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The Last of Us: 203 & 204 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-05-16 12:30:11
Edited:
2026-01-06 23:33:16
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

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Comments

Ihor Krasman

Nice! p.s. wrong title, guys

Cory Garron

So it is episodes 3 & 4?

Mrbluegrand

Wow did not realize you guys were sort of berated for episode 1 and 2. I totally agree w you George. Abby to me is a hypocrite, and she was enjoying the torture. Also the doctor gave Joel no choice (At least in the game). The creator saying that the fireflies would find a cure just feels stupid. Sure they might procure a cure but no realistic way the world would be saved from that.

Levi Curry

Your anger and dislike of Abby is correct. You're supposed to hate her character. But as the story unfolds, the question arises, can you empathize with someone you hate?

Nathan Jasper

she wasn't enjoying the torture. She was crying and screaming as she did it. She was in pain. If she was enjoying it, she'd be laughing like the Joker.

Helly R

Unlike Ep1/2, can I suggest we to avoid casual game spoilers in the comments.

Ray H

Dina is a good planner but she freezes during intense situations or if there are deviations of the plan as we saw multiple times this episode when she kept looking back at the infected. Dina may be “competent” but when shit hits the fan, she needs Ellie to make the fast decisions like Ellie shoving her arm in front of the infected to save Dina. If you can’t have all of that in one, it’s good to have characters whose strengths outweigh the other’s weaknesses.

Zhivko Yakimov

Yeah, I am with you about the intimate scene in episode 4, it comes a bit too sudden. The thing is, it is a writing room issue, as in the game, Ellie and Dina have already started their relationship. I understand they wanted to make it a bit more gradual, but I don't think they made the correct decision delaying the start of the relationship so much. I suppose they wanted to build it up, with Ellie playing guitar to Dina and all. By the way, the "Take On Me" scene is completely optional in the game, and you can easily miss it if you don't explore much. The biggest issue for me is that the tone is quite more light-hearted than in the game at this point. In the game, Ellie is much more focused on her revenge, and the whole story flows much more smoothly because of it. So it gets a bit sad, as people appear to be taking it on Bella Ramsey, with all kinds of memes going around, and I don't think it is an acting issue. Finally, "Day One" is a reference to the game, it is how chapters are named, i.e. their first day in Seattle. And no, I am not saying how many days there are in the story :) Overall, I am enjoying the series, but I don't think all of the changes they did to the story are for the better this season.

robodong

Nathan i think the crying and screaming is more to do with unleashing pent up anger. her own people had to tell her to stop and put an end to it. if you arent enjoying something, you would just stop. you dont need others to tell you "hey thats enough".

Nathan Jasper

It was a five year jump remember. Owen said at the start of episode 1 that he knew a man in Seattle named Isaac who was the head of a group. He suggested they go to them for resources and help in finding Joel.

Marko T.

Episode 4 is my favorite of this season so far.

MoonageDaydream

Yeah I don’t think “enjoying” is the right word here. Did she look happy and satisfied after when she was walking through the snow with her crew? She looked miserable.

Mrbluegrand

I agree with what BeninLabour said about your point so I wont repeat it, but wanted to add I understand that Abby was/is hurting from the loss/murder of her dad, and have no idea what I would be doing in the same scenario but I still think her speech was hypocritical and that she was enjoying the pain she put Joel through.

Mrbluegrand

MoonageDaydream I mean, I think she felt good during then shit after. So yes I would still say she enjoyed it.

robodong

Moonage, i think she looked miserable after because revenge is never as sweet as we imagined. but thats a lesson afterwards. during it, she clearly was having a rage boner imo lol. other wise ppl wouldnt need to tell her to stop, literally no ones forcing her to do the torture, to shoot his leg then beat him with a club then her fists for god knows how long. if she wasnt enjoying that as she was doing it, she couldve stopped. like seriously try punching just a pillow for as long as she did, you would be soooo exhausted and tired, and if you werent enjoying it and wanting to do it more, you would immediately stop as soon as your arms are tired. but she just kept going.

Robban6948

Dear Simone and George, I would love to see either of you play the games on like Twitch or something. To me, the experiences were almost life-changing. I know that sounds dramatic, but I mean it! Also, your analysis were spot on. There were critics who thought Bella's performance during the conversation with the shrink were poorly acted. You saw what was really happening. I really appreciate that

Dani

pls remember Seth did call Ellie a slur LOL

fromage

I was going to say that you guys should play the game before the next season starts, but that would change the dynamic of the reactions too much. To be honest, I prefer seeing thoughts from people who aren't chained to their expectations from having played the game. Granted, they've already changed a lot from the original source so far, but that's what makes it interesting and stand on its own. Some won't be able to separate the two though, which have made the discussions over this season (not here specifically) so far...repetitive.

robodong

3 months ago. 3 months. in between which her father figured died, and she was hospitalized. she wasnt just sitting around on reddit seething at a slur. bigger shit has happened, like... dozens of people dead after a horde attack.

MrCAL

Great reaction as always however George, I honestly believe (for your own benefit) you need to just let the TV show inform you about certain characters and groups when it chooses to do so, rather than fixating and asking what the video game lore is, or what differing approach may or may not have been made. Wait until the show is done first. Not doing so invites spoilers unfortunately.

