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Classic Who "The Five Doctors" Part 1 EARLY Early Access! (Patreon)

Published:
2024-09-27 13:00:18
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2026-06
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Classic Who "The Five Doctors" Part 1 Reaction

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Comments

Josef Schiltz

Now, I’m going to have to have a teeny confession to something here. Back in 1981, during Peter Davison’s first season, a friend and colleague and myself travelled to London from Ipswich to meet up with JNT to interview him for an underground magazine that we were putting together. For the following issue, a second trip was to interview producer Vere Lorrimer, who was in charge of the fourth series of Blake’s Seven. During the interview with JNT, I mentioned two things to JNT that he, apparently, knew nothing. The first was the striking similarity between the transitory element of Tom Baker’s regeneration into that of the Fifth Doctor, Peter Davison, of a future avatar - in this case, The Watcher - and the regeneration of the Abbot K’anpo Rimpoche in Jon Pertwee’s final story, The Planet Of The Spiders. The future avatar in this case being Cho-Je. The second, was the remarkable likeness that Richard Hurndall bore to William Hartnell in his role as Nebrox in the Blake’s Seven episode ‘Assassin’ wearing a Hartnellesque wig. I was quite astonished and somewhat chuffed when Hurndall turned up as The First Doctor in the special and pondered upon whether I’d had a role in that. My place in Doctor Who history? I had always hoped that I would end up drawing one of the strips. As it is, perhaps this is my one contribution and a couple of illustrations in some books by Peter Haining that were published around that time? One must take what one gets. A fortunate happenstance was that Richard Hurndall was a friend of William Hartnell and was thusly enabled to approach the role with the right touch and do a very good impersonation. Tom is on record saying that he still felt proprietorial about the role and declined to return for The Five Doctors. In a publicity photoshoot for the special, the main cast posed with a Fourth Doctor replica from Madame Tussaud's. If memory serves, Patrick was not far from his role as Cole Hawlings in the BBC adaptation of John Masefield's The Box Of Delights at this point. He said that "I regret getting the hair wrong. The hairdresser used to lift it up with curlers in order to give it that (unruly mop) look, but I forgot this time." So this is how his hair naturally looks. The introductory sequences of both Pat and John were matted in to the multi Doctor sequence when Clara Oswald met each in the "I was born to save the Doctor" sequence. Pat running towards the camera was lifted from the running from the time scoop scene with the Brigadier and Jon passing by Clara in Bessie was taken from the time scoop chasing the Doctor in Bessie. Clara calling out "Doctor" in each - but, of course, he doesn't hear her. Incidentally, the horse in the field - 5 mins 58 sec - in my mind, has the voice of Mr Ed and he is thinking, "He's going to pile up that old roadster one of these days . . . . oop! . . . here he comes again!" As for sensory deprivation, Tegan and Susan didn't see that one Cyberman on the hillock opposite? What? he stuck out like a sore thumb! It's one of those 'No-one saw The African Queen' moments. Delightful response to this story, Jess. We've be awaiting this for quite some time and knew you would get quite emulsional at seeing all the old faces popping up again. It was a delight!

Azmat Mahmood

William Hartnell had passed in 1975, so that explains why he isn't in this and why Richard Hurndall was recast in the role, but you may be wondering why Tom Baker isn't in this. There are various reasons why Tom Baker refused to return for this story. Tom had done Doctor Who for seven long years and was trying to shake the image of the Doctor off his back. The Five Doctors was only two years after Tom left (he Left in 81, Five Doctors was in 83), so at the time he felt it was far too soon for him to return. He also really didn't get along with John Nathan Turner, who was the producer and in charge of the show at the time. JNT took over from Tom's final season and made a lot of changes that upset him. In fact, a large part of why Tom eventually chose to leave is because he found working with JNT really difficult. Tom has said that he now regrets this decision. A large part of that is probably due to the fact that Tom was never really able to escape the shadow of Doctor Who anyway, despite all his best efforts. I also think he realises he made a selfish decision and he has said that he wishes he could go back and change it. I still think The Five Doctors turned out pretty well all things considered. It was certainly up against it!

Ryan
>>150658113

I think it kind of worked out for the best, as he definitely would have overshadowed the others, Five taking over his subplot lets the current Doctor stand out much more than he was going to, and Four being stuck like this gives the story much higher stakes as fitting such a big epic special.

