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The Bad Batch 2x11/2x12 Full Reaction! (Patreon)

Published:
2024-06-25 14:17:16
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2026-06
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The Bad Batch 2x11-2x12 Full Reaction - EA - Sesskasays

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DieWinterkirsche

I LOVED the accidental pun when you said "happy the LIEUTENANT died, but I'm upset in GENERAL!" xD

Saltire le Hutt

2x11 : The atmosphere as they build up the creature in this episode is spine-tingling. They did such a good job making a cartoon feel like the legendary sci-fi horror Alien! So we head back to Mount Tantiss, this is where much of those funds Rampart 'redistributed' which were assigned for Kamino, went. Its obviously a secret operation that Palpatine wants to keep under wraps for his more nefarious cloning schemes. Tech mentions it near the end of the episode, that the Empire didn't want to destroy Kaminoan cloning, merely to control it. We know where this is all going through the sequels and Mando, and this is the start. We meet our new nemesis, Doctor Hemlock (and just to make sure we know he's our baddie, he's named after the poisonous plant the Greeks used both to treat joint pain and execute prisoners). He has a very quiet and calm demeanour, but its usually the quiet ones you need to look out for the most! Love the callback to Season 2 of Clone Wars, which featured the Zillo Beast story, which was back in 2010, so it took 12 years to go somewhere with that plot, but it was worth it! It makes perfect sense too to bring it into the cloning story the Empire is experimenting with. I was slower on the uptake about being the Zillo because the Zillo Beast is a story I never revisit when I go through Clone Wars again on rewatches, as I just feel sorry for it; in the same way I can't watch King Kong as seeing animals used and being shot at just upsets me! Even if its just fiction! :D Now it gets back captured and the Empire here ragains control over it to send it back to Mount Tantiss to do god knows what else to it under Hemlock's guidance. The Empire's commandoes (clone commandoes at that) come in to round up the villagers, probably imprisoning them someplace. They will not want this getting out of what happened here. And now Lama Su comes in, wants his freedom and puts Omega under the bus, for it. Rampart should have killed him. Cracking episode which sets new plots in action with the cloning, our new antagonist Hemlock, the Empire looking for Omega now, and to top it off a cameo from the Zillo Beast!

Saltire le Hutt

2x12 : As soon as the title comes up stating "The Outpost" and we hear that foreboding music and screen delay until the opening shot, we feel this is going to be a heavy one, and boy is it that. Its been a while since we've seen Crosshair, but this episode is more than worth the extended wait. Straight from the off, we all want Lieutenant Nolan killed in the most brutal way. His utter disregard for clones gets our hackles up! So we meet Commander Mayday - Dee Bradley Baker's (and mine also) favourite new clone. Straight from the off you can tell he's been there and seen it all, and imbues authority and confidence in his command, unlike Lt. Nolan. Mayday technically outranks Nolan by at least two ranks, but with the clones now getting phased out he doesn't have any authority under the Empire, and so this experienced combat commander is left here on this iceball along with other clones. I love the introductory scene between Mayday and Crosshair. When Mayday gives his name and expects Crosshair to tell him his, he does, but after a long pause. Clones don't have names under the Empire, he's CT-9904 and has gone under that for a while now. ("All you'll be to them is a number") When Mayday is fixing the mine and speaks with Crosshair about his former squad, and Crosshair mentions "they're gone...", there is almost a tinge of sadness in that line delivery. His brothers are on another path, and he is here... When Crosshair lifts up Mayday to carry him, it absolutely breaks me. All this time, from when we first met him in Clone Wars, he's been saying he'll leave behind his brothers; but in Mayday he saw not a reg, but himself, a grumpy but pragmatic clone, a good soldier who followed orders, and instead of dying in battle like the hero he was, froze to death protecting equipment for his replacements, all for a regime that doesn't care and classes him as an expendable obsolete item. Second episode of Clone Wars : "we are clones sir, we are meant to be expendable" / Plo Koon : "not, to me". This is the clones reward for ridding the galaxy of the Jedi and winning the war, and seeing that they were expendable all along... They get back to the base and Nolan refuses Mayday help. After he passes and Nolan's message about all the clones being expendable, the message gets through to Crosshair. He looks up at the vulture overhead. Its coming for him, its coming for all clones now. Ahsoka's bird, Morai is a guardian angel for her and helps her; my interpretation is this thing is the opposite, its an omen of all the clones fates. Crosshair finally breaks and kills Nolan; who he is deep down puts a stop to this, he'll be a part of it no longer, his brothers were right and finally he sees this. Then when Crosshair now sees the error of his ways, the Empire doesn't dispose him but brings him back in, to do god knows what nefarious thing to him, and sink him further into hell. This is his punishment for all the wrong decisions he's made. This is the best episode of the show for me, period. It's so bleak, there is no hope at all here.

