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Black Mirror 202-204 (Patreon)

Published:
2024-04-30 12:00:34
Imported:
2026-06
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Black Mirror: Season 2 Episode 2 - 4 - Patreon Version

Comments

droodly

Just started work. Skipped breakfast. Have about five hours til lunch. That's how you start the episode? Mother Fudger!

Josip Buretić

Cannot wait to get home from work and watch your reaction

Chris B

Just sitting down to the reaction. Waldo is usually the worst (or one of the 2 worst) ranked episodes of BM...so there's no way to go but up ;)

MoonageDaydream

I’ve never watched the Waldo episode cause I heard it was rubbish. White Bear and Christmas will be a trip though 🥲

Deserana12

Gonna skip Waldo, that episode is shite. However the other two are top top tier episodes

Mark McKeown

White Christmas and White Bear are two of my favs

Stugotz

George being completely confused during White Bear is so hilarious! 😂 Poor guy's brain was working overtime

droodly

I don't understand why they are so fixated on making White Bear make moral sense? It's a satirical commentary heightening the things we see and do as a people. A BLACK MIRROR on society? Right?

William

Great reaction guys. George is wrong with his analysis "White Bear" If you commit a crime while on drink and drugs, and then wake up in a Police cell at 6am, and don't remember what you did, this is no defence. The court will not entertain that plea. Well in the UK anyway, I don’t know about Canada. I don’t know if the actress “Lenora Crichlow” won any awards, but she should have done for her performance

miniature
>>136630724

you dont understand why theyre having a discussion about morality in an episode about the morality of punishment? really? lol

miniature
>>136630790

nah i think youre oversimplifying a bit. black out drunk is not memory wipe. its losing the memory of the crime itself, but hes talking about entire memory. like actual jason bourne situation, which i guess that movie was talking about. if an assassin loses the memory of being an assassin, is he still an assassin or just a guy with unique self defense skills.

MacGuffinStuff

Just finished White Bear reaction, this show is challenging and this episode is a great example of that. Now I'm about to go to work with all these thoughts, questions, swimming around my head lol. I think what is most disturbing is just that passively sadistic GLEE that people get from being judgemental. We see it in comments sections all the time, and it's ironic and kind of makes me laugh because I find myself being judgmental of people being judgemental, like when someone comments something really negative about a post and I want to comment "well you could just keep scrolling," and then I realize, so could I. Another thing I find really interesting about this one is how the actor in the story pretending to help the main character says something very telling, about how when the rules change you see aspects of human nature, bad ones, come to the surface, and I think it's scary how fast that can happen. I really want to see Civil War, Alex Garland hasn't failed me yet, really curious what he has to say.

Scoobay

Love the shirt, George.

miniature

i just have a feeling the white bear episode is going to result in some very very extreme comments. and my guess is it will be in the nature of "Simone and George has different morality compass than i do, so there for they are wrong and i am right and now i am mad because why didnt they say the things i would've said!" remember guys, black mirror is a show designed to question morality and have discussions. and discussions can only exist if you allow different points of views. adults discuss things. children scream "im right youre wrong so shut up"

Stugotz

The premise of White Bear is fucked up, no doubt about that, I just have a hard time sympathizing with a person that was involved with and filmed the brutal murder of a child. It's weird, I don't feel bad for her, but I do think torturing her is not the way to go. Honestly, maybe being locked in a cell with the knowledge of the horrible thing you did might be punishment enough, unless she was a complete sociopath and didn't have any feelings about it.

miniature
>>136631721

yeah i mean thats the clincher isnt it, "with the knowledge of the horrible things you did". does the punishment still work if that crucial element is not there?

jose giron

Yeah once you take away the memory of what that person did, then your punishing an empty shell of a person. Punishment only works when the criminal knows he is being punished for what they did imo

Astraeos

Yeah I'll probably be back more to edit this comment or add more in another comment, but I gotta say, your guys' reaction to White Bear was everything I wanted. Great reaction. The horror and shock and confusion you guys had was just everything. This is what makes this show. And you guys haven't even gotten to White Christmas yet. Or other episodes like Nosedive, Hated in the Nation, etc.

megamoo chilli

I like how White Bear makes you think about the purpose of punishment.