Dani

this reply was so hostile for no reason? I'm a lesbian so that slur affects me directly & from personal experience it would take a lot more than that for me to forgive someone for throwing it at me

Justtired

Season 1 episode 1 Tess - “this has been construction corner with Joel Miller”. I think I’ve watched this show WAY too much. 🤣😂

robodong

hostile? not meant as hostile but text doesnt convey tone and its the reader who injects tone sooo... i cant control how you decided to read that. but more importantly, your personal experience =/= show character experience. the show, the fictional character, nearly died and has a bunch of people around her die. but still fixating on a slur months prior from a guy who apologized, as hes helping her with her revenge, is just petty character writing imo, and its tiresome to have it come up again at a moment of "fuck yeah lets go against the councils wishes and get some revenge!" that, to me has nothing to do with ones sexual orientation. its to do with character writing for a piece of fiction.

Dani

i’m sorry you’re so angry, i hope you find peace

Vengeance

Exactly. And she wanted to continue even after Ellie got there. Owen had to grab her to get through to her in order to get her to finally end it. She enjoyed every second of it.

OddThomas (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-05 05:00 Abby was angry and vengeful in the game but (so far) TV show Abby is a bit more of a psycho frankly & I'm hoping they make her a more rounded character in the long term.
2025-05-16 17:22

D. T. Nelson
>>174233705

Actually, I find the TV portrayal of Abbie much more sympathetic than the game. You didn't get any of Abbie's pain until halfway through the game. With the show you see it in her eyes right from the start.

robodong

im sorry that you find differing opinions as anger. i hope you find maturity one day to accept people watch tv differently than you.

D. T. Nelson

Of course you are expected to sympathize more with Joel and Ellie at this point.... because, story. That's how stories work. In fact you MUST have a strong connection to Joel and Ellie and view Abbie with animosity for the story to take you where you need to go. BUT, you aren't supposed to sympathize with Pedro Pascal. I think a lot of the problems people might have is that so many have been rage quiting the show like people rage quit game two. At least those who quit the game it was because the character of Joel died (or later in the game because they learned they would have to play as Abbie). People are quitting the show because they think Pedro Pascal will no longer be in the show. But the show isn't about Pedro, and really (at this point at least) it isn't about Joel. I rage quit the second game, as well, but not because of Joel dying or having to play Abbie. That was fine. I was all in on the story. I quit because I'd spent three weeks trying to beat the biggest boss level and nothing I did seemed to make a dent in the big baddie (I still believe there was a glitch in the game mechanics).

Helly R

Jeffrey Wright also played Isaac in the game btw.

OddThomas (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-05 05:00 I think you should let go of all the game questions for now because you'll just tie yourself in knots about the possible differences. Take the show for what it is, then play the games after. Personally I think the games are still superior in every way.
2025-05-16 18:34

Jacob

I think that's just the nature of live reacting. If someone put a camera in my face of my playthrough of Tlou2, I would disagree with a ton of my in the moments feelings relative to my overall thoughts once I finished the game. And like you said, great reaction. That's the most important thing. For me, these first 4 episodes may have been my favorite reactions from this channel to date based on their discussions alone. I'm definitely disagreeing with some thoughts, but I wouldn't change a damn thing about the way they are reacting.

Jay Willis

If a jackass calls you a slur and shows themselves to be a bigot, you don't just go "well we all went through some traumatic shit, so i'm going to move past that and i'm just going to be nice to you because you agree with me on this issue right now." Unless told otherwise, Seth is still a bigot, he doesn't suddenly support Ellie's lifestyle, he just agrees with her quest for revenge. Should Ellie be civil with him? Sure. And she is (for the most part, she does make that comment about friendly fire). Should she be thankful he's offering support and materials? Sure, she shakes his hand. Should she just ignore and pretend the comment never happened? No. She doesn't owe Seth that, and it's not unrealistic to think she still has strong feelings about that and she should just ignore it or move past it because the town was attacked. If anything, Ellie is even more emotionally charged right now, in all facets. To think she'd be so consumed with rage towards Abbie that she'd forget being angry at Seth is a stretch. If anything, she'd be looking at Seth as someone to take her anger out on since she already dislikes him.

Jay Willis

Yea I think it's fair to criticize the writing and making Ellie a bit less focused and a bit more...casual? In the game she's hyper focused and the reaction to the pregnancy is not the same. Having said that, it's a different medium, and TV shows tend to try and interject some levity into these dark and depressing episodes. People might not want to hear it, but shows that are too dark don't get as big of an audience and following. You need some lightness as well, so to me that's probably why they changed it and made Ellie not quite as focused and dark. She's still determined, we'll still see that anger and rage and darkness come out, but in between that we'll see her having a wider range of emotions that we don't necessarily get as much in the game, mostly because the game is so much longer and you can fit in a lot more quips and things just exploring verses dedicating scenes to it.

