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Guardians of the Galaxy (Patreon)

Published:
2017-08-31 03:19:47
Imported:
2026-06

Content

I'm not sure how to pre-empt this one except for with an apology - this was supposed to come two weeks ago, and it didn't. And I have no explanation for that other than... I just wasn't happy with the episode, and I kept working on it.

Oh, and there is also a THE WHOLE PLATE episode I was also working on, and it's coming out tomorrow.

If you follow me on Twitter, you know that a huge part of the delay for this episode is YouTube's SHOCKING new copyright algorithm - it would fucking figure that the first video where I consciously decide not to show my face would also be this post H3H3 lawsuit world where WOW all of a sudden, copyright bots are like a THE LEGEND OF ZELDA: BREATH OF THE WILD metaphor that I cut out of this episode.

You know, the guardians? The ones with the legs that hunt you down? Well, anyway...

I'm uploading this at 11:14 PM EST, and I'm working on the next TWP ep to go up before midnight tomorrow. And I feel, well, yikes about this because, if nothing else, it's not terribly professional. Moreover, given how long this episode has taken (I've been writing it since the movie came out) one would think I'd be at least okay with it, but, no. 

I'm hoping that y'all, the people who are funding this venture, get more gratification from this episode than I did.

Woof.

Files

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Comments

Greho

I know all of this was forever ago, but Peter’s relationship with Gamora was cut short, and he goes through yet more trauma, and then is confronted with Gamora 2.0. We’re left with him trying to date a ghost. That’s pretty dark.

Kiva and Emy

I'd much rather you continuously rework something until it's something you like then put up something you're not proud of. Keep up the good work!

Tales from the jar side

Excellent and insightful as usual. Btw, the term I often use for toxic masculinity is "testosterone poisoning", sometimes augmented by "severe case of". Great job.

Henry Kathman

Holy Shit, this was so well done. I can't imagine how difficult discussing this might have been, but I really appreciate your insight.

Tara Niendorff

This was so good! Your reviews always make me think about movies in ways I hadn't considered before. Thank you for sharing with us and posting this, It was very thought provoking and insightful.

Mel Vitta

I'm sorry this caused you so much hell to produce. For the record it is very good. This is one to share with friends and family, people who aren't even into YouTube film analysis.

SpookyQuill

I've seen Spider-Man: Homecoming four times in theaters (so far) because those movies are to me what Transformers is to you. Spider-Man is like a template for how I learned to consume media. That being said I will undoubtedly without question say that GotG 2 was the better film because the last act in particular is a satisfying accumulation of the characters' relationships with each other in the grand scheme of things. Peter's relationship with his Ego is particularly interesting to me, an adopted child, because he was suddenly introduced to an entirely new way of understanding who he is and what he could be as a person in contrast to who he already was. There are psychological components in all of these relationships that I think everyone can relate to, and I think one reason why a lot of people hemmed-and-hawed over this film was because it dared to make you think about those kind of relationships as opposed to just being a goofy space romp. On a grander scheme one reason I am a fan of the MCU is because I do enjoy the character growth of the movies, which all vary in quality, but Guardians 2 is the strongest contender for why this works. For me at least. Anyway, great video, I understand that this must have been a challenge for you to work on in some capacity and I do share my condolences with you in regards to your father.

Yvette

Loved how this turn out. Although i do have one question: why just voiceover this time? And if you already answered this on twitter, I've been on a break from twitter for the sake of my mental health. I'll be back soon tho. But other than that question, I loved it. Although I also would have added the fact that James Gunn has come out saying that he was going through some hard times making GoTG. Then again, wouldn't really fit with this video you made.

Lindsay Ellis

Honestly? Because I didn't want my face in the same video where I talk about losing a parent. Purely personal, partially stylistic.

Tales from the jar side

I also want to add my condolences for the loss of your father. It must have been difficult to talk about it so openly like that, but it helped me understand the points you were making. Thanks for sharing that.