Tay Schumaker

Black Mirror at its best makes you question a lot of things. White Bear isn’t my favorite but it is one that promotes the most discussion. And it’s one of those I don’t envy going right in to the next episode. I remember having to sit with White Bear for like a week before I could move on to the next episode

Leo Gets

yeah i agree that punishing a criminal only works if the criminal knows why its happening. like george said its revenge not justice. and i think the show knows that and thats why the sequence of events are depicted the way it did. it shows how cruel everyone is, then gives the reveal of what the victim did in the past, then shows the lynch mob again in an even worse light. its to ask the audience "does what she did before the memory wipe change how you feel about the lynch mob?"

Stugotz

I know the majority don't like the Waldo episode but I liked it. Actually it seems pretty relevant nowadays.

mojo shivers

The first time I saw “White Christmas” and its triptych format, I thought it was a cool concept. I love any kind of story that incorporates telling stories in it and those stories end up being super relevant. And the way this episode combines everything together makes for a good a-ha moment at the end.

Stugotz

I love when they say "this is such a weird episode" That's literally every episode!! 😂

Sean Holdsworth
>>136637109

Thats the thing it is justice the very thing she did is happening to her its not punishment its justice

Hunterrim

As disturbing as White Bear is, it’s got some fantastic acting. Very raw, feels too real

Opti_Frog

White Bear is a terrific story, rich with themes and subtext. And i hate it. The reason it makes me sick is that i know that a not insignificant percentage of the people watching the episode would gladly visit the White Bear Justice Park, phone in hand, thinking it's fair punishment. Lots of great actors in The Waldo Moment, from Star Trek, Game of Thrones, Ted Lasso ect. Probably the most British episode so far. As i understand it, Waldo was loosely based on Boris Johnson, and, well... that clownish cartoon character of a politician became prime minister with a massive fanbase. I think you need some insight into UK politics to really appreciate this episode. Or read a couple of interviews with Black Mirror creator Charlie Brooker. It's interesting stuff. Very much enjoyed this episode.

TGrimace

"cruel and unusual crimes require cruel and unusual punishments" is a quote from a Niven book (I think it was Niven). White Bear takes this and runs with it. It's very hard for me to agree with that statement after watching this episode. But before watching it, I more or less agreed with it. It sounds like an excellent deterrent for cruel and unusual crimes. Who would put a 7 yr old girl in a sleeping bag and burn her if they knew this was what was waiting for them at the end of it? She was put in the place of the girl she tortured and killed (while just filming it). Pretty much in the exact headspace that girl was in. Confused and terrified. But at the same time, it's horrible. Beyond that, it's simply not right.

Deepan Nathan

Can’t wait for you guys to re start BB but season 3 of black mirror is probably the best one

KIERON

Glad you both "enjoyed" the first 2 seasons, will you be continuing after BB?

megamoo chilli

Talking about the xmas episode. I don't think she tormented the guy. She definitely cheated, but we don't know that she even knew who the father was until it was born. All she did was block someone who got violent as soon as the pregnancy test was found. The dude tormented himself by going after someone who didn't want him. She didn't know he was driving up there and spying on her every xmas. Obviously she should have just told him the baby wasn't his and maybe he could have moved on with his life. The whole episode is a sequence of bad decisions and a tragedy of errors.

Chris B

Is it already back to BrBd? I somehow thought you're doing 3 seasons of BM and then back to BrBd. But I might have remembered incorrectly. Any order you do it, doesn't matter, just make sure to get to season 3 of BM becasue it's the best one I think.

Cincassette

As much as I like these shows, I do hope you will choose a less dark and downright depressing TV show for a change at some point 😅. Personally I think "The White Lotus" or "The Good Place" would be great! There are still some great episodes of Black Mirror ahead though, particularly in S3 and S4.

