Alex

There are what... 8 archetypes in there... As to the disciplines, I figure they're like spells and can be handled in a similar way. But I wouldn't bust my chops on this if I'm completely honest. I'd get the main class in for now, it's all play-test material.

morepurplemorebetter

2MB is quite a lot for the Printer Friendly version, which is currently 5.7 MB, but not so much for the 26 MB colourful versions. The page will be custom-made for the disciplines, so probably not so applicable to future additions of similar things, unless those things also cost Psi Points, belong to a discipline, have a special Psychic Focus ability.

morepurplemorebetter

6 archetypes ;) I thought about putting the disciplines on the spell sheet, but this just won't work because the size of the description field on the spell pages. Those simply can't hold the amount of text you need to describe a discipline.

Bobby Byrne

I know this suggestion is likely the longest to develop, but since we're already overflowing into the third page for many classes and definitely for multiclassing, maybe have an alternative layout to the second page, which is completely dedicated to class features. Then push the rest of the second page to a new third, with something to replace the class feature section.

Bobby Byrne

This would make it more useful for all classes and multiclassing, and not just Mystics.

morepurplemorebetter

This is indeed a big feature request that would take a long, long time to develop. Bigger than most of the 'big' feature additions that is on the list for the Patron goal. The major problem with making a page just for class features is that the class feature section is wider than half the page, so I would have to either add a very narrow second section on the same page or increase the width of the current section. Both of those choices will be very problematic with how all class features are currently defined, as they are custom-made to fit the width of the current section. So with both those options I would have to basically write an alternative version of each class feature’s description. This is equal to writing a 100 page book at this point! The reason that class features are put on the third page is partially because they wouldn't otherwise fit on the second page when the class is level 20, but also to give the code a place to put these kind of extra-choices without messing up the class features on the second page. Unfortunately there is now way for Acrobat to see if a field has reached its capacity when filling it through JavaScript, or otherwise I could just have it put the stuff that now goes on the third page in the Class Feature section when there is room. TL;DR: Having an alternative lay-out for the second page is not something that is feasible at this time.

Jeremy Horn

What about doing it like the warlock ,but instead of adding the explanatory text just add the name.

morepurplemorebetter

This is a very good suggestion! Unfortunately I can't edit the poll, but I will do what you suggest if the outcome is to "Just get the mystic out ASAP!"

Jeffrey Muller

My use of this project is rather limited. I use it to create my players' sheets, then print it out for them to use. Therefore, the full notes page is always removed/hidden when creating a character. How hard would it be to change that page to a Disciplines/Invocations/Multiple class feature page? A page that is created upon choosing the Mystic Class, the Warlock Class, or even a Second Class (Multi-Class).

Jeffrey Muller

Building upon this, (even possible consideration to expand to the Warlock class), if you do add these by just the name, you could have the sheet activate a description page(s). Similar to the current Reference Sheet. To provide the information, but not having to make the entire thing interactive.

morepurplemorebetter

Do you perhaps mean the third page instead of the full notes page? As the Warlock Invocations go to the third page, where the magic items and extra equipment and rules/feats reside. Making a page that fits class features from multiple classes will be very tricky, because they all have variable length of descriptions. Thus, I can't make a page that has nice separate boxes for every class feature, as that will only fit one or two classes, not all. Variable heights of graphic elements is not an option in Acrobat, unfortunately. So, ruling out that option, I would be stuck with a big multi-line 'notes' section to put these class features on, or exactly what I have now ;)

morepurplemorebetter

But do you really want three pages of Warlock Invocations (there are a lot now) when your character can only use two of them?

Jeffrey Muller

I do not, I meant the full notes page. (I literally disable that on every character that I use the sheet for, as my characters use notebooks for their notes)

Luna

You could have the disciplines listed by name only and their text in hover if it's not too obnoxious to read that way. Otherwise any of the suggestions to add them to another page or a notes page sound great.

Mark Wilkins

Jeffrey Muller and Bobby Byrne are onto good ideas. Make a page that it only set up (kind of like spell sheets) when the class features are so extensive that they call for it. The Mystic would be one such class, but so too would be /u/Zarieth's Witch class with its Bound Spirits. Most of the time they would be hidden, but would be used when needed.

morepurplemorebetter

The problem with this is that the sheet doesn't 'know' when a field is full or not. There is no way to check for that using JavaScript. So I can only add all things of a certain kind to another field, or none. And I can't have those things divide themselves over multiple fields either, if those fields are just multiline text fields just like those on the Notes pages. So all I can do is have everything go into a single field on a notes page. This is why I added it as one of the options in the poll: "Put the psionic disciplines on a notes pages."

