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Sorry, I just finished writing a long reply to a user comment in a previous post, and since I've been asked the same thing many times lately, I thought I would republish my answer here to give it some visibility.

The core part of the question was as follows.

"To download [the latest] version you need to:

1) Click on the pinned Welcome post to open https://www.patreon.com/realvr/posts/welcome-152405833

2) Scroll down to "Download and Setup instructions"

3) Click the "here" link to open https://www.patreon.com/realvr/posts/how-to-setup-r-e-152405468

4) Scroll aaaall the way down to "Early access version download"

5) Click the "here" link to open https://www.patreon.com/realvr/posts/early-access-152734106

6) Click the attachment to finally download the file.

Is this some kind of a dark pattern?"

And my reply was:

Haha you caught me out!

Yes, apart from the "stub" posts which I swear I'll get around to fleshing out one of these days, there is indeed a pattern to the post structure.

Basically, what used to happen was that SO MANY people would come here after watching a video on YouTube or something like that, just wanting to replicate what they saw as quickly as possible. They subscribed and immediately downloaded and installed the framework, without any understanding of how my software works.

Now, I do invest a lot of effort and time trying to ensure that using R.E.A.L. VR is as easy as possible, but let's face it: it's still a cutting edge, niche piece of software, living in the space of PCVR which is one of the most complex that you can find in the industry (so many different games, options, runtimes, headsets, hardware configurations, you name it). That means that a sizable percentage of those users will inadvertently make mistakes that completely ruin their experience in VR.

You know what happens after that. Very few of them (the ones with a positive attitude, which is becoming so rare to find these days) just come here again and ask for help with troubleshooting their issues, which usually Brandon or myself can solve simply by pointing them at some information they didn't see or know.

But the vast majority instead goes straight to the comment section of the YouTube video that got them here in the first place, or to some other mass frustration outlet like Reddit, and they start talking trash about me and R.E.A.L. VR to anybody who would listen. You know how this works; the less time users spend with a product, the more they feel entitled to bash it in public posts and discussions.

So, I'm just trying to make sure that those people, which unfortunately abound in gaming communities, will at least be forced to scroll through the instructions (how to install the framework, how to configure it for the game and so on) before they finally reach the download link.

They say you can bring a horse to the water, but you cannot make it drink. That's true, so of course I cannot guarantee that those users will actually READ the instructions and realize what's stopping them from having the amazing, jaw-dropping VR experiences that each of these games could offer them throughout hundreds of hours of gameplay.

But at least I can plant the seed of an idea, like in the Inception movie. So that when they set out to rant on (anti)social media about how crappy my software is, they will think for a moment: "Mmm wait, could it be... maybe it didn't work because of all those pages of instructions that I chose not to read?"

Comments

Matthew Kinsey

The past 3 years have been some of the greatest in gaming for me because of Luke's work. Now if we could just somehow get two of the greatest games ever made ( we know what 2 those are) back into early access and then to public free......life can be complete again. 🙏🏼

Kaylakaze -

"So that when they set out to rant on (anti)social media about how crappy my software is, they will think for a moment: "Mmm wait, could it be... maybe it didn't work because of all those pages of instructions that I chose not to read?"" That will never happen.

That black guy

Where the f$&# is my ..oh thanks Luke

Rick Aron

So far I played high on life, Avatar, now starwars outlaws. Im terrible using mods but once you understand the Luke Ross mod its extremely easy.

guillaume crozet

Hi Luke! How’s it going? Well, actually, I think most of these people are in a rush to try things out and don't take the time to do even a little bit of research. Personally, I’m a huge fan of UEVR, and just like with UEVR, your collection might require people to "dive in" a bit to understand how it works and get the most out of it. The difference is that nowadays we have ChatGPT or other AIs that are a huge help—even if they do make mistakes sometimes—yet it seems like people can't even be bothered to use AI. I guess there isn't much you can do about it. ^^

NW

You’re the man and I appreciate everything you’re doing, that said, as someone who isn’t a total moron it would be very nice to not need to jump through all this bs for a download link- I get you’re trying to help the lowest common denominator but you’ve literally built in purposeful friction for the people who have supported you for years and are not dumb. I’d reevaluate

Brandon(Post Maester)

Just bookmark the two posts or EA post in your browser, then you can find it easy peasy :)

