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Natani Post-Workout (Patreon)

Published:
2026-04-15 23:50:10
Imported:
2026-04
Tags:

Content

Natani unwraps after an intense workout, suggested by Cogwarts Castle!

Files

Comments

frank

Drawing the best art of all time like always.

K.O. PRODUCTIONS

Surprised Keith isn't aroused in the background in this one 😆

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Gotta let the girls breathe, ya know? Yourself included Natani!~ 💖

Halo Hybrid

Gotta let the Chesticles breathe sometimes after a hard training session! 💪

RemyHindle

Natani is so beautiful and I can tell Keith is going to have a great time later hehe :3

bowman502

Natani working hard to keep up the necessary strength to match Keith blow for blow. In a fight of course...

Sir Reginald Lee IV

O.O . . . I ain't even gonna hide the nosebleed this caused. Holy God, Nat's never been hotter. Here's hoping this gets picked for coloring. Now if you'll excuse me... *Grabs tissue box and returns to my bunk*

Patrick Horton

Those dumbbells at their feet. How much weight do you reckoned these things are?

Rinzydings

Hot boy alert!! I bet Keith wouldn't mind helping him out with a shower afterwards c:

Spillthefire6

Do you think Zen counts the reps for her in her mind so she can focus on lifting?

Muddypaws

With someone as sexy as Natani, naked, sweaty workout is the best kind of workout.

Spillthefire6

This is the sight Keith sees when he visits her work room at her insistance so she can help him build muscle and "stop being a furry twig"

AlaricLives87

Positive transmasc fanservice as far as I’m concerned. No special emphasis on his breasts or putting him in an embarrassing situation involving his chest binder coming undone like some weird suggestions put him in. Just looking like the handsome devil he is!

Aaron Peterson

Back when their minds were linked, perhaps.

ACatDragon

Yea this one needs to be colored asap No reason whatsoever-

Stephen Gilberg

How fortunate that wolf keidran sweat rather than pant.

Delta Hawk

Lovely art, but my doctor is getting annoyed at the blood im losing from these nose bleeds...

J. N. Squire

I *really* hope this one ends up winning enough votes to get colored

Lorventus

Oh... Fuck... Wish want ohhhh

RexTyranical

God she's absolutely gorgeous

Darkest Sword

A very sexy, naked, and relaxing sight!

Anonymous1988

Keith: "I'm guessing you would like a post-workout massage?" Natani: "That would be most welcome." Keith: "And should I also provide ear scritches?" Natani: "I mean, if you're going to twist my arm..."

III

First Keith and Alaric, now Natani? I feel so spoiled lately

Alex

Natani goes by he/him

AlaricLives87

Plenty of gay to go around so we eat well!

Alex

Thank you Alaric! This person does it consistently and intentionally, I think.

KapitalKitty

Your art is awesome Tom! Thanks for keeping us fed lol

Alex

*He

Michael Marcoccio

Without a doubt the sexiest picture you’ve ever done. Loving it!

Crimson

Smash next question

Toska

Grrsh, this one taps into my erotics a whole bunch, it's all here. 💦🐺👅 Beautiful wolf, I've always liked Nat.

AlaricLives87

For years. Doesn’t stop me, though. Trans fans need the support

Toska

Will the patrons please suggest this scene again? Maybe from a lower angle that emphasizes where his highest concentration of sweat glands are? 'www';

Aucere

That strip of cloth is load baring

wjd1206

I vaguely remember that feeling. Of course, since retirement I don't do that anymore. I get my activity on my Harley now!😉😉

Muddypaws

Totally ❤️‍🔥

Golden Gears

This scene really makes you realize how giant Nat's feet are.

SCD

Natani: Keith if you don't stop staring at me, I'm gonna bust you right in the nose! Keith: O_O (runs away in fear) Natani: ......

P4R7YP0150N

and yknow what they say about a guy with big feet 😏

Brocade

I wonder if Keith ever calls the twins “the Boys”

Atelier Magra

God damn, looking at that now I am the one starting to sweat.

kfcroc18

Why is she sweating? She covered in fur, shouldn't she be panting?

Rook Prime

Those bindings are apparently worth their weight in gold if they can handle a workout of that magnitude...

Everlight ⨺⃝

*he. also keidran aren't normal animals, and sweating is more efficient than panting.

eddi_TBH

Typical digitigrade. She only walks on the toes but the tendons of the rest of the foot give her speed and leaping ability we humans can only stand in awe of.

ArtAnimationFan

Knowing Natani, it’s most likely intentional. She definitely has a teasing mode these days.

cee

K: You all done, hon? N: Yep (sigh) K: Favorite for dinner? N: (smile) Yes, please ...

ArtAnimationFan

Fanservice aside, these recent drawings really show how well Tom has gotten with anatomy. The attention to detail regarding muscles and soft tissue is excellent. A lot of artists who draw this long seem to trip into the same pitfall where their characters look too muscular or too ridiculous in fanservice proportions, but he’s gotten better. Which is crazy considering how many drawings he’s done changing their proportions.

albedoequals1

Hasn't it been confirmed that she was just pretending to be a guy to survive in an environment hostile to women, and was temporarily confused by her brain damage and having her brother in her head?

Oswald

Thats one mighty doggy right there

Iago24

No it hasn't. Natani's quest for gender identity continues to the present day.

Spartan277

She looks amazing as always.

Spartan277

*cough cough cough* Las Lindas *Cough cough*

WereFox Aries

Woah nice 🥰 please color 😘

Dan Vaelling

Sweat works through vaporization, hard for it to do that with a layer of fur covering it

Dan Vaelling

It's been confirmed that's just what Zen thought, and that belief carried over when the link got established. Youngtani confirmed Nat was trans before the incident, and the fact that he says he feels no different with the link gone proves that he's trans beyond an shadow of a doubt.

NicktheDrago2225

Correction, They, they're currently gender confused and as such still exploring, thus use they/them as place holder

Trailblazers

He'd definitely smash you instead, and almost certainly not in the way you're implying ;)

Rinzydings

Cope yourself ❤️ Though it doesn't sound like you're coping well if you're replying to people in the comments just because you can't understand nuance or, god forbid, a reference sheet with clearly worded text of "male" for gender.

Timmainsson

They reunited after losing the link (remember?)

Dan Vaelling

Your both objectively wrong. Natani isn't confused, in fact he's never been more certain of his male identity. Youngtani confirmed Nat was trans before the link, and that he says he feels no different with the link gone proves that he's trans after.

Dan Vaelling

Natani is a trans guy. Transphobia isn't welcome here.

Dan Vaelling

Træd the comic Pac, Nat's explicitly stated to be trans both in and out of the comic.

Dan Vaelling

*He. Get it right or get out.

Dan Vaelling

Tom ought to start actively deal with the transphobia infecting the fandom.

Dan Vaelling

Another Natani sketch, another batch of illiterate transphobes.

Raven Jaxson

Will you just stop Dan? People can say whatever they want, Natani is a character and is not going to be offended by this.

Raven Jaxson

I bet Natani feels better letting the girls out after that workout. Even sweating Natani is still a beautiful and sexy wolf.

Raven Jaxson

Actually Dan....Youngtani only said that she liked being seen as a guy not saying that she is a guy. Two completely different things. That'd be like me saying I like being seen as a tiger while wearing a fur suit, doesn't mean I actually think I'm a tiger.

RavusFur

Love Natani, one of my crushes! 🥰❤️

Alex

Nat is transmasc and goes by he/him. Learn to be more respectful, thanks.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

You mean the same ref sheet that also states that Nat's Sex is Female (that actual determining factor) with a Male Mentality (which is now mostly gone with no Link, ty "Youngtani")?? I think we should relearn what words mean. :/

Gigafur

I definitely wanna see this in color. She’s gonna beautiful!

Alex

He. You know you're not supposed to be on Patreon if you're under 18, right?

Alex

He

Mikla

Love me some lady wolf :D

Alex

He. And Nat is, in fact, a dude.

Alex

Thank you Dan Vaelling! The transphobia is running wild here, everytime there's art of Natani.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Nah, Keith would never say such a demeaning thing. 😰

Daemon Blitzkrieg

@kfcroc18 the rules of ze Furry Anthropomorphs can vary greatly... especially with "fan service" 🧐😅

Alex

Nope. You're wrong on both fronts here, hun. Natani has been identifying as a man and presenting masculine since the very start of the comic. And people who go by they/them are not confused in the slightest, quite the opposite. We just don't identify as neither women nor men. I'm non-binary, go by they/them, and I couldn't be more sure about my gender identity. In fact, I felt confused until my late 20s, thinking that I'm a man and wondering why that feels wrong.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Admittedly, that's the reason I stopped following all the artists in the Kat Crew (think that's the old name): too much Bara and Bimbos, even on the smaller characters; and definitely a lack of Plot. Everything became samey across the whole team, ya know?? All except Tom & Twokinds

Alex

He. Nat's a trans guy. Some who's trans is born trans, the same way that someone who's cis is also born cis.

Alex

Absolutely! Nat has been identifying as a guy since the very start. And his story is a trans journey, including him forgiving his younger self.

Dan Vaelling

No. Transphobia should not be tolerated under any circumstances. Do you also think it's okay to use racial slurs when talking about fictional characters, or is it just trans people it's okay to insult? And Natani might be fictional, but Tom's trans fans that see the blatant transphobia in the comments are not, do you want them to feel unwelcome in this community? I've had multiple queer people thank me for making them feel welcome, despite the vocal bigoted minority and people like you supporting them.

Dan Vaelling

Wanting and liking to be seen as a gender other than your AGAB is literally the definition of being trans. Maybe you should take effort to educate yourself before talking about things you don't know the first thing about, Raven, so you don't end up spewing nonsense originating from nazi Germany's propaganda machine.

AlaricLives87

The transphobes really came out for this one, haven’t they? It’s truly pathetic having to read through all the same copy-and-paste slop that follows Natani sketches that gives you the impression they never even read the god damn comic. It’s bot behavior perpetrated by terrible people who cannot handle trans representation and have zero respect for trans fans. Screw them.

AlaricLives87

If transphobes don’t have selective memories regarding the comic, they’re just “straight” up making stuff up and make stupid analogies to demean and mock an entire community.

AlaricLives87

Proud of some of you for standing up to ignorance and transphobia

AlaricLives87

I wish he would but Tom might get a cease and desist letter from Amazon

hippiewerewolf

Sigh... maybe Natani's pronouns should be in the description? At this point anyone following the comic should be aware of them so there's no excuse. Having it put in front of people is a reminder for them to exercise good habits and helps anyone new that are just getting started.

AlaricLives87

Right? It would certainly save a lot of trouble for anyone who might simply misunderstand. Won’t stop the transphobes, mind you, but given how they act and despite all the facts presented to them (including Tom’s statements that Natani’s gender identity is male), they are completely detached from reality. I think it’s also worth noting to any trans fans who are unfortunately reading some of these comments that they are still welcome

Hunter_emerald07

Dam i can't wait what Will happened Keith reaction is XD lmao

firandor

She's gorgeous!

Dan Vaelling

You must be confused, Lady Wolf is from a different webcomic. This is Natani, who's not even a lady.

Dan Vaelling

The Legally Distinct Lads.™

Golden Gears

I have a question for you IcyNightMedic. Did you or did you not know that Nat is a trans man?

Golden Gears

Freakshow eh? Are you one of the last of the Anitfurs? It would only make sense with terminology like that.

Golden Gears

Projecting your weakness on to these people. Have you forgotten that you went out of your way to come here?

Alex

No, we won't stop Raven. Transphobia has to be called out and battled. You want us to stop calling you out and correcting you? Then how about YOU stop being transphobic first! Same goes for all the other transphobes here. For a comic with queer characters and a large queer following, there are far too many hateful people in this community.

Alex

Pac, "cisphobe" isn't a real word. Nobody hates cisgender people for existing. All we ask from cis people is to not hate us as well.

Alex

Pac Attack - Natani is a trans man and goes by he/him.

Artemis Vulpes

At this point it feels like Tom is trying to kill us. Awoo baby.

Alex

That would be nice. But to really deal with all the transphobes (and I don't mean people new to the comic, who see that Natani is AFAB without reading the whole thing, and incorrectly assume he's a woman), the creator themselves would have to not allow them in the community. And I'm not sure Tom would be able to do that here. On platforms like Discord, that's obviously much easier to do, with having moderators.

Alex

*He

Artemis Vulpes

Okay, genuinely wondering if some of the people commenting actually read the comic. They seem to be unaware that the chest bindings are magical and don't actually strap down one's breasts. Also that Nat identifies as a male, though I do get the instinct to use "she."

Alex

That's rich, coming from you Pac Attack. The only freaks here are you transphobes, for attacking and demeaning people, who just want to live as themselves. Being trans is not a fetish, it's a normal part of life. Would you say that being cis is a fetish for us trans folks? I highly doubt it. The only ones who fetishize trans people are you transphobes. Stop doing that, you're not helping anyone, and at the same time you're making yourself look like a total jackass.

AlaricLives87

It's an indictment of transphobes that they are so easily spotted and called out, as opposed to anyone new to the comic who might not be aware; the latter leads to healthier conversations and a better understanding

Alex

Pac Attack - Natani is a trans man and goes by he/him. Transphobia has no place in any community, especially ones with large queer presence, like this one. None of us will stop calling you out and reporting you for harassment. And using a transphobic slur is disgusting and extremely low from you. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Joshu Kel'Machan

I think this is something the community itself can actually address—and in fact already is, at least among those who are open-minded. In my view, a ban would be counterproductive: it would only deepen divisions and further reinforce echo chambers. Forums, like society in general, need to be able to withstand and engage with these kinds of discussions. And we should hold on to the hope that we can make a difference—even if I’ve personally picked up a block or two here for my views on this particular topic. Think of Natani. I believe that, with his newly gained self-confidence, he would see it the same way. 😉

AlaricLives87

Dammit, Joshu, you moved your comment as I was responding to you! Anyway, I've lost count of how many of these transphobes have blocked me, lol

Joshu Kel'Machan

What a choice of words, dear Pac Attack—just the right way to show who you really are. 🧐

Joshu Kel'Machan

Dear Pac Attack, why do I get the feeling that someone who calls a fellow participant an asshole is even less welcome here than those who point to facts? 🤔

Alex

Pac Attack - *His, *He's. Natani has been identifying as a man and going by he/him since the start of the comic, with the cast understanding and respecting that, and addressing him correctly. You would know it too, if you followed the comic for years, or cared to read back through the pages from the start. Instead of being hateful and attacking other people here, I suggest you spend your time better, and go do just that. This way, you'll not only realize how wrong you are, but also experience the whole yourney from the beginning, and see the leaps in Tom's artistic improvement over the years.

Joshu Kel'Machan

Sorry, Alaric—this was meant as a reply to Alex, but I misclicked. I’ve just scrolled further down, and now I’m starting to feel that I may have been a bit too optimistic earlier… But I still think it‘s the right way …

AlaricLives87

Having interacted with you well enough, I can understand your reasoning. Unfortunately, there is just no reason to reason with these people. Some names, I recognize; others seem to be popping up for the first time, and only for this sketch, and any other Nat sketch. It's no coincidence, just transphobia.