Dan Holmes

yikes i can't stand the performances in the first one lol

Jeff I.
>>136653676

White Bear? The lead actress did an amazing job, and the actor playing the man running the whole thing was good too.

Nikolai

White Christmas is maybe my favourite episode of Black Mirror and I've been really excited to see it on here since you started!

soup3097

You def need to react to season 3 and season 4! Some of the best episodes in the whole show and will give you a true appreciation for the writing

J. Valentine

Simone trying to explain her own thoughts is so funny lmao

Odd Thomas

Season 3 is the best season imo

Michael

I hope you guys do more Black Mirror in the future. Also, lasagna and baklava for me.

Śéáń

White Bear and The Waldo Moment are two of my least favourite episodes in the early seasons, unfortunately. White Bear is extremely grim but is at least some food for thought for what we regard as punishment vs revenge, but I just didn't enjoy Waldo Moment at all on my first watch. Maybe I will this time, I'm writing this just after White Bear. Not my favourites, hopefully it doesn't deter from watching the third season which has two of my absolute favourite stories in the show. Looking forward to White Christmas, I haven't seen it since it aired, but remember really enjoying it.

Śéáń

With regards to White Bear, I agree with George that with her mind wiped, it's not a real punishment as it's technically not even the same person if they don't have the memory of the crime, but at the same time, I don't think her punishment is about her anymore, it's now for the audience. Her life sentence is now theme park, a guilt-free way to act out the same inclinations that The Most Dangerous game plays to. They have found someone that nobody pities in order to profit off her suffering. They found a way to monetise Sisyphus by selling admission tickets to watch his boulder push.

Kyle Fleming

Black Mirror… the only television show where self deletion is the “happier ending/alternative”. Seriously though, this show is still great. 😅

Jeff I.

Just throwing in another recommendation to eventually watch Season 3 of Black Mirror. It has six episodes, and four of them are generally considered among the best in the entire series.

iOmegaTron
>>136645637

Came here to say this. I understood the episode more as a way to show the girl's kidnapper, torturer, and murderer how terrifying it must have been for the little girl, who had no idea why any of these awful things were happening to her.

E. D.

fun fact: i rewatched g&s‘s wayne‘s world reaction last night

Zinphad

I love these conversations that the show provokes (which is what I love about the show). Thanks for sharing.

Vig

I love the game at the start. You do realize one of the main reasons we follow you guys is because of YOU GUYS. This is not annoying at all, quite the opposite.

Michael LaPorte

I think White Bear is also partially a commentary on the popularity of true crime shows. "In 1982 John Smith murdered his whole family - now watch the whole story with recreations and three commercial breaks".

Paul Sapp

I was not troubled by white bear...maybe that speaks to my darkness

Śéáń
>>136675034

White Christmas was billed as a TV movie that released after season 2, before the show moved from Channel 4 to Netflix. It kind of floats between the two, so I guess it's now part of Season 2 to include it in the series while keeping the dividing line for the latter Netflix half of the show.

BangDroid

My impression of the end of Waldo was that The CIA took over and used Waldo to subvert foreign countries (like they do). The part where the militarized police come and harass homeless people sleeping under a bridge while not hurting anyone or breaking any laws, is very Torie in policy, which makes me think Waldo didn't win in the UK but he sewed enough apathy in the democratic process that nothing changed and the Tories continued their rule and setting up the circumstance where people become homeless, then punish people for being homeless. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, but it's ok 'cause we can all laugh at this idiot bear.

JusteFlo

First off, I ended on Shawarma and Tarte Tatin. Secondly, for Simone's sake (and ours), take a break from all the doom and gloom, killings and all, and put up some feel good series in the next poll. I'd recommend The Good Place or My Name Is Earl

Dan Holmes

inherent evil exists george lol

Chris Bowles

I don't think White Bear is about punishment. It's about making the guilty person feel how their victim felt in their last moments. In this case: alone, confused, scared.

