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Summon Sign, Episode 68 | The Last of Us Part II: Overrated or Overhated? (Patreon)

Published:
2025-04-15 16:00:20
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

This week, Lock and Jimmy join Brad to discuss The Last of Us Part II, South of Midnight, Ready or Not, and more!

Please note the Last of Us section contains some spoilers.

Timestamps:0:00:00 - Intro

0:06:45 - Marathon impressions

0:18:55 - The Last of Us Part 2 (CONTAINS SOME SPOILERS)

0:52:21 - Ready or Not

1:03:45 - South of Midnight

1:17:14 - Sort It Out/Keep It Up

1:41:19 - Uncharted 4

1:56:45 - Donkey Kong Country Returns HD

2:10:03 - Ending Questions

Files

Comments

Drew

Genius but with downs

It's both overrated and over hated at the same time. It's a great game sure but the people who ride it's dick so hard (Colin) and the people who think it's the worst thing ever are insane

caswellow

I have a feeling you guys are gonna piss me off with this one. LoU 2 is the GOAT.

BigDumbStupidIdiot

I knew LTOU2's story was going to be super ass as soon as I heard the phrase "bigot sandwich." That's Dragon Age: The Veilguard levels of dog shit writing

mudder12

It’s Underrated and Overrated it’s kinda become a series that grifters attack for various stupid reasons that have very little to do with the actual game itself. The story has pacing issues, the themes are very heavy handed. But those complaints are over shadowed by the loud minority barking about Lesbians. I personally think it’s one of the best games ever made, I just connect my relationship with my mother to Ellie and Joel’s relationship in the game and it will always be one of my favorite games for that reason, and the gameplay is the best ND has ever done imo. This is the beautiful thing about art though, everyone takes something different from it. But this game just seems to drag extreme opinions from both sides. I suppose there is also a conversation to be had about the leaks kinda leading to the modern era of toxicity in gaming. Without the leaks I believe the narrative about this game is a little bit different.

Dustin's furry little wheener

Lock probably doesn’t remember this, but he once gifted me a 3-month sub on Dustin’s Twitch channel (back when Dustin still streamed from time to time). We were chatting in Flemish for a while until Dustin noticed and told us to stop using that "foreign language" on his stream. Haha! Anyway, great to hear Lock’s reaction to The Last of Us Part II — keep up the awesome work!

Troy C

I saw the gameplay overview of Marathon. I’m kind of hyped for it because the only shooter I’ve played over the last 5-7 years has been The Finals (shoutout to the write-in). I know we definitely need to see more, but some of the people hating on the game maybe need to accept that they need to take breaks from FPS. And yes, that is me making a distinction between criticism and hate. Edit: glad someone wrote in about this. I knew I wasn’t the only one.

Theotokos Respecter

The gameplay is world class, the story however, is BOLLOCKS

Troy C

Also, so glad to hear lock’s opinion on TLOU2. I only have played it once, but the No Return mode is godlike. Also, I fucking love Abby. I think the end is the way it is because like lock says, they broke the cycle and the world of the game is bleak as hell.

Breno Bezerra Bluhm

Most definetly over hated. Never saw such hate for a game pre-release. Had the privilege of playing it without spoilers and to this day it’s still a top 3 game of all time and my favorite Naughty Dog game. Replayed it for the first time this year and it holds really well in all aspects.

Tyler Stafford

I appreciate the different opinions of TLOU2 but I feel Jimmy is just too dismissive of Ellies story.

BigDumbStupidIdiot

Please don't make me dust off my college journalist hat and write a 10,000 word plus essay about why LTOU2's story is ass. My sanity can't take it

IronLion44

I didn’t feel the earthquake either Brad):

Izzy Smalls

Anyone who sums up TLOU2s story as "revenge is bad" missed the fcking poit

Russell Robinson

It's funny that the Tommy boss fight is mentioned here considering Colin forgot who the Sniper was on the 7 hour discussion. He even brought it up annoyed people kept telling him he forgot. It was a good 7 hour talk, it's just ironic the biggest defender forgot something I consider pretty important. He tried to downplay it hard on the SS plus Last of Us premier talk. It's okay to admit it Colin.😆

BigDumbStupidIdiot

I'll mow my neighbor's lawn in your honor after I fell you in soy bean field 🫡

Sucking Duck for Quack

I’m sorry but if you’re opinion on TLOU2 is “revenge is bad is stupid”, you’re pretty bad at dissecting media and understanding it lol

Lockmort

Hooooo, I remember now haha! That's a long time ago! Great to hear from you again, man! <3 Lock

Dante B

I love TLOU 1 and 2. Among the best games I’ve played. And I hope I never hear anyone talk about them again. I’m spent.