Saltire le Hutt

There are many other interpretations of the vulture that I have been reading about that may flesh out more of the general story with Crosshair and the clones, that you may be interested in. One theory is it represents the circle of life and death, the physical death of Mayday but also a different kind of death for Crosshair. He has killed the part of him devoted to the Empire by killing the lieutenant. In this act he cleanses himself, has been reborn, and his soul has been purified. I can largely see this though he will still need to undergo penitence for some of his evil deeds he has done. Theory two : Crosshair is the vulture. "We’re soldiers — we do what needs to be done" - he's shown to be motivated by his own self-preservation. He was an elite soldier, but at this point he's nothing more than a glorified scavenger cleaning up the empire’s messes and living off whatever scraps they toss to him. He's often also portrayed a lot in the background, or perched up high as he snipes away, like a vulture awaiting an opportunity. Theory three : the Empire is the vulture, awaiting the clones to be decommissioned or killed off, for its own benefit so that it can become bigger and fatter as it can then feed on the misery it spreads across the galaxy. Theory four : Crosshair was never really the vulture, but is made to think that he is. His journey throughout this is him learning to reject this lie and discover his true nature. He captures the rest of the Bad Batch in season one but then begs them to stay with him. He saves Omega from drowning when he didn't have to. He tries to save Mayday when being told they are all cogs in the machine and expendable. He shoots the separatist governor that saves Cody from a charge of insubordination. In those moments, perhaps a part of his true nature is breaking through to show who he really is deep down. He's shown he has had no love for the Empire through all this too, despite him trying to believe its for his own good. He kills the squad member who wouldn't act out Tarkin's orders; he kills the remainder of the squad who have the Bad Batch surrounded on Kamino; he kills Nolan here. This shows how lost and twisted the Empire has made him, both through the influence of the chip and in their subsequent missions given to him. When he pauses to recall his name to Mayday, he has been hammered down into thinking he is a droid by always being referred to by his birth number. With the events that happen here, he finds his breaking point, who he is deep down is finally rejecting this. As I have said previously, Crosshair may not be all that likeable, but his journey and story is as profound as someone like Cassian Andor in his series, who was a parasitic worm looking out only for himself; but with everything that happens to him along the way, he beings to 'rebel' against all that and the Empire.

