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Sacred Symbols, Episode 425 | Am I More Than You Bargained For Yet? (Patreon)

Published:
2026-08-21 16:00:23
Imported:
2026-08
Tags:

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Content

Sony's mishandling of its games-as-a-service initiative is well-worn territory here on Sacred Symbols, but that doesn't mean the fallout doesn't persist. This time around, Guerrilla's new multiplayer title Horizon: Hunters Gathering is the focal point. Based on recent reporting, it appears Sony is having the dev team rework the game to remove live service and other persistent elements, and its fate will be decided by December, with cancellation still very much on the table. Bungie and Marathon, Haven and Fairgames, Firewalk and Concord, Naughty Dog and The Last of Us Online, the Deviation-turned-Dark Outlaw project, Bluepoint and God of War Online, a cancelled multiplayer Spider-Man game at Insomniac, Twisted Metal never getting far off the ground at Lucid... Truly, it's enough already. Plus: Until Dawn star Hayden Panettiere sadly passes away at 37 years old, Grand Theft Auto VI suffers a catastrophic leak, Hiroko Totoki talks to the Wall Street Journal about Sony's move away from tech and towards entertainment, Square Enix swears Kingdom Hearts IV will launch in 2027, and more. Then: Listener inquiries! Is Naughty Dog's high-caliber approach ultimately unsustainable? Have we lost sight of the reality of how bad the experience of using physical media actually is? How can we both run Sacred Symbols effectively while ignoring the endless, persistent, and unrealistic negativity? Will Colin ultimately push Dustin over the line by insisting he's Japanese?

Timestamps:

0:00 - Intro

39:18 - Shoutout to Chris and Porter

50:08 - "Dustin is Japanese"

52:26 - Drinking in the pool

1:03:09 - Digital ownership brother in arms

1:09:27 - RIP Hayden Panettiere

1:15:08 - GTAVI Leaks

1:44:20 - Horizon: Hunters Gathering is being reworked

2:28:31 - Hiroki Totoki Literature Club interview

2:42:15 - Sony's shovelware purge gone wrong?

2:55:21 - Kingdom Hearts IV releases late 2027

3:01:28 - Terranigma port

3:05:32 - Pulse Elevate speakers coming in November

3:07:53 - Call of Duty beta includes campaign level

3:09:44 - Simpsons Hit and Run returns?

3:14:25 - July US sales data

3:18:42 - What We're Playing (Beast of Reincarnation, Spider-Man 2, Mortal Shell 2)

3:40:39 - Toxic fandoms

3:56:42 - Enshittification across media

4:06:53 - Curbing your expectations

4:20:17 - Is Naughty Dog unsustainable?

4:24:14 - Is America AAA game dev dead?

4:30:34 - Was physical media a nightmare?

Comments

Christian

The Fall Out Boy title. That song is a banger. ❤️

AL022

I get excited every time I actually understand the title reference without google.

Daniel Mitchell

Thank you! Normally these mean nothing to me, but this one tickled something in the back of my brain, and I couldn't place it.

StewDog

Really loving the amount of girth on this episode

Walk Forward Cutscene

Kept the runtime just under 5 hours out of respect for Jayden Daniels

Alan

Oh that’s a big boy

Tortilla_the_Hun

Hey, why don't I just go eat some hay, make things out of clay, lay by the bay? I just may. Whaddya say?

Brian

What is Dustin's letterbox score for Coco?

Jacob Lesperance

Flying in to a different state early, within the same country just to acclimate to the food, of said country.... Lmfao. It may be the most insane thing I have ever heard.

Frank G.

🙄 let's see how much defense, for A billion dollar company this has.

ShotUncleBen

Love how Chris is harassed for never having opening remarks, meanwhile Dustin brings his topic just to be immediately ignored because of Colin's autism lol

Jason Rose

Balls in play ladies and gentlemen.

Jason Rose

If you know Quintet and why this Terranigma shit matters, you know ball.

brian o neill

It hasn’t shown up on my pocket cast app yet 🫣

They Now Call Me UNC.