Grace Curtis

Glad to see I'm not the only one this film caught off guard. Well done on the video, must have been a tough one to make but it came out great. I had a similar experience only with dementia rather then Parkinson's. I was worried at the funeral I'd be unable to grieve after all the crap that went on, but it turned out to be like a release for all these emotions that'd been building up. Thanks again, great analysis.

teacupful

I think this is going to remain one of my favorite reviews you've done. Your decision to be open about something very personal really rooted your observations in that shared experience I think most of us of have-- connecting emotionally to a story or moment in a story because of the way it recreates or calls into question or reminds us of a formative event in our lives. GOTG2 is the only Marvel Universe movie that's made me feel anything, too (I've attributed my coldness to the MCU to -- I'm not even sure, my go to answer has been that I grew up as a colossal X-Men fan and have an attachment to those characters that isn't replicated with the Avengers, but I might be ignoring shortcomings of Marvel movies themselves, there). Sidenote: I found it incredibly hard to like the first movie just because of how constantly distracted I was by the similarities to Farscape, my favorite show. I didn't know the director was a fan at the time, and it was impossible for me not to see many of the same emotional themes of dysfunctional individuals forging a found family playing out with less screentime (and, in my biased opinion, less deftness and thoughtfulness).

Bryan Cash

This video got me to subscribe as a patron. I am also going to evangelize your channel to everyone I know. Thank you for creating it and sharing it with us ❤️

Jade Dale

You might not produce a large quantity of content,but the quality really does speak for itself. Stan Lee often says,"You keep reading them,I'll keep writing them". Well for so long as you keep making videos,I'll keep watching them.

Kevin Lyda

Loved the piece. I lost my mom to ALS last year so, yeah. Already had the feels, but you have the words. Can't imagine it was easy. But even before that reveal it was a great deconstruction. Loved the clip you chose for how people feel in a family argument. Like Gamora, when you're in full-on cannon mode in a family argument it's exactly when you're not seeing your family member's point of view. Perfect scene pick for that experience.

Sam Risebrow

Lindsay you are wild for not being confident about this peice- it's one of your best videos. I love seeing you talk about why movies are good way more than seeing the rest of youtube ripping into bad movies.

Solomon Wakeling

Both my parents have health troubles of troubling magnitude. I'm in that lull before the inevitable storm, as best as I can tell, and I've been making (my foolish) preparations. And pushing people away, and others close, and sometimes one and then the other. And sometimes I don't make any damn sense at all. And I realised even trusting a woman enough to let her be in my room alone, for the first time in almost a year, the other day, even though we only played chess and talked through my thesis... well of course that's all. And you: you're like a surgeon's scalpel right to the heart of matters, but comforting at the same time as you are incisive. Thank you, keep making good work. The best compliment I can give is to say you caused me to self-reflect. And that I watched this film on your recommendation, and I can credit your judgment without question, and honestly just and so on and so forth. Brava.

James R.

Tremendous and moving work. Thank you for sharing honestly about a subject that hit so close to home.

Felicitas

This was beautiful and amazing as always - I also cried so hard during this movie and then again during your review. Thank you for putting in such eloquent words why I loved this movie. I really didn't understand why people felt this movie wasn't as emotionally satisfying or good as the first - i honestly liked it much better, because it really doubled down on the smaller emotional story. Yeah there was the space-mumbo-jumbo but at its heart it is a story about family, about disappointment, about growing up, which to me is a lot more rewarding. We have loads of movies about friends pulling together and finding a family with them, not as many that honestly look at how much harder it is to keep that family from falling apart, from letting your many and disparate issues drive you away again (This incidentally is actually why I do still really like the MCU - just by its nature it *can't* end its narrative with the first kiss or the first emotional connection - it has to carry them into the next movie, into the maintenance, the work you have to put in a relationship after the fireworks (romantic or familial or friendship it doesn't matter) - and really we just do not have enough stories about that, which i think leads to a lot of rl ppl disappointed when having any kind of emotional relationship doesn't turn out to be easy 100% of the time) Anyway - wonderful review, I gotta find a tissue , only criticism, i miss your face :)

James Widman

Thank you. Just... thank you. Please don't question your professionalism; I am in tears and this was good work. [edit ] Re "I just wasn't happy with the episode, and I kept working on it"... In this instance, for a topic so personal and so emotionally difficult, it IS possible to do a good job, but I don't think it's possible to do a good job AND also *feel* that you did a good job: doing it right means it will never quite feel right. But everyone responding to it is reeling from an emotional awareness that *you* facilitated. So please take our word for it: ya done good.

Rodrigo V. Perez

As I haven't seen the movie, I'm gonna put this on 'Watch later'. Normally that wouldn't happen, I enjoy the Whole Plate barely remembering the first two Bayformers (only ones I've seen); but in this case, after watching the intro it seems that it's highly advisable to go through the thing first in order to appreciate your take. In any case, kudos for putting quality over deadline, and for winning the battle against YT bots.