Thomas Corp

A long-awaited reaction has come at last. Plenty to say as you said. It’s nice to see the batch put their foot down with Cid, though it is a nice gesture that they want to part on peaceful enough terms with the one last job. Shame the job is something straight out of Alien, complete with the screams sound just like Harry Dean Stanton screaming in that movie. I had to work to contain my glee, from the sound of it, lots of fans felt the same, at the realization that we were FINALLY continuing the Zillo Beast story. I likewise had to contain my glee when you instantly clocked what was up, even if you did second guess yourself. I saw you point with the expression of recognition, and gleefully said, “GodDAMN is Jess so fucking smart! It’s so great!” It is beyond wonderful how Tech shared the Emperor’s reaction to the Zillo Beast, specifically the reaction, “What IS this!? I got to study this!” Men after my own heart. Your own reaction to Tech saying, “FASCINATING!” upon seeing the Zillo Beast made me smile. And how you expressed fondness for when Tech tries to be comforting, yet is not very comforting, that’s me told; it happens to me all the time. It was also most heartwarming how you emphatically refute Tech’s assertion that concern for his well-being is unwarranted. We would all be VERY UPSET, Jess, if dear Tech got eaten. Love your concern for the village. It became quite tense when the Empire showed up to collect the Zillo Beast. And the batch realizes what they’re into is bigger than anything they anticipated. Evidence of that is that we resume the plotline teased at the end of season one. With that, we are formally introduced to the main villain of the series, Dr. Hemlock. Who for a Star Wars villain, contrary to the norm, to my knowledge is not terribly beloved. My thoughts were this: You see Hemlock, and you think, “Oh, grand. Another pezzonovante who thinks he can ultimately become the big cheese of the Empire.” As someone who, as you well know, has a strong passion for the villains in practically everything, I agree with the consensus view that Hemlock is a hateful villain. Fascinating, yet completely hateful, completely amoral. Cares for nothing except his experiments with little to no concern about what happens to those he tests on. He’s kind of like a Star Wars equivalent of the John Cassavetes character in The Fury, albeit as an amoral scientist rather than a heartless and corrupt bureaucrat. The other primary difference being you already knew that given this is a “kids’ show”, whatever his fate would be, if it were to be shown in this show, that is, it would not be the same fate as the fate that the aforementioned John Cassavetes character suffered. Shame. And he’s trying to get Nala Se to work with him to little avail, leading to the consultation with Lama Su. Many fans thought Lama Su died, and we were mildly surprised to learn of his survival. So, you’re not alone on that one. And it causes the heart to sink like a stone when he informs Hemlock that Omega will be the key to acquiring Nala Se’s cooperation. This combined with Scorch seeing the batch on the Zillo Beast mission, they’re now back on the Empire’s radar. Or at least Hemlock’s radar. And you are NOT happy with that.

Thomas Corp

And now we come to the main attraction of this reaction. (Oh, shit, that rhymes.) The real good emotional punch to the gut for Crosshair. This episode is often listed as the singular masterpiece of the show; the best episode. Whilst my favorite is the political two-parter earlier in the season, I concede this one is objectively perhaps the best. Certainly, my favorite Crosshair episode if nothing else. It feels very Kubrickian, especially Paths of Glory and Full Metal Jacket. We ALL anticipated your reaction to Nolan, the most universally hated character of the show. He was a hardass extraordinaire with a virulent prejudice against the clones. Not unlike that Quisling rat FUCK!! Piece of SHIT!! Pong Krell. Whom most all the fans saw comparisons and saw this new character as a second coming as it were. I concur: This Nolan stunod, this disgraziato, him and Krell, two of a kind. And indeed, the stanzas rhyme as your own delightful reaction to Nolan when you instantly expressed distaste for him so PERFECTLY rhymed with your instant distaste for Krell way back when. I had to pause just to laugh a little. Just like with Krell, eventually you wish death on Nolan, which to answer your question of is that unbecoming, no it ain’t. Not in my opinion. As it was in the Umbara arc, when you express that, I again say, “Your hatred, your anger. You want to kill him. That is what I want.” The grand emotional arc of the episode is Crosshair’s time with Mayday, whom one could argue it’s his episode just as much as it is Crosshair’s. The relatability of you’re in just an unpleasant situation, and a bond is forged with a fellow man during it, it resonates viscerally. The landmine scene is great, and I love that you loved the back-and-forth dialogue during that. And now I can finally tell you that I almost made a joke connected to this episode in my comment on the landmine episode of Doctor Who. Specifically, I almost wrote the joke, “Well, the Doctor should be good. He just has to shout “Mayday” and help will arrive lickety-split.” The voice in my head chimed in with a slightly emphatic, “Don’t do that, Tom.” which helped stay my hand on that one. The discovery of the Stormtrooper armor doth incite copious anger. Then the big moment of Crosshair carrying Mayday. I KNEW your reaction to that would be perfect, Jess, and you once again exceed all expectations. The music is phenomenal. Especially how a compliment I hear given to John is that he is a man who knows how to use a French horn. Kevin Kiner does so as well to GREAT effect in that sequence, which though I’m still ascertaining my favorite music of this show, that piece is up there high. When you apologized for getting emotional, I yelled, “You don’t have to apologize. Don’t you ever fucking apologize, Jess, for getting emotional in these shows, especially during prominent clone scenes. We’re all with you and behind you all the way on that one.” I’m with you on that scene swelling the heart something fierce. It guts you when Mayday dies, and Nolan is obscenely callous about it. And it gives you what you’ve been anticipating, and indeed the fans were anticipating. Crosshair has been gradually seeing the reality of the situation over the series. It is in this mission that the heavy dose of reality lands with him forging the bond with Mayday, and dealing with Nolan, that he fully realizes that the Empire considers him and his brothers to be nothing. In the Empire’s eyes, they are viewed as little more than a thumbprint on the window of a skyscraper; a smudge of excrement on a tissue surging out to sea with a million tons of raw sewage. The expression on his face is heartwrenching, though it becomes cathartic when it morphs into the grim look of determination and resignation. It is IMMENSELY satisfying how he gets Nolan to turn around and silently has the, “You. Will. WATCH. THIS.” energy as he ventilates Nolan’s chest, loved your reaction to that. Alas, by doing so, much though it is satisfying both the act and Crosshair finally crossing the Rubicon with his rebellion, it now is grim that he’s in the tight spot. Again, these reactions were PERFECTION, Jess. Thank you so, so, SO very much for them. They are most treasured.