Tomo

HI Luke, I asked few times this question but most likely in a time where you were forging away from Patreon comments. Right after a post is a good time to catch ya I feel! Dream Air - I am thinking about it but its shit lots of money and last thing I want is dropping the coin and be disappointed with the huge investment. I think you running the Quest 3 and have the Dream Air so perfect to give your opinion now that you had it for a while. I am playing Dead Space on full blast settings on my 5090 and I can not think that the visuals can get soo much better :) its good already! Can you convince me otherwise? I see videos of reviewers saying its the best visuals ever and worlds apart from a Quest 3 which on paper might be true but IS IT REALLY that good? I need your input on this please. so I can confidently stop eating less and saving more for the Dream Air (hoping for a black Friday sale) Short 2 questions: - Is the upgrade justifying the high costs ? Dream Air vs Q3 - Are all games running well with your mod and the Dream Air? after tinkering of course but at the end all runs well? Q3 is just so easy plug and play. thanks for taking time in replying. would really help making my mind up about next steps.

Tomo

exactly how hard is it ;)

Brandon(Post Maester)

"I am playing Dead Space on full blast settings on my 5090 and I cannot think that the visuals can get soo much better :)" I don't even have a Dream Air and I can tell you that they absolutely can get much better. OLED and much higher display resolution make a big difference, no if's and's or butts about it. Of course, I am sure you want to hear from people that have actually tried the headset, but Luke already told me it was the best headset he had tried by far. As Sboys3's driver gets better the headset will probably just continue to get better too. I can't see how you would be disappointed unless something better/cheaper comes along or it fits your face odd or Pimax screws up and breaks Sboys3's driver support or something like that 🙃 If I had the extra money to throw at one right now, I would absolutely do it.

Tomo

on a diet we go

Tomo

lol - lets be honest we both need it haha

Brandon(Post Maester)

Actually, I eat pretty healthy overall. I could definitely increase my physical activity though!

Tomo

bth I am hitting the gym daily, at least for an hour. sitting on ths fk chair in the office for way too many hours and for good measure few hours more for some relaxing Dead Space gaming ! haha... balance is key.

Tomo

you know if all games work with the Dream Air or some not so much

Stephen Gallagher

It is a pretty sick headset. I got every LR game to work except for the Spider-Man series, those don’t seem to hook for some reason. I’m also having some controller issues with Dead Space but I’m going to mess around with that when I’m back from vacation. I would save the cash, it’s so good it actually makes the future feel a bit bleak. I’m camping in VT going e-mountain biking, yet… here I am on this thread.

Tomo

thanks for sharing. yes looks like its a GO ! when I get there we push Luke to fix the Spidey series lol

Stephen Gallagher

I’m pretty sure Reddit & YouTube comments are 90% bots. I’ve been reading a lot of recent “reviews” or “complaints” in the VR space, hardware and software, that don’t seem human. Wonder who could be responsible? 🤔

John

Luke your framework is easy to install.your the greatest keep up the nice work.ill always support u .I'm 59 .and I didn't have any problems installing your framework.just want to say ty.

Heather pennock

You would make a lot of people happy if you updated the gta V vr mod

Brandon(Post Maester)

Don't really need any more DMCAs :) Playing the Enhanced edition in VR would be freaking awesome!

Brandon(Post Maester)

@Stephen, did you try disabling Steam Input for the Spidey games? Steam Input causes a lot of issues with the PlayStation ports for some reason. At least for some of us.

Tomo

getting hyped vision pro dual solo know band + 3d printed adapter and new face interface is a must too I feel

Brandon(Post Maester)

Well, you should probably try out the headset as is first 😉Don't spend a bunch of money on stuff you might find you don't need. Unless a bunch of owners tell you, it is a must. Then that makes some sense.

Tomo

From what i see its the way to go as standard parts dont cut it. - just painting road map

MadMaxMagnus

Bro, People don't read, they do exactly what is being stated, myself included in the early versions of the framework, but after ACTUALLY reading the fawkin directions and one post to Luke and Brandon, i found the light and the most amazing Vr experiences thanx to Luke and the Framework.

Tomo

we all found the light !

Tomo

damn my local dealer has 3 left he said and probably thats it for the year, sold 2 this week - arghhh..

NW

That doesn’t address the original point; intentional friction built into the process because people are dumb. I didn’t say it was hard, I didn’t say I couldn’t use a bookmark, I’m saying that it’s a stupid process and it’s annoying.