Thomas Corp

You know, with the benefit of hindsight, Tom not reprising his role of Four DOES mean that the one Doctor that fought Sutekh in Classic Who doesn’t return to the current TARDIS, and ask, “...Why does it smell like wet dog in here?” Assuming of course that Sutekh had in fact attached himself to the TARDIS by this time, which, as I recall, he had.

James Fish

Thank you for a wonderful reaction, which I was very much looking forward to seeing. I could talk for England about this story but I'll try not to lol! This is a story which I of course love for the reunions. It remains one of my favourites for this very reason. Having said this, I find myself being disappointed by what we didn't get in equal measure of loving what we did get. There were a couple of things I would have loved to see but I guess the budget probably wouldn't have stretched that far! I wish K-9 could have played a bigger part, but that pales slightly for me in terms of the fact Tom wasn't in it. He'd been my 'Doctor' growing up & was very instrumental in what gave me such a passion for the series. To say I was gutted at the time is putting it mildly! I was so incensed by this that I started writing a version of it where he was in it. I had him appearing in the Death zone in the punt with Romana saying 'I wonder what Newton would have had to say about that!' Never finished it lol, but I might do one day! It's been mentioned why he didn't appear so I won't hark on it. He was very apologetic about it later in life & I get his reasons. The funny thing is, he was all set to be in it, having initially agreed, but pulled out at the '11th hour'. As much as that is said, I love this story for so many reasons & yes It's great to see Susan after all that time! With that said, see you next time!

Thomas Corp
>>150679331

It is interesting about that of who is the Doctor growing up. Well, obviously it was off the air when I was born, and the revival started when I was a week shy of fourteen, so for me, the term “my Doctor growing up” is a tiny bit of a stretch. Particularly as reruns weren’t exactly commonplace in the States back then. Closest equivalent would be David Tennant who started during my first year of high school and regenerated by my brief time in college. Yet the Doctor that I consider my Doctor is Twelve, with Eleven being a very close second. It’s the rough tie between One and War for third favorite. You say you were gutted by not having Tom return as Four for this, and even that would be putting it mildly like you said, I can understand that.

James Fish
>>150679331

I think in terms of The Doctor you warm to the most, it's probably put down to what Doctor was at the helm when you realized you loved the show & generally when you enjoyed it the most. the show is such a phenomena in as much as the length of time it's been airing that everyone gets to have a point where they first identify with the show & that for me is very special. Tom played The Doctor when I was between the ages of 3 & a half and 10 & I knew right from the get go I'd fallen in love with the series. In terms of the show, he had the longest run of the series, so for me, it's all I ever knew. I recall being shocked when he regenerated and it was only after that I became aware that he'd been one of several versions of The Doctor up to that point. The BBC never repeated the show so you had to be in when it was on in order to watch it. Video recorders had only really started to take off in the UK after Tom left the role so you were totally out of luck if you missed it lol. I don't think we got one until 1983. I mildly warmed to Peter's portrayal of the role (he's grown on me since) & when this story was originally announced in the TV magazines, I was so hyped for it & absolutely love what we got but felt that twinge of disappointed by Toms absence as well as other things we didn't get. I'll speak more about what I know of the draft of this story which included him after the next reaction.

Thomas Corp
>>150679331

That likely does factor into it of when you realize you love the show, and when you enjoyed it the best. There is something special about how it is different for everyone, I agree. The revival started at the time I turned fourteen, like I said, though you knew the police box, Daleks, and if nothing else, you knew at least the image of Tom Baker as Four as he tended to be one of if not the only Doctor most widely recognized in the States. Though I did happen to know about Patrick as Two. More or less had an instant love for the revival when it premiered. There is the agreement with Jess of in terms of the revival era, loving when Moffat was the showrunner the best. Tom still maintaining the record for longest run of the Doctor, I get how it would be a shock when he regenerated. It is something how technology has evolved with being able to record. And now this newest season didn’t even air on tv, at least not that I saw. It was all on Disney+, and there was still the thing of treating it like live television of trying to be at home to see it as soon as it came on. I get too how the immediate Doctor following the Doctor that becomes your favorite would face a bit of an uphill battle, winning of affections-wise. I got stuck with that some with Jodie as Thirteen following Peter as Twelve, who to be perfectly fair, Jodie was quite good, and the only real reason she ends up second to last on my ranking of Doctor’s is dissatisfaction with lots of Chibnall’s writing, rather than Jodie, as she was great. Now some time into Ncuti’s run, and the distance of time helps with having warmer feelings for Jodie’s run as the Doctor, kind of like how you said with Peter.

