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The Last of the Game of Thrones Hot Takes (Patreon)

Published:
2019-08-13 22:37:22
Edited:
2019-08-14 12:49:30
Imported:
2026-06

Content

Fundraiser for Emilia Clarke's charity, SameYou: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/justicefordaenerys 

#ThankYouEmilia #JusticeForDaenerys 

Files

The Last of the Game of Thrones Hot Takes

Power doesn't corrupt; power reveals. Fundraiser for Emilia Clarke's charity, SameYou: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/justicefordaenerys

Comments

Hayley Nystrom

You must feel like Frodo. “It’s done.”

A C Barton

over 1 hour of content god bless you lindsay

Eli Bildirici

Computer over. Productivity = very no. Excuse me

Eli Bildirici

And starts with namechecking doorstop of a book that stares me in the face each day, incredible

Callen

I saw on Twitter that this is up. So here I am.

Dylan

An hour long video from Lindsay? I'm here for it. I'm sure it was a lot of work for you, but I'm excited to watch this!

Vicky Leta

Thank you for all of your tremendous work to put this together. I hope you all enjoy some well deserved drunken nights at the cheesecake factory.

InTheAir

Literally just made a Patreon account because I have to watch this before first semester starts. Also that goal in the sidebar... that has to be broken in the near future.

MzMilena

Oh this just made my week.

Cecil

"That's not a good prize!"

Eli Bildirici

That is not a small number! That is a big number!

Benedict Marko

Oh, how great :) Note: There appears to be a tiny glitch at 20:25 (the title card "Jon Snow" appears for a couple of frames one edit too early) :)

Signs

Look, I gave you liquor once and I don't think it was enough for all you do for us. Next time I see you at a con I'll bring like five bottles, what do you want???

Harry

Major LOL at "Super-Hitler! The Hitler that fliiiiiees!" [Editing this comment to add:] I didn't watch more than twenty minutes of this TV show, but I knew both parts of this video would be worthwhile. Excellent work.

TimeChaser

I see that Hadestown sneaking in there at the end

josey (bog unicorn)

Sometimes I see stuff in the later seasons of GoT and it strikes me that Weiss and Benioff are probably the kind of centrists who describe themselves as "socially liberal but fiscally conservative".

Justin Bull

10 out of fucking 10 on the sound effects, comedic cuts, and after effects. Thank you Lindsay!

Hardy Roach Games

that was great! There is a single frame of "Jon Snow" just before that title card appears, but otherwise looking good

Mary Thompson

I really enjoyed this! I’m also glad to hear that I’m not the only one who has no enthusiasm for rewatching any of the episodes anymore now that the ending sucked that bad. Instead, I’m re-reading the books. Thanks!

SarahH

I was wondering why I wasn't able to let this ending go, and then I realized this is a perfect microcosm of some of the biggest issues in fiction media: 1) thinking that fans guessing the ending is a bad thing instead of the logical conclusion of your setup, 2) punishing your female characters for being ambitious and thinking feminism is being a stone cold beyatch, and 3) writing a nihilistic ending and thinking that makes you Camus even though the whole basis of storytelling implies that life and choices do have incredible meaning. Sidenote: I bet Lindsay's Reddit karma is higher than my mortgage.

Klil H. Neori

An hour+ video essay starting with references to The Power Broker? Everything is coming up Klil!

Francis Dickinson

I don't often disagree with you, especially not about visual media - but I'm pretty sure that D&D were writing to GRRM's ending but had knocked all the rough edges off the character in the way.

Hunter Dansin

Unlike season 8, this was worth the wait.

Keith Bos

It wasn't long enough!

Francis Dickinson

The best illustration of the difference I can make between the book and the show Daenerys is that in the show in Astapor she says “Unsullied! Slay the masters, slay the soldiers, slay every man who holds a whip, but harm no child. Strike the chains off every slave you see!” In the book it is: “Slay the Good Masters, slay the soldiers, slay every man who wears a tokar or holds a whip, but harm no child under twelve, and strike the chains off every slave you see.” The Tokar, of course, is a garment that only the freeborn can wear. But there is a huge difference between being freeborn and being a slaver - and in a caste ridden society if you have the right to wear status garments you probably will (and even Danny wore a Tokar to meet the local worthies). If this were based on the American Civil War in the show Sherman would have ordered "Kill the soldiers, plantation owners, and anyone with a whip but don't kill children" and in the book Sherman would have ordered "Kill all slave owners, overseers, and all fully dressed white people over the age of twelve." These are of course entirely different characters even if much of what they do overlaps strongly. Burning King's Landing fits the book character and the show character therefore decided to do it. Which ... no. They were two different characters.