Shane Driscoll

As much as I disliked White Bear, there were a couple interesting bits: - The episode seems to imply that she was she was genuinely remorseful when she testified at her trial. However, because her fiance died, she was the only one left upon whom society could unload their outrage. - I think George was onto something when George said at some point you're just punishing a completely different person. It's kind of like the ship of Theseus: if a criminal genuinely reforms and regrets what they did, at what point have they changed enough that you should treat them as a totally different person and let them go free?

Ricardo Alanis

Please continue with the series. Even if it’s just a season at a time, this show is filled with tremendous storytelling and food for thought.

Tom M

Whaaat? I was with you like 2/3 of the time Simone. I would’ve went pho… Peking duck… sushi. Or possibly just pho every answer. It has to be from a suburban DC strip mall. The pho I had in HCM is much different. I need my strip mall pho.

AdmiralZhou

White Christmas is definitely one of my favorite episodes of the whole series. One thing I was thinking of while watching the reaction: if Jon Hamm's character is blocked by everyone, can he watch TV/movies? Or would everyone on tv be blocked too? I guess only books for him. That's crazy

Alexander Brown

White Bear's not so much about punishment as it is about how public sentiment around criminal indictment goes beyond justice and into actual, sick, enjoyment of punishing the criminal. Brooker was directly inspired by the media circus surrounding the Oscar Pistorius trial. When you said "that's what everyone else is doing now;" that's 100% the point.

Leo Gets
>>136690740

i like that you just made the statement as if its concretely proven, and not just personal belief.

REDR58
>>136696094

Hypothetically, I think it makes more sense to release someone who is truly no longer aware of her or his actions and is essentially a different person than it does to release someone from prison due to age or illness.

REDR58

In the US at least, some if not all state executions have witnesses, usually the family of the victim, reporters and a few others. Some victims want to see it, I suppose. I would not want to witness such a thing. Edit: I wonder, in the universe of this episode, how long the reliving each day goes on for. How long can the “actors” keep it up? It’s like doing a horrible stage play day after day, until what, the “condemned” somehow dies/brain snaps/the audience loses interest?

Travis H

I am not watching the show with you two, but am watching the discussions. Your discussion on White Bear(?) made me want you two to watch The Good Place even more that I already did. I hope you continue Black Mirror purely because I want you both to experience San Junipero!

Joaquin Stick
>>136666027

I kinda like White Bear, but Waldo Moment is easily one of the worst of the episodes that I've seen (through season 4)

An Inanimate Fucking Object

You guys would love The Good Place--it raises many philosophical questions for you both to ponder like White Bear but it's also a charming and light comedy that will not make Simone want to vomit!

MacGuffinStuff

Rafe Spall, the actor opposite John Hamm in White Christmas, he really turned out to be a good actor, but every time I see him I still remember him as Noel, the annoying 17 year old in Shaun of the Dead.

Patrick

What a PITA to sync with US Netflix. Edit : This show thinks it's smarter than it is. I gave it a few episodes, but I'm done.

Joey Johansen

'it's not justice, it's revenge' I think this is the commentary put forth against our prison system, by the show.

Piep
>>136698382

Funny, when the show was first aired i was sure he whould die. Even basic stuff like shopping or getting someone to fix something in your home, not to mention work. Today I´m just like "oh he works from home now and orders everything online, easy peasy."

Jon
>>136729800

.... I don' get the "This show thinks it's smarter than it is" comment... what do you mean by that ? 🤔

scott melton

Would be nice to have YT edits - but will acknowledge may be a pain to edit. Sometimes I just wanna put something on w/o having to sync it up. Wanted to watch your reaction, but... these are kinda wasted on me.

Rafael Benedicto

I don't think the episodes are in the same universe. I think the stuff you saw from previous episodes are just Easter eggs.