Thomas Corp
>>141815081

Shared love for the Alien homage. The Emperor is being most circumspect about Tantiss, for good reason. Love Tech discovering the Goldfinger-esque strategy of destroying Kamino to have the monopoly on the cloning technology. Hemlock is aptly named. Again, much though my reputation is that I’m a villains guy, though fascinating, Hemlock is most hateful, which considering his presumed character influence, feels deliberate. A delight it was to have new Zillo Beast material. I heard they did plan for more in Clone Wars before the cancellations. So, it’s nice to see the return to the plotline here. I hear you on King Kong being emotionally difficult to watch. Terrifying thought of the Empire having the cloned Zillo Beast. I assume the villagers would be killed given Hemlock’s amorality. In terms of Rampart should have killed Lama Su, he should have done a lot of things, and he didn’t. How’s that working out for him? Fantastic episode.

Thomas Corp
>>141815115

Oh, yes, they set the dread for this one early. An episode that was well worth the wait and more than made up for Crosshair’s extended absence. I’m sometimes thrown when there’s such immediate and powerful hatred for a character that we have just met. In Nolan’s case, it is BEYOND justified. I HATE him. I KNEW Jess would have the instant hatred for him as we all did. Mayday is awesome. Dee’s got good taste. (Then again, he does say that of the batch, Wrecker is his favorite to voice, though I attribute that to how fun it is, so I don’t judge too harshly on that one.) You love Mayday’s battle worn weariness and sass. The introductions between Crosshair and Mayday are great, especially that pause with the names. I do like how even with trying to still be the cog, Crosshair does have the brief indulgence of sass when Mayday inquires if Crosshair’s known Nolan long, and Crosshair deadpans, “About two hours.” with a tone that conveys, “Yeah, that guy’s an asshole, I ain’t arguing with you on that one.” Love the mine scene, and that powerful line delivery when Crosshair speaks of his family. Oh, yeah, shared moment of being broken when Crosshair carries Mayday. How all of it serves a such a perfect culmination of Crosshair’s arc, it’s beautiful. They were good soldiers. They followed orders. They had good men like Plo fight for them, even someone who was a hardass like Mace had moments where he wouldn’t leave the clones behind. And in the end, the Empire hammers home the point that they always were as expendable as they feared they were. Gutting stuff. Powerful moment when Crosshair reaches his limit. How you can tell he expects to die, and commits to taking Nolan with him as he crosses the Rubicon. And to end on the scene where after he’s already gone through hell for his sins and crimes, he is now in an even deeper circle of Hell. The heart just shatters. This is where I apply my logic and mentality of separating favorite and best, in that though the political two-parter is my favorite of this show, this is objectively the best, and certainly my favorite Crosshair episode. It’s like how I rank my favorite films. I’m not saying these are the greatest films ever made, though I note some are, I’m ranking them on which ones do I love the most. It’s where I’d lose credibility if I was ever a film critic as the top ten lists would be listed as favorites rather than best. Though again, there would be mention made if there was the genuine thought of a film being objectively the best of a given year even if it isn’t my personal favorite. Like here, much though I love the political two-parter more, this episode is the masterpiece of the series.