Bartevious

Tyler, can you provide more context in some of these rebuttals? Is he wrong that the phrase “bigot sandwich” is in the game? Is he wrong for thinking that’s poor writing? Or is he wrong because it’s a strawman argument? Wrong because it’s not indicative of overall writing quality in the game?

aspeckt112

I’m genuinely so curious about how they handle Season 2 and 3 of TLOU show - because I think the gameplay is great, I think the story is great, but I think the message of the story is massively juxtaposed by how much fun it is to turn people’s limbs into a paste. In a show, where I can sit back and uncomfortably observe? Bring it on.

Adam Martinez

NakeyJakey’s video on TLOU2 sums up my thoughts exactly on my gripes with the game. Easily one of the most disappointing games I’ve ever played. Excited for Intergalactic though!

twodaydrunk

Fun episode as always, boys. (POTENTIAL TLOU2 SPOILERS) I’m not saying Brad or Jimmy have to like the story or ending of TLoU II, but they are misunderstanding what it’s about—it’s not about revenge and resolution through getting it, it’s about anger through regret and learning to let it go, which becomes apparent with the porch scene Lock talked about. Having it resolve through exacting revenge would undercut Ellie’s character arch.

Adam Martinez

Agreed. And what’s even worse than the story is the pacing. That mid-game cliff hanger took out all the momentum for me

NUTSO JIMBO

Like Colin, I have a thick veiny hard on for the game. It's got my favourite third person gunplay, incredible graphics and I agree entirely with Lock - the storyline is WAY better the second time through.

Connor

The game is pretty genius for the fact that it has basically divided the fanbase in half on its story. I, for one, don’t care for it all but others think its a masterpiece and I guess that’s the point.

NUTSO JIMBO

Loved hearing Lock's opinion on TLOU2! I followed the exact same trajectory in opinion on TLOU Part 2. My second play through on the PS5 last year was so much better than my original PS4 play through in 2020. I now think it surpasses the original. What a masterpiece.

BigDumbStupidIdiot

Abby needed a story section before Ellie's. She was already in the hole after Ellie's and ND worked overtime to get you to care about Abby's team. I went from not caring about them to hating every single one of them

PairOfShuse

Haha I love that Brad went down the rabbit hole on Jeffrey Hudson. Good stuff. When I learned about him, I was crying form laughing so hard. I’m in the camp that The Last of Us 2 (and the last of us in general) is both underrated and overrated. The first game is done well but the story telling isn’t anything that hasn’t been done in the walking dead. The Last of Us 2 has great gameplay and looks good, while the story is mixed IMO. Abby is unrealistic as a character in the apocalypse. You’d need access to tons of protein on a consistent basis to keep up that physique in a man let alone a woman, without steroids (while still needing all the protein etc). But as a character, she is way better than Ellie in the second game. Abby’s friends are all annoying as hell and horrible people. Ellie complains about being read to patrol etc and when you finally see her get to, she gets high and IMO if she didn’t, could potentially have saved Joel from being killed. She just drops the ball many times and is extremely selfish and childish. The whole Lev storyline is out of place for the game IMO. No one would be worrying about that stuff and if you did, you wouldn’t be long for a harsh world. I personally feel like the person who got the worst of everything was Tommy. I never hear this position though talked about. His brother was killed, he took up arms on his own essentially, and took out many of the people himself that Ellie was going after, he got physically messed up in some ways and what did he get for it? Ungrateful behavior from Ellie. I wanted Ellie to get annihilated when there was a part of the game where I believe someone mentions you should go meet up with Tommy and either team up or see if he’s ok and Ellie essentially is like fuck him, I have my own plans. He did more for her than anyone else in the game for nothing, in my eyes. But overall I’m glad I played them. There are some “woke” things in the game and some cringe in them as well but it’s not egregious nor ruins either game. Both sides have their points but both sides tend to go harder than it deserves. Locke I think confirmed he worked in tandem with Jean Claude 😅

Guybrush Threepwood

Dude I can't believe they offered brad his money back when he cancelled gamepass. what kind of business model is that? Write-in around 1 hour 26 min mark I really agreed with that person. I do not understand spending time in spaces just to shit on things I don't like. Its much more fun to spend time in places where I like the thing.