Francis Dickinson

I thought your point was that Show Danny was way out of character (which she was) - but you seemed to imply the act was out of character without much about the way the two Danys were vastly different - and at a couple of points seemed from my watching to imply that they were the same person. Possibly I missed a few things or more was said in the first half.

Gabe

Lindsay! I cannot tell you how much life this video is giving me. It is perfectly expressing all of the problems I had with the show that I am not knowledgeable enough about film and literature to express. I know it must have been really hard to make such a big video, but I really want to say how much it makes me happy.

Benedict Marko

Also one typo: "siege" as "seige" at 52:21 :) There's always tiny stuff like that.

GumballBob

Just trying to help out with QA. The bit at 20:24, the "Jon Snow" text flashed for a second before you bring up the actual scene with "Jon Snow" If that make any sense.

D. E. Wright

Harris should read the books

Gabe

Also, RE: Your final point RE: Danyrys...did D&D basically have the same message as South Park? "Caring about things a lot is the worst thing you can do"

Emily Daenzer

One thing I noticed when you were going over Jaime and Tyrion's characters is that if they kept Tyrion's revenge wanting and he gives Dany the go-ahead to 'burn them all' that would have made for an interesting clash with Jaime who, like, stopped that the first time it almost happened. I don't know how that could have tied into a resolution for Cersei's character, maybe Jaime has to choose between two terrible queens or his two terrible siblings. Or fuck! Maybe even give Jaime the role of telling Dany genocide is bad. It makes way more sense than Tyrion and it's thematically interesting because Jaime murdered her fucking father! Maybe it wouldn't have won an Emmy and people would still probably hate but at least the characters are motivated by something.

LazulAda

Ironically, Tyrion's speech about how we all "ignored" Daenerys' past actions because we agreed with her targets only makes me think about the amount of bad and inconsistent writing decisions I was willing to put up with, defend or even cheer because I wanted to like this show so damn much until it all became indefensible in S8. There was even a short while after The Bells when I tried to rationalise it with 'well, violence always worked for Dany so ofc she would see that as an option" just because I didn't want to admit that the thing I put so much emotional energy into and wanted to like so badly was actually... bad. S8 was the first time I watched a TV show premiere live. In my country it premiered on HBO at 3 A.M and I stayed up every single night to watch it despite the fact that thanks to that I only got 3 hours of sleep those nights. I was so excited for it and wanted to like it so badly but every single bad choice D&D made just came to a head in this season. I am especially mad about the handling of Jon Snow because I just really like the good king trope I think he was based on. I am miffed about the Night King but the part I am really angry about is how they picked him to kill Dany and yea, part of it is Kit Harrington crying at that table reading. I think it would have been a much more in character decision (and a much better subversion of the trope) to have Jon tell Dany about her heritage, and publicly back down from it like Maester Aemon. It would also have been a character growth moment: Jon who defined himself by his family status grows past it. I also really hated the part where it turned out that every man around Dany was there only because they wanted in her pants. It belittles both her and the men who loved her saying that they agreed with her only because she was pretty rather than they fell in love with her because she is an amazing woman with great ideas and ideals who is worthy of that love. It reveals so much about how the writers viewed her. Poor Emilia Clarke deserved so so much better. These are my two big hates, 'cause as I time passes everything else just becomes a dull ache. I was so eager to watch GoT just this may that I couldn't wait that few extra hours to watch the new episode and now I haven't even thought about rewatching my favourite scenes since the last episode.

Ugino

I think this is my favorite video of yours ever and that's an extremely high bar.

Juliette

Lol I know you said you’re never doing a video this long again, but I just wanted to say thank you for this fantastic video essay!