Allan Liebold
>>136637290

Yeah, my impression was that it was initially deemed too far-fetched to be believable, but then the real world's absurdity kind of caught up with it and people started to turn around on it. It doesn't seem like that from these comments though. I wonder how many of the people who dislike like it have rewatched it since it first came out.

Vince Bowman

I hope you keep watching this! I love black mirror

Thirty Year Old Mulberry Field
>>136761032

I prefer to think it’s not all set in the same universe as well but as the episodes go on there’s more of these easter eggs thrown in fueling speculation that it’s a shared universe, or at least some episodes.

Harry Fieldson

Would love it if you guys did a playthrough/watchthrough of Black Mirror: Bandersnatch!

Pasemi

I don't think setting up White Bear to have a twist was a good idea. The memory wipe makes the whole thing look really stupid and pointless, and it doesn't help that the first part takes away time that could be used to flesh out the justice park idea. But I liked the VTUBER SHADOW GOVERNMENT episode.

Philipp Roensch

Yeah episode 2 is kinda shite, removing personality out of a prisoner just to do a punishment, what is the lesson? The amusement park, full of white and torch bearing people btw, would have made for something interesting, but have no Sci-Fi twist. It is just too corny and heavy-handed. Waldo is a bit stronger, puts a nice view onto the contrarian political character and issues with that. Liked how the voice behind the character was just a normal dude, just gaslight by his production team. Now the final episode is a real banger, I love the interweaving of the technologies in the stories, and they gray and darker characters. Food for thought: What if the murderess was not actually schizophrenic, but got hacked by pervy strangers so often that she cannot keep the voices apart. That one really hits the main conceit of scary tech and even scarier people, and a society that is apparently ok with all the punishments.

Ricardo Alanis

Due to my own time constraints I watched White Bear and then White Christmas. Today I watched The Waldo Moment and appreciated it more than my first go-around especially with how politics have evolved since then. Still heartily hope you toss in a Black Mirror season here and there. For me personally, each season has fantastic episodes. Any series has a so-so episode but for my money, this is one of the consistently best shows on TV.

JBK405

Your debate about the question "If you remove the memory of the crime, are you still punishing the same person?" makes me want to point you to the series "Babylon 5". In that sci-fi show, the death penalty has been replaced with "Death of personality" where a person's mind is erased and a new personality is programmed to live out the rest of their life as a whole new person. The idea being that the one who actually committed the crime is now gone. It's a minor worldbuilding element mentioned here-and-there throughout the series, usually brought up to start this very debate among the characters. But there's one episode that actually FOCUSES on it, and they do explicitly argue over whether the erase itself is punishment enough, and if you go on to punish them afterwards are you now guilty of harming an innocent person as well? That episode is regarded as one of the best episodes of the series.

REDR58

I haven’t watched too many anthology series series before, but I’m really enjoying Black Mirror overall. It’s introducing me to a bunch of all new actors I haven’t seen working before in, so I’m checking them out in other things, although I do recognize a few of them, of course from The Crown and other British shows. Edit: I noticed that the pregnancy test device in “White Christmas” is the same one in “The Entire History of You.”

James Bundy

Black Mirror is such a cool glimpse into what we are all like.

Mark McKeown

The first time I watched White Christmas, back when it came out, I was thinking about it for days. The punishment at the end is absolutely insane. I've always guessed they'd take maybe 3-4 days off, you wouldn't get 2 weeks off for Christmas over here, it's more like a long weekend, so you're talking maybe 4 million years - Hardly that much better. Makes me feel ill thinking about it!

LazyArtist

If you don't watch the rest of the series (at some point), then I'm going to go live in a cookie and relive my disappointment for a thousand years. *sticks tongue out at monitor*

LazyArtist
>>137088896

Also, you might consider doing a SINGLE SEASON between big series, whenever it suits you. Or just whenever. Throw it in there. Eventually you'll get through the whole thing. And Season 3 is iconic. In fact, some of the episodes feel more like a dream than, you know, an effin sledgehammer. There are even some laughs! (I know, right.)