Thomas Corp
>>141815146

Reading over what you wrote, I like to think that interpretation of the vulture, it represents a combination of the second and fourth theory, with a shade of the first as well. It is amazing how, though Hunter and Omega are the primary throughline of the show, Crosshair and Tech emerge as having arguably the two most satisfying arcs. In Crosshair’s case, his arc would fit right in with a Dostoevsky work. Great stuff.

Ryan

"First, yes you do. Second, yes you do." Okay, I'm definitely stealing that. With Rampart out of the way, we need a new major villain, and the show makes the smart move to pivot to a totally different kind of threat, a soft-spoken torture scientist who instantly makes you wonder if one of his hands has six fingers. The bad news is that he's not fun at all and simply makes you instantly eager for the moment when he finally snaps and cracks that monotone (what I like to call the Everyone Moment, after Gary Oldman's big scene in Leon). Elsewhere, we catch up with one of the more explicit plot hooks that had to be abandoned after the initial cancellation of Clone Wars, and getting to see the Zillo Beast in this improved animation style is a real treat. Of course, the second episode is the main show this week. Everyone had been waiting since the start for something to turn Crosshair toward rethinking the Empire, and I'll just say that while it's done about as well as it could be, at this point I still wasn't sympathizing much with him. Much like John Cena in the last couple Fast and Furious movies, I'm not very impressed with a character's sense of morality if it takes such a direct betrayal to snap them out of working for the bad guys, so my response here was just "Let me guess, you never thought the leopards would eat your face." Anime dub maestro Crispin Freeman (I think of him most as the guy who near-singlehandedly makes the dub of Revolutionary Girl Utena worth existing) makes for a marvelous despicable chud whose sole purpose is being so bad that Crosshair would be disillusioned, and it makes for quite the fist-pumping moment to see him get his. And I don't know if it was deliberate, but the reveal of what's in the crates very much brings to mind the classic devastating scene from A Bridge Too Far where a soldier gets killed for what turns out to just be a box full of hats, very fitting for the story we have here.

Ryan
>>141816212

I realized halfway through that she was presumably watching this one in pretty close proximity to First Blood, which I have to imagine wasn't the best headspace for whichever came second. At least Mayday had his legs.

Thomas Corp
>>141824947

I think I’m borrowing that for future use as well. The show is smart to have the primary villain be a deliberate contrast to Rampart serving as the heavy. Yeah, Hemlock, though hammy, is not the enjoyable hammy. He’s the ham that you pulled out of the fridge and didn’t bother to heat up in the microwave. He’s still engaging enough through his being fascinatingly amoral, even by Imperial standards. Good note on the anticipation for him to have the “EEVVV-ERRYYYY-ONNNEEEE!!!!” moment like Gary so deliciously had in Léon. I recall you loving the design of the Zillo Beast, and yeah, it is great to see it in the improved animation. It seems like we all anticipated this episode and by extension, this reaction from Jess. Fair enough, about the feelings of sympathy toward Crosshair, or rather, as you say, the lack thereof. You say that line about the leopards, (Which reminds me, I really should put out my Palpatine/Vader 2024 sign in my front yard.) my mind goes to the one line Chigurh had, “All right. Let me ask you something. If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?” Crispin Freeman, like Dave Fennoy did as Pong Krell, superbly sells what a loathsome individual Nolan is leading to that moment when you punch the air when Crosshair shoots him. I could see the A Bridge to Far homage being deliberate. It makes sense if nothing else.

Saltire le Hutt
>>141816192

Yes its not just the "fascinating" line that I like from Tech, when he sees the Zillo, but you can see his eyes widen in both horror and interest as just what a bizarre creature it is. No one wanted to see Tech eaten, I could live with Hunter getting eaten, but not our Tech! :D Hemlock may not be particularly beloved, but he comes across as a more capable villain than Rampart so fans accepted that I think! Its a bit like the early stuff with Rebels, where we had those two goofballs on Lothal that the Spectres kept taking the mick out of, and to an extent Kallus; but as soon as Tarkin showed up, you know things get more serious. Likewise with Hemlock. He's also more dangerous as we see straight from his opening scene with Nala Se, that he is a believer in the Empire and the Emperors might, so not as self-serving as Rampart. If we expected Lama Su to be killed off in season 1, we definitely wanted him murdered after selling out Omega for his freedom!! Git!! Bloody Scorch as well, another git!! :D