Eric Régnier

I totally agree with all said in this post. Unfortunately, haters gonna hate. This is hard for creators. On my side I however feel what people felt with Pateron. Now I know, but in my first times with this tool I was completely lost on pages organization, on comment management, browsing and all other things. Now, I just know how it works. But I still feel that is a terrible mess (I try to keep polite). This tool is a mess. Information is lost in Patreon , the way information are lost comparing traditional brosable forums compared with Discord. This is a terrible fucking mess while at the same time there is all you community, dears fellow pointing out very usefull information , suggestion, guides about technical stuff that would benefit to many. I really would like to help you guys (luke, brandon and other ?) to build something very much more simple and clean as a form of a knowlege databaase / website / QA thing / interactive usefull helping chatbot. This is not really scam but if the idea sprout somewhere in your mind, do not hesitate to ask me for this kind of tool that I can build quickly and easily for fun. I don't know however if I will find back this thread if there is some answer some days. In all case, thank you again for all this hard work.

LukeRoss

Yes, actually that is my feeling too. Isn't it wonderful? With bots we not only have created artificial intelligence, but also artificial stupidity.

flobv

I am human :)))

Joël Querci

Hi Luke and Brandon! I agree with the majority here : real vr is really simple to install! You make a very very great job and thank you both of you for the work! ❤️

Stephen Gallagher

Yes, I can get the 3 Spiderman games to run with a Vive XR Elite headset running through VRDesktop. In both the Pimax native drivers and Sboys3 it wants to hook, but it seems to back out after a second. It still renders the game in the custom resolution ratio, just in non VR steam theater mode. It's def not a big deal to me as this game looks a bit nauseating, and I still have a headset that will play it. It's just interesting that these 3 are the only LR games I couldn't get working with the Dream Air out of like the 40 I tried. Here's the log if your interested, and let me know if anything sticks out that's a problem. https://pastebin.com/3w61pqec Also, as I messaged you earlier, a basic HID mouse fixes the controller issues I was having with Deadspace. Seems that a fancy gaming mouse that Steam interprets as a gamepad may cause interference. Thanks for your help troubleshooting.

Stephen Gallagher

I'm probably the only one the stock face gasket and strap work for me. My biggest issue is the volume, not that its low necessarily. It doesn't get directed into the ears. It needs like a 3d printed cup around the speakers to redirect the sound. But I'll probably buy the fancy DMAS strap when it comes out anyways.

Tomo

Can headphones be connected?

Tomo

Damn for so much money you would think they are at least as good as quest 3 speakers which i find quite okay

Tomo

You ever had quest3? Is sound comparable?

JshodanVR

Off topic, are you sure the DS: otb mod is ok? Is a but clunky compare to DS1 doesent look polished as the ds1.

mrshantiman

Hi Tomo. My experience so far: Out of the box comfort is also ok for me. Sound is great, I usually have to lower it to 80%. In Totentanz nightclub I cupped my ears with the hands and got my head melted. LR supported games I tried: Dead Space: Next Level Star Wars Outlaws: Looks good and works up to a resolution of app. 33 ppd. Beyond that it turns black with white snow floating around. Death Stranding 1: Beautiful Elden Ring: Looks trash so far in a lot of areas and felt overall better on my HP Reverb G1. Far Cry 5: Good Far Cry 6: About to do a fresh install as I could not get it to run. CP: It’s ok but I was a bit disappointed

Brandon(Post Maester)

How so? Part 2 is more combat centric. I think it plays really well though.

JshodanVR

Sorry not talking about the gameplay. About the mod. Looks perform worst in every case. Rain is not evel fall straight compare to vr. Lots of blurry and strange flickering.

Brandon(Post Maester)

The game is more performance heavy itself, so that definitely matters. Does the rain fall change if you switch to the 2d screen? I do get some DLSS artifacts but that is not uncommon with other games too, but it looks pretty solid overall for me. I don't get lots of blur or flickering. What headset are you using? Nvidia GPU with DLSS? Of course make sure anything like motion blur and depth of field etc. is turned off.