People are so comfortable in their echo chambers that they refuse to listen to an opposing opinion.

Frank G.

Its so interesting how much people love to curry favor for rich people they'll never meet, for free.

Chris Evans

This is always the most whiney entitled retort. You do realize nobody owes you anything right?

Frank G.

Who's asking for anything

Frank G.

Aaaah. Fuck! 🤑🥕🛫

LordScottrick

I was born in 85 and had the full Toys R Us experience. With that being said, Colin describing the experience to Chris and Dustin still gives me “sure grandpa, let’s get you to bed” vibes 😅

ChaosZwei+5

The gta hacker is an absolute badass leaking so much of this game and getting a bag off it hats off to them. Meanwhile all the rockstar shill accounts are melting down over it acting like bro killed somebody

Mr Worry

Same I tried redoing and no luck. Hate having to come here to listen

TheWubbz

Chris you will love space marine 2 and it’s nice and short. Will give you that gears fix

ChaosZwei+5

Fr Buncha bootlickers out there glad to see a massive corpo lose billions in stock value. Anybody sticking it to the man in such a practical noticeable way gets my respect. Wish stuff like this happened more.

ChaosZwei+5

"Here's a video game and they're doing things I don't like so I'm gonna steal it" you forgot to attach the gigachad image

BigDumbStupidIdiot

PlayStation going balls deep for live-service is the equivalent of pulling your 401K and yoloing it into penny stocks and shitcoins. Ya, you could be lucky and make unfathomable money. More likely than not, you're going to lose it all.

Brian Syrett

Thanks for reading my question! Great show as always. I just want to be clear, my question about negativity was in no way aimed at you guys and the show, I love the balance you guys manage to strike and I find it to be honest and fair. Really I'm just tired of the seemingly unrelenting nature of it in the wider space as a whole, and that's not just exclusive to video games. But I've been trying more in little ways to put a little more positivity where I feel like I can, and putting a few stones on the other side of the scale.

ChaosZwei+5

My gaming hot take is that mortal shell 2 is a much better take on open world souls than Elden ring. Absolutely phenomenal experience so far might just end up being my fav souls game period highly recommend.

Screwed Mcfucked

About simulating domestic violence in Simpson's Hit & Run, apparently one of the first things Matt Groening did when they had him try the game for the first time was kick Marge. And he found it hilarious. Or so I've heard.

Nuke

Chris is right, Matt Groenings last name is pronounced Gray-Ning

LordScottrick

Colin saying that GTA most likely won’t have twists or spoilers on par with The Last of Us is a bold statement after the masterpiece of a story that was Red Dead Redemption 2. I know that GTA tends towards the more comical side of things, but there could definitely be some major twists. Also it’s entirely possible for previous characters to show up again. Tommy Vercetti could still be alive for example. GTA IV had some graffiti stating that he was dead, but Rockstar apparently confirmed that was tongue in cheek.

LordScottrick

Replying to my own comment since I can’t scroll down far enough in my edit: I will note that they would need a new VA for Tommy Vercetti if he makes an appearance (RIP Ray Liotta)

Cameron Sturre

Colin, it was STARSHIP, not Jefferson Starship who did, “we built this city”

Whiner

Colin is kidding himself if he thinks this show doesn’t reflect the negativity of the gaming space in anyway they are heavily influenced by by the conversation on twitter

Your Boi Nicky V

Naughty Dog's last two games were 8s, if that 😁.

Matt Wiles

My friend worked with Herman Holst and Jim Ryan at PlayStation. He reckons Herman is really good. The real deal. But that Jim was an absolute dickhead. He now works for Sega and leads the outsourced dev team, working on Alien Isolation 2. Anyway, he’s a great talker and chatty, British, but doesn’t play video games, which is really interesting. Let me know if you fancy a chat with him.

Vladimir Grabbinmikov

Cuck ray gun running defense for gay, quirkchungus shit in films, shows and games in the enshittification segment. Didn’t see it coming.

Ryan

Great analogy!

They Now Call Me UNC.