Bisexual Lighting Rigger

I just started South Of Midnight. The vibes are great but I can tell its like a worse Evil West. Same type of structure but less gameplay more lore/world elements.

Mr. Scott If You're Nasty

Respectfully, I don't think TLOU2 is a masterpiece at all. Ellie's campaign is repetitive and way, way too long. Didn't like the transition to Abby's playthrough, although Abby's campaign is a lot better. What I remember of Ellie's "boss" fights were quick time events that were uninteresting. The inventory management system is slow, cumbersome, and un-evolved from the first game. The aiming/shooting still shows that Naughty Dog jank where they can't quite make it feel right. Lastly, was the writing and characters. I thought the writing went down in quality. Especially, where they set up the events with Joel. Could have done that character right, but instead we got sitcom setup. The characters, again aside from Joel, were unlikable as all hell. I'm sorry. For me, not even close to a masterpiece. You shouldn't have to play a game twice to get there, if in fact it's a masterpiece. Anyways, respect your opinions and can see the other side as the game is extremely gorgeous and there are a lot of things to like Skill up summed up this games perfectly.

DonglerofThaShnutz

Im so tired of hearing about TLOU. This is like the 4th podcast this week about it. SS, SS+ about the show, Summon Sign, AND the 7hr deep dive. I normally listen to SS and Summon Sign. I dip in and out of SS+ depending on the content so i had to skip those two this week. All i’m saying is it’s a bit too much.

Uvula Smack

It was so weird seeing the trans flags all over Seattle. Like I understand that Seattle is pretty liberal but I dont even remember that flag existing in 2013.

Michael McCoy

Isn’t that the point? You’re supposed to hate Abby and co when the game forces you to play as her, you aren’t supposed to feel conflicted about it. Then over time you’re supposed to come around and see Abby’s POV. Obviously whether or not you do end up caring about her is subjective

KillnStrangers

Ellie doesn’t know what loss is??? Really?

Lunar Tear

Shout to Lock and his cat. My cat, who I adopted during the pandemic shortly after finishing TLoU2, is also named Ellie. Shout out the the cat Ellies of the world.

Nat Patterson

Jimmy’s TLOU2 take kinda sucks imo. What’s his take on Silent Hill 2? Arguably the most pretentious horror game of all time

NUTSO JIMBO

Yeah and it definitely worked a lot better at doing that second time around. First time I remember being a bit annoyed that I couldn't kill her at the end. Second time through I actually think I preferred Abby to Ellie...

Vladimir Grabbinmikov

How is it genius for one side of the fanbase to feel like they just played a 20hr last Jedi?

Michael Hebert

I kept hearing Jimmy’s name on other last stand stuff, but this is the first time I’ve heard him speak. I can most accurately describe his opinions as a cavalcade of complete L’s. I have never seen a more concentrated series of dog water takes in any podcast/video/ piece of media. I’m sure he’s a fine person and he seems like he’d be pleasant to speak with, but our thoughts on games cannot be further off. I will never watch anything where he is featured again.

Michael Hebert

Completely agree, I like Brad, but I totally disagree with his take

NeO JD

Brad, I did end up turning off combat in South of Midnight eventually. 😅 Ended up giving it a 3/5. Sucks hearing about Huber not being able to be on especially since he tweeted about having to borrow money for rent. I really wish him the best. We need him in the industry and on a better team.

Gooch Gobbler

I've played the game twice and never noticed these flags a single time lol I reeeeeaaaally took my time with my second playthrough as well

David P

So much TLOU this week.. I liked both games and had fun but I personally just can't find it in me to see them as anything close to a masterpiece.