M. Leslie

Alright you all win, season 8 ruins everything and one must accept it because it's being hated in a "good way". Never mind that a realistic thought-out consequence for every event would've necessitated 15 seasons, and Breaking Bad set an unattainable standard for every TV showrunner (D&D included) in the 2010s to be finite and leave people wanting more but also fully satisfied. And if I bring up that from season 4 onward the show's writing staff was the usual exclusively male group, it'll start the flame war that the internet is good at. You win. Now is there any legitimate consolation you can give in exchange? May I at least be forgiven for the desire to live with a franchise's flaws, and live in harmony with the rest of you? Do pleas for mercy have worth here?

Lindsay Ellis

I didn’t want to call out South Park but I was thinking a lot about south park

Lindsay Ellis

I feel all of this and this was why I was mad enough to go for AN HOUR

Rachel Anne

Good lord. It’s media criticism. It’s what she does. It’s what you’re paying her to do. You can agree, you can disagree, you can find it interesting, you can find it not interesting. It’s not a personal attack. Get a grip.

SarahH

*D&D have entered the chat*

Elder Dog

Good job and thank you for ending your essay on a positive note. As a Star Wars fan who has dealt with all the bitterness and stupidity involved with the fandom for years it's nice to know that some people are still capable of doing some good even when they're disappointed in the final product.

De

Me: Oh hey, the Funyuns are back. Lindsay: That's right bitch, the Funyuns are back! Me: :0 I see now why that was a difficult video to make. It's more than just the length. It can seem so petty to complain about artistic disappointment while the world burns down around us, but we really do need art to sustain us. Our minds need art and narrative and public performance the way our bodies need food. When I've been gorging on something that turns on me afterwards, or when the artistic fulfillment I was waiting on fails to show up, it can really throw me off for days. It's like all the times I've had to live off noodles for a few weeks, after about week two things just start to feel wrong (and I really like noodles as a rule). The only cure is to find some sustenance somewhere else. I hope you and Angela find some good books you can just read for pleasure while hanging out at the Hugo Awards.

Sean Brocklehurst

Great video Lindsay, some of your best work. Really clarified a lot of what I was thinking and feeling, but didn't know how to put it. I had not heard of Robert Caro and his ideas about power before, it's very interesting, I had always disliked that quote about 'power corrupts'. P.S. H Bomber guy read the books

Deconstruction Interactive

Well done!! Yet another fantastic video essay :) And an especially huge kudos for writing something that encompasses and critiques an eight-season show. One thing I was thinking about while watching was historical parallels to GoT. War of the Roses of course, but there are tons of other examples of long periods of feudal warfare: Russia, China, Japan, etc. To the best of my knowledge, none of those ended with democratization. In fact, most ended with an invasion and/or a powerful ruler coming to the throne and unifying the opposing factions behind them. I know, I know #historicalaccuracy and all that, but I think if the showrunners *did* want to have a Democracy Best kind of ending, it needed a lot more build-up and explanation than they offered. Looking forward to the next one!

M. Leslie

With my hyperbole out of the way (of course it wasn't construed as personal, I just had a bad day beforehand), the fact is it took a lot of convincing both before and during a view of Lindsay's words on the matter. The fact is the journey was more important to me than the destination. It could have ended with Brienne of Tarth entering a time loop to turn into a Night King 2.0 with Jon screaming "Noooooooooooo" and Tyrion and Sansa trying to reverse the portal using Winterfell bricks and Bran's super-vision, and I still would've been fine. The actual last episode plays closer to my imagination than the previous season led me to hope. But the majority of Lindsay's arguments are so effective that it's a bummer. I could cling a little longer to the thematic theory that all these Westerosi seekers of personal triumph were idiots the whole time and their combined wars were fated to deflate like a balloon (rather than end with a CGI bang), but it wouldn't be the same. Tomorrow morning, when I'm sober, Game of Thrones will be hanging by its plot holes in my guilty-pleasure closet.

M. Leslie

Though when it comes to consistency, they did build up so much that winter was coming, so once it was winter could they not have shown the weather STAY wintery for more than a few days at a time?! Fuck the writers.

Laura D.

I am at 20:24. Nice video so far :) It looks like at this timestamp there is an extra frame saying "Jon Snow". And then you say speaking of Jon Snow and it appears again.