Joshu Kel'Machan

Dear Raven, yes, you’re right: the bits that make up Natani can’t be insulted—but people can. Take a quick look at the U.S.—just one example, admittedly an extreme one. It’s a world I, at least, wouldn’t want to live in. A world built on white, male arrogance, trampling everything else underfoot. And that world doesn’t begin at the ballot box; it starts wherever such views go unchallenged—even in a small, seemingly insignificant forum like this one. That’s why it’s important not to stop speaking up. Just my two cent.

Raven Jaxson

The so called transphobes are not the ones detached from reality. It's just the truth and reality, having a different pronoun does not automatically make you that sex. That's not how it works.

Joshu Kel'Machan

Yes, it’s not just a pronoun—it’s the whole person. And Natani shows everything that’s needed to understand, if one is willing to see.

AlaricLives87

When a transphobe must resort to "I'm not wrong, you're wrong," it just shows how desperate they are for attention. Doesn't make them any less terrible, just pathetic as well

AlaricLives87

And what seems to be conveniently ignored by these awful individuals every single time, Joshu, is that there are trans fans who are either subjected to these comments coming in or actively avoid this place as a result. Or, maybe that's the point, which makes these transphobes even worse.

Brocade

The Big, Bouncy Bros

Raven Jaxson

Transphobia and transphobe are actually not real words, they are just made up words used to label people who disagree with trans in general as terrible people when for the most part that is furthest from the truth. I see the world for what it is and I trust biology and science over people's feelings. People should be accepting their body for what it is, no amount of pronouns or surgery is going to change that. I don't even fit the definition of transphobe because I don't dislike or hate them at all. I am empathetic for what they are going through and want them to get help being themselves while accepting their body for what it is. 'Call' me out all you want but I am not changing my mind or convictions because I know that I am right and what I say is the truth.

Miva

i don't understand what the fuss is about must be an american culture thing. should this get a color version, what I would like very much because it looks great, the comment section is gonna burn again.

AlaricLives87

^ If a transphobe isn't overtly vile, they will project condescending compassion that can insult, offend, and ultimately demean trans people.

Raven Jaxson

You are the one who is terrible Alaric. You know nothing about me other than I have a different opinion on a topic than you and that somehow makes me a terrible person that deserves no respect or empathy. You are pathetic for judging someone as a terrible person based on one disagreement and anything you say about me besides that is just you making assumptions about me.

AlaricLives87

It doesn't have to, but the ongoing disrespect and transphobia that followed this sketch, and every other Natani sketch over the years, warrant a reply. It'll be answered again if this gets colored.

Joshu Kel'Machan

Being certain that you’re right is the first step on a path that can ultimately lead you astray. It means you’ve stopped learning—perhaps even stopped thinking. What defines us as human beings, as individuals, is not our bodies but our inner experience. Reducing someone to their body is, to me, demeaning—not just in the case of trans people. And that is in no way at odds with modern science.

Miva

would you hate me if I call him a she?

AlaricLives87

I will judge you for what you are: a bad person. You proved you were the last time we got into this when you were exposed for your transphobic nonsense repeatedly, and tried using Silver_Dragania as a prop for your BS. You're awful, a horrible human being. I will keep calling you out for that so get used to it.

AlaricLives87

Joshu here never disappointning with the wise words

AlaricLives87

Why would you do that when you referred to him by his correct pronoun first?

Raven Jaxson

Look Alaric....the brain is a complicated and powerful organ. There is a myriad of ways that it can trick you with almost all of them never been taken seriously as the truth, I say almost because when it comes to 'trans' somehow that is true and needs to be affirmed. The truth is that no 'trans' person will die if they don't get the affirmation they believe they need. The only way they could die is from suicide and that just screams mental health to me. We should be helping get to the bottom of what makes them feel uncomfortable and help them with reassurance that nothing is wrong with them and they can still be who you want to be.

Miva

i'm against hate. It all boils down to this. just don't hate. If you would have said yes than I think you are crazy.

AlaricLives87

Raven, you claim you're not a transphobe, but only transphobes go around talking or posting the same points you are making. Either you are sincerely delusional, or you know you're a transphobe and are a troll (but not a very good one at that).

Raven Jaxson

I wasn't using silver as a prop at all. I was merely mentioning that we were both saying the same thing that was it. That's just your opinion of me which you are allowed to have but you are wrong. I am actually a very good and caring person unlike you. I know people like you and I see right through your BS. I am even willing to bet money that you will get angry and want to cancel Tom if he goes the direction of having Natani be a masculine woman instead of 'trans'.

Joshu Kel'Machan

But trans people are harmed or even killed when they are attacked out of hatred. People with different views are harmed or even killed when they are attacked out of hatred. And that, sadly, is happening more and more again. That is the dark end of the road—and it doesn’t happen overnight. The ground has to be prepared for it. And that is exactly what we are seeing here: it begins with devaluation. And I have the feeling that this is, what many make feel uncomfortable right now …

AlaricLives87

So, that was a test of character?

AlaricLives87

You did, and he called you out on it. You were left scrambling. This is that detachment from reality I was talking about. But again, you're not a good person, and a transphobe. I won't tire of calling you out for it, either.

Miva

more like a setup to get my point across.

Alex

Raven - Sex, gender and gender identity are all distinct, different parts of a person. Every person, regardless of their identity. They're clearly defined terms, that we've known and distinguished, both scientifically and socially, for over a hundred years at this point, and by different terms and names historically, for thousands of years. They're as rooted in reality and facts as it can get. Sex assigned at birth doesn't dictate gender. Even tho for many cisgender folks, that might be confusing or more difficult to distinguish, because they never had to think about it. People will see and address you as a certain gender based on social clues and how you present, or the lack thereof and simply asking how to refer to you. Pronouns are a part of language (although not every language) and thus related to gender and gender identity. They have nothing to do with someone's sex assigned at birth. Gender is a social concept invented by us humans, to be able to refer to and better understand groups of people. Pronouns are only one small part of that. Different cultures, both past and present, have and had different understandings of gender. Even going back in time a few hundred years here in Europe, people would have VASTLY different ideas about gender. And because of that, not everyone will fit into those neat, predefined gender categories that society has made, because their gender identity (how we see ourselves and how we want others to address us) doesn't align with the gender others percieve them as. All in all, this isn't a new thing. Some countries, like Denmark for instance, have been legally recognizing and protecting trans identities for almost a hundred years. There's physical evidence, both written and archeological, that trans and non-binary people have existed, lived according to, and were both understood and accepted as their gender identity, for thousands of years. Some of it going back all the way to ancient Mesopotamia or even earlier. So, understand that as a society, we've always known trans and non-binary people to exist, going back as far as the very first civilizations. If scientifical and archeological evidence is not reality and a fact, then I'm afraid I don't know if anything is.

Raven Jaxson

I have no hatred in my heart for anyone and I do not condone any kind of violence against any human being for any reason. I don't want anyone to be harmed, I just want them to get help realizing there is nothing wrong with them. I'm not expecting people to act manly or girly at all just wanting them to accept their body for what it is and be who they want to be.

Raven Jaxson

I can't take you seriously when you say things like assigned at birth. No one is assigned anything, the doctor just observes and confirms what your biological sex is. You are forgetting context, there is probably context in a lot of these situations due to societal expectations of men and women. How many of them are doing it because society won't let them? Context matters!

firandor

I love her! So feminine! So beautiful!

Raven Jaxson

Words only harm if you allow them to harm you. Take me for example, you calling me a transphobe and terrible person does not harm me in the slightest. I know what kind of person I am and that's not going to change because some random person on the internet is saying I'm terrible because of just ONE thing they know about me. For all you know Alaric we could be good friends if I kept my beliefs in regards to trans silent.

ArtAnimationFan

For God’s sake people, it’s a freaking cartoon wolf. Who cares what pronoun people use to describe it? Not every post with it needs to blow up with people spitting venom back and forth. If you don’t like another person’s viewpoint or think they’re being a jerk, just block them and call it a day. You’re not going to change their opinion, so stop wasting your time or theirs.

Raven Jaxson

I also can't help to see that you completely ignored my bet Alaric. Should I take that silence as proof that I'm right in how you'd react?

Rinzydings

Pac: Natani has been flying solo for ages now and still views himself as a guy. He says this clearly to Zen on page 1036. He is constantly called he/him except by the literal damn villain. Flora calls him a guy on the beach before Clovis' attack immediately after being told why he binds. He has never been cis. Good lord, get over yourself already and stop replying to people in the comments with hate.

AlaricLives87

Sorry, not sorry. I don't entertain stupid wagers with transphobes.

Rinzydings

Daemon: Sex =/= Gender. He can have female bits and still identify as male, which he does. Said in another reply, he tells Zen he still thinks of himself as a guy on page 1036. The link is gone, but not how he views himself. Youngatani clearly tells him that Zen is the one who views him as the little sister, not Natani himself. He's always been this way.

AlaricLives87

The one thing I know about you is that you're a transphobe. Terrible enough, so far as I'm concerned, and especially because your words hurt trans fans. I cannot forgive nor tolerate it

Dan Vaelling

Miva, would you hate someone who calls you slurs every chance they get?

Raven Jaxson

Oh come now...surely it would be easy money for you if you're so convinced that Natani won't change. That kind of answer proves to me that you are not as confident as you portray yourself to be. I can sense that there is at least some doubt and a bit of belief that I could be right.

Joshu Kel'Machan

Am I seeing a pattern here, dear Pac Attack? Not just the belittling of trans people, but of women in general as well? Your words show who you are.

Miva

no it's their problem. why waste my time

AlaricLives87

.................ok, transphobe. Maybe get some help for a gambling addiction, too, if you're actually serious about throwing money around over devaluing a character's trans identity. It's not healthy, and neither is your bigotry.

AlaricLives87

It is a problem for those on the receiving end, though, and, according to some, dejection and devaluation follow, forcing them to avoid coming here. That doesn't sit well with me, so rather than go at these bigots with hatred, I do so out of love for trans fans.

Miva

^^nice. i know i make it sound easy but it's not. it took me about 15 years to not hate anymore. I can recommend it tho. forgiving is not for them but for you. also dont listen to anyone on the Internet 80% of them are trolls.

Raven Jaxson

I'm just telling the truth. Gender and gender identity mean nothing to me, just because you want to use feminine or masculine pronouns doesn't mean you are a guy or girl not even dressing in masculine or feminine clothes etc does it. If they were truly confident in themselves they would not let words hurt them at all. Just because I don't believe someone is trans does not mean I want them hurt or I don't see them as a human being. I do have respect for them as human beings and treat them as such.

AlaricLives87

If you had any respect and empathy for trans people, we wouldn't be having this discussion. You don't, but you are somehow still trying to convince us that your condescending compassion is valid. This isn't the first time I've had to tell you that you aren't fooling us. Won't be the last.

Raven Jaxson

There you go making assumptions again. I don't have a gambling addiction, I'm just seeing if you'll put money where your mouth is. Predictably...you won't because you are not confident enough.

Raven Jaxson

As I said before, I do have the common respect that all human beings should have. I do empathize with what they are going through, I simply disagree with the solution they believe is best to solve it.

1 week ago

Anytime Natani makes an appearance there is always war here…

feralcat52

Set them puppies free!

Joshu Kel'Machan

Don‘t hate, but speek up, when it seems necessary.

Drazgon

Mmm... Kinky... It tickles me so much I forgot furs don't sweat.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

A War of Choice by one side, which is pretty damning...

IcyNightMedic

Natani is not a trans-man. If she was, she would want to become more masculine by getting rid of her feminine parts, but she's accepted being a female over time. Question for you "Golden Gears", did you know Natani, this wolf that doesn't exist and is only apart of a comic book, has gender dysphoria making her more masculine mentally due to her soul being departed from her body and stuck to endure her brothers for so long? This doesn't make her trans in any way. She's gotten so used to being in his body for years that she wasn't used to having a female body. There's nothing wrong with her being a tomboy, but it seems all of you that push this "oh she's a trans man and instead a he" doesn't seem to realize that woman can act like men as men can act like women. There's nothing wrong with that, they don't need to be pushed to change their bodily proportions. This goes back into people being able to be a tomboy or a tomgirl.

IcyNightMedic

And I'd like to add that I do not condone all of these split remarks as its causing hatred through the community. We do not need this in the slightest mainly with how bad the world is right now. And I am also not a "transphobe" as others may possibly now say as I support my trans friends. I just do not support false narratives.

Alex

Raven - That's literally what it's called: sex assigned at birth. The doctor is assigning you sex, based on your primary sex characteristics and other criteria. And the reason we differentiate between sex assigned at birth and just sex, is that it works differently for intersex, transgender and non-binary people. Also, sex is always biological, so there's no need to word it as "biological sex". That's why we differentiate between sex and gender. The first is based on biology, the second on society.

ArtAnimationFan

Which it doesn’t have to be. Like seriously, it’s a fictional drawn wolf, who cares what pronoun people use? And if you don’t like someone here, just block them. It’s not rocket science.

Raven Jaxson

That's not what it is. The doctor isn't assigning anything. You have male or female characteristics then you are male or female. Simple!

Alex

Art, blocking someone doesn't solve the issue. This isn't necessarily about any particular character, but about transphobia itself. I myself am non-binary, there's other trans and enby folks here, and we do get negatively impacted by transphobes being hateful towards a character, because that transphobia automatically extends to all of us. You ask "who cares?". Well, fictional characters are often an extension and portrayal of someone, something, or agroup of people from the real world. In this case, that would be us, trans and enby people. So that's why we care.

Alex

Well Raven, luckily the validity of trans and enby people doesn't care about your disagreement or opinion.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Rinzy, to be 1000% clear: Gender (Identity) DOES NOT DETERMINE IF someone is Male or Female. That's solely on the Sex of said character/person; what one Says has Zer0 weight over the reality of their Sex. You can either keep lying to yourself, or accept it and move on with your life. Key example: Natani, a Masculine character who is Female; just like any other Tomboy. There's legitimately nothing more to it than that.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

"Identity" =/= Sex, nor does it ever supercede it.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Hippie: "Identity" =/= Sex, nor does it ever supercede it. Natani's Sex is plainly marked as Female. Please respect it. Pac.... plz chill the F out 😮‍💨

firandor

Mommy Natani!

Raven Jaxson

The problem is that you guys are taking it so personally when the comment is just about the character and not anyone else in the community. You all take the disagreement from me...I'm not talking about the people who hate because I don't condone it but see even disagreement as some kind of denial of your existence. That is not the case, you do exist as a human being and no one is denying that or the basic human rights that you have. You are making the fact you are trans or non binary as your whole identity which is not a good thing.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Honestly my Block finger is getting itchy today... Idk where all these other folks came from but I guess it's been too quiet for this Patreon anyway. Either way, I can never respect someone who 1) can't respect another's choices and 2) will actively heckle them until they agree. It's pure Narcissism Art & 1week, and none of us will know peace again because of it. (hey Raven, you ghost posted before me 😰😂) I'm only sorry for Tom about all this 😑

Rinzydings

Daemon: Sex does not make or break someone. You are defining someone down to potential chromosomes and reproductive parts without any regard to the way they identify themselves, and that is harmful for everyone. It is not difficult to understand that someone feels different about themself (there is a Big difference between a tomboy and a transman who purposefully binds, wants to be called he/him, and is mortified by the idea of people knowing he has breasts). Natani is a man because he views himself as a man and identifies as a man. End of discussion. There is no "lying to myself" going on, I just have basic understanding of gender identity. YOU and Pac are the ones hopping around the comments trying to push your own rhetoric, I am only firing back because YOU jumped onto MY comment. We will get nowhere with this, because I will not budge, and I already know you won't either considering your responses to people. Have the day you deserve.