He cares so much about NY politics but had no idea there was a mayoral election in his city 😆

Ser Gahndo

Knowers of ball have entered the comments

Yet

BRING ON THE LEAKSSSSS #TEAMLEEK

MambaForever

As a LSU fan, thank you for this. 🤣

Walk Forward Cutscene

During the WSB mania 5 years ago I stupidly asked TDAmeritrade if my retirement plan allowed me to buy options(thankfully not). I could tell the guy who answered my call wanted to strangle me through the phone lmao

Izzy Smalls

Dustin definetly knows how negativity leads to views. BY FAR his biggest vid was him shitting on the PS5 Pro lol if he ever bothered to make a follow up vid on how PSSR has improved no one would give af

Lunar Tear

Dustin really throwing around his weight at the end with the physical/retro media discussion. Nodding along listening while I'm playing a rom hack of a fanmade Zelda game, on cartdidge, on my original N64 and CRT from my childhood.

Frank G.

I mean GTA is gonna be fine, don't know why people have to tie everything to entitlement to physical games. Even if thats why the leeker claims he's doing it for. But whether he or she or bot is doing it for attention or money its also entertaining, but the type of against the grain entertainment we really need. And sprinkled with some destruction? People like underdogs.

BigNateDogg

In case anyone else is autistic and wanted to know regarding the guy who stole $200,000 from a bank in 1968… that is equivalent to $1,919,069 in today’s money. That is all.

JoshM

I want to say Colin was referring to the idea that no one has any pre existing investment in these characters like you’d have with sequels in other long running franchises, not inherently that it wouldn’t have twists that could evoke a surprising response

LordScottrick

Fair point. I retract my statement if that’s what he meant.

Tony G

For some reason this one isn't showing in my RSS feed in YouTube Music.

E_DOUBLE

Not in my YouTube Music RSS feed either. The whole channel disappeared I had to re add it manually again and this episode is missing

NeO JD

Should be illegal. 😅

NeO JD

Everybody wants to shit on Herman now but I feel like it all started with Jim.

NeO JD

Did Micah write the title this time? To Dustin’s question about Hunters Gathering: it wasn’t the online part, just the overall direction. Art and gameplay. Col, it doesn’t play like Horizon at all. I don’t think it survives. Chris’ point about why don’t the physical lovers gather physically was great. I like Rings of Power. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Like Chris mentioned, people are lost in the sauce and are just saying shit to capitalize. There’s less hype and more negativity and it’s sad.

The Comedian

Sony themselves published a game called pinball heros that they released on PlayStation Plus classics. I earned the platinum in less than an hour. Under 2 hours for both ps4 and ps5 versions

Dustin Furman

I did make a follow up video and no one cared. You don’t see me making constant negative videos though. Only when deserved. :)

ADavidToRemember

Y'all broke the RSS feeds for YT Music. It's not updating what you all are releasing atm

zepplinmike

The conversations towards the end about fandom being overly cynical and apocalyptic is interesting considering that’s how I feel every time Colin begins a rant about how dead Star Wars is, including in this very conversation. I say this as someone who classifies the sequel trilogy as “fan fiction” in my head so as to ignore its existence (which if you look at current franchise management I don’t think I’m alone in that). I understand Colin in particular is very averse to the kind of “choose your own canon” and is also very all or nothing about pretty much everything, but I get really irked even so when he declares the franchise totally ruined but refuses to engage with the many good things coming out for it all the time. It’s fine to not have interest but the declarative statements from a place of intentional ignorance is what is annoying and feels exactly like the online gaming criticism being talked about here. Also I have news that isn’t really news: Star Wars has been a very mixed bag its entire existence. Complaining about the dumb parts while continuing to grab onto the good stuff is simply what being a Star Wars fan is and has been since the release of RotJ.

Virgin Barry

Seriously, they can barely go a segment without creating a strawman from Smash JT’s YouTube chat to argue against. I personally wish there was way less of that style of conversation on the show.