Caroline Hill

Putting the fine point on how Dany rose from power from abuse to die by her lover murdering her was good, thank you.

Caroline Hill

It’s oks for you to keep liking it. 0.o

Isaac Reydunt

No piece of media has ever inspired a level of seething fury as the GoT ending. Thank you for this video. At long last I can get a sense of closure from the months I've wasted ranting on reddit and anyone who would listen to me. I was just waiting for this last video and it was amazing. I'm ready to move on now.

Elizabeth Anne

Watching this just really made me realize just how much the condescension and misogyny jumped out from the show writers.

Lewis Lovhaug

As someone who has watched none of Game of Thrones, this was incredibly helpful in explaining the backlash. God, screw that smug, center-is-best, "believing in things is BAAAAAAAD" kind of garbage.

Sophie Birch

Lindsay mentioned in part 1 that D&D rushed through the ending despite GRRM and HBO wanting it to go on a few more seasons. The problem though is that they could have ended at season 8, but they had lost seven hour long episodes that could have developed the endgame further.

Joe Holley

Adding to your argument, Ser Jorah's entire character arc through the show is undermined by the ending because he's clearly meant to love Dany not just bcuz purdy but because he believes in her politics and IS LITERALLY THE ONLY PERSON WHO KNOWS HOW FAR SHE'S COME. Then he has a big dramatic death sequence protecting his waifu and then...she spends the ending throwing away everything he loved in her. I thought Jorah was one of the most compelling parts of the early show and that really just left an awful taste in my mouth. Great vid.

Jack

I love this! I've never seen the show though

Brett

Definitely agree that Tyrion was supposed to be a more "corrupting" influence on Daenerys, pushing her to take King's Landing as quickly and harshly as possible. It also makes sense with his storyline - as a Lannister, he's starting off at Minus 50% on the scale of Zero to 100% trust as far as Daenerys as concerned. He should have been egging her on to take down Cersei as a way of proving his loyalty to Daenerys, with any sort of "what have I supported?" doubts coming after KL burns.

Brett

If they wanted out, they should have just turned the show over to a new show-runner, or gradually phased a new one in over season 6 and 7 while reducing their active role in the production. I wonder why they didn't, especially since they clearly seemed ready to move on to either "Confederate" or "Star Wars".

Kate Ashwin

i rewatched the first one and it just made me even sadder, cannot recommend

Harold Feld

A big reason I’m a fan is I always learn something and get valuable insights from your show. Thank you again.

Sophie Birch

Who knows really. Maybe they still wanted to maintain control because why allow someone else to get the Emmy gold that they totally deserve (seriously how the fuck did someone read that script and go 'yep this is Emmy worthy')? Maybe it was easier to adapt GRRM's work but as soon as they ran out of books it became harder to come up with ideas based on some notes so reduced the seasons as a result.

Sophie Birch

It's kind of the problem the Harry Potter films had. They started the production on them before JKR had even finished Goblet of Fire so a lot of important plot points that the movies needed to set up for later movies were not adapted in and then just hacked in later once the books were published.

Sofie Kanpuriya

Thank you for putting the burning of Fantasy Vatican in context. When I saw it happen, it made me feel a sort of cynicism(?) about the show and I couldn't really place my finger on why that was up until now.

Simon Craven

Lindsay, thank you for tackling what must have been an almost overwhelming task, and doing it so well. There are some important object lessons in long run story development here for anyone involved in serial fiction.

Gabe

I never expected GoT to become South Park.

Gabe

What made you reluctant to name them?

Gabe

Thank you for doing so, we all are, and this was *incredibly* cathartic.

dryeraser

Has the video been taken down?

Samuel Webb

I really appreciate your calling out the absolutely toxic and insulting-to-the-viewer politics that underpin the ending chosen by the writers, and Tyrion's little speech in particular. That line about liberation theology is breathtaking. Not only is this fundamentally terrible writing, but it's repulsive in its political hypocrisy. Talk about power revealing the real D & D. It's because they could tell this story however they wanted that they unwittingly show us who they actually are. Thanks, guys. I hate it.

Samuel Webb

Also, wow, that Monty Python bit at the end is inspired!