Jeffrey Muller

Well, I would suggest to put the invocations names in the Class features section, with the rest of the features, since it is no longer taking up more than 1 line per Invocation. i.e.: Instead of saying: "◆ Eldritch Invocations (Warlock 2, PHB 107) [2 invocations known] Use the "Choose Features" button above to add Eldritch Invocations to the third page Whenever I gain a warlock level, I can replace an invocation I know with another" It would say: "◆ Eldritch Invocations (Warlock 2, PHB 107) [2 invocations known] Use the "Choose Features" button above to add Eldritch Invocations to the third page Whenever I gain a warlock level, I can replace an invocation I know with another - Book of Ancient Secrets (Eldritch Invocation, PHB 110) - Agonizing Blast (Eldritch Invocation, PHB 110)"

morepurplemorebetter

Unfortunately, what you are suggesting is not possible without re-doing a lot of the code. Also, this will only work when you have a reference sheet for all the Warlock Invocations, which I don't think to be a practical solution, as you will have a lot more to reference than you do currently. You can always copy-paste the warlock invocations into the class feature section if you have space for it. The sheet will recognize them there as well.

Jeffrey Muller

I was suggesting moving it from the notes section that the invocations are currently in, to the larger notes page that is optional, listing the descriptions there, either for all of them or the ones that you choose. Then have it only show up when choosing an the Warlock class, the Mystic class, or a multi-class. Basically, stop using the small notes section on page 3 as an overflow, and use the larger sheet on page 6. I even think you had previously mentioned replacing that note section with an extra attacks section, anyway.

morepurplemorebetter

Because of an error on Patreon, I con no longer see any of these conversations that is longer than 1 reply... So I might be responding to the wrong thing here... I personally feel that the third page is used more often than a Notes page. Moving everything to a notes page will probably just make a lot of people print more pages than they normally would. This feature request feels to me as if it would only apply to your specific preferences and not really improve the sheet for most people. If I'm not being to forward, may I remind you that you can move the text on the sheet to any place you like, and type in any text that you want? You are not bound by the automation.

Mark Wilkins

Ah, okay. Didn't know that. I switched my vote to "Put the psionic disciplines on a notes pages."

morepurplemorebetter

Having descriptions in a mouse-over text is really only applicable if each discipline has its own field, for otherwise you will get a mouse-over dialogue that is bigger than your screen (i.e. unreadable).

Jeffrey Muller

I apologize, I thought you were asking us for suggestions on to apply the new class to the sheet. I personally, don't use have a warlock, and won't be using mystic (mainly due to my aversion to Psionics). As for me, I only use the third page for feats and magic items, so that page could be removed and I wouldn't notice it much.

Luna

This is true. I just looked again and the descriptions are quite long. A notes page or individual page does seem to make the most sense even if it scrolls.

morepurplemorebetter

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be crass. There are just suddenly a lot of comments to reply to and I'm a bit overwhelmed by the amount of responses :P After re-reading your suggestion, I think what you are suggesting is simply the "Put the psionic disciplines on a notes pages." option. My idea behind this option is that it will make the disciplines appear on a newly-generated Notes page, one that is only there when the Mystic class is present.

morepurplemorebetter

If you want that, please select the option "Add a special page just for the psionic disciplines", because that is exactly what will happen then, a custom 'spell list' sheet made for psionic disciplines.

Gawain Ouronos

I, personally, like the idea of all of that information being on a separate sheet. I also second the motion that instead of using the Third Sheet for character class overflow, to create a new sheet for all character class information. This way we don't run into similar issues with multi-classes, custom information, or future potential addon/changes. Just my two cents.

Karsten Jackson

I emailed MPMB with the following idea, along with a sample javascript code to demonstrate what I mean, and they are looking into it. Sharing here for everyone else: I have an idea for the Mystic discipline design issue: you could display only the text for the "Psychic Focus" section of the Discipline under the Class Features/Notes section, and then add a bonus spell (with class limitation of "Mystic" only) for each of the Discipline Abilities, with their Psi cost as the spellcasting component and/or spell level (and displayed as At Will in the left hand column). That way you can treat the discipline abilities as a form of psionic "spell", for the purpose of displaying in a readable way (4+ spells per added Discipline, representing each of the abilities). You could even add a spellcasting school of "Psionics" specifically for these "spells". In an ideal world you could potentially create a whole new section within the spellcasting page for Psionic spells (instead of Cantrips, Spell Level 1, Spell Level 2, etc), but looking at the javascript code I can see how this would become very complicated to generate, especially when multiclassing with an actual spellcasting class. The idea I had for this was to add an additional spellcasting level (0-10, instead of 0-9, with Level 10 being labelled “Psionics”), but I would imagine this may impact the core coding for existing spellcasting classes in some way, and would need extensive testing.