Raven Jaxson

Obviously they do care because you are calling me a transphobe. If you truly didn't care about my opinion or disagreement then I wouldn't be called a transphobe.

ArtAnimationFan

Alex, I can promise you as sure as the sun will rise and set, you can’t solve any issues here. Arguing with people in a place they go to look at art will not only not change any minds, but only solidify the their mindsets on the ideas you dislike. Even more so when you label them terms that don’t apply.

AlaricLives87

This is what I’m talking about and why I fight such trash that stinks up Patreon. Someone like Alex opens up about their identity, and tells you that your words hurt Raven, and you diminish and devalue their identity, which is their existence no matter how you try and twist it. Shut up.

ArtAnimationFan

I worry too Daemon, but I’m sure he’s already aware of the silly conflict that arises each time he draws Natani. If people want to throw hissy fits, they will. It’s the internet after all.

AlaricLives87

Considering the way you just responded to Alex in another thread, above, calling you a horrible person isn’t an assumption, but a fact we knew all along about you. Mask off yet again, transphobe. You truly are a part of the problem of why Patreon has the reputation it has in the fandom

AlaricLives87

Your opinion is garbage, Raven, because you are a transphobe.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Indeed, there's definitely a difference between a Tomboy and a "Trans" Man, but not what you think it is; clearly. I "jumped" into your comments because it's categorically wrong; and everything since the 1st. A shame, but good day

hippiewerewolf

Daemon, I did not once refer to Natani's biological sex, so I dont know where you see me disrespecting it. I have even used the character's proper noun to avoid the use of a gendered pronoun. Lastly, all you folks being belligerent about "respecting" some facet of the character can look to the character bio that the creator and author has put on the website of the comic. Your personal preferences are not authoritative.

AlaricLives87

Were it so easy for them to read “Gender: Male” and the masculine pronouns used throughout his bio, you’d think it’d be settled, Hippie. Alas, according to these creeps, Tom is trying to avoid being canceled by us pronoun police 🙄

Raven Jaxson

I'm not dimmishing or devaluing anyone's identity. I'm just saying any disagreement they perceive as a personal attack and denial of their existence. Nobody can demand people use preferred pronouns. That's not how pronouns work, pronouns are used when talking about someone to others whether in that person's presence or not. They just want to control other people's speech.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Indeed, but Pronouns don't supercede Sex either. When we refer to Natani as *she*, it's because Natani is a Female. It Is Factually Correct To State So, Nor Is It Insulting To said Character/Person. ITS IS Disrespectful, however, to continue to call/say Natani a Male when even she knows that's incorrect and has so from the start. That's been the entire plot of the Gender-confused Wolf: a Female Wolf who thinks & wants you to think they're Male, even though not only does she but we know that's not true. A plot lost on folk like you pushing your PERSONAL AND ACTUAL Gender Ideology agenda on the rest of us, those who (belligerently so, your own words) don't make the Social Construct of Gender our entire existence. Oh, and then proceed to force it on everything and everyone under the sun, by actively reinforcing gender stereotypes; not freedom. 🙄 But you think it over & have a good day ~

hippiewerewolf

Folks cherry-pick lore, and then try to justify their own poor behavior. I kinda want to create a pronoun based on people "appearing like a bitch" and see how fast they start policing my speech.

Raven Jaxson

Well...that's your opinion. Not everyone agrees with you.

Crimson

yes a woman identifying as guy trans read the comic

Alex

Raven, why do you make being a transphobe your entire personality? I think that's not a good thing.

Alex

Yeah Raven, because..that's kinda how pronouns work? You use them to refer or relate to another person indirectly.

1 week ago

You guys. Let’s just settle down a bit. This is probably not going to go anywhere. Let’s make peace…

Raven Jaxson

There wouldn't be so much fighting if you and a few others stopped 'correcting' people. You comment what you want on the post and let others comment what they want. Mind your own business.

firandor

No, that's me.

Alex

Thank you for standing up for me, Alaric! I'll be just fine tho, none of what these clowns say has the ability to affect me personally, after all the things my own "mother" has called me and done to me. But I will always stand up for other queer people and fight hate, injustice and disinformation. If thanks to me even just a single transphobe realizes they're being a horrible person and causing harm to others, and decide to become a better, supportive person, then my life is complete.

Alex

Raven, we'll stop correcting ya'll when you stop being transphobic and intentionally misgendering a trans character.

AlaricLives87

Way to gaslight this whole conversation into an issue of free speech, Raven, you slimy twit. It’s your transphobia at issue here and I won’t cut you any breaks until you knock it off.

AlaricLives87

Alex, I admire your attitude taking the high road, but regardless, people like Raven offend me, and I have zero tolerance for what he’s pulling with you

Raven Jaxson

Luckily for you Alex, I'm neither a horrible person or a transphobe. I'm a very loving and caring person.

firandor

I don't know why you keep saying "he" and "trans." She's a captivating, muscular tomboy! And I love her!

Alex

Raven, things are never so simple, pretty much everything in life isn't just black or white. Likewise, sex is a spectrum. Not everyone who's AFAB (assigned female at birth) or AMAB (assigned male at birth) will have all of the/the same primary and secondary sex characteristics, same with chromosomes. And intersex people literally have various ranging combinations of them, making them not distinctly male or female.

Alex

You show your love and care in very unloving and uncaring ways then.

AlaricLives87

No, Raven. You and your toxic band of ugly transphobes don’t get that luxury. You are our business and you will continue to be corrected for using the wrong pronouns and disrespecting trans fans the way you do. That goes for you too, Firandor. You know exactly what you’re doing. Natani is transmasc and uses he/him pronouns. Read the comic

AlaricLives87

They’re not even cherry-picking anymore. They are just making shit up now and use it it go off on transphobic rants. You should have seen them when the Awkward Wake Up Keith and Nat sketch dropped because that was insane but I think I can safely say this has reached that level now

firandor

But it is you, sir, who uses the wrong pronouns!

AlaricLives87

I don’t care that you and other transphobes don’t agree with me. I’m glad actually

Raven Jaxson

Just because I disagree with the idea of trans and nonbinary doesn't mean I'm horrible and don't care. You are a human being and you do exist. I do acknowledge and respect that, should count for something at least.

Raven Jaxson

I don't think calling normal people like myself transphobes is a smart or good thing to do. You're alienating a lot of people by doing that.

DarthKeidran

Depends on the material. I’d ballpark it between 20 and 50 lbs (9 to 23kg) depending on the material depicted.

Raven Jaxson

There you go with the name calling again which I have not done once today. It is not your job or duty to protect and correct people. Anybody in that community can either ignore my comments or block me. They don't need you or anyone else to be their 'hero'.

ArtAnimationFan

Yeah Spartan, that is one I was thinking of. In a lot of way his art has gotten better in quality, but to me his best/hottest figures were around 2014-2016.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Actually I'm surprised that one dude (Net-something, with a keidran avy) hasn't appeared yet. Maybe this "Pac" is taking over for him, in a really this-may-be-a-bot kind of way... 🤔

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Then Coop: plz link the exact page where Natani clearly states "I am (a) Trans (Man)". Once you do, I'm sure that'll own all of us on the other side... 🧐

AlaricLives87

It is neither a job nor duty, but the right thing to do. You don’t get to speak for our community or decide how they feel when they have been telling you this whole time how they feel about what you say. I’m nobody’s hero, but rather, your biggest pain in the ass until you show more respect or GTFO.

Raven Jaxson

I'm not leaving, I have every right to be here and enjoy this online comic book and the characters in it. I do have respect for them that I do for every human being and I do acknowledge that as human beings they do exist. That's the only kind of respect they are getting from me which is basic human respect, if that's not good enough for you or them then that is their problem not mine.

AlaricLives87

You neither acknowledge or respect Alex when you call being trans or non-binary an idea, which is grossly false. It’s a part of a human’s identity and you don’t respect that. Hence, you are not a good person and are not fooling us (didn’t I tell you it wouldn’t be the last time I’d say that). You’re a broken record.

AlaricLives87

You really are a one big gaslighting transphobe, aren’t you? You like throwing around words like “respect” and “human beings” to get your few likes but everything you’ve been doing is contrary to that. You shouldn’t be their problem but you cannot resist making a complete ass out of yourself just so this can be a less welcoming place for LGBTQ+ fans. Until that changes, I’m your problem, Raven.

Raven Jaxson

Like I said elsewhere, I have basic human respect for them that I would expect from anyone. They are human beings and do exist, I see them as equals, I don't think of them as lesser than at all. That would be disrespectful. If they didn't bring attention to the fact they are nonbinary or transgender than I wouldn't care about any of this at all. I don't take kindly to being demanded to refer to them as something else or be labeled a horrible person if I don't. That's not something a normal person would do.

Raven Jaxson

Well then as the Joker says in the Dark Knight "I think we are destined to this forever."

AlaricLives87

There is the condescending compassion, as usual. Also, seems you really like to gaslight people when you’re called out for your shit. This is all their fault now for being trans or non-binary? Literally the hell they go through every day: simply existing. According to you, that is not only their fault, but they’re forcing it upon you. Poor you, trans and non-binary people exist. Oh the humanity! You are textbook example of a transphobe and bigot.

AlaricLives87

So you’re quoting a movie now? Seems I was correct in not only calling you a transphobe, but also a troll, and not a very good one at that

Trood

If I'm not mistaken, Natani identifying as male is only because her literal soul is intertwined with her twin brother's by a curse. Which is why she feels like she should be male, meaning she likely wouldn't've felt that way if she hadn't been bound to her brother like that, she'd still see herself as a female. With all that said she biologically isn't and I think it's actually healthier to accept your body the way it is instead of mutilating or hiding/covering it to cater to your subjective sense of self. I'd also say that Natani's example is different from gender dysphoria in real people being that she never actually felt that until her soul was magically altered with . In summary, before you blow up and call my transphobic... I genuinely have a lot of empathy on what real people go through and experience. I can't begin to imagine going through life feeling like I'm in the wrong body, but I know for a fact that treating your healthy body like it's the part that's defective and not the part of your brain that's telling you your the opposite sex is just not right. Like if I said I see purple triangle trees in the clouds you'd correctly assume that I'm schizophrenic and try and help me instead of affirming it and giving legitimacy to my illusion even though it runs counter to the reality.

AlaricLives87

You’re not normal and there are not as many of you as you want us all to think there are. In fact, the very reason why you are so loud and obnoxious about your views is because you’re desperate. Your numbers are dwindling and you feel threatened by the amount of fans positive representation like Natani’s trans identity brings. All credit to Tom and his evolution as an artist and storyteller. You can’t handle that

Raven Jaxson

That's basically what they are doing, forcing people to use their preferred pronouns out of 'respect' or be labeled a horrible evil transphobe bigot. All I ask is just act normal, you can be trans or nonbinary and still act like a normal person. Your identity and personality has nothing to do with what sex or gender you are, you are still you no matter what. It's not respectful to demand people that don't agree with something to respect it or be labeled a terrible human being.

AlaricLives87

The more you respond with this stuff, the worse you come off. You don’t care, though. But you’ll turn around in a few comments and say “I respect human beings. Human beings should exist. I’m not terrible.” You are. Any normal person who reads your response will find you to be truly ugly.

Raven Jaxson

Seemed appropriate given how stubborn we both are in our beliefs.

AlaricLives87

It wasn’t appropriate. Nothing you’ve said is appropriate and you’re running out of things to say, it seems

Raven Jaxson

You're wrong Alaric, this isn't the internet world where you are only subject to people that believe the same as you. People like you are in the minority. In the real world there are a whole like more people like me, majority of them just stay quiet and want to be left alone. There are millions of people on Earth, maybe more but I'm being modest that have the exact same beliefs and opinions as me. So...are you really calling millions of normal people transphobes?

Raven Jaxson

How about this then....I won't comment on any posts from here on out. I'll just read the comic and look at the beautiful artwork silently like I have been for years before finally speaking up. Is that good enough for you?

Patrick Horton

Those are some heavy SOBs if that's true. I got a pair of 10s and they are just enough to give me resistance when I exercise, or should be. However, 20 to 50 are like a full sack of potatoes or a cast-iron tank in each hand. Like ouch. They're less Assassin and more BattleMage at this point.

kfcroc18

God, I just asked a question about sweating while being covered in fur. I didn't think it would start a flame war!

Markvincible

Bunch of transphobia in this comment section

AlaricLives87

You have a lot of overinflated self-importance to compare yourself and what you think to everyone else in the world. Your arguments are weak, especially when you have to continuously say “I’m not, you are,” and it’s the cries of a desperate and lonely person who takes it out on trans and non-binary people and whatever represents them.

AlaricLives87

You clearly are not reading the same comic and yes, this is transphobic.

AlaricLives87

I don’t know, maybe? It says a lot that THIS is what you chose to speak up about. If that’s what brought you here, maybe you should have stayed quiet.

firandor

My Goddess would prefer the silence of those who slander Her identity.

Abstract Indigo

It's actually really nice to see more feedback on the artistic and technical elements of Tom's work. Just wanted to give kudos to that.

AlaricLives87

You’re very weird. Also, *God and *His

firandor

I am referring to Goddess Natani, very different from Abrahamic God.

AlaricLives87

And now you just got weirder invoking religion into this.

Raven Jaxson

On second thought...I'll just block you instead. Win win for both of us. You don't see my comments and I won't see yours.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Bunch of people who don't force gender ideology down other folks throats in the comment section

Daemon Blitzkrieg

When it comes to Natani and the troop of Gender warriors...it unfortunately usually does Croc18. 😮‍💨

AlaricLives87

Oh, you’re very original a transphobe. You look silly.

firandor

May Her light guide you to the path of true, womanly beauty!

firandor

She is more a woman than you will ever be!

firandor

MAJESTIC Lady Wolf.

Spartan277

We don't play that game any more, She has tits, she has a vagina, She.

Artemis Vulpes

The hell you on about? Aint no one claiming Nat is biologically female. If you are truly someone that insists on using female pronouns despite the obvious than yeah, you are a transphobe.

Artemis Vulpes

TL;DR. Nat identifies as male, been established since the beginning. Reasons don't matter.

Artemis Vulpes

Your entire argument boils down to "you cannot tell me what to do." And you are right, but we can call you out for being a dick.

K_D Lawrence

Natani has always been the best tomboy. She is so built, and beautiful. A good fit for Keith since other best boy soulmate got KOed.

K_D Lawrence

Hahaha, straight from the banana farms. These posters have become low key, lol cows now.

Drazgon

I'd say Laura would have been the best partner for Keith. So... loving... and loyal.