MISZCZOGRZMOT

Yeah, ND has lost it when it comes to making fun games - they're focused on cinematic storytelling, pacing be damned. They'll lock you into forced walking for 10% of the game, they'll make 40% of the levels strictly story levels where you do nothing but walk from point A to point B listening to exposition and watching cut-scenes along the way to move the plot forward. Then there's the choppy nature of the story and structure of TLOU2, which clearly came out of cuts late into the dev process. It was supposed to be open world or open zone at first, then it pivoted into a linear game with onpy remnants being the first semi open levels. The ending in Santa Barbara was supposed to be longer, the Scar priestess was supposed to be fleshed out more, and it went nowhere - you can just feel how some levels had to be scrapped or shuffled around and how they connected what was left by either an ambush(there's like 10 in the game with a fade to black to the next level), or characters making weird decissions out of the blue, usually negating their development up to that point. When I say characters, it's mostly Ellie - she comes off as bipolar and stupid by the end (she changed her mind on wether she wanted to kill Abby or not 8 times - I counted), by constantly killing people by accident, leaving the map to her location at the murder scene, etc. Only a few characters are properly developed, have a background, or any character traits - you try to deacribe their character by what they're about excluding what they look like or what they did, and you're going to draw a blank most of the time. The post-apocalytpic zombie setting is wasted, this story of 3 warring factions could've played out in like a Far Cry game. They kept beating the revenge is a vicious cycle drum over your head way past the point where everyone already got it. They force you to do initiate certain things or events, like killing/torturing Nora, just so they can make you feel bad about your choice later on, but it's not only transparent in what they're trying to do, it's clumsy, and you can't really make a different choice - you're locked in in this linear story, so it doesn't really work. Same goes for killing a dog in a QTE, and then playing fetch with it as Abby in a flashback, or other stuff. It's often being praised for its incredible level of detail, too, but I found it very inconsistent, too - you can see the interiors of vans strewned around, but later in the game they have a black flat texture for windows, so they're just a low-poly cube. The clothes in Joel's home react to you and have some physics applied to them, but the clothes hanging from racks in WLF cantina seem to be made out of metal. You can smash every piece of windows, glass, and enter any shop earlier on, but later there's again just a flat texture and you can't even see the interior. Gameplay is fine, bit it can't sustain a 25hr-long game. Tlou 2 is paced badly, it's too long, it has like 4 moments where it could've(or even should've) ended, and yet it keeps on going - something the Return of the King, for instancem is constantly being bashed for. It was obviously cut to the point where the original concept got lost, and the story kinda stopped working - It should've ended on the farm. All that said, it still had incredible production values and industry-leading facial animation, for instance. Just wish there was more of a coherent game attached to it.

MISZCZOGRZMOT

In terms of why some people don't like UC4 much, it might come down to what I think about it - horrendous pacing, huge empty open spaces that contribute to bad pacing and boredom, and overreliance on forced walking + one-off walking simulator story levels to tell the story in an interactive medium(all of young Drake levels fall in that category, but there are more levels like that). The combat is, again, paced badly, cause there's only like 25 combat encounters in the entire 20-25hr-long game(all counted and available in the main menu). 1 combat encounter per hour would've been fine, but it's spaced out unevenly, so it's more like 4 hours of auto-climbing, walking and talking, so you're bored, then 2-3 encounters in a row, they drag on too much(roughly an hour on normal difficulty setting), so you're getting bored of it again, and then it's back to 3-4 hours of climbing, walking, and talking. Then the ending has like 10 combat encounters in a row, which gets exhausting, too. The story is just a rehash of the plot points from previous games - another lost city, Nate dragging Sully to his death on their adventures, etc. It has the most popular default happy ending, too (think Naruto, Bleach, Harry Potter), where the protagonist's offspring takes on their mantle - nothing wrong with that in a pulpy story like this, per se, but it's hard to get excited about it, or see people crying over how amazing it is. Did I mention it takes 4hours before you get full control over Nate? Before that it's just cut-scenes, swimming, walking, talking, climbing, QTE melee combat, and a super brief lame turret-like shootout on the boat. I bought it excited at launch, started it in the evening, and I didn't even get to the actual gameplay before I had to shut it off. There are like 3 exciting setpieces in the entire game, and the best one was already shown at E3. ND lost the plot when it comes to gameplay - they should just make movies at this point. The last great Uncharted game was UC2. I'd personally take the Vita game (which I had the plat in) over UC3 or UC4(which incidentally I had the plats in, too). Lost Legacy (made by a different team) was good, too, but it's because the story wasn't as intrusive there. Sometimes I really think that someone should lock them in a room with nothing to play but Half-Life games, and Bioshock, so they can see what seamless, unintrusive, storytelling looks like, and remind them what medium they work in. But, hey, it's just my opinion. I can see people liking this if they can stomach a telltale game+shooter hybrid. I personally prefer either a slower paced game, or an action game - an action game that slows down to a crawl constantly is too much for me.

Black Detective in Dexter

It's crazy. I plan on playing Doom Dark Ages and Atomfall for free in May using this method. I'm happy to pay the 12 bucks to essentially rent these games for a month, but if they want to give me my money back when I cancel, that's on them.

Bailey Callis

I wish there was a voice for people that don't like the game. I feel like everyone tip toes around Colin with tlou2