David Majors

I lost my dad in May. All I can really say is thanks for this video. It resonates on a level I didn't expect. Kind of like the movie itself.

Ethan Quinsey

I've been watching my husband deal with the fallout and forgive-or-not-forgive dynamic with his stepfather for over a decade now. This movie hurt. Thank you for this video and for making me feel less corny about sobbing over a blue be-mohawked alien.

Alexis

Just wanted to say thank you for this episode. I have not lost a parent, but I did tear up at the end of your review. We tend to be most critical of our works that are the closest to ourselves, but I thought this review was extremely thoughtful and one of my favorites that you have done. Thank you for sharing it with us.

Nickwolf

The phrase "Machismo No Bueno" just made me blast soda all over my computer. Fucking hell, thats such a great line.

Cinebeast

Damn, Lindsay, I didn't know you were even a Zelda fan.

Chandra

This was really done well, and also explains a lot why I didn't connect as well with this movie than I expected. Part of it is that I don't have a sister and my dad is still alive, so I don't have that emotional resonance. But then again, I can't watch Joy Luck Club without bawling my eyes out because I'm much closer to my mom than my dad. But that being said, I think the thing that really grated on me was how Mantis was treated. Because, as you said, she and her abuse was treated as the butt of the joke, instead of being another victim. And that really bugged me, because I saw them picking on her without her understanding that that kind of ribbing is part of the relationship the other characters have. Like, they treat each other that way, but they're all strong enough and willing to be part of it. But that being said, I feel like I need to rewatch this because I think I'd actually enjoy it more with another watch. I just wish they had toned down the "ha ha, Mantis is so naive, let's treat her like shit and laugh about it."

Haldon Lindstrom

I've been following your career as a content creator since your days with Channel Awesome, and I'm constantly impressed at how far you have come. I have been looking forward to your videos, because I know that they will be thoughtful, well-researched and compelling; I now also look forward to them because of how much of yourself you share when you make them. You do great work; the quality of your videos makes the wait for them completely worthwhile. Thank you for sharing this, and good luck on your future products - I know that I'm looking forward to what's next.

Rebecca Richards

This video was fantastic, I'm glad someone finally chose to talk about it the way I saw it. I didn't get why people blew it off so easily when it was talking about something far deeper and more poignant than any other film in the MCU - even if it still had some conventions to follow. I found one good editorial that talked about "toxic fatherhood", but I feel like this video plunged even deeper into that whole cycle (and finally some serious appreciation for the Nebula and Gamora plot line.) I ended up reading Peter actually using the giant Pac-Man as just more of an extension of Peter using his pop culture as a defense mechanism as something literal. It was similar to how people mocked the David Hasselhoff cameo without getting that the reason he's there is to mock Peter's attachment to him. But that's just my read. I know it must have been very hard for you to talk about your own personal experience in the final portion of the video, but that really brought it all home. ... also thanks for taking more shots at Jurassic World, it's always appreciated over here. If you ever tackle that in greater detail, I'm so there =D

Matt Eldritch

I'm not gonna lie, I almost cried myself to sleep last night after watching this video. I have problems with my family like done in the movie; Like Nebula, I view that my sister abandoned me with an abuser. My father almost broke my mother's leg in a fit of rage and my sister took my father's side in the end, saying mom made him hurt her. She and her boyfriend would usually get out of the house quickly, leaving me alone while he and mom were fighting over something. They moved out awhile ago and I do see and talk to them every now and then and I love her, but I hate her too. It feels bad because I never really have had much thought of her youth, how her experiences shaped who she is or what really goes on in her head. I feel like Mantis, I'm there to keep my parents happy. My sister has neither confirmed nor denied my thoughs on that they had us in order to keep the facade of their awful marriage together. They're both authoritarian, unsupportive of my queer identity, see me as an emotional crutch, essentially don't try to teach me life skills (likely to keep me dependent on them), use guilt on me a lot and never made me feel that I'm not responsible for their happiness. Dad's much more bigoted, mentally unstable and violent than my mom is, but her go to method seems to be a "everyone better follow the rules I lay but never call me out when I don't follow said rules". Sometimes I wanna give them both the Todd speech from Bojack Season 3 where Todd tells Bojack is he's all the things wrong with him, regardless of his tragic past. I've only learned this year that I'm not always responsible for people's reactions to what I do or say, something they've never taught me in all my life. I often feel like Rocket Racoon where I feel people will abandon me, I don't know if I can really handle a long term relationship because I keep doing stupid shit without knowing how not to do stupid shit, due to not thinking before I say or do something. I often feel like I deserve to be alone in life, that everyone will just get tired and bored of me and leave for better things while I alternate between wanting people around to wanting solitiude at the expense of myself. I fear the day my dad dies, because I have no fucking clue how to do a eulogy for someone so awful but someone who I grew up with.