Raven Jaxson

I could actually care less what you refer to me as because I don't get hurt easily. I know who I am and that's all that matters. It's not my fault that people who believe they are trans or nonbinary are so mentally fragile and have self image and confidence issues that they get upset over their pronouns not being used. It upsets them because deep down they know the truth that they can never truly be what they want to be.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Shep & Vulpes: I do believe you're both confusing/conflating the "being **seen** as a boy" line as a desire to actually **be** a Male. Youngtani reassured her that she actually likes being Masculine (which is again NOT a desire to be a Man) and that it's not just Zen's influence, along with some Femininity ofc. That's a textbook Tomboy & the clear difference between Natani (& So Many Other Characters) and your label of "Trans".

Artemis Vulpes

I actually facepalmed IRL. Natani has on numerous of occasions, including after breaking the bond with Zen and reconnecting with their effeminate side that they identify as male. The ONLY THING that has changed is Nat is now more comfortable with his female body, but has made it clear still sees themself as a guy. I really do not get people trying to somehow "interpret" what is going on when the character is telling you "I am a dude."

AlaricLives87

Ok, transphobe. Also, *his and *manly

AlaricLives87

Ok, transphobe. Also, *he and *man

AlaricLives87

I sometimes really should for my mental health, but ultimately, when you get a few transphobes to block you and see others starting to speak up against them, too, it's worth it.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Saying "I'm a dude" and actually being a Male are 2 Entirely Different Things, a concept folk like you wishing it to be true can't seem to grasp. So yeah, I'd be facepalming too if I couldn't understand such simplicity. :/ One's "Identity" Does Not Supercede One's True Sex; even more so when that identity wasn't their choice to begin with. Because, ya know, pretty sure the side affects of the Link was Natani's choice. 😑

Artemis Vulpes

Oh, okay so you are just a transphobe.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

T-phobe, the word used implying Fear (which I don't, none of us do) yet only means & used for Disagreements... I means sure, if that's what you wanna believe. Facts don't change because of the Opinions you have of those you disagree with. 🤨

Artemis Vulpes

And yet you argue against facts because of belief. A silly child hiding behind opinion an semantics but dare say they speak truth. You know very well what people mean when using that term, a false ignorance shall not shield you. You have been presented with a reality and your only real response seems to be "I don't care." Then so be it, take and wear the label of bigot with pride. I am however done, there is naught else to say and arguing has proven fruitless.

firandor

*Her *Womanly, effeminate wonderfulness!

AlaricLives87

I do hold out *just a shred* of hope that a healthier conversation and understanding can come of it, if only with just one person. Rare, but it happens. Given the way this site is set up, though, transphobes feel safe doing what they do. If it takes 200+ comments to push back, so be it.

AlaricLives87

You must be another little transphobic bot. Ok, still *he, manly, & masculine wonderfulness

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Random Side Note: this has got to be the largest One-Sided Gender War post ever; 330(+1) and likely counting?? We have "Fun" around here at the TwoKinds Patty-Reon Ranch~ 💖💀

AFrickinDwarf

It’s not a mark of fragility to show frustration with people *constantly* telling you you aren’t who you say you are and wanting people to show you the same respect they used to afford you before you changed your name and the length of your hair. If you were subject to constant criticism about who you are, I guarantee you would find it very annoying after a while. “your name’s not actually Raven, is it?” or “you’re not a real ____ because [dumb excuse that doesn’t make sense when you look at it even a little].” Make an honest attempt and ask yourself why you’re the gender you are. Don’t just fall into some thought terminating cliché, actually think about it. Have you ever had a chromosome test? Do you know the chromosomes of all the people you’ve ever interacted with when you assumed their gender? What clothes are associated with your gender? Do they differ from other cultures in other times? Are the people in those other cultures any less men or women because of that? Can you think of someone who you recognize as your gender despite them not having an allegedly requisite body part (penis, uterus, etc.)? Are people who aren’t fertile still your same gender? What does testosterone or estrogen do to the body? What happens if someone goes from having mostly one to the other?

firandor

I don't think that slur has the power you think it has. But it is okay. She is a shining beacon for females everywhere, who can be strong and proud of their femininity at the same time.

AlaricLives87

Not a slur, cupcake. *He is a shining beacon for trans men and women everywhere, who can be strong and proud of themselves and ought to be protected from transphobes like you.

firandor

Ah! A cisphobic bot. Now I see. You cannot comprehend truth or beauty, and so must defile and corrupt all else to match you; if only so you hate your reflection less. But She shall cast light upon you, and reveal the monster in denial!

Artemis Vulpes

The short answer is yes, you are all bigots. You are very openly so, but for some reason are defensive about being called out. Guess because in your mind you are a "good person." I don't know you, maybe you are in other regards. But on this topic, no sir. You are the bad guy.

AlaricLives87

Oh, so I’m cisphobic for calling out your transphobia now? That’s a new one. Great, I’m honored :) Now please show a little respect and use masculine pronouns

firandor

You confuse respect with submission, my good sir! You may have whatever depraved fetishes and perversions upon yourself that you desire; I must respect your right to do so, and cannot interfere. But I hold no obligation to submit to or participate in them. What you seek is to bend others to your fantasies, and you call it respect. It is ego and narcissism you wish to have fulfilled. And I, too, shall wear the slurs you throw with honor.

AlaricLives87

There it is. Didn’t actually take too long to expose your horrible and bigoted attitude. It’s taken longer with some people lately, but not you. Regardless, you’re no better. Funny you accuse me of perversion and fetishizing when you seem to have quite the fascination with the word “submission.” Whatever it is, it’s none of my business, so I’ll just continue to ask that you be respectful and use the correct pronouns and stop misgendering the character. It would be very much appreciated

firandor

You shall receive no such gratification. Sling your hateful words all you desire; they illuminate your hypocrisy. Be as intolerant to those who surround you as you wish; you will only convince others you are vile. In the end, if others really were as hateful as you thought, have you done anything other than prove them right?

Skye

he looks so goooood!! guys after a workout are always so hot…

AlaricLives87

Rather than be continuously weirded out by your faux sermon talk, I’ll just keep calling out your bigotry and ask that you show respect. Natani is transmasc and uses he/him pronouns

firandor

And you shall never know victory or success! Real talk, though. You know scrolling through the comments and picking fights at every opportunity isn't winning your people any brownie points, right? Not a lot of people are going to think "Wow, this guy's such an a-hole, I'll change my ways immediately!" If anything, they're just gonna dig in deeper. People who considered trans to just be another part of life are now going to have a bitter taste from the random interaction from you, staining the reputation of all other trans. You're not making anything better for yourself and others, you're making it WAY worse. Now there's an impression of "Wow, these people really ARE insufferable, I don't like them." Does that make sense?

AlaricLives87

Actually, it’s just you and the other transphobes who spam Natani sketches that I concern myself with because according to those few of you, being trans isn’t natural and doesn’t deserve any dignity and respect, whether it be said transmasc character, or those fans who feel less welcomed here because of you. I know I can’t change your mind, but that isn’t what I’m trying to do with you. I’m just not letting you get away with posting all this slime. Transphobia won’t be tolerated. If that makes me insufferable and unlikable to you, I’m glad :)

firandor

If it requires surgery and specialized medication to achieve, it probably isn't natural. But the question remains: The block button exists. Anyone can just mute you whenever they want. What are you hoping to achieve in this manner? If you know you're not going to change any minds, and you know people can opt out of even ever getting notified that you said something, what is the actual goal here? Bully random strangers until only your echo remains? We'll still be here, just free of you.

AlaricLives87

Being trans is natural, I assure you. Bigotry, on the other hand, is abnormal. Usually, it’s a sign of repression but can also signal lack of intelligence. It’s simply the right thing to call that out, too, even if it has to go on for 300+ comments.

firandor

My man, all I'm getting from you is broken record responses. Insult this, insult that, illiterate bigot, yadda yadda. Does this really take up THAT much space in your brain? I woke up to notifications from you. Apparently, you lose sleep over this. Is the argument itself your goal? Do you just enjoy the keyboard warrior life?

AlaricLives87

Better to be a broken record than a transphobe

firandor

No, no, I'd definitely rather be transphobic/transmisic than be you.

AlaricLives87

All the more reason for me to be every notification you get on here now, transphobe

Daemon Blitzkrieg

This firandor...a true patient warrior. I welcome ye to the non-fight for the Enjoyment of Art & Tomboys + Femboys~ 👏🏾👏🏾 (but fr damn, I think you have more patience than even me or Raven 😅 props)

The Flaming Rabbit

And the more you react to them the more the'll keep it up. Both sides need to drop it. Its a damn drawing and doesn't exist. If it was a person that would be different but it isn't. They say that shit because they know it'll get people like you pissed off and rage at them. And you did, repeatedly. You're giving them exactly what they want, to be pissed off over a fucking drawing of an imaginary character.

AlaricLives87

If you read a single comment in here then you know it’s about far more than just a “fucking drawing of an imaginary character.” It’s about trans people.

firandor

I'm just as bad as he is, honestly. He's here for conflict, and while I originally came here to comment on Tom's sexiest art of all time, I stayed because I saw some dude having a psychological meltdown over people saying "she." He's been throwing insults at people that are more than likely genuinely decent people who would pull him out of a fire even if they knew who he was. But I'm probably the one that's actually closest to being the sort of person he hates. I'm just another internet troll.

firandor

And as for Denial87.... *Ahem* If for all eternity you shall spew your vitriol, then for all eternity shall our Goddess Natani refute you in her Radiant, female, girlish yet strong ways!

Elvenhunter84

This comment section is why a lot of artists refuse to draw Twokinds stuff

Alex

I get that, all the transphobia and bigotry isn't easy to deal with.

K_D Lawrence

Yea I remember on a site where an artist was quite harassed by some of the people. It was never this bad when I first started reading this comic back in 2010-2011. 2016 is when a lot of fandoms became enshitified.

Markvincible

There’s only so much you can ignore

AlaricLives87

I’m here because people like you don’t make this an acceptable place to be part of. If an eternity is how long it takes before something gives, then so be it. Trans fans are worth that fight and you are mistaken if you think I hate you. I don’t do this because I despise transphobes, I do it because I love the trans community. If you and your friends were as decent as you claim to be, we wouldn’t be having this conversation in the first place.

Alex

The Flaming Rabbit - For you, it might just be "a f-ing drawing of an imaginary character", but for trans folks who read TwoKinds, Natani is a character representating and embodying their own journey and struggles in real life.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

This is how the Gender wars go: What is Popular must be Labeled/Claimed/Forced under a Flag with the insane expectation that everyone before them will be okay with it. We will Never be okay with it, even more so with the constant the flood of insults for not seeing things their way. It is indeed, very tiring.

firandor

The hypocrite cries victim as he lashes out at me! He lays the first blow! He screams slurs! And then he begs for mercy when his opponent but raises an open palm!

Raven Jaxson

All I am seeing is a bunch of gotcha questions that you already know the answers to. None of those questions remotely have to do with identity at all. Clothes don't mean anything, we wear clothes so that we aren't cold and to protect us from the weather. I don't actually think about my gender at all, I'll have you know. I'm just me and what gender I am is just a small part of who I am. The problem nowadays is people are making gender much more important than it is, it's just a small part of your identity that you shouldn't even think about. I am confident that I would still be who I am even as the opposite gender.

Trood

Someone linked the part of the comic for me where she states how she liked being seen as a boy so I was wrong on that front my bad. Also the term "transphobic" is kinda of a misuse of the suffix "phobia" because it implies that I have an irrational fear of trans people which is obviously ridiculous lol. Regardless I'm sorry you feel that way about what I said, just wanted to share some rationality on the topic✌️

Trood

Alright gotcha, I was in fact mistaken on the comic reference portion of my statement then, thank you for correcting me.

Sernard

Keith is hidden in the locker to spy on his bf I bet

Sernard

So many can't wrap around their head that a transman can get boobs, it's funny.

AFrickinDwarf

Yes. And sticking your nose in other people’s business, telling them they’re not actually whatever gender they say they are, is you bringing up gender and making it a bigger thing than it has to be. Believe people when they say they are the gender they say they are so we don’t have to keep having this conversation and trans people can have their gender be as small a part of their identity as yours is for you. My questions are only gotchas because my position is arrived at from reality, reason and logic while yours is arrived at from fear, ignorance and hate. Choose love, stop being a bigot

AlaricLives87

*He. Rationality goes hand in hand with acceptance.

Raven Jaxson

Haha you are hilarious. Reality, reason and logic? That is not even remotely true and if you truly believe that then you are delusional. I don't fear or hate anyone who believes they are trans, that is just you making the assumption that I do. I just want them to get the real help they deserve and learn to be comfortable in their natural body. Just because a person says they are a man or a woman does not mean that's what they are. Those are not just something you can call yourself, it's something you are born as. If you are born a woman then you can never be a man no matter how you dress or what surgeries you have, same thing goes for someone born a man can never be a woman.

Raven Jaxson

Correction....Natani didn't just get boobs, Natani always had boobs because she is female and was born with them.

Alex

*He

Alex

Right. So many bigots boiling down someone's identity to parts of their body.

Raven Jaxson

What you are born as is what makes you who you are. You can't deny that fact no matter how much you want to. You can still be you despite that.

Everlight ⨺⃝

Raven, gonna walk you through this. Female is a Sex. natani is female. Man is a gender. Natani is also a man. every major medical and scientific body more or less reinforces the existence and validity of trans folks. tom has stated multiple times in and out of story that Nat is a guy, prefers he/him pronouns, carries himself as a guy, dislikes being seen as a girl, etc. you're not standing up for reality when science disagrees with you. you're just refusing to address someone by their preference when it has no detriment to you.

Everlight ⨺⃝

good, you can read. yes, man is a gender term not a sex term. noone is claiming natani is male, though there's likely to be some realization of that in the near future if his secret comes out. but he is a man, regardless the bits he's stuck with for now.

Raven Jaxson

If Natani is not a male then she can't be a man. The English language is weird, we have words that mean the same thing. Man and male are interchangeable, we refer to males as men and females as women. Therefore a male cannot be a woman and a female cannot be a man.

lilveemo1

Still don’t understand how you can be a furry AND be transphobic… YOU’RE LITERALLY A FURRY! 😂

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Easy: the very separate two things have absolutely ZERO correlation... so huh??

Everlight ⨺⃝

i've got multiple biology textbooks that say you're incorrect on that. you're allowed to disagree with modern science but you'll be treated the same as an anti-vaxxer about it.

Sernard

Also half of the bonus comics where genderbending everyone is involved Nat is consistently the only one hyped for it and disappointed when it ends.

Sernard

You know the english language isn't the only one in existence ?

Sernard

Someone is trying very hard to convince themselves here.

lilveemo1

No… I’m saying because being a furry is a “weird” thing (not really just a “not normal” thing) and MOST are part of the LGBTQ+

CrosserBow

To every transphobe here: Nobody is going to shed a tear for you when you're gone and the world is a better place without you. Natani is male, deal with it.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

...yeah, that's not how that works tho. 🧐 But if you wanna know why *anyone* would have a problem with "TQs" (not LGB, the Furries I have to assume you meant), check comments like CrosserBow up there VS comments like K_D Lawrence down below. The story writes & tells itself, furry or not, on why people aren't playing ball with them nowadays. :/

Raven Jaxson

Wow....aren't you just so kind and respectful hmmm? I would never say this to anyone that I simply disagreed with. Maybe someone truly vile and evil who has done terrible things with no remorse but not to a normal person who believes something different than you.

victoria

pretty lame remark to make, daemon. there's more value in simply respecting someone's identity and beliefs than there is arguing for the word of some bigots who just want to make the world worse for everyone who doesn't fit their standards. stories bring all sorts of people together and what's written isn't up for us to decide. it's not hard to read Natani as a male, and it's pretty in your face about it if you actually bother to read the text. i think you should spend less time arguing online and exposing yourself to things that make you angry, and maybe it'll be clear that nothing is shoved down your throat. you choose the battles you fight, and overall, they seem worthless. be kinder.