JshodanVR

Thank you for the reply. I just finished DS1 in VR from start to finish (50h). Amazing experience, it looked crystal clear—RTX 5090, Pimax Crystal. Everything between 30–40 PPD, 1:1 aspect ratio, and I was getting about 80–90 FPS. DLSS Quality. Here in DS2 OTB, I obviously applied the recommended settings from Luke's post. However, besides having lower performance, it still doesn't feel optimized. Turning the camera causes some blurriness and smudging, and everything is less sharp even at high PPD. Also, even when the frame rate counter shows 100 FPS, it really doesn't feel like 100... visually it looks like way less. And yes, inside the headset, the rain falls diagonally and cross-eyed, while on the 2D screen it falls correctly... I don't know, maybe it's just my PC.... :-(

Tomo

thanks for sharing., esp the Audio bit as its getting mixed reviews (and Dead Space working without controler issues!). I assume its also not fogging up as there are 2 cooling fans so thats ticked too. My Bobo VR is running full Steam always with fans as Australia has only one season. HOT. I think its a GO especially as nothing comparable is in sight and we have Brandon to put out any set up fires per game :)

Brandon(Post Maester)

Well, 100fps would be 50fps per eye if you are using Legacy rendering mode. You could try changing the DLSS preset with DLSS swapper. I think this one uses K, which should actually hold up well with motion. You could try updating to a newer model which uses M and L. I'll try to jump in tomorrow; I haven't played it in a while now. You could also try FSR, but I think DLSS with DL(S)SS is the best option for this game. Would be nice if it had an option for no AA at all. How are you measuring fps? Are you using the built-in fps tracker for REAL?

Adam Munoz

About your mods being out in the wild…. So I ‘might’ be wrong, it looks like there are other modders building off of your framework to mod other games. I have no issue with that and I wish them well. (They have the same menus just in different colors, launchers, etc). And really, I do hope they can find success too. With that being said Luke, man, have they got some way to go. I was trying the Mass Effect mods out, and man did I sorely miss your mod. The lack of options, the performance was terrible. I really do with them well. Just got a way to go. Back to Dead Space!

Brandon(Post Maester)

Maybe they are also using imGUI, which would make sense..... I have gotten the same impression so far about the recent burst of VR conversions. They mostly seem pretty rough. I was excited to try the Witcher 3 conversion, but it still needs plenty of work. It is now playable mostly and getting updated at a really fast pace but still has issues. Looks really good though. And this is one of those rare games where you can just disable AA and it still looks fairly good without too much aliasing. The guy working on it confirmed that the game is kind of a mess and they made some really weird choices that make it hard to work around.

Adam Munoz

Thanks for that tip! I am happy for the growth of VR lately. Gonna try the BioShock’s soon. Happy gaming Brandon!

Richard Mayne

Has the Luke Ross VR implementation for Crimson Desert improved or is performance better now? By how much? Thanks.

Brandon(Post Maester)

That depends entirely on when you tried it :) Since Luke initially supported the game, he made some improvements to DL(S)SS for it so it looks much better. There isn't much he can do about the game's performance itself and that doesn't seem to have improved. Actually, the latest patch seems possibly a bit worse on performance at the high end. But maybe not, I didn't try clearing my shader cache yet. So possibly the same. Feel free to watch my video to get a feel for performance though.

JshodanVR

i'm no using legacy, using 1/3 and aer2 something activated immediately below. an dll(s)ss Swapping KLM doesen't give any help in quality sharpness. to check fps i read it from the framework.

JshodanVR

And yes rains is not fall strait, still falls at an angle, though. To the left in the right lens, and to the right in the left lens.

Mark Watson

You really need to set up a home page or something. That download link is a pain in the ass to find. Its also really frustrating to find help for a game. Individual game links would be nice.

Brandon(Post Maester)

Just post help requests under the newer Patreon posts. What is the issue?

Mark Watson

Well I dont want to wait for help lol. I want to solve my issue in the moment and move on. A nice organized by game system is desperately needed.

Mark Watson

I come to this site once a month ish. I always have to start over searching for that buried download link for the patreon version. Its bad design bro. I feel like we should have links right at the top of the homepage. One for Patreon version, one for free version, and one to open a list of supported games with all the current detailed notes on how to set up for that game. And keep it current so we don't gotta slog through all the texts and posts to find it. IM not trying to be a dick but I may cancel my subscription soon. I hate how long it takes me to find information on a specific game when its not the latest post.

Brandon(Post Maester)

Fair, most of them haven't been updated so aren't available. You can just bookmark the EA download page or public one though ;P Or just type "download" into the search bar and they are both towards the top.