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Echo 1x04 Full Reaction! (Patreon)

Published:
2024-01-25 13:45:01
Imported:
2026-06
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Echo 1x04 Full Reaction

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Ryan

One thing guaranteed to piss me off in a story is acting like it's wrong to refuse to forgive people. And just recently we had one of the worst ever cases of that with the new Color Purple movie whose message is literally that abused people will go to Hell if they don't forgive their abusers and become friends with them (maybe that's true to the book, I haven't read it, but you'd think an adaptation in this day and age would be smart enough to get rid of it). So it was a huge relief to see this show acknowledge that Maya doesn't owe her grandmother a single fucking thing after abandoning her for so long no matter how bad she feels about it now, and even Chula herself doesn't seem to expect it or think she has any right to it. Which conversely actually made me a lot more open to possibly seeing it happen.

Thomas Corp

Another episode, another lovely time hearing your great commentary, Jess. I do express my sympathy for your being under the weather. Even when you’re not a hundred percent, you are still excellent. LOVE the strong focus on Kingpin in this episode. Vincent is tremendous as he always is. Ever since being introduced to him in Men in Black, he’s always great. And seeing him here tells me again that I really need to see the Daredevil show. From what I have seen of this variant of Kingpin, you sum up well about his actions and thought process to those he has allowed into his heart. I find it’s perhaps good that I don’t have kids as I related a wee bit too much with Kingpin when he went to confront the ice cream vendor. I’m not saying I’d go as far as he went, yet I put myself in his shoes, and I find I can’t say I blame him for what he did. The confrontations between Kingpin and Maya were excellent, complete with Vincent and Alaqua selling their characters’ history. Had a laugh about the Sunday dinner being on the Thursday. I liked you calling Kingpin out on his referring to Maya as being a monster when he is one himself. I doubt he’d disagree. It is his point though that she condemns him for his being a monster when given her past actions, she lacks much of a moral high ground. Of course, to Maya’s and your own point, Kingpin molded her into such a monster, which I concede that. I had the similar thing that you did in the first episode when Kingpin discussed his father’s death, I thought, “I might be wrong, I haven’t seen the show, but I think I’ve heard that he killed his father himself.” You of course have seen the Daredevil show, so you knew about that with certainty, whereas it was less clear on my part. Come this episode, where he reveals the hammer and the story behind it to Maya, I said, “Yeah, so I was aware of that.” It was a bit scary when Kingpin slightly shifted gears with attempting to compel Maya to go down the “Strike me down with ALL of your hared!!” road. It is as you observe, he genuinely cannot comprehend why Maya would wish to reject the life by his side, and it makes him very angry. Slightly curious as to how he still has his left eye, or at least it appears he still has it. I know in the comics that he’s a sturdy son of a bitch, yet as I understand it, in the MCU, he doesn’t quite have the same durability as he does in the comics. Or maybe he now has an artificial eye. Great scene with Maya’s Uncle Henry. You and I both enjoyed his saying to Maya that he knows she could be the top dog, and that’s his concern. The visions she receives persist, leading to your Buffy reference, which took me a second, I said, “I don’t even understand the ref-Oh, that’s Buffy! Still haven’t seen that.” Then there’s the big emotional scene between Maya and Chula that you said you wanted. Alaqua and Tantoo, they both hit me in the heart, bad. I loved hearing your thoughts on how both of them got their feelings across, and as I see Ryan commented, it is great that there was no forced forgiveness, nor condemnation for forgiveness not being given. A lot happened in the episode leading into the finale. Like you said, Maya can’t turn down her grandmother’s gorgeous sartorial efforts. I love you wanting more of Biscuits, knew you’d like the Lion King reference. Now you mention it, Billy Jack has been a mite sparse as of late. Maybe the writers are cat people like myself. Another lovely Echo reaction that was much appreciated, Jess. And again, I hope you’re feeling much better, if not, I hope you will feel better soon. Take care of yourself, Jess.

Thomas Corp
>>127900491

I actually haven’t seen any adaptation of The Color Purple, nor have I read the book. The topic of forgiveness, I abhor when it’s simplistically treated; when the narrative deals in absolutes about it. One does have to take into consideration what the act is that the person is or is not forgiving. Like you said, it is a button when there is condemnation of those who refuse to forgive. It’s great in, if you’ve ever seen it, Philomena, where there is the forgiveness given to that which was unforgivable, and the character makes clear that the forgiveness is not given “just like that”, it is tremendously difficult for her to forgive. To your one point, it is a strength of the show’s writing and Tantoo’s performance of Chula, that it is superbly conveyed that forgiveness from Maya, Chula herself doesn't seem to expect it or think she has any right to it; it is something she’d probably only ever dream could happen. I always have the thought too that even if one is forgiven, there remains the question of can one forgive oneself. Here, it gives the impression that perhaps Chula can never forgive herself, and like Jess said once, I believe related to when she reacted to Encanto, sometimes you don’t have to forgive yourself.

Ryan
>>127918496

Honestly one of the best creative decisions in the Daredevil show was not trying to put any kind of twist into Kingpin's backstory. Instead you're just left thinking "Yeah, that's pretty much the childhood I would expect a guy like this to have had."

Ryan
>>127918496

This also isn't the same hammer from the Daredevil flashback scene (which oddly enough appeared in the trailer for Echo but isn't in the show itself). The usual freaks made a big deal about how this supposedly shows the crew didn't care about getting it right, but I find it perfectly in character that he'd just get a random hammer and tell people it's the same one after he didn't think to hang onto it as a kid.

Thomas Corp
>>127918496

Like I said, haven’t seen Daredevil the series with Vincent as Kingpin, so I just assumed it was the same hammer, though yeah, that would be in character for him to pick up a random hammer and say it was the one that he killed his father with.

sesskasays
>>127918496

If I can just add......all of Daredevil is phenomenal. But Daredevil Season Three specifically is something I have rewatched very often since reacting to it. And I rarely revisit stuff I react to (just sometimes reminds me of work now). Charlie is beyond impressive and the supporting cast including Fisk is phenomenal. I highly recommend.

Thomas Corp
>>127918496

I probably would have watched Daredevil when it aired, particularly for Vincent as Kingpin, were it not for the fact that I did not have access to Netflix when it premiered any of the three seasons. I do recall, Jess, how you’ve spoken highly of the show. The third season especially, I know you’ve mentioned revisiting that season many times. Thus, going by at least the praise you’ve given it, I do have high hopes that I’d enjoy it.

Ryan
>>127918496

One caveat is that Season 3 was after The Defenders, and very much assumes you've seen it.

Ed Green
>>127900491

I don't seem to share definition of forgiveness. I think it's possible to forgive someone and still want nothing more to do with them, still acknowledge their behaviour was appalling, still want them to go to prison if to do so would benefit society or make you feel safe from them. Giles on Buffy once described forgiveness as 'an act of compassion done not because people deserve it but because they need it'. I'd go further than that. I'd describe it as an act of compassion towards yourself. As Marty Hart said 'I don't hold grudges; I believe that leads to cancer.' I don't believe that, but I do believe it feels better to forgive, if you can, than to not. I don't condemn those who can't forgive, but I do feel sad for them.

Mister Lou

I forgot the dog's called Billy Jack! I thought you were wishing for more cameos by "Willie Jack"! a very funny breakout from Reservation Dogs, she's hilarious. PLEASE get around to checking out Smoke Signals. a lot of great native actors from this are in that. INCLUDING Echo's cousin, he played Young Victor, very young, you might not even recognize them as the same person. Kinda like Will Wheaton from Stand By Me and Will Wheaton in Big Bang Theory.