Kurt Schreiber

I'm someone who watched Game of Thrones in less than a month prior to the final episode being released (gotta make use of that two week free trial and post job loss depression), so I have a speed run take of the series compared to most die hard fans who have watched since the beginning. I can say with utter certitude that the show fell off after season 4 perceptibly, and was only a downward spiral from there with increasingly nonsensical plot points and character actions. I feel that the show really went off the rails the more D&D strayed from George R. R. Martin's source material, and that's the main issue. Yeah D&D suck and have absolute shit takes, but it's almost amazing to me how much they coasted off of the superior writing from the source material. Watching the episodes in quick succession makes the shift in what was inspired or directly lifted from ol' Rolling Rartin Martin's texts and D&D's original "writing" depressingly stark. The characters and story go from intricate to breathtakingly stupid at breakneck speeds. For me the show officially went into "this is going to end badly, isn't it?" territory in season 5 episode 10. The ridiculous motivations of Stannis and his even more ridiculous downfall, combined with the climax of the dumb ass Dorne subplot (who can forget the classic line, "You want a good girl, but need a bad pussy"?) were just too much. I clung onto hope because some of the stuff in season 6 was alright, but season 7 made no sense at all, and season 8 was just as insulting as you've thoroughly analyzed. Everything you said and more is true, but I feel it doesn't even begin to cover how terribly D&D fucked everyone. From the cast and crew who put their life's energy into this series only to have the legacy of their creative output tarnished by show runners with extremely problematic views of storytelling who wanted to jump ship for that sweet Star Wars dosh, to me the lowly free trial fan who wasted two weeks of my life watching a show that has no pay off or meaning due to it's rushed and cheap ending. Most insulting of all is that D&D took/continue take credit for it as if the whole creation can be credited to their superior writing skills, and continue to get work for it as if they can bring the level of writing from the first four seasons to other properties. Expect all their upcoming projects to be prefaced with "From the creators of Game of Thrones" as their credentials. Woe is me to give a shit about corporate decisions or to downplay D&D's adaptation skills, but Star Wars and Netflix are going to suffer dearly for investing in D&D if they expect the quality writing from the first few seasons. With no source material to adapt, I fear they will be getting S8 tier writing, and it's crazy to me the deals are still pouring in after the disaster that was the last season. Just a sad situation all around.

Tim Bates

Wow, three cheers for everyone involved in creating this mammoth undertaking! Make sure you get well-deserved rests!

M. Leslie

It's weird to need the validation of total strangers, but know that it means quite a lot for liking it to be called okay by another person. Without getting into a long story of clinical depression and the eastern Ontario job market, let's just say Game of Thrones was my happy place for half a decade. It was sexier than porn, funnier than Family Guy (by a long shot!) and had more interesting, relevant ideas than any news media was having about real-life politics. The characters still matter to me even now, and uneven writing cannot destroy them, maybe trip them face-first into the pavement but hey they've been through worse. I just remind myself to keep it a happy pop-culture memory rather than a definition of my own life. Everywhere I look, people are treating the garbage final season like a bad breakup from an abusive partner, and that worries me. People worry me. I promise you all that the scars will heal, just like they did with Sopranos and Lost.

Emma Nygård Stare

Became a patron basically just so I could watch this right away (and of course to support your work because I've been following you for years). Big thanks to you and to Angelina for this excellent video, and ofc to anyone else who contributed! I've watched and loved GoT since season 2 aired. Some people I know that used to watch the show gave up somewhere on the road and I almost did too during season 5, but season 6 gave me new hope. Season 7 kinda sucked but I was willing to go with it. Even though I was hyped for season 8, I has a feeling it would let me down in a lot of ways (considering how bad season 7 was compared to the rest) but I was still hoping for a finale that would wrap up the show beautifully and give us some sense of meaningful closure. Oh boy. I wish someday I'll be able to return to the earlier seasons and watch with joy again but I feel the same way you do, the ending has ruined everything, the magic is gone. I'm not even sad about not liking the show anymore. It just feels kinda... whatever.

M. Leslie

Though honestly, the seat of House Baratheon is called Storm's End, and the one major Westerosi castle that was after seven seasons still unseen was Storm's End, so shouldn't the climax of the entire story have taken place AT Storm's End??? Fuck the writers.

