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Nebula Original: Is There Still a Very Special Place in Hell for Matt Stone and Trey Parker? (Patreon)

Published:
2026-02-20 17:23:16
Imported:
2026-06

Content

https://heresa.video/lindsay-south-park

Friendly reminder - to access Nebula originals, you must subscribe to the Nebula tier (their rules, not mine) under memberships. As always, send us a DM if you're having issues.

Files

Comments

BadGuyRants

All the Family is way more nuanced than you gave it credit for… that part was rough to watch.

DAS k1ishEé

As a South Park Fan who grew up with them ans still watches to this very day: Good Job. I cannot coprehend how hard this must have been to rewrite over and over again to nail your points with such precission. There is nothing in here I cannot fully support.

Lindsay Ellis

Was that point not made? Whole purpose of that section was to demonstrate that it was a complex and not at all regressive show, but a lot of people (Stone and Parker included) only take "Archie does slurs and people laugh" from it, and that is an indelible part of its influence.

Tribal Beat

Patting myself on the back for having not found South Park funny since 2007ish. Jesus, that was 20 years ago?

Arielle Lyons

“unless you’re listening to bulwark or pod save america every day, you probably don’t know who these people are” *cries in newspaper copy editor*

Sarah Montgomery

Trey Parker: "Don't worry. If I'm wrong, I'll recant on my deathbed."

Neo Ultra Mike

Yeah as much as a South Park fan as I am who isn't that big into All In The Family even I have to squint my eyes and go "uh whatttt?" When Matt and Trey admitted one of Cartman's biggest influences is Archie Bunker. Like that makes sense if you're talking more about say early Peter Griffin (which BTW I think is another thing that South Park inevitably made worse; when they complained about how Family Guy is nothing but random gags and didn't care about the characters it made the writters who already were more cyncial then the team that made the original 3 seasons before the show was revived just fully delve into that and wound up making the show much worse) but for as bigoted and intolerant as Archie can be he does still feel enough of a relatable person you get why he's the main character you are supposed to side with. There are certainly times Cartman is on the winning side but more often then not he is the total antagonist/dick of the group of friends who either gets comuppances for his horrible actions or wins in a way you're not supposed to specifically like. I don't see how that's really something you peg as Archie Bunker's character and again not even that big a fan of All In The Family but even I know that. How could guys who literally worked with Norman Lear not really get that?

BadGuyRants

I’m down with the whole modern audience for that show being out of touch/racist boomers. But Archie Bunker was always considered a joke in each episode and got the exact opposite of what he wanted each time. He wasn’t “lovable” just portrayed as a human being with an awful outlook on life that made him miserable. Media nowadays cast anyone not squeaky clean as the ultimate evil. It was more interesting in this case.

Sarah Montgomery

I started to check out soon after "Imaginationland", which didn't have even one episode's worth of goodness, spread over three pointlessly pre-Memberberryish Memberberry episodes. They probably didn't even realize they were parodying themselves before they even went after JJ or the Jurassic World people or whatever. "Medicinal Fried Chicken" was the last good episode. And had the show ended after "The List", that would have been a perfect finale. Kenny even died at the very end, for the first time in several seasons, after Stan and Wendy had a puke-cute. And that the show completely copped out of "You're Getting Old" was the last straw that I had no business sticking with a show that clearly didn't even give a shit about itself.

Sarah Montgomery

Slight reply: "as bigoted and intolerant as Archie can be he does still feel enough of a relatable person you get why he's the main character you are supposed to side with". Neither Norman Lear nor Carol O'Connor EVER wanted the audience to side with Archie. He was ALWAYS meant to be a narrow-minded bigot, stuck in the past, angry that "blacks", "queers", "dykes", "Hebes", etc were strutting around, acting like they belong the same as "regular, blue-collar guys" like him. The audience of the 1970s were meant to IDENTIFY with Archie, as their father, their uncle, their grandfather, their cousin, somebody. But Archies was NEVER, EVER meant to be "sided with". He was always backwards, and was supposed to be laughed AT. But in the 1970s, every white family had at least one guy like Archie. He was meant to be UNDERSTOOD, from everyone's personal experience. But NEVER sided with. Archie was an old man, increasingly out of touch with the times, to be mocked at, at best, pitied, for not being able to understand the world that changed around him. But NEVER sided with. Whereas Cartman was South Park's main joke engine from Season One. His anti-Jewish, anti-whatever, angry-kid-is-funny punch line character made him the obvious comedic lead of the irreverent comedy. That Parker and Stone could ever claim that they didn't expect him to take off. BS. Even they admitted that Stan and Kyle started off as the Parker and Stone analogs, but that it was clear, very early on, that Cartman was a better representation of the both of them.

BadGuyRants

Thank you for this :) Shows like All in the Family & The Honeymooners (one not existing without the other) are targets of bad faith criticism by judging them based of the later shows they inspired.

Josh Grey

As someone not in the US I haven't thought about South Park in a very long time. Now I too am making the Sideshow Bob noise.

TimmyMac16

In the obnoxious teen department, probably a lot of Cartman fans that dreamed of making people Respect Thier Authority back in the day are cops and ICE agents now.

TimmyMac16

"don't worry, they make fun of everything!" Because the one time they punch up makes up for the 99 times they punch sideways and down.

Justin Proctor

I gave up in 2004, after the awful "Douche or Turd Sandwich." Just so ridiculous, when the reality that year was actually "what seems to be the biggest douche possible (but just wait another 12 years) or kind of bland and stiff but perfectly nutritious sandwich".

Justin Proctor

I do think it's ridiculous for Parker & Stone to claim "you can't have a character like Archie Bunker today" when Married... With Children ended just a few months before South Park premiered.