Josef Schiltz
>>150679331

It's interesting that, remarking about Peter Davison in an interview, Heather Hartnell said that Peter reminded her of Bill when he was a young man. I am going to say - possibly unpopularly, but here goes - that I am glad that Tom wasn't in it. It was a clean break from his seven years and I believe the programme benefitted from it. I think he was right - and personally wise - not to do it, especially if he didn't see eye-to-eye with JNT. It may have made for an unhappy experience.

Daniel Davies

Originally, the character of Colonel Crichton was supposed to be Benton, but John Levene turned it down because in the script, he isn’t suppose to know who the second Doctor is, despite the fact that Benton already met the second Doctor twice. Also, Benton in charge of U.N.I.T, that would be the one thing in this story where everyone would go ‘That doesn’t make any sense’. Also, JNT and Carol Ann Ford had a few arguments when making this, because JNT didn’t want Susan to call the Doctor ‘Grandfather’ because it implies that the Doctor has had sex and he said that it was inappropriate. But Carol stood her ground and said “I called him ‘Grandfather’ when I was on the show, so I’ll keep calling him ‘Grandfather’”.

Steve McMullan

The Second Doctor is so iconic that he managed to spawn an enduring catchphrase (variations of "You've redecorated. I don't like it.", first used in "The Three Doctors" ) even after he left the show. Variations of the line have turned up in the modern era in exchanges between Ten and Sarah Jane, Eleven and James Corden's character, Ten and Eleven (and David Tennant put his best Patrick Troughton frowny-face on for that scene), Twelve and Clara and Thirteen and her TARDIS (Of course, Thirteen flipped the script and said "I really like it", because of course she did.)

James Fish
>>150679331

Yes, when I think about it, I think there's definitely a resemblance between a young Hartnell & Peter. I wonder if that were a conscious decision when they cast him. I understand where you're coming from in terms of the behind the scenes stuff with Tom & JNT. Tom was allegedly notoriously difficult to work with & I do wish the circumstances were right for him to have not had such potential issues playing the part just one more time. He did at least put in an appearence at Longleat alongside the others. I've seen bits of the footage from the interview panel, where Jon teases him about bnot being able to stand up with the 'weight of that scarf!'. Seemed like a really good atmosphere. Would love to see the whole thing. Also, many years ago he had a website which had merch & a chat forum. He'd do a spot every month called Bakers Dozen where he'd answer 13 questions sent in from fans. Occasionally he'd show up in the chat as a 'representative of Tom' under the pseudonym of 'The Queen of hearts'. We all knew it was him because he'd ask for our thoughts on some very morbid subjects lol! Ultimately, I feel that he'd been such a big part of the show & most of the younger fanbase adored him so it came as a big disappointment to many when he didn't show up in it. Still, it is what it is & it's far from a failure. I still hugely enjoy watching what we did get.

Josef Schiltz
>>150679331

Well, of course, JNT had worked with Peter on All Creatures Great and Small where he was - I think - Production Unit Manager. JNT said he had the vulnerable qualities that he was looking for. The funniest description I had heard of Peter was that he had the air of a "debauched choir boy".

Josef Schiltz
>>150698728

Good that she did that! It would have made no sense whatsoever to call him 'Doctor'. Why on earth would she do that? JNT does seem to have been a bit of a berk sometimes. Much like RTD in a way.

Rob Walters
>>150658113

In no way whatsoever would Tom Baker overshadow Patrick Troughton. Davison certainly, Pertwee perhaps but Troughton....NEVER.

Rob Walters
>>150654321

Lol, Amazingly Tom's proprietorial feelings are still just as strong after 42 years..... I wish he'd at least be honest and say he has no intention of sharing the screen with any other Doctor, because that is why he never has.

Josef Schiltz

Just think, Jess. If all the Hartnells and Troughtons were still in existence, you wouldn't be anywhere near The Five Doctors yet! You'd still be in early Baker!

Josef Schiltz
>>150658113

There would probably be some mutual irritation there, but respect. It's hard to tell how they would have interrelated. Both men were - and are -so extraordinary and complex in character. I believe that Pat would be the more philosophical of the two. Tom seemed to have been, sadly, from all accounts, including his own, in a somewhat sullen and easily annoyed mood at that time.

High Voltage

The definitive Anniversary special.