Tom Painter

This was absolutely wonderful. Thank you Lindsay.

Shay Vandevander

Thank you my dear for making and putting this out there. <3

Alina

I really enjoyed the video, Lindsay. And I'm sorry about all the bullshit in your mentions right now.

Kyle Williams

You got James Gunn to watch it and comment, so I'd say you did a pretty good job!

John Trevick

This review blindsided me right in the feels. Lost my mom a year and a half ago to Parkinsons. Had to shut off the video for a while and come back to finish it at the end of the day. Sorry to hear about your dad.

Laura N.

This was a beautiful review, and I am now crying in front of my computer.

Kris Hair

I cried very much during the discussion of rocket FOR NO REASON. Seriously though, excellent work as always Lindsay. <3

Zachary Shuford

I'm not ashamed to say my wife and I cried watching this one.

LL

Man I teared up, and I didn't even enjoy GOTG 2 that much. After I finish my break from cape-movies, I might give it another chance.

Solomon Wakeling

I want to say something about PD: my nan died of it, or at least, a combination of that and old age and smoking and all the rest. When I was trying to wrap my head around my own condition (schizoaffective disorder) I read a lot of popular neuroscience. Something I remembered is that, conversely to schizhophrenia/schizoaffective disorder, PD patients have lowered rather than increased dopamine production in the brain. It was interesting because my nan's son (my uncle) has schizophrenia proper and I'd never thought to see a link (in affecting the same neurotransmitter). And of course dopamine is involved in conscious movement as well as the reward-pleasure circuitry, it makes some sense to me. Some anti-psychotics can cause movement disorders including "parkinsonian" ones over the long term. I read also that PD patients can often have a susceptibility to problem gambling, particularly poker (slot) machines, which was my nan all over. Always going down to the pokies. It was interesting to hear you report that PD, specifically, changes a person's personality, not necessarily just a chronic or terminal illness. I only know a very little, but before that not a great deal at all...I think growing up I tended to associate it with the tremor, and not something beginning in the brain that could also affect mood or mental wellbeing or behaviour. I'm interested to learn more about it; I picked up Michael J. Fox's book from a secondhand store not long ago, I'll probably start there once my accursed masters thesis is written up.

Null

Lindsay, over the last month I've had the pleasure of enjoying all of your amazing hard work over the last ten years and I'm so excited to be a Patron. Your years of comprehensive deconstruction and analysis shine, as this piece hit home for a lot of us. I am grateful that you are open with your personal experience with loss, as I often struggle with how to address the loss of a loved one. I know how hard it can be for many of us to convey the compassion, concern, and genuine empathy we wish to express to console others coping with loss, especially on/over/through/(within?) the internet. I don't know the relationship you had with your dad, but I hope that you are healthily recovering and coping with the support of the people you love and cherish most. The release of this video nearly marks the tenth year I've experienced living without my mom. Your words about remembering your father before the illness instead of the final years really affected me, as I watched her quickly wither from an energetic, upbeat inspiration, to a person I couldn't bear to see, knowing that at any moment I would lose her to cancer. It reminded me of how horrible I feel knowing that I wasn't able to be with her when she died, and how I don't have a distinct memory of the final moment I saw her alive. I don't have a final memory of telling her how much I loved and appreciated her, and wasn't able to hold onto a final moment of her knowing it. I could go on and on about my experience, but I won't. Instead, I want to thank you for creating an intelligent, critical, and entertaining body of work that encourages people to examine why they love what they love. Or why they might not. And eat the whole plate. The WHOLE plate! But seriously, you produce some of my favorite content on YouTube, and I look forward to seeing so much more of your work! Thank you!

Solomon Wakeling

Are you still unhappy with this piece? I think it is important I give this kind of feedback and that I report that I've been working through a very wide array of feelings since watching yesterday. The argument is focused and proceeds logically and expertly from point to point, but I think the emotional territory covered is quite broad. Structurally you give the same weight and depth to each main character, which has a cumulative effect on the emotions, especially when a viewer (who is being asked to self-examine) has multiple resonances with different characters. In the fiction, the character can be defined by a singular focal point, but when you line all of those up in a row in your critique, they can align in a single viewer (abuse/grief/cutting people out of your life/toxic masculinity...) who relates to each. A lot of them did for me, and I'm honestly a little adrift. So, if there's a fault, I'd locate it not in the cohesion of the argument so much as the emotional spectrum, given that there's maybe six or so delicate and emotionally painful topics covered, and many of those could coalesce in a single viewer.