Raven Jaxson

I'm sorry to say that those biology textbooks are wrong. Education has really gone down hill these past few decades. Now it's all just propaganda.

Sernard

Sure, when the books don't aggree with you because knowledge has evolved they're wrong. Sorry to say man, but you are gay for liking Natani, because natani is a man. Tough luck, grow a spine.

Raven Jaxson

Knowledge has not evolved, there is no real tangible evidence to prove that transgender or nonbinary actually exists. It's all just assumptions and stereotypes of what men and women usually have, there are exceptions to the rule but it doesn't make them male or female exactly.

Sernard

Cope harder, there are proof dating millenias. Hope you can accept yourself someday.

Raven Jaxson

I highly doubt that. If anything it's people in society putting a label on someone who doesn't fit a traditional male or female stereotype. Gender is a made up term, it's not a real thing. There is no cope from me and I accept myself and who I am just fine.

Sernard

Then open a book. You say it yourself, gender is made up. It's a social construct based on social norms and expectation. And you can go beyond it. Like sexuality. You'll understand someday, and you'll feel silly for all those dumb posts. In the meantime, peace on you, let people be people and respect them if you want to be respected. Bye kid !

Raven Jaxson

Is Alaric still going at it with you? Buddy ol pal Alaric, just give it up. Accept the L in this argument. It's ok bud, you can't win them all.

Raven Jaxson

I know you think me a transphobe and terrible person but I really do care about your mental health. All this picking fights with strangers is not good for your mental health. I beg you please just give it up, take a break for awhile...this isn't your fight.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

I am Kind, sir. I care more than you'd ever care to think. I've also yet to sling any insult this entire time, yet that's all we get for **DisAgreeMents**; once again, check Crossbow for reference. And yes, Nat HAD the mind of a Male, but in fact ("if you actually bother to read the text") Natani is naturally + actually a Female; everyone should know this by now & be able to see that this very simple fact has Zer0 bearings on rl Ts. None at all, but y'all actually act like it does & harass anyone who disagrees with your ways of thinking. Which is Not a Good Thing and Never Will Be. :/ So yes, I WILL "fight", for as long as I'm attacked for following a favorite character's plot from the beginning (that again has no weight on rl, None At All), I have the right to swing back; everyone here does. But Maybe if your folks were "kinder", this "debate" wouldn't happen Every Single Natani Post; or do you actively ignore that y'all legit start this Every Bloody Time?? 😑

AlaricLives87

I said no. Now that you've unblocked me, I can see you're not making a good impression on others, either. So if I need to be even more candid, I'll tell you this: you might come to regret all these posts one day. Whether you just thrive on trying to piss people off as a troll or if you are genuinely misinformed, is anyone's guess. However, none of it reflects well on you. And this isn't coming from upon high a pedestal. I'm all too aware of how I come off to your little group, as well as those who are merely here for Tom's art. To the average person on here, I'm either stubborn at best, obnoxious and annoying at worst, but I will never back off from this. If nothing else, someday, you could have a change of heart, or you might discover things about yourself you haven't thought now or don't believe, but you may remember all of this, and cringe.

Raven Jaxson

I think you'll be the one who cringes in the future fighting for a fad disguised as some identity movement. I regret nothing because I know the truth and I'm on the right side of history. Whether you believe me or not but I am a good caring loving person. I already know and accept who I am. Your opinion of me is irrelevant and doesn't bother me one bit.

firandor

AND RAVEN'S BACK WITH A STEEL CHAIR

AlaricLives87

If it didn't bother you, you wouldn't keep insisting it doesn't while continuously calling yourself a good person. You're not. In fact, both of you are transphobes, and neither of you is kind or empathetic.

Raven Jaxson

It truly doesn't bother me. You don't know me and you don't speak for me Alaric. I have tons of kindness and empathy, it is my empathy for them that allows me to ask nicely for them to get the help they truly need. None of them will die if they don't transition or get what they want. Suicide does not count, the fact they do that shows how much of a mental health crisis it truly is. You don't give them what they want just because they say they'll kill themselves if you don't. That kind of behavior is akin to a child holding their breath because you aren't doing what they want.

victoria

wayyy too much going on there. i don't really care anymore, man. good luck in life

AlaricLives87

It does bother you. And everything you just wrote only proves my point again that you are an ugly person who cannot stand the kind of representation that welcomes fans you are threatened by. This isn't simply about a transmasc character in a webcomic. This is about the trans community. They belong in this fandom. You don't.

firandor

I dunno man, the trans like you do their absolute best to ruin every fandom they get involved in with their whole autogynophiliac obsession. I'd say they're the ones that would be less welcome, if not for the perversion, then for the extreme intolerant hostility the ones like you display.

AlaricLives87

And my point is proven again by another disgusting and transphobic take.

Raven Jaxson

I am not threatened by the trans community in the slightest. If anything I feel empathy for what they are going through, they need help accepting themselves. Luckily for me, you aren't the voice of this Fandom. I do belong here because I enjoy this comic. I enjoy the characters and stories...and yes that includes Natani.

AlaricLives87

I'm not a voice for anyone or anything except myself, who is telling you that you are threatened by the trans community, Raven. And it bothers you when you're called a terrible person for your BS. It's all true. I just know more than enough of this fandom that I can comfortably say that you don't belong because neither you nor your views are liked. You're a lonely person lashing out.

Raven Jaxson

Nothing you say bothers me and I don't care what you are telling me because you don't know me at all. Mmm....I think you are wrong. There are people here who like me and agree with me. I'm not lonely or lashing out, just speaking the truth. You are the one who starts everything and brings up the trans community and transphobia.

Aurora Astralis

Honestly to all the transphobes in this comment section: all you are doing is making a fool of yourself, a complete and total fool. you trying to convince people of your "point" is just inconsiderate blabbing that frankly most people are going to tune out, you need to learn how to cut your losses and let go. If you can't realize that even the literal WRITER and creator of this comic has said that Nat is male, then idek what to tell you. Just go home and stop burdening yourself with a "problem" that you are going to try to fix by arguing and trying to show that you are superior to others. Newsflash! it doesn't work.

Raven Jaxson

At least for me I am not trying to show I'm superior to anyone. I know that I'm not superior to anyone. I'm just speaking my truth on the subject, isn't the rule to respect people who speak their truth? Doesn't seem very progressive of you to deny me of my truth.

Raven Jaxson

I also find it interesting Alaric how you claim you only voice yourself only to go on to basically speak for everyone when you say 'no one likes me or my views.' That is a lie because I have actually seen people that like or have the same views as me. So there are in fact people who do like my views.

Drazgon

Raven, are you just camping here or what? 4 days since the post and you still reply to new provocative comments in less than a few hours. You're embarrassing yourself just like they do. Aurora, by the way, help me with one thing please. I got that your kind took the words man and woman for yourself and twist them to your liking. But I thought words male and female still retain their meaning, do they not? If not, what words remain for referencing actual sex, not 'gender'? Or have you already took the word sex too? I see more than one comment referencing Natani as male not just as a man.

AlaricLives87

Oh, but of course transphobes like each others views, but probably couldn’t stand each other’s company, and especially yours due to all that self importance you show which I very much think is a sign of low self esteem and have no doubt you’d tell other transphobes in person that everyone likes you over and over again until they want nothing to do with you cause you won’t shut up. You are still lonely and a very unlikable person. You use misinformation and outright lies and call that your truth, which you continue to spam the comments with. You are a transphobe.

BladesofElysian

Genuinely, how is this even up for discussion? Keith knows Nat is female, because she's comfortable around him. She's shy of her femininity, but that doesn't make her trans. I've never seen that side of out of any of the comic strips. What does Tom say about Nat, it's his character after all...

BladesofElysian

Did some research... Having followed this story for a number of years, it's my understanding that Natani is physically a female, but had her soul shattered by a powerful mage during their early days as assassins. It was rebuilt by magic, using parts of her brother Zen's soul to fill in the missing bits, giving Natani a male personality, although her femaleness is still there, personified by Youngtani, and she struggles with this a lot. Therefor it's safe to say that she's literally both.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Also Known As: "I have no rebuttal to the simple fact that this one-sided debate is constantly started & flames by one side, my side, and I will continue to ignore it. Our Opinions Over Facts~ Have a good life". Thank you for confirming, have a good day indeed 🙄

AlaricLives87

Do a little more research. Ref sheet: Sex - female. Gender: male. Twokinds website bio: Gender - male with he/him pronouns used. His younger self explained to him that he always liked identifying as male while acknowledging his feminine side (and body), which does not invalidate his gender at all. Zen had nothing to do with it. Couple that with Tom's statements throughout the years, and it clearly establishes Natani as transmasc.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Heeyyy, 420+ comments on 4/20. We should crack open a bit of the bubbly to celebrate such a random achievement of our collective insanity ~ 🥳🍾🥂🎉 'coz that was the goal all along right? 😁 .....riiight?? 😰

Raven Jaxson

You sure like to make assumptions about me don't you? There is no lies or misinformation coming from me, just the truth. I have literally said nothing bad at all or wished any kind of harm on anyone.

Drazgon

I think people work not hard enough. I just visited the post on e621 and it peaceful there, just thirsty comments about sweaty furry tits. I think they should deploy a squadron there asap for enlightenment. p.s. never thought I'd rather read gooners' comments than this.

AlaricLives87

The only truth here is that you’re transphobic. You want Natani to be your idealized tomboy muscle mommy wolf rather than the transmasc character he is, which threatens you, because you cannot handle being attracted to that since it might say something about your preferences which you could very well be in denial of, so you projected all this wildly misinformed and condescending BS upon us all in an effort to prove something to…yourself? Maybe or I’m just reading too much into a troll.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Oh noes! Surely e621 also (doesn't) deserve such a blessing as well! Quick, we must save them from themselves by hogging all ze blessings!! 😰 p.s. dbs. like the insane part bro, I was legit thinking the Same Exact Thing. 'coz you can laugh at the thirst even when it's not your thing & folk needed something to laugh at; even if it's at myself 😅

Linxan

If it's not your body, "your truth" on the subject isn't the one that counts. I don't get to decide for you you what your gender is, you don't get to decide mine. Not your body, not your problem.

firandor

Al, my man, you project harder than the outdoors movie theaters used to. Read the stuff you're saying up above. Do you realize you've been describing your own conduct more than anyone else's?

Raven Jaxson

I am attracted to the female body of Natani, does not matter what she thinks herself to be. Call me a transphobe all you want, I don't care because I do not acknowledge this made up word that is strictly used to insult people and make normal people like myself look like a bad person.

AlaricLives87

What I just posted applies to you as well, firandor. You couldn't be more desperate for a tomboy muscle-mommy character, which you are not getting in Natani. You're even more blatant an example of a transphobe with some deeply confused feelings about yourself, but taken to extremes, since you'd rather be outright offensive and call us perverts to make yourself feel better. You're a chaser.

Raven Jaxson

It's called being sarcastic Linxan. You can identify as whatever you want but I can choose not to participate in it. Respect is not something given out freely because someone demands it, respect is earned. The only respect you have earned is the respect of being a fellow human being. I do not respect your identity because it is a lie no matter how much you want it to be true.

AlaricLives87

You're attracted to a trans character, Raven. Here's a revelation for you: you can be straight and find said character attractive *GASP* It doesn't change your preferences unless you are truly questioning. It can just mean you are comfortable enough in your heterosexuality to find someone or a character of the same sex or gender attractive.

Raven Jaxson

Alaric...please do not insult my intelligence like that. There is no way anyone can look at Natani and say yep that's a guy, especially in this artwork. Natani is female everywhere it counts, it does not matter what she identifies herself as.

firandor

Bro, trying to recruit me mid-insult? Are you so far off the deep end that it seems impossible for normal people to exist?

AlaricLives87

I'm just going to put this all on record in the thread now because you keep going on about yOuR tRuThS. Here are some facts, sweethearts: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns: https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. His sex is female, but gender is male. That is textbook trans, even though you show no interest in reading all the books others recommend you open up because apparently your opinion is right, while all the books are wrong: https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 "ONE OF THE GUYS": https://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/809/ The conversation with Youngtani: https://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/932/ Kat bringing up another trans individual in Natani's defense: https://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/647/ Nat explaining how he identifies to others: https://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/942/ Feeling less self-conscious about his body without invalidating his gender: https://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/1036/ Oh, but if you think I'm reading too much into some of this, or if you try to twist or misconstrue the comic pages, don't take my words for it ( you haven't anyway). Take Tom's: "I'd always been interested in the concept of people being in bodies or situations that didn't match their mental state, perhaps inspired in early childhood by being an asian kid growing up in a mostly white, rural Ohio. I felt culturally western, especially because my dad was caucasian, but strangers didn't treat me that way, and at the time I had trouble understanding why. It's why I think a lot of my characters have the same theme: Flora growing up among humans, Keith banished from his homeland, Trace outside the Templar, Raine unable to control her form, Mike feeling like he's more culturally human than Evals, and of course Natani having a body that doesn't match his mental self-image. For Natani specifically, I thought it'd be novel to have a character who ends up in the wrong body. I'd initially considered making it a curse - that Natani was a male wolf but transformed by Issac into a woman by black magic - but I felt since I'd already established the link, it might be better to tie it into that somehow. I thought it'd be novel to have a female character that becomes mentally male and has to face what happens when the black magic wears off. Do they choose the life they would have had, a life they've never known, or embrace what they are now, having lived with this identity their whole life? Does a person have to conform to their body? Does it have to be all one thing or the other? A character living between two worlds is ultimately the overarching theme of the comic. Please keep in mind, the modern discourse regarding trans people was much, much less prominent back in 2006-2008. In my mind at the time, my intentions were just to create a female character that identifies as male, and I believed myself to be quite clever when I came up with that concept. I was frustrated by stories where people would take on a role - gender or otherwise - and live that way the whole story, only to go back to their original life after it was over and they didn't need it anymore. I wanted to know what would happen if someone was forced to take on a role, but then ultimately choose to embrace it. After all, how long does a person have to live a particular way before that life experience becomes who they are? These are the kinds of questions that fascinate me." -Tom, Reddit AMA Or: "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart I won't be surprised if you go back to the ol' "we'll just have to wait and see" or "he could change his mind at any time" excuses. However, given how you've talked to me, as well as those who are not cisgender, it makes me wonder how you'd speak to Tom directly if you got the chance. I do recall you saying you'd be disappointed in the result if it didn't fit your narrative. Despite everything that has been said, that particular comment, you being "disappointed," is what continues to stick out to me. It told me right then and there that it wasn't simply about a character to you. That's why I keep fighting you. It's about trans fans, it's about that community. Your words hurt. Those same words are used outside of here to hurt trans people.