Rachel Mc Veigh

I completely agree when you say the ending can ruin the journey, just look at the Matrix trilogy, the second two films were so bad, they actually made me forget how much I enjoyed the first one. As for Game of Thrones, I only ever watched the first season, not because I didn't want to watch any further but because at the time of the first few seasons I didn't have TV and it never made it on to the list of shows I downloaded cos I kinda forgot about it, years later I decided that I'd wait until it was over before I started to watch it and now it's over and I know the ending, I'm not sure I want to watch it anymore because I can tell that the characters I'll like will end up getting ruined. Knowing the end of somthing shouldn't ruin it for you, I've read almost every book Agatha Christie ever wrote and I will watch any adaption of them because knowing the murder doesn't hurt the journey to get there, that is how well written they are.

Rachel Anne

But the core moral question of making the character who frees slaves the villain remains. Making her the villain earlier in the story doesn't really address the basic question of: Is that a good idea?

Gigler

I mean it's not your fault but It's so hard to see anything when it comes to the long night clips lol

Marty Crenlon

This was really a treat, Lindsay. Well done! Part 1 felt a little loose, but this is brilliantly focused despite the runtime. Clearly this was a huge effort, and you knocked it out of the park. Enjoy the time away!

Benjamin Preston

Me yesterday: Huh, I haven't seen anything from Lindsay & Team in bit. Oh well, it's always worth the wait. Me today: Oh Damn!!

Jade Dale

Top 4 quotes of this vid. 1. "First they came for the slavers"... 2. "She became Super Hitler,the Hitler that flies" 3. Break Stuff Cue and 4. "Just forgot" inserts.

Joe Holley

I LOVE how much this video is influenced by ideas from Hadestown. Amazing show with an amazing message about storytelling, definitely better than the hot mess that was Audience Surrogate Tyrion. :)

demonicblackcat (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-14 06:00 Will there be a closed captioning for this video? I would hate to miss any of the words in this essay. Im not a native speaker so sometimes I miss a lot of words
2019-08-15 07:44

Hedrigal

I'm so confused why they wrote someone who murdered his own father and whose book plot since then has included the explicit fact he also wants to murder his sister into someone who can't bear to lose their family.

Lindsay Ellis

Yes! This is Elisa, Lindsay's assistant. I am working on closed captions. With how YouTube works, I can't start on them until after the video is uploaded, and then once it's up, it takes about 5-6 times as long as the video itself is to do them (so 6+ hours total in this video's case). Because I'm doing this while at the same time as moderating the comments, it can take me a while to actually get them finished depending on how popular the video is. This one's got over 6000 comments already! So I might not be able to fully finish the captions til tomorrow at this rate, but thank you for your patience! --Elisa

Hedrigal

The show realistically needed two more full seasons, and for 7 and 8 to be full seasons. But it's hardly a defense of the show to say "they were rushed" when the only person making decisions to rush were the show runners themselves.

M. Leslie

They definitely made a choice. They definitely blocked out the possibility it would backfire, which is evident in how bulldozer-confident their bad choices were. The "kind of forgot" meme doesn't quite cover D&D, because in seasons 3 and 4 they didn't forget what was important about season 1. What they "kind of" did was change their priorities: when AMC set a trend of truncating seasons, any semblance of following what George R.R. Martin was doing with his books was thrown out the window to join the popularity contest. I can't pretend I wouldn't turn into a pretentious dickhead in such a tempting scenario.

M. Leslie

Though in the pursuit of character fanservice, HOW IN HELL IS IT that the two greatest characters, Arya Stark and Tyrion Lannister, never in 8 seasons exchanged a single word of dialogue or even looked each other in the eye?! How did those two never team up for even a second for a Maisie-Peter powerhouse?! FUCK THE WRITERS.

Eli Bildirici

Turns out the guys best known for 'Troy' and 'X-Men Origins: Wolverine' were failing upward this whole time. Who knew!

Eli Bildirici

There is some of this lurking in ASOIAF, but it's never quite this stark or infuriating.

L

Or why he sexed up his BFF before running out on her to reduce her magnificent character to a sobbing dumped girlfriend.

Neala Ernswa

I am satisfied with our transaction of money for entertainment. Thank you, total stranger!