Russian Language Doritos ad

I must admit I didn't like the vol. 2 as much as the previous one when leaving the movie theater, but it grew on me over time. Adding to that, you pointed out things I didn't notice, and it made me like the movie even more now. I am really glad you keep doing this videos, going to through all that work, because I always end up learning so much and thinking a lot about what you discuss. This one was no different, and made me think a lot about my mom (that passed away 12 years ago), why my father sometimes does things the way he does and how important it is the way I raise my son (who is now 8). Thank you Lindsay. Thank you very much.

Eric Juneau

This is the video that made me decide to become a Patreon patron (or is it just Patron? Patreonon? Patrononon? Pokemon?)

BruceR

Thank you for this. Your stuff this year has been consistently amazing. I loved the ending of GotG2, and I couldn't explain why... until you did.

Robert Bracey

I think Guardains 2 does something very clever. Played straight the subject matter would be near unwatchably dark. The fantastical and comedy elements render a story that is essentially about abusive childhoods palatable - and that no attempt is made to render that simplistic allows it to give weight to the fanastical and comedic element. As uncomfortable as the Mantis element is, the other characters failure to recognise what they are doing is a real observation.

Solomon Wakeling

I think what I meant to say by my overly complex and pretentious comment before was that your video partly about abuse and the effect it has on us, made me think about a time when I was abused and the effect it had on me (as well as a lot of other things). And why (like rocket) I don't like to be touched. And it sorta fucked me up for a week (not your video, the memory of the event;), but I'm okay. There were things that needed to be processed; and I'd opened up to a friend for the first time not long before about it a little too casually, so no wonder this happened now (in the midst of a deceptively lengthy head cold, to boot). I have quite a lot more insight into the way I've acted over many long years than I did a week ago. On the film, Mantis was the one who made me cry. When she touches Drax, and can feel what he feels, and she starts weeping and he doesn't. That's when I wept in the theatre, at the revelation of the hidden pain. Though it isn't her pain, she's the vessel, or medium, or what-have-you, there's a gut reaction to her expression and her role as burden-carrier... which held some complexity for me. I used to work a lot with interpreters for asylum seekers, and I recall their voices would sometimes take on the sadnesses of those they were interpreting. I see something of that in Mantis as medium. And of course I sort of wanted something like that, for someone else who is able to express how it feels. Sigh. I said to my psychiatrist this year I was drinking more whiskey in the days before seeing her so that I could "cry it out" and she said "I think that's okay. Just don't...etc". It sounds like a country song, but the whiskey didn't work.

Fancy Cat

I originally came here to post about the last ten minutes of the movie, and how much I related to what you said about your father. I also had a complicated relationship with my father, who died when I was in high school. But that’s a little too raw right now, so I’m just going to say, thank you for articulating a lot of what I was feeling. Instead, I wanted to mention another part of the movie that wasn’t covered in your review (no complaints, there’s a lot there!). I thought it was incredibly sad how Kraglin (the guy who gets the arrow in the end) tried to raise a legitimate criticism with Yondu; i.e., that Yondu was always putting Peter above the other crew members, and Taserface and his group co-opted that sentiment as an excuse to mutiny and kill the other crew members. The way Kraglin’s voice breaks when he tells Yondu, “I didn’t mean to do a mutiny… They killed all my friends,” I don’t know. That really got to me. I would also mention, watching the mutineers callously kill the crewmembers who stayed loyal to Yondu was 1000 times more horrifying than the idea of Ego wiping out the galaxy. Ego, Ultron, Loki, Dark Elf Dude, they’ve got nothing on laughing while watching crewmates they’d travelled with for years suffocate one by one. Jesus, that was beyond evil. While I’ve enjoyed pretty much all the Marvel movies (and Wonder Woman), Guardians is the only superhero franchise where I really want to see what happens next. I also find it ironic that for a group of self-proclaimed assholes, they have way better chemistry than any of the other hero teams. I would love to see someone do an analysis comparing Logan with Guardians Vol 2, since they have several overlapping themes (and are better than average superhero films with kickass soundtracks). Personally, I got more out of Guardians but there was a lot to like in Logan too.