Aurora Astralis

Raven... You are literally proving my point as we speak, you really can't let this go XD, it's just so ridiculous and extra.

Raven Jaxson

I could play along and make arguments against everything you just said but why make the effort when I already know what your response is going to be Alaric. One thing I will say is that if Tom went with his original idea of it being a curse then I would not be having this problem with Natani because being in the wrong body would be true. I can't help but notice that Tom does mention becoming mentally male thanks to the black magic which means that Natani wasn't always like this. Natani's story is not over yet with the link just being broken so she still hadn't decided whether she is staying 'male' or embracing her natural female self. The only thing that I will say is that you don't have to like me or my views but you DO have to respect my right to be a part of this fandom.

AlaricLives87

I won't. And just like that, when presented with the actual facts, including quotes and pages, you go with excuses since it doesn't align with your special little truths you keep blathering on about. Congratulations! You're still a transphobe!

Raven Jaxson

You keep using that word like it has any kind of effect on me. It doesn't in the slightest. Keep calling me a transphobe till the cows come home all you want but it's not going to stick on me. Oh look at that! It slid off me already! It's a good thing that you don't get to decide who can be in this fandom or not you little wannabe tyrant.

Alex

You want people to start being kind and respectful to you, Raven? Then start treating others the same way you want to be treated and stop being transphobic.

Alex

Raven, you're misunderstanding and confusing a lot of different terms and aspects of life. I won't waste my time on trying to help you understand or explain them anymore, you've shown complete ignorance and disregard to learning anything, and the unwillingness to apologize for being grossly wrong. But one thing I'll correct you on, and I'll keep correcting you on, as long as I'm alive - I'm not an idea. I'm a living, breathing, loving, proud, non-binary person. I don't need your approval, or anyone else's for that matter, to be valid in my gender identity. And I personally couldn't care less about your opinion or world views. I'm not doing this for myself, nothing you could ever say or do to me has the ability to hurt me. You're nothing but an insect on the windshield of my life. But other people on here need to see us trans folks stand up to you bigots. And as long as you keep denying my existence and validity, that's exactly what I'll keep doing.

AlaricLives87

Your identity is valid, Alex, your existence matters, and you are loved. Trans rights are human rights

Raven Jaxson

Alaric....what rights exactly do trans people don't have hmm? Alex, I'm glad that you don't care what other people have to say. That's a good thing. I have never once said that you aren't real or don't exist. Just because I don't believe in non binary, which I think is ridiculous and makes no sense whatsoever, doesn't mean I don't think you are real. Of course you exist, you're human just like me. That's the problem I think, you just assume that someone not believing in trans or nonbinary automatically means they think you don't exist, that is ridiculous. Speaking for myself anyway and not the true hateful people that say terrible things or make that stupid 51% joke, I acknowledge that you exist and are a living person. I just don't think nonbinary is real, that's it.

AlaricLives87

You already admitted to liking Natani's physical body, which means you're attracted to a trans character. Keep projecting yOuR tRuThS by spreading transphobic misinformation disguised as condescending compassion. You're not fooling anyone no matter how many times you try. Also, facts about Natani that bear repeating: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns: https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. His sex is AFAB (assigned female at birth), and his gender is male. Textbook trans character: https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381

Raven Jaxson

I'm not talking about Natani, I was asking you a question Alaric. What human rights specifically do the trans community not have? I'm being serious here.

AlaricLives87

And I don't care to answer you. I know what you'll try to do, and I won't humor it. Only you could take something meant to validate someone else's existence and attempt to turn it into another one of yOuR tRuThS. Be quiet.

Raven Jaxson

I'll take that as an answer that you don't know. Just a catchy phrase you heard from the community and other 'allies'. In regards to Natani...she is just confused and mistaken that's all. Just because a woman doesn't understand women doesn't mean that she is not a woman. All that really means is that Natani isn't the feminine kind of woman, she's the more masculine kind of woman. It is disrespectful and offensive to all men and women that someone could just identify as a man or woman when that person is the opposite of what they identify as. Take me for example, I am a guy. I don't identify as a guy, I just am a guy because that is what I am.

AlaricLives87

Shush. You’re a small and fragile little man lashing out over his attraction to a trans character. Everyone can see that except for you and the rest of your little transphobic group of chasers. Non-binary and trans people are real and representation in this comic has been so important to them and that threatens you. He/him, cupcake. It’s in the bio. Natani is transmasc.

Raven Jaxson

You know nothing about me and I'm not 'lashing' out because I'm attracted to Natani. I'm just speaking the truth and I'm sorry if that hurts some people's feelings. I am in no way threatened by anyone, that's just you projecting that onto me.

AlaricLives87

You are lashing out and it’s very clear you are confused about your feelings towards a transmasc character so rather than accept it and come around (which would be very big of you) you choose to be small and petty making countless transphobic responses and invalidating people’s existences calling their identities fake and made up, which is incredibly cruel and insensitive of you so you are not, in fact, a good person. You wouldn’t do that otherwise. You have gaslighted and projected everything into these threads with the clear intention of trying to prove something to yourself, but you have failed. Get help for what is clearly mental illness. You need it more than any trans person you claim does ;)

Raven Jaxson

You know what Alaric? I'm done with you. I could make all kinds of common sense arguments and showed all the facts of how gender identity is not even a real thing but you'd still call me transphobic and keep assuming the most bizarre things about me. None of which would be true by the way. The only thing you'll accept is if I agree with you and be deemed a 'good' person. I'm never going to do that because I still believe truth still means something and I'm sticking with the truth and not your messed up version of the truth. I just hope that one day you will see the error of your ways and realize that you have been manipulated and lied to. Until that day comes, I have nothing else to say to you.

Jaspin Burner

Transgender is such a homophobic ideology. Kids get called transgender for not conforming to sexist gender stereotypes.

Jaspin Burner

I'm pretty sure Tom goes out of his way to avoid addressing transgender because no matter what he says, it will hurt his reputation. That being said- Natani has gender dysphoria. It's completely different from being straight up transgender.

Jaspin Burner

Me when I can't tell the difference between a man and a woman:

Jaspin Burner

Tom, I respect you as an artist. You are very good at what you do, but why must you insist on making all of your Patreon posts gooner bait? I want to see you explore more interesting topics than just another piece of softcore porn. Maybe Trace using a mech or Flora using the magic purple crayon. I want to see Keith do a Kamehameha.

AlaricLives87

And he is trans. Dysphoria is a symptom and experience that goes hand in hand with his identity.

Raven Jaxson

You know Alaric....I think I just had a revelation about you, I believe I know why you are so desperate to go around correcting people about Natani's gender. No, I don't believe it's to protect trans representation or the trans community, it's all about yourself Alaric. I believe that you have conflicting feelings in regards to Natani and questioning if you are in fact gay. You find Natani's body to be sexy and attractive and you know deep down in your subconscious that Natani is female everywhere it counts biologically irregardless of what Natani believes herself to be. That's why you are so adamant about Natani's trans identity because you are in denial that you find a female sexy and attractive.

AlaricLives87

Didn't you say you were done talking to me before you blocked me for a fourth or fifth time? You really must be crying for help if you just keep coming back to this. I mean, it really is a classic sign of being closeted and(or) self-loathing for you to be like this, especially after admitting you found a trans character attractive. You can only start being a better person once you realize that. Also, just going to stick with the facts because "your truths" are boring: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381

firandor

Ladies, do y'all want to chill for a bit and reload for the next Natani post? It's been damn near two weeks.

Sora Altair

This guy is reading the liberal comic that was made because the creator experienced racism when he was young and decided to make a fantasy story about bigotry and its negative effects, and is still adamant that the blatantly trans character isn't trans.

Sora Altair

How many times has Natani blatantly stated that he's a man? Even after the Youngtani stuff he's still VERY insistent that he's a dude.

Sora Altair

Hi, trans person here. Not every trans man wants their tits gone, and besides that, Natani is clearly very uncomfortable with them or else he wouldn't bind. Thanks.

Sora Altair

I'd also like to point out this pretty blatant dialogue from Youngtani on page 932: "Natani, I didn't cut my hair and dress like a boy just to join Zen in the guild. Secretly... I liked it. I mean, I didn't mind being a girl, but... I liked being seen as a boy." "Don't you see? You're always giving Zen so much credit for making you who you are now. But the way you see yourself... the feelings you have, both masculine and, yes, occasionally feminine... it all comes from you." Speaking from experience, I didn't really start feeling gender dysphoria until I got blasted by gender euphoria for the first time, so this A) makes me feel weirdly seen, and B) is accurate to some trans experiences.

AlaricLives87

….that makes no sense. Anyway, trans youth are valid, and there is no LGBTQ+ without the T

Raven Jaxson

Natani is not trans with the only thing being her gender being male. There is not a single person that considers themselves to be trans that has ever been ok with their biological body as Youngtani mentioned or Natani secretly finding her body sexy and attractive which no trans person would ever say about their biological body. Natani does not have gender dysphoria as any objections she makes about her body are fake, Natani doesn't want to be treated like a girly girl that needs saving or can't do things males do. Natani is a tomboy that's it. Youngtani mentions liking been SEEN as a boy which is completely different from wanting to be a boy. Natani was never supposed to be considered a trans character based on Tom's original idea for her that he had to pivot on due to her already being linked to Zen. None of you would be saying Natani is trans if the mind link never happened like in Tom's original curse idea.

AlaricLives87

*sighs* Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 I could reference all the moments in the story pointing to his trans journey, but you clearly don't understand the character at all. Tom does: "I'd always been interested in the concept of people being in bodies or situations that didn't match their mental state, perhaps inspired in early childhood by being an asian kid growing up in a mostly white, rural Ohio. I felt culturally western, especially because my dad was caucasian, but strangers didn't treat me that way, and at the time I had trouble understanding why. It's why I think a lot of my characters have the same theme: Flora growing up among humans, Keith banished from his homeland, Trace outside the Templar, Raine unable to control her form, Mike feeling like he's more culturally human than Evals, and of course Natani having a body that doesn't match his mental self-image. For Natani specifically, I thought it'd be novel to have a character who ends up in the wrong body. I'd initially considered making it a curse - that Natani was a male wolf but transformed by Issac into a woman by black magic - but I felt since I'd already established the link, it might be better to tie it into that somehow. I thought it'd be novel to have a female character that becomes mentally male and has to face what happens when the black magic wears off. Do they choose the life they would have had, a life they've never known, or embrace what they are now, having lived with this identity their whole life? Does a person have to conform to their body? Does it have to be all one thing or the other? A character living between two worlds is ultimately the overarching theme of the comic. Please keep in mind, the modern discourse regarding trans people was much, much less prominent back in 2006-2008. In my mind at the time, my intentions were just to create a female character that identifies as male, and I believed myself to be quite clever when I came up with that concept. I was frustrated by stories where people would take on a role - gender or otherwise - and live that way the whole story, only to go back to their original life after it was over and they didn't need it anymore. I wanted to know what would happen if someone was forced to take on a role, but then ultimately choose to embrace it. After all, how long does a person have to live a particular way before that life experience becomes who they are? These are the kinds of questions that fascinate me." -Tom, Reddit AMA "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart Facts speak for themselves. He/him. A transmasc character and not some tomboy muscle mommy you want to goon to all day and night. But I'd also like to add a little extra quote here for the fun of it: "I am attracted to the female body of Natani, does not matter what she thinks herself to be." -Raven, admitting he's attracted to a trans character.

Raven Jaxson

You do like to project a lot don't you? All this talk about being in the closet and self loathing, not to mention gooning to a tomboy muscle mommy. I'd say that you need some serious help dealing with all of those issues buddy. I have never once said anything about muscle mommy, those are your words not mine. I just simply said that Natani is a tomboy that's it. I also do not goon to anything, I just enjoy the art and like looking at it. I'm not some degenerate pervert like you. Haha....you think you are so clever with that quote don't you? Is it really being attracted to a trans character if I don't see the character as trans? All I see is a sexy female wolf. Your little gotcha won't work on me.

AlaricLives87

"Your truths" vs reality: Natani's gender is male, and he uses he/him pronouns, as per Tom. You admitted to being attracted to his body. You are attracted to a transmasc character. And guess what? I'm not surprised in the slightest that you'd call me a degenerate pervert. I knew that was your true side all along, and hiding behind all of this condescending compassion wasn't ever fooling me. It took some work and a lot of patience, but I did manage to bring it out of you :)

Raven Jaxson

Wow....you are completely out of your mind Alaric. I have no idea where you are getting these wild conclusions from. You are just talking about yourself, not me. It's ok to admit that YOU are the one who loves to goon to a female character. I am one of the only people on here who lives in reality. Gender is a made up term that no one asked me if I wanted it participate in it or not. The concept of transgender does not exist, it is simply something to manipulate mentally vulnerable people suffering a mental illness to make them feel better and ruin their bodies forever.

IcyNightMedic

Hello, I see you haven't read much of what I said, which is fine, along with the comic to know she's being more comfortable being back in her female body than spiritually in her brother's. But off your words, with how I'm quite uncomfortable with having certain masculine features, I should just remove them? (Not going too, because there's always going to be something uncomfortable when living life in a body.) And just because a woman who may not like having mammary glands, due to being uncomfortable, yes, not all want to remove, or as you said, may instead use a bind, but also automatically doesn't just make them trans. I do not wish to spread hate, but being trans is a gender dysphoria, a 'psychological disorder' that has someone 'want' to try and 'become' the 'opposing sex' by 'conforming', which you may already know since you have done it. But please do not try and force that onto others as being a tomboy-tomgirl does still exist too, where a female or male may like things more of the opposing sex instead of fully conforming to it. Sorry for the late reply, I've been working when it comes to what I do. Sincerely ~ constantly working fellow.

IcyNightMedic

I'm going to make this reply to say that I would like to no longer be apart of these outrageous arguments. Its extremely terrible to see the community this split over a fictional anthro wolf, which is very disheartening. Any other replies will be met with silence, I do not wish to come back to a 3w old post about any of this crude behavior.

Raven Jaxson

There is the typical boring Alaric response when he has nothing else to say. Not surprising at all. I don't think this whole Natani situation is going to go the way you think it will. Based on what Tom has said about not liking characters that go back to normal and Natani believing she's a guy...the conclusion I see is Natani embracing her femininity and female body. It would go in hand with Tom's original idea which I don't think he would abandon completely.

AlaricLives87

Again, "yOuR tRuThS" keep clashing with reality. Since the reality is that you're attracted to a transmasc character, as you admitted, you keep making shit up and deflecting to absurd levels. I'll just keep posting the facts: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381

Raven Jaxson

It's not just my truth, it is the truth that is based in reality. Just because a person with a fully functional female body, boobs and all goes by masculine pronouns does not mean they are male. That's just not how it works. You are the one making things up and living in delusional land.

AlaricLives87

I post facts by the author. It’s canon that Natani’s gender is male and he goes by he/him pronouns. You disagree with that, you disagree with Tom. Your truth is stupid, transphobe.

firandor

*Deep sniff* 100% Female WOLF PUSSY

Raven Jaxson

There is no real science to gender at all. It's all fake and made up. There is no real way to determine it. You can't look at a complete stranger and be able to determine what their gender is. Tom is basing Natani's gender and pronouns entirely on what Natani believes to be.