Sergio Meira
>>136816384

I tend to disagree with your view on Ep. 2, because punishing never has a 'lesson' in it -- it's always something done to (a) make the perpetrator suffer ('revenge porn') and (b) convince others not to commit the same crime ('this will happen to you if you do' -- think of leaving hanged people out after execution so others could see them). The punishment park here does both jobs. It's actually the kind of thing that a more 'revenge'-oriented vision of punishment (which seems to be getting more popular these days, now that we are reverting to less polite interactions, especially here in the US) would do. Just do a poll once asking how many peope would support the idea of such a park for appropriately hideous crimes... It may not make ethical/philosophical sense, but it does make a lot of human sense. Like other Black Mirror episodes, it's the kind of thing people could get behind.

Sergio Meira

"Who you are, are the memories you have... So if you don't even remember, do you even deserve to be punishment?" Reminds me of a Babylon 5 episode about "the death of personality" and how their legal system operated under this assumption -- that someone is his memories, so if we wipe out yours, you're no longer you but rather some new person that has just been born. (Compare the "innies" and "outies" of Severance: are they the same person, since they can't remember each other?) And yet... if we are simply the sum of our memories, then nobody really dies whose memories are copied and stored somewhere. In fact, there could be two, three, four, infinitive legitimate copies of us, all indistinguishabe from us because they have our exact same memories... and what does that do to authenticity? I think the problem here is the first 80% of the White Bear episode make us empathize with the perpetrator, and we do, because perpetrators are, well, humans like us all. So I end up thinking the episode is not so much about "cruel" and "unusual" punishment, as about the idea of punishment in general. What is punishment for? What do we gain by making perpetrators suffer? Does this makes them better people? Does this make us better people? We may not commercialize punishment, unlike the people in this episode, but we certainly "enjoy" it -- not so long ago, we had public executions, didn't we? And if an appropriately wicked person was executed with cruelty (just think of convicted people being whipped or hamstrung or houghed or quartered or shredded, and in public...). Bottom line: we punish because we're angry. We punish in a rage. It's not really rational behavior.

Divinerights

Do cookies deserve human rights, and does code and maybe robots too?

EMB

I'm late to the party as usual. For Episode 2: In my opinion it's a story of retributive "justice" but taken to a hell of an extreme. The goal isn't to reform or rehabilitate the convict, it's to get retribution against the convict. To have them suffer, and in this case watch them suffer. It also depicts how people are capable of doing heinous things to a person if they think that they deserve it. It's an easy mindset to slip into, and we see people IRL with opinions about the treatment of prisoners that are in the same vein as this, though usually less extreme, and less theatrical. Like problems with prisoners having no AC/Heat (particularly bad in the U.S. as many prisons are located in hot climates) and there have been many incidents even recently of heat deaths in prisons, in Texas last year during their record heatwave it was reported that 41 prisoners died because of the heat. Other problems like rotten food, the pervasive violence and gangs, and rape are often downplayed or disregarded. There are so many jokes in media about prison rape, and they often land because people often assume that because someone is in prison, they don't deserve humane treatment. I've been in the rehabilitative and restoration justice camp for a long time now. I don't think there is much or any value in retributive justice other than a sick catharsis, and maybe a deterrent, though harsher punishments don't seem to do much to reduce crime. But if someone does a crime, particularly not a victimless crime (which I don't understand why incarceration would even been used for a victimless crime), and is sentenced to prison time, if they are severely punished and treated inhumanely, how are they supposed to re-integrate when they're released? So in my opinion, rehabilitating and reforming the convict, and some sort of reparations to the victim(s) should be the priority of the criminal justice system. I think at the least it would cut down on recidivism if we focused less on punishment and more on reformation and rehabilitation. For Episode 3: This one just feels like a warning against political apathy. Part of that is on the fault of politicians and political parties for not adapting to their electorate, political apathy has always been a problem to some extent or another, but it does feel like it's on the rise. The apathy about the current parties can lead to someone so outside the norm becoming very appealing (Can't imagine that!), even if their policies are either non-sense or against your own interests. For Episode 4: This one touches on similar themes to episode 2, particularly at the end when they leave his consciousness in the limbo cabin for millions for years. That is such unfathomable cruel and unusual punishment that it makes episode 2 almost seem tame by comparison, which feels weird to say. There's also the question of unreasonable search and seizure (I'm going off of U.S. legal wording, but I'm sure other countries have similar laws). Is it ethical to essentially take a copy of someone's consciousness without their consent for a criminal investigation? Couldn't that easily just be turned to torture to extract a confession? While they're incorporeal, and probably not covered by any legal protections (law tends to lag behind tech more and more as tech continues to advance rapidly), I'm of the opinion if there is an AI that is sentient to the level we already have legal protections for, such as animal cruelty on the lower end to torture and cruel and unusual punishment on the upper end, they should have legal protections as well. The whole blocking thing is just incredibly harmful for interpersonal interaction. It's honestly disgusting to think about. They could've just had a restraining order like we have now, combined with the GPS which would make the order much more enforceable, but the grey blobs are just disturbing. The registry John Hamm's character gets put on is just terrible, and to an extent I'd consider cruel and unusual punishment, even for offenders that were worse than him. Being around people constantly, but always shunned, unable to communicate, unable to work, or maybe even get food or services, and being a target for violence everywhere you go, most people would probably snap. He'd be better off in jail, at least he would be less likely to hurt someone, because I can imagine even a short amount of time like that and someone would probably become a danger to themselves and others. Sorry, I like typing out my thoughts, and tend to get carried away. If you read it all, wow! Thanks! I'd be happy to discuss more. Great reaction, have a good day :D