Zixten Larsson

On the topic of Mortal Shell 2: Everytime I catapult my inverse immolated skeletal self from the main hub tower to the Outskirts of Mammon I get the urge to throw on "Parabola" by Tool becsuse of the visuals... it's also kinda ironic that you die over and over during the suicide runs and yet I'm... choosing to be here in... this body. Holding me. I'm not alone in this body either... forever accompanied by the memories of the previous owner fighting a literal giant bottle of moonshine.

Dr. N-Word Cortex

They missed something very important about the Peter Pan “carries a knife” scenario… Did they forget he frequents LONDON of all places?! The knife is a default loadout!

Supes

yeah. I think what he really meant was "I don't feel the same negativity about games that many others seem to these days," which is true. But at the same time, if you're constantly bringing up the negative opinions of others (even if it's just to say they're wrong), you're still kind of perpetuating/feeding into the negative discourse. honestly, I think Colin brings up these ridiculous Twitter opinions and negative takes for a very simple reason: because they make for good conversation fodder for a podcast. And that's okay- the dude talks for a living, so when you're on a rant or whatever I can understand why you'd reach for those kinds of easy-target takes as ammunition. But it's definitely far from "how most people feel" or whatever. You can find any wack-ass take you want on Twitter if you look hard enough, doesn't mean their opinion is popular, meaningful, or worth talking about.

Spike Sméagol

“The only reason he still draws breath is because I have a job to do” 😂😂

Glen Yelenovic

Just wait Dustin, you will have Daniel Tiger on the TV for Leon before you know it

Glen Yelenovic

I think the digital games ownership topic and speaking with congress might be the perfect reason for Rogan to want Colin back on the show

Save The Game Media

The write in about physical at the end was just someone admitting they didn’t take care of their things. I had N64 carts, game discs, CDs - my stuff worked, always - I took care of my things. Always put them back in their case, didn’t spill things on them or scratch them. People just don’t take care of things well

Michael Hebert

Common Dustin L-take regarding Yotei, that game rips

AL022

It's probably more akin to taking your own retirement savings and putting it into your own business vs investing in index funds. As Colin discusses regularly, it's a proven method of making reliable money (Roblox, Fortnite, CoD, etc.). It's not entirely unproven, just much riskier. There's a difference between always being dumb (your example) and being a risky option but mismanaged. It could have gone well if better managed, but didn't.

They Now Call Me UNC.

Haven’t played it but aint no way this is a factual statement…

ChaosZwei+5

Ur right bc it's an opinionated statement

Tyler

Fuck dude on point title

Tommy the sniper

Man I loved Starhawk, had so much fun with the multiplayer.

Pan Ic

Why are these guys clowning on the GTA hacker? Dude a hero smh.

Wayde

By your metric Colin Light in the Darkness is shovelware. It takes a few hours to beat and get the platinum

TL

I’ve been away while still paying, but I’m trying to get back into listening now. Long ass ep 😂.

Fotis Lyto

Man people bitching every week about the "negativity" in the gaming space are so annoying, and Coling saying "if you don't like it go do something else" is the most annoying. Yet they never ask why is there negativity and, more importantly, why are some games getting mostly positive feedback. Nobody talks shit about stellar blade, or mortal shell 2. There are some very specific games people shit on and there is a reason. And it is not only about woke, BG3 is super woke yet it gets constant praise by everyone. There is a reason specific games get negativity and it is because of missed potential for stupid reasons. You could have a game with hot characters and there is no reason not to. Yeah not all games should have sexy women but why? The point is why shouldn't they? You can create anything you want in a game and you choose lameness and ugliness. You remove something cool and you replace it with something lame.

Kid-Organic

4:38:50 This why Dustin is The GOAT

Bailey Callis

He can be surprisingly un self aware

Marco Maluf

I see Colin reflecting the sony mentality many times “you don’t like, go play something else”. “digital is way better, i would change to digital as a child, in a heartbeat” So disconnected from a considerable part of the gamers today, no wonder he doesn’t understand the negativity towards shitty games and the importance of physical media, Dustin told many important aspects of physical media.