AlaricLives87

Wow, yOuR tRuTh is even dumber than I thought if you think that’s how Tom operates. It’s just another one of your excuses for being a transphobe in love with a trans character

Raven Jaxson

What's dumb and unhinged is calling a clear cut biological female a guy because they identify as a guy. Literally makes no sense whatsoever.

Raven Jaxson

Such a boring comment Alaric. That does nothing to me or mean anything to me. I'm sure you got something better than that.

Raven Jaxson

I've been noticing that only a handful of people like you are going around 'correcting transphobes.' Seems like people like you are the minority considering there is 15,991 members of Tom's patreon. Before you say anything, I'm not saying that I'm in the majority or anything like that.

Raven Jaxson

How about you just let people comment whatever they want and you leave them alone. If you don't like the comment then you can simply ignore it and not bother replying. Tom can decide if he wants that person gone or not.

Raven Jaxson

If I were Tom I'd probably ban you. I wouldn't care what your intentions are or not, you are just causing problems. You are overstepping and trying to show authority when you have none. It's painfully obvious that you are choosing to intentionally be a self righteous annoying prick.

AlaricLives87

And proud of it now that it's gotten all the vile and bigoted things you truly think out in the open for everyone to see. Also, for anyone who has managed to make it this far, but might have forgotten what this was all about, here are the facts regarding Natani: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart

Raven Jaxson

The solution is simple, see a comment you don't like then you simply block the person. Block those ones and there you go, you won't have to worry about seeing any 'offensive' comments. You won't do that will you? I believe that you live for the fight and enjoy it quite a bit. It makes you feel important and special doesn't it? I believe this kind of behavior shows that you have self esteem issues. You are not happy with yourself so you go after people that you believe to be transphobes so you can correct and fight them just to make yourself feel better. I don't see any other reason why you would subject yourself to such toxic comments, well...toxic to you anyway, instead of just blocking them and moving on with your life. It screams like a cry for help and I hope that one day you get the help you need. I do genuinely care about your mental health after all.

Raven Jaxson

Speaking of mental health....I'm going to block you again and leave you blocked so I don't go crazy from banging my head against a wall named Alaric.

firandor

I mean, you're debating a clinically insane self-mutilated entity that HAS to defend it's position or lose what grip it has left on it's life. What did you expect? Reasoning and sensibility?

AlaricLives87

Says the transphobe making weird comments about sniffing genitalia.

firandor

Bruh, that's one of the more normal parts of this conversation. Real men don't pinch their noses when they go down.

Drazgon

500th comment is mine MUAHAHA!

firandor

I hereby claim the title of the 501st.

Raven Jaxson

Alright...I'm a glutton for punishment I guess but for real this time, one final thing to say to get it off my chest. I'm going to be real with you Alaric, you don't get to judge me and call me a terrible person all because of one disagreement I have. I am genuinely a decent, kind, respectful and empathetic human being. I give respect to people that deserve respect and respect me and my opinions and beliefs. I do not give respect to people who demand me to use the pronouns that they chose out of 'respect' for them but refuse to respect my belief and uncomfortableness in lying and gaslighting them just so that feel better and seen. I get labeled a terrible person and transphobe for not doing what they want, that's unfair to me and manipulative of them. You don't have to like my opinion but you do have to respect it, it's my right to choose not to participate in their pronoun game, that does not make me a transphobe or terrible person. I have too much respect and empathy for the trans community as human beings to willingly lie to them so they can feel better about themselves. I'm sorry if the truth hurts them, but that's usually what the truth does to people unwilling to listen to it. I will be kind and respectful to them by treating them like human beings but I will not lie to them.

AlaricLives87

I've lost count of how many times you've repeated all that BS, just like I've lost count of how many times you've blocked me, just to unblock me, and then block me again. All the while, firandor talks about sniffing wolf genitals. Anyway, bio, reference sheet, and Tom's words don't lie: Nat has the mind of a guy, sees himself as a guy, and uses he/him pronouns. The representation he brings to the comic means the world to trans fans. I take pride in that. Their gender identities matter, not your opinion. You can use whatever excuse you like, but every time you're transphobic, it's going to be called out.

Raven Jaxson

Do you not hear the ridiculousness that you just said? Mind of a guy? What does that even mean anyway and how do you even determine that? The idea of that is completely absurd and nonsensical. You never hear trans people saying 'I'm going to live the truth about me' it's 'I'm going to live MY truth about me.' That notes that there is a difference between THE truth and THEIR truth. Originally Natani was never supposed to be any kind of trans representation at all, Natani was originally supposed to be a guy trapped in a woman's body due to a curse. Tom had to make a quick change to that because he already established the mind link between Natani and Zen. Let me ask you a question....do you consider Keiren to be a trans woman now that he's trapped in Adira's body?

Raven Jaxson

Ahhh, the boring go to comment when you got nothing to say. How predictable.

Raven Jaxson

Someone help Alaric he's stuck on repeat! Maybe a good ol whack to the back of the head will fix him.

firandor

I'm caught up on how this dude, who is subscribed to a softcore furry porn patreon, thinks a "wolf pussy" comment is out of place. Like, my man, do you know where you are? Are you sure you belong here?

AlaricLives87

The point is that you're transphobic and gross. Those go hand in hand, so it bears repeating.

firandor

Said the mirror monster to the regular dude.

Raven Jaxson

Booooo, get some new material! You suck! *throws tomatoes at Alaric*

Raven Jaxson

I'm not counting that Alaric. You may have added an S but it's still the same old tired boring thing. I don't know what you think saying that does but it's doing the opposite. It does not offend or hurt me at all. It's just making me bored and annoyed because this is...what? Your millionth time saying it? I am telling the truth and being honest with you and your response is just 'ok, transphobe'. That's very disrespectful of you and I don't appreciate the disrespect. I even asked a couple of questions that you don't bother to answer, probably because you don't have an answer at all.

Raven Jaxson

You do know that your repeated saying of transphobe doesn't actually mean I'm a transphobe. If anything you are just trying to convince yourself that a decent guy is a transphobe simply because you say he is.

firandor

We CAN just respond with "cisphobe" on repeat, though. Not exactly productive, but it's not least sensible thing in this conversion, either.

AlaricLives87

Oh, please do! That will show me! I'll learn to never mess with the transphobes who want to smell wolf genitals while declaring their hypocrisy truths, while still being attracted to a transmasc character in a furry comic! Also, still facts: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 Enjoy your weekend :)

Raven Jaxson

You know Alaric, you talk pretty tough online but I highly doubt you'd be saying all of this to my face in person. All the insults and being annoying with your boring transphobe nonsense. People would see in person how disrespectful, annoying and unhinged you are saying these things to a calm and rational guy like myself. What exactly is hypocritical about the truth that I am saying hmmm? I can still respect a person who believes they are trans as a human being while not respecting the trans identity they chose.

firandor

Okay, cisphobe.

Raven Jaxson

Are you looking at the same art as me? There is emphasis on Natani's boobs, it's the whole point of the sketch. Natani is unwrapping her binding after a workout which is emphasizing her chest.

AlaricLives87

Here, I'm going to save some people a lot of trouble of having to scroll through another endless thread by separating "your truths" from the actual facts in just one response: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart

Raven Jaxson

The facts are that Natani is female no matter what pronouns Natani uses or what gender she believes herself to be. You show this sketch to any normal person they'll be saying the same thing that Natani is a female wolf.

ArtAnimationFan

Ah, thanks Abstract Indigo. I’m glad to hear that.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

Mmm...okay, hi Raven & Fira....How The FLUFFN' HELL is this conversation still going on?!! (fr, it's almost a 100+ comment jump from the last time I pulled up this page 😰) Raven, I thought you blocked this dude already; please keep it that way. and Fira: trolling trolls don't really help things either. May I suggest you block Alaric and his crew as well, for your own mental health?? 🙏🏾

firandor

Eh. I don't typically block people. A random trans having a meltdown in the comments isn't exactly an uncommon occurrence, and doesn't really affect anyone's mental health but their own.

AlaricLives87

Thank you for sharing that, Sora. Listening to those who relate to the character through personal experience is very much appreciated and helps drown out all the transphobic noise

Onyx Jax

That doesn't matter Alex. That kind of behavior is unacceptable in this situation. Don't enable this kind of awful behavior.

Alex

The fact that you're STILL putting up with this delusional bio-essentialist idiot here, that's some real dedication. Thank you Alaric! 🏳️‍⚧️

AlaricLives87

It takes me about a year on average for my sketch suggestions to get through. I’ve dealt with bigots even longer (try my whole life) so these jerks are nothing. Trans rights are human rights ❤️🏳️‍⚧️

Alex

"Cisphobe" isn't a word. Nobody hates cisgender people merely for existing. "Trans" is an adjective, in this particular instance needing to be followed by for example "person" - "a trans person". It can however be used as a standalone word when indicating, such as "I'm trans" or "They're trans". The way you used it is incorrect and a common transphobic tactic to dehumanize trans people and our struggles.

AlaricLives87

Thank you, Alex, for injecting some more intelligence into this conversation. I'm sure they won't understand.

firandor

Okay, cisphobes.

Alex

I don't think we need a "common sense argument" from someone who claims gender identity (something every person innately has, whether they're actively aware of it or not; and something the existence of which we've known, understood and documented for thousands of years) "isn't a real thing".

Alex

YUP! They instantly proved you right Alaric. Also, I love how transphobes suddenly pretend to lose the ability to read, when they reach the gender part of the ref sheet. A classic, never before seen tactic! 😄

firandor

Tl;dr, just more drivel from illiterate, cisphobic fascist bigots.

AlaricLives87

^ If we're going by this transphobe's logic, then this quote would be even more drivel from another illiterate, cisphobic fascist bigot: "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart

Raven Jaxson

Sorry Alex and Alaric but I go by what I can see, not what Natani believes herself to be. What I see is a full fledged female anthro wolf keidran, no one in their right mind can look at Natani and say that's a guy.

AlaricLives87

Well aren’t you just an angry little transphobe. Here, let me reshare the facts about the character as established by Tom: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart

AlaricLives87

Tom does: "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart

Raven Jaxson

Alright look, I don't actually care what anyone identifies as, people can do that if they want. Just don't go expecting or demanding others to go along with it. That's the problem I have, manipulating people to go along with it or be labeled a terrible person. People have the choice whether they want to go along with what people believe themselves to be or not. That doesn't make them bigots or transphobes, respect a person's choice to not go along with it. I personally do not believe that trans or nonbinary is even a real thing, that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge or see the ones who believe they are as not existing. They are still human beings and they do exist, I'm not denying their existence. What I am denying is the idea of trans and nonbinary as existing.

AlaricLives87

To label being trans or nonbinary as an idea that you refuse to believe, and would have the gall to lecture those who are about it, not only denies their existence, but makes you transphobic and an awful person. I've said this to you over and over and over and over again. And see, you just did this thing where you said something at the beginning of your response that could have made a lot of sense and would have saved this sketch 400+ comments: "Alright look, I don't actually care what anyone identifies as, people can do that if they want." Never mind everything that came after it. It's that one sentence that can make a helluva difference here. Think about it between now and whenever the next Natani sketch drops.

Raven Jaxson

All you do is lie Alaric, I'm neither awful nor transphobic and I'm not denying anyone's existence. I am going to say whatever I want for the next Natani sketch. I expect you to leave my comment alone even if you don't like it. Pick your battles son, you do not want this battle with me again. It's a battle you will not win and won't be worth it.

AlaricLives87

Oh, well, see there you go, taking what should be a learning lesson, and instead of being smart, you keep acting silly. You're a bad person, a transphobe, and I will use another previous quote of yours I like to cite as well as stating the facts again, as established by Tom, which show you are attracted to a transmasc character: "I am attracted to the female body of Natani." Raven Facts: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 You're a chaser. Now go ahead and block me just so you'll unblock me again like you've done quite a few times now. Keep being a transphobe, though, on any future Natani sketch, and you're going to be called out on your shit

Raven Jaxson

Doesn't matter what pronouns Natani uses, she is still female. Just accept it. How does one determine someone has the mind of a guy? Just because Natani doesn't understand or relate to women doesn't automatically mean Natani is a guy. It just means Natani isn't a feminine woman.

firandor

Bro, a sex cultist isn't teaching anyone a "lesson." That's all the trans community is, and you're a reflection of that. Think about it: random religious zealot? "Nonbelievers are evil!" Random trans? "Nonbelievers are evil!" You act hostile and aggressive towards anyone who won't accept your cult as normal, or even just says anything the cult doesn't approve of. Hell, you even have people mutilate themselves for acceptance as one of you. It's insane.

AlaricLives87

You like to pretend you smell wolf genitalia, firandor. That's all I need to know about you. And as for you, Raven: Fact: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Fact: Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 Fact: "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart I like spamming the facts. Nothing wrong with being right every time as opposed to posting BS and transphobic misinformation and horrible rhetoric like you two weirdos do.

firandor

My man, locking on to something as trivial as a goofy comment just means you have no viable response or defense. So tell me, cultist: how much do you actually believe in what you preach?

Raven Jaxson

You never answered my question Alaric. How do you determine someone having the mind of a guy?

AlaricLives87

"*Deep sniff* 100% Female WOLF PUSSY" firandor ^Apparently, that's supposed to pass off as just a "goofy comment." Dude, it was gross, and you're weird. I'll keep citing it as a prime example of who you really are. And Natani's transmasc identity has been laid out to you multiple times, Raven. Tom explained his approach to the character in a quote I shall cite AGAIN: "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart Also of note again: the correct pronouns were used multiple times throughout this explanation, as they are in Natani's profile on the main site. You are either delusional, or it doesn't even matter what Tom says because you're transphobic, and that's the point. It's what I've known since all this nonsense started. If nothing else, it has been necessary to drag this out for as long as it has gone, so everyone could see it. You are both terrible people.

firandor

Bro, if that's really all you've got, then you lost long before that comment was posted. So, how much of what you're going on about do you actually believe? I think you're just playing comments on repeat, not because you're trying to convince us, but because you're trying to assure yourself. It's your prayer.

AlaricLives87

Goes to show that when presented with the facts, you conveniently ignore, sidestep, or twist them to double down on your transphobia and look even sillier...or, in your case, proclaim you know gender by smelling wolf genitalia

Raven Jaxson

Here's a shocker for you Alaric, Tom can be wrong. No one is infallible. I will tell you again. Natani was never supposed to be trans in the first place. This whole mess got started when the mind link happened and ruined Tom's original plan for Natani.

Raven Jaxson

What's delusional is someone believing they are something they can never be and manipulating others to go along with or be labeled a 'transphobe'. Respect other people's choice to not go along with it and move on with your life. It does not harm you at all.

AlaricLives87

There it is! Tom says Natani is a guy and uses he/him pronouns, and you say he's wrong. Well, thank Jesus tapdancing Christ that he's been doing this story for twenty years and has shown the kind of growth that separates him from many other webcomic authors. You wouldn't know what growth is because you are incapable of it here, and there are plenty of people on Patreon who are infinitely better than you. I'll take Tom's word over the ramblings of a transphobe who already admitted to being attracted to a trans character.