Lindsay Ellis

Yeah, if it wasn't clear, we felt pretty strongly that Stone and Parker (and a lot of people, both our dads included) took messages from All in the Family that the creators did not intend.

Jack Reitman

Re: Cartman in the 90s. I grew up in the Midwest in the 90s, and I hate to tell you this, but people *did* speak like him more often than you would think. The problem was that middle school kids who hear their parents sling anti-Semitic (and generally racist, but less so) crap around, and then see Cartman do it too, do not get the Archie Bunker joke that we are supposed to be laughing *at* Cartman, not with him. I liked the show as a kid, but that shit was a real pain to deal with.

Stormsdream

Sometimes the impact of part of what a video is saying is so strong that we cannot hear everything the video is saying. It happens. The whole segment about All in the Family gets into the nuance.

BadGuyRants

Re-watched the video. Definitely didn’t hear exactly what you said correctly & assumed that you were saying Lear/O’Connor intended the lovable thing. My bad.

Aidan Martin

This is the first time I've ever seen an American use the verb "arsed", honestly, I'm proud and you've been missing out

Ev G

I do wonder if part of Matt and Trey's humor focusing on Liberals and not too concerned with people not understanding Cartman is that they grew up in the stereotypically liberal Colorado. "Of course no one would take this seriously, no one talks like this".

Deconstruction Interactive

I genuinely spent the first five minutes of the video aghast at South Park still being a thing. I kind of want a follow on, a "why is South Park the way it is?" Is it a uniquely American thing to be edgy but then sort of realize wait, I actually care about things? Is it a uniquely human thing? It's part of growing up, but societies grow up at very different rates than individuals.

jaded cynic

I resonate so much with Lindsay’s frustration about “both sides are equally bad” arguments. Really? I’m no fan of the Dems, but they’re just as bad as the current regime violating people’s rights and just laws in general with no repercussions? They’re the same to you? REALLY?! My favourite part of the video is Lindsay dubbing over Sideshow Bob’s visual gag. Mood.

Landon Townsend

The recent BAFTA controversy makes me bring up another reason they're going to hell. They had an episode on Tourettes where they meticulously went over many different variations of it... outside of the one that makes you vocalize your offensive intrusive thoughts. Meanwhile Cartman spends the episode saying the most offensive thing at any moment and "that's how you know he's faking it" Statistically it's likely that at least one major figure on social media coming out against John Davidson had their perception poisoned specifically by this episode.

Maria Ilyukhina

I grew up in Russia and watched South Park in the early 2000. I did not get like 95% of political and cultural references, an but it was pretty obvious that Cartman's behavior is not normal and he is not a role model in any sense.

Adzerbahd Thinlyvale

Matt & Trey were always reactionaries in the truest sense. Raging against whatever was popular or had social cache. But being "anti-extremist" is not only incoherent, but lands rightward when your concept of the left is actually corrupted neo-libs. Best place to throw stones at all the hypocrites from, is where you're not taking a stance on anything! (And Libertarianism is a way for smug assholes to basically ignore their privilege.) The movie that semi-glazed activism was hardly 2 years into South Park's run. There were another 25 to go! Hundreds of episodes. And if people are getting their political info solely from Bulwark & Pod Save.. we're in trouble. (From what I've seen, Colbert & Kimmel do okay at least raising awareness of ghouls in the administration. But these are corporate-skewed sources, with what amounts to gag rules regarding systemic critiques.) As always, pop culture is an inherently compromised space. And juvenile, takedown humor will naturally skew rightward and anti-intellectual in its appeal.. blecch. *Sorry for the rant; thanks for being here!

Hayden Wilder

This was awesome. I was admittedly a bit reticent to watch right away as a fan of the show overall but when I did, I didn’t disagree with a single thing said. I will also mention that when a friend and I watched the show in fifth grade, he ended up kinda using the show as an excuse to like insult me and the friendship fell apart (we did ultimately reconcile as adults for what it’s worth though)

Ev G

Funny to think that they loved All in the Family, when Stone and Parker made Meathead an annoying busy body who wasn't really doing anything worthwhile in that episode where Rob Reiner. (R.I.P)...... shows concern for second hand smoke.

Andie

Which is weird because the episode was actually praised by the Tourettes Foundation for the portrayal of the disorder lol

yeeyee ass haircut

giant douche vs turd sandwich doesn't work as a metaphor for both sides being equally bad becuase one is a hygiene product while the other is a way to literally eat shit. Granted douching can increase chances of infection but not at the rate of literally eating shit

Erik Kimerer

Got 2 separate accounts, from sources in the voice over industry, that were very believable second-hand & third-hand tales of Matt & Trey's work style. The first I heard was from a colleague, who's friends with one of their regular voice actors. Though the show operates under a 6-day workflow, it was rumored they produced two separate episodes in 2012 (or rather, one episode with easily interchangable scenes) for either election outcome. From what I heard, in 2016 they had only produced one episode, banking on Hillary to win. This episode wasn't as easily interchangeable, as it was in the middle of their attempt to do a serialized story across the whole season. My source stated they had been on the phone with their South Park VA friend, who was in the South Park studio at midnight on election night 2016 to redo the entire episode, which was airing the very next day. The second account I got was from a chance encounter with the person who voiced the "Panderverse" Cartman, and was also an actor in the MCU. I knew Trey & Matt would be completely non-union, and asked if that was in conflict with Disney, but it didn't seem to be an issue. They painted Trey & Matt positively as some kind of anti-autoritarian/nihilistic figures, who are going to do and say what they want without remorse. They exist in a very interesting pocket of television history, where they are among the only fictionalized shows that stays as up-to-date with their references under one of the tightest production cycles ever known for an animated show. That knee-jerk twitch to say something has led to many episodes that are still held up as comedic gold, and others that fall lower than flat.