EMB
>>142914039

As they're depicted here, I would say yes. Maybe not "human rights" per se, but civil rights.

Noel Valdez
>>143354228

You're so right about episode two! It's a disturbing episode to watch, but the prison industry in the US is a private industry, just like it was in that episode. Also in the US so many people are locked up and we just focus on putting them away instead of actually trying to make them better people and fit for society again. It shows how people can dehumanize another group. It's okay these locked up people are treated badly, they're bad guys. We see it in the real world people justify the outright torture of others or groups and like in the episode go a step further and actually gleefully have fun in the torture or mistreatment of others. The episode is very relevant still and I think could be something thats shown to open a conversation of how we treat people who do bad things. I think a way society treats its worst shows a lot about how that society is overall.

Noel Valdez

I loved where George was at the end of the white bear discussion! Because it to me points out a very good point that this society isn't focused on making people better it's only focused on punishment. I believe that people are a product of where they grow up and how, and that a person is what they are around them. If you could just wipe someone clean they could become a new good member of society and just reintegrate. But it's a lot like how we are now. Whenever someone commits a crime there's no effort in actually trying to solve the problem or rehabilitate them. It's just punishment and usually the prison sentence doesn't fit with the crime they did. IE, being a drug dealer, or stealing something. (I'm basing this off the US because thats where I'm at) but they go into this place won't get any help or solve way they did what they did and then when they enter society again they do crime again. Nothing changes or gets better. The episode makes you feel gross or sick but to me if it makes you feel like that you should look hard at what the state of the world is because it's not far off IMO. The private prison industry is gross and the fact that the US has so many people locked up is sick to me.

Bmac Tattoo
>>146287537

So if people are a product of their environment/upbringing...and are raised by criminal parents/family, what is your solution when these young adults steal, assault people and sell drugs etc??? Prisoners can take classes, go to counseling and better themselves if they choose to. Or continue their thug life and teach their kids to be thugs too. "So many people locked up". Yes. So???? The USA is out of control now and there aren't really any short term or long term solutions. It will be a 3rd world country soon. So it doesn't really matter. Let em all out and get it over with. lol

Eric Parler

Episode 2 = psychopaths punishing psychopaths for being psychopaths