Raven Jaxson

I highly doubt that there are many people on here who are better than me. I am a wonderful person who still believes in truth and has principles. I see you like taking one quote out of context, I see Natani as a female so that means I am attracted to a female character. Natani never had gender dysphoria due to the fact she didn't mind her body but liked being seen as a boy, key word being seen which is different from actually being a boy. Context matters here Alaric. Natani went through a massive trauma when her mind got shattered by magic with the only way to keep her alive is linking her mind to her brother Zen. Now of course that is going to have an effect on Natani making her believe she is more masculine and a guy when she's not, I'm not saying all of it is influenced from Zen but to say there was no influence would be short sighted. You using the fact that Natani said "I don't feel any different" after the mind link was broken affirming she is still trans is ridiculous. Of course Natani is not going to feel much different right away, what did you expect? Natani to go full on girly girl? Natani was never the feminine girl type to begin with. Natani's journey of self discovery is truly beginning now and we'll see what choice she makes going forward since the post mind link Natani arc is just beginning, we don't know what is going to happen.

Your name

how to out transphobes 101

Raven Jaxson

Ah back to the boring reply when faced with facts and nuance. You don't really care after all do you?

AlaricLives87

Oh, but I've gotten everything I've needed out of you. It's just fun at this point. Even funnier when you keep ignoring the actual facts when they're presented to you. To actually say that Tom's wrong about the character just shows what this all boils down to: You're a transphobe, you cannot accept a trans character, and you keep denying the existence of trans fans. You're not a good person, and everyone can see that now, thanks to all the comments you've made up to today. Have a good weekend, buttercup Trans rights are human rights.

Raven Jaxson

I am not denying anyone's existence at all, what I am denying is the idea and concept of trans and nonbinary, just because I am denying one thing does not mean that I am denying the person's existence.. It's short sighted of you to say that I'm not a good person just from one opinion and belief that I have. Tom had a decision to make with Natani given the mind link was already established so he couldn't keep going with his original idea for Natani. The mind link effected Natani who was already a masculine woman but with her mind shattered Natani assumed that she must be a guy due to not being overly feminine and not knowing anything about women. You are forgetting that Natani's mind is shattered and had to piece herself back together with what she knew and being linked to her brother's mind caused some confusion which is just natural due to the trauma Natani went through.

firandor

I think we're glossing over the part where Tom said his goal was to find out "what would happen if someone was forced to take on a role, but then ultimately chose to embrace it." Natani's going to embrace being a woman, Al. Getting molested by dark magic early on left her with a hell of an identity crisis, but she's going to heal. She may say she's got different pronouns at the moment, but as she grows, one day she will discover this magical thing called self-acceptance. All these "facts" and "truths" you keep going on about become null and moot in the face of that. It's just a phase as she grows into herself. We're not the illiterate ones here, buddy.

Raven Jaxson

What's funny about all this is that if Tom was able to go with his original idea for Natani, is that by Natani embracing being a woman that would technically make Natani a trans character.

Raven Jaxson

I hereby declare victory in this war of words with Alaric. It was a long and fierce battle, there were times where I thought it would never end! Yet here we are at the end finally and I am the last man standing. Pour one out for Alaric, he put up a great fight but it is I who ends up with the last word and wins the battle.

AlaricLives87

Ok, transphobes ;) Keep pretending you can smell wolf genitals and denying trans fans their representation and existence. It just makes you two look like the worst people on the Twokinds Patreon. But not only do trans fans exist, but their gender identities are the only truth. They matter, you don't. Here's a little reminder to use he/him pronouns when referring to the character, along with the actual facts as established by Tom: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart

firandor

Bro, you speak with the reading comprehension of a first grader. You act like one, too; running around and picking fights then telling everyone else they're bad people. Look in the mirror, man. Read the shit you spew with an ounce of introspection. You're a pretty shitty individual.

AlaricLives87

Oh, the projection is strong in this transphobe. At least, when he isn't making gross comments

Raven Jaxson

It's too late Alaric. You have lost the battle. Take the loss with dignity and don't be a sore loser. Maybe you'll win next time.

firandor

It's almost sad. The best you can do is "No, you!" and run around screaming "HE SAID WOLF PUSSY HE'S GROSS!" I'm genuinely starting to wonder if you're intelligent enough to legally have an account on a media platform.

Raven Jaxson

I'm going to tell you again for the millionth time, me not believing that trans and nonbinary to be real and me denying that people who believe they are trans or nonbinary exist is mutually exclusive. What that means basically is that both things cannot be true at the same time. The claim that biological sex and gender aren't the same is only a recent thing with bad faith actors trying to change the definition of gender to make it not the same. The doctor asks the couple if they would like to know the sex of their baby but when the couple decides to have a party to reveal the sex to everyone it's called a gender reveal party. When I was growing up and I had to fill out forms about myself there was only gender, there was not biological sex and gender just gender. That right there proves that gender and biological sex are the same thing and interchangeable.

AlaricLives87

You do not respect their gender identities, Raven, so you do not respect them as people, and that makes you a transphobe and a terrible person. Going about YoUr TrUtHs doesn't make them facts: they aren't. It's stupid, and it just makes you all the more hateful and unreasonable a bigot like the weirdo who wants to smell wolf genitalia. Also: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 ^ Those are the real facts, along with the only truth that matters: trans fans being welcomed here and having representation in a transmasc character like Natani. Deal with it, sweethearts :)

firandor

Raven, my man, you ain't gonna convince him; he can't understand. Dude has no idea what he looks like from the outside. Zero awareness of the way he talks. He's not capable of it. That, or he's secretly super anti-trans and is the second greatest troll I've met to date.

Raven Jaxson

I do respect the people who believe they are trans and nonbinary and see them as human beings even if I don't believe in trans or nonbinary itself. I do not say this for the likes, I don't care about the likes, I say it because I mean it. I care about them and their wellbeing more than the people manipulating them at a vulnerable time. It's too bad you don't feel the same way and only care about likes and being perceived as an ally. If anyone is a bigot, it's you Alaric. You are hating on me and saying I don't belong in this fandom based on the beliefs that I have that is backed by science and biology. Have fun being a bigot Alaric, this is not reddit where you can get people you don't like banned by power hungry mods that use made up rules to justify their bans. This is Patreon, you got a problem then bring it up to Tom and we'll see if he has me banned. I have a feeling he won't do anything so the best thing for you to do is just simply block me and move on with your life, if you don't want to do that then simply ignore the things I say that you don't like. You got plenty of options Alaric, your choice what you decide to do.

AlaricLives87

You're a transphobe, Raven, and you don't belong here based on all the misinformation and hate you spread, no matter how hard you try to excuse it with the condescending compassion you regurgitate. Any time a transphobe like you uses biology and science in the same sentence on this Patreon, you sound even dumber, and Natani is still trans, identifies as male, and uses he/him pronouns.

Raven Jaxson

There is no hate or misinformation coming from me just the truth. If the truth is transphobic then what are we doing here hmmm? Ah, there it is....you think science and biology is dumb huh? Does the truth not mean anything on here? Doesn't matter what Natani believes herself to be right now, in the end she is going to embrace being a woman. What's funny is that Natani would actually be a trans character in the end if Tom was still doing what he had in mind originally for Natani.

AlaricLives87

Natani is transmasc, sees himself a guy, uses he/him pronouns, his bio on the main website establishes that as fact (per Tom) and every trans fan is living their true self now enjoying their lives and this comic, which threatens you. You are attracted to a trans character, which makes you hate yourself so much that you lash out at the trans community because their representation in this comic reinforces that. You even said Tom is wrong on this and that only makes your self loathing all the more deep and irrational. Doesn’t excuse your bad behavior but it might certainly explain why you’ve blocked me so many times, only to come back for more.

Raven Jaxson

All I'm going to say is we'll see where this leads to in the end. I have a feeling that trans fans are going to be angry when Natani chooses to embrace being a woman. I'm not going to respond to all your BS allegations and your poor attempt at psychoanalyzing me because I have already told you more times than I can count that you are wrong about me and don't truly know me at all. To end this once and for all how about we just agree to disagree and move on with our lives. Sound like a good deal?

AlaricLives87

I don't see anything to disagree on when the facts should speak for themselves. Natani is trans, identifies as male, uses he/him pronouns, and sees himself as a guy, per Tom: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart

Raven Jaxson

Ok...you have got to be some kind of troll that enjoys picking fights with people you see as transphobes because I refuse to believe you are this dumb. Agree to disagree is a saying to end an argument where neither person is going to change their mind. It means that both parties mutually accept they hold different opinions and agree to stop arguing so they can move on without further conflict.

AlaricLives87

This isn't a difference of opinion. This is a matter of doing what is right: calling people like you out for something very wrong. It should have been clear to you over a month ago what I'm all about. I don't like transphobia and will not tolerate it here.

Raven Jaxson

Well then it's a good thing I'm not being transphobic. I have every right to be here until Tom decides I shouldn't be here. You don't have to like the things I say but you do have to deal with it. I'm not changing my mind and I'm not leaving.

AlaricLives87

I'll deal with it by reminding you of the facts: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart It's easy. Don't be transphobic.

Raven Jaxson

None of that matters Alaric, that is just a phase Natani is going through at the moment believing she's a guy. It's a foregone conclusion in the end that Natani is going to accept being a female.

Daemon Blitzkrieg

.....😮‍💨 Idk if I should be proud, ashamed, or impressed that the both of you (well 3, hi Alaric~ 👋🏾) have been going at this for over a month now. This is straight Insanity, I hope ALL OF YOU know this by now. 😕 And as there's no way of actually stopping you fools...popcorn??~ 🍿🍿🍿

Raven Jaxson

Yes I know Daemon. This is insanity. I have tried many a time to descalate the situation by suggesting Alaric drop it and agree to disagree. Alaric is the one being stubborn and refusing out of some self righteous duty that he is doing what's right. All this is proving is what a entitled unhinged asshole you are Alaric. I will not be bullied by you out of this community and be silenced because you don't like my opinions and what I say.

AlaricLives87

Oh, you are so full of shit and can do nothing except make stuff up now when the facts are repeatedly presented to you. Also, facts again lol: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart

Raven Jaxson

You know what? Let me go through these 'facts' that you just love to keep using ad nauseum because you think it proves something. First of all sex and gender are the same thing and interchangeable so Natani can't be male and female at the same time. I will not be gaslit into believing they are different because the definition of gender was changed for nefarious reasons. Secondly, pronouns are not just something that you can choose for yourself and demand other people use them when talking about you. That is trying to control the speech of other people which I find reprehensible and disgusting. Lastly, everything that Tom says about Natani makes no sense at all. What does it even mean to have the mind of a guy? What does that entail exactly that proves Natani has the mind of a guy? What life experiences has Natani been through that convinces Natani that she's a guy? Is it because Natani doesn't know the first thing about women so doesn't understand or relate to them? Just because a woman doesn't relate to or understand women doesn't make that woman a guy. She is still a woman just a more masculine woman is all. There is nothing wrong with being a masculine woman which Natani is.

AlaricLives87

Again, the facts, as opposed to the denials and transphobic rationalizations you make: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart

Raven Jaxson

Alaric....I already argued against those facts with the truth. Got anything else because I am not repeating what I just posted unlike you who keeps posting the same things thinking you are proving anything.

AlaricLives87

The facts AND truth: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart

Raven Jaxson

When you were talking about me being lonely and unlikeable I think that you were actually talking about yourself Alaric. You are the lonely one because no one can stand being around you what with your self righteous attitude and having to be careful what to say around you lest you start an argument with them. You are like a dog with a bone refusing to let go of this issue until you get what you want which in this case would most likely be me either admitting I'm wrong and you are right or me leaving this community altogether. I am doing neither because I will not give you the satisfaction of victory so you could go to trans people and say how much of a good ally you are and how you made a place safer for them hoping to get some kind of attention from them. You bit off more than you can chew this time Alaric because I do not back down from bullies like you so easily. I will not leave this community, I belong here as much as anyone else does and I will not be bullied out by you. You say that you will not tolerate transphobia here like you have any kind of authority to back that up with but you don't, I don't care what you do or do not tolerate Alaric because I'm here to stay. I will continue to comment with the truth and not the made up truth the trans community claim so they can feel better about themselves and refusing to accept themselves for what they truly are which is the gender they are born as. Oh....and Natani is a sexy beautiful WOMAN, deal with it cupcake. ;)

AlaricLives87

Ok, transphobe. Also, facts: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart

Raven Jaxson

Oh wow! The old two for one special! I did not expect that, but I am two for three on my prediction of what your reply was going to be. Anyway, I already gave my rebuttal to your fAcTs so reposting it again doesn't count as an answer. I even had questions in my rebuttal that you have yet to answer but I am not expecting you to give answers to them because you got none. Please surprise me with your reply because this is getting soooo boring and predictable. Reposting the same thing over and over is starting to look like you are trying to convince yourself that you are right.

AlaricLives87

Facts, transphobe: Character bio on the main site. His gender is confirmed male and uses he/him pronouns. https://twokinds.keenspot.com/characters/ Reference sheet. Sex: female. Gender: male. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art/Natani-Reference-Sheet-792169381 "Natani has the mind of a guy and that's how he sees himself. He doesn't know the first thing about women or what they're like and thus doesn't relate to them at all. He doesn't actually hate his body even though he often says he does (in fact, as a guy, he finds his own body attractive, which is very confusing to him). Natani just hates that it changes how people see him. He doesn't want to be treated differently because of it. How and why it happened or whether it 'counts" isn't important to me. At the end of the day, a person is the culmination of their life experiences. Whether by choice or by magic, Natani is the way he is now, and the comic is about him trying to reconcile his mind and body. That's the conflict and it's it's what makes the character interesting to me." -Tom, Deviantart

Raven Jaxson

You disappoint me Alaric. So predictable, I asked to be surprised and I get this. Give me something new, fresh and exciting!

Drazgon

600th comment is mine MUAHAHA!

Raven Jaxson

That is the opposite of new, fresh and exciting. That is stale, old and boring. I was hoping to be the 600th comment, must have miscounted.

Alex

Onyx Jax -Are you just Raven on another account? Because I swear, if I didn't see your account name, i'd say Raven wrote that without hesitation.

Onyx Jax

There is no such thing as trans youth. I have seen plenty of people in the LGB community wanting nothing to do with the T or have it connected to them. There is also the fact that the T doesn't even belong at all. LGB is all about who you love while the T is about identity so where is the correlation between the two?

Sernard

Damn you people really have no life.

Your name

It’s not his ideas, it’s the ideas of the Patreons.

Your name

Yo Jaspin, the fuck are you on about?

Your name

But he doesn’t love you.

Drazgon

Pretty sure that canines and felines don't cool themselves by sweating. Do by panting.

Trigfur

I've heard so many women talk about how good it feels to take a bra off after getting hot, and adding fur and bindings covering an even larger surface area to the equation I can only imagine she would be feeling that relief in spades.

Sernard

That's where suggestions during the monthly polls matter, and then hope people vote for it.

Your name

He, but that doesn’t change the fact that what you said is correct- the only error was the choice of gender in your words.

Kris Schnee

It's nice to see her in a relaxed pose, even a bit vulnerable, while still clearly being a physically and emotionally tough character.