RabidMango

Honest question Dani, how did you feel about Seth's apology? This is not an entrapping question. When he said "I shouldn't have even thought it" I thought it came across as a genuine apology. Not some social media apology to not lose followers. But I'm not gay and have never had to deal with that kinda shit. For the record I still think Seth sucks even after siding with Ellie's cause.

Urbanform

I have not played the game but my issue with the last two-three episodes is with the writing and the tone, especially with Ellie and her scenes. For the first two episodes, Ellie comes across as cocky and annoying, but we know the reason for her behavior, and it's mostly Ellie being Ellie. But after Joel gets murdered in front of her, and in such a gruesome way, I was expecting a shift in her behavior. Joel's death should have been a catalyst for a change in her personality and sadly it doesnt reflect in the show. The shift I was expecting was for her to have a more serious and mature tone, considering she is 19 and not 14 years old anymore. And later, the revenge plot takes a back seat, and Ellie and Dina's relationship becomes the focal point while the threat to their lives is high in an unknown location. And some of the scenes dont make sense, the sex scene was so out of left field. Like, who thinks of sex when someone tells you that they are pregnant? So, Joel's death and her revenge means very little at this point in time. The care and thoughtfulness that went into making the first one is missing this season. So far.

Henry Sanchez

You NEEEEEED to watch Instant Family. Isabella Merced is so good.

Urbanform

On your your opening remarks, Abby's father was going to assault and murder a 14 year old, doesnt matter if it was for a 'noble' cause. First of all asking consent from a 14 year old is not valid, even if the child says yes. And thats why in the real world we ask parents or a guardian, and in Ellie's case it was Joel. If, it was Abby instead of Ellie in that situation, her father would have been okay with that? I dont think so. Marlene played an evil role by putting Ellie, an orphan and a sheltered kid in that position. It was disgusting of Marlene to tell Ellie, that she had a 'greater' purpose without giving her the complete information which included her demise. And anyone who talks about the 'cure' is laughable. The logistics aside of making the cure in that rundown hospital with one doctor and atleast 20 year old equipment, the 'cure' itself would be useless, given the state of the world. The majority of the population is dead or infected, and the majority that survived in those twenty tears did compromised things and including children upto certain age. There are militias like WLF and scars, raiders, slavers and cannibals. So whom are they going to save? Most likey the cure itself would be used as a tool against people. The cure also doesnt solve the problem of the infected and only makes people immune, try fighting a bloater or a dozen infected with that immunity. In the first season during the drive to Kansas, Joel tells Ellie "she doesnt know the world" which is true. So, for her to sacrifice her life not knowing the world she was doing it for was unfair and unjust.

Matthew Blackwood

It makes me sad the show is ruining the game’s twists and turns for millions of people by giving them all the events but out of order and worse. Like, they’ll never have the impact of the mystery of where Abby came from and then getting gut-punched by it halfway through the game.

Matthew Blackwood

100% Odd Thomas (great name btw). Abby in the game is more stoic, so getting to know her grief is so much more meaningful. On the show she’s a monologuing villain, like a bad film school student trying to write a *bad guy with relatable motivation* instead of a person. But frankly I feel like everyone is so much chattier on the show. Like suddenly they’re in a Robert Kirkman comic and need to say everything they think and feel. And people defend it bc TV aNd GaMeS ArE DiFFerEnt. As if adaptations are all expected to get less cinematic and use LESS visual storytelling than games.

Dani

I appreciate you asking! I think it was honestly the best he could’ve done apology-wise, especially saying he shouldn’t have thought it. but at the end of the day that’s the best he can do in the short term. Ellie doesn’t have to like him or want to be around him, even if he had a really good apology. tangible growth away from hateful beliefs over time is really what i would want to see, but it doesn’t happen overnight or after an apology

D. T. Nelson

One of the things they have revealed—both through the scene with the first group of Saraphites that were slaughtered, and through the more culty Saraphite Issac was interrogating is that there are two different factions of the scars. The one faction that knows "the prophet" was a human being who imparted wisdom, and the more zealous faction who viewed the prophet as some sort of god and looks on the other group as "heretics". The WLF doesn't seem to differentiate between the two groups. It always surprised me how many people don't realize that Ellie's original bite isn't just covered with a tatoo, but the bite was disguised by a huge chemical burn (that Ellie did to herself) and that was then covered by the tatoo. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised since that isn't revealed until episode 204 in the show. That info is presented differently in the game. I suppose I realistically shouldn't expect non-game players to magically have that information.

Urbanform

The possiblity of a 'cure' by murdering a child to 'save' the world always reminds me of Stannis the Mannis burning his daughter at the stake to win the war and become the king of the Seven Kingdoms. And that goes so well for him!

Dylan Bollinger

Isabella Merced Is fantastic young actress you actually already watched her on the channel before in Alien Romulus

zak

To your opening comments about actually getting to play as Abby, I think the show is never going to accurately portray, or live up to, the game simply because the story was so reliant on literally putting you in these characters shoes and just seeing their side of the story, which tv can't do. Once it's finished I'd definitely recommend playing it for your self.

TechJJ

Wow. The controversial ending of the first game / first season really got under your skin! So much you are willing to even add adjective such as "assault". Also you carry so much hatred (beyond passion) that are you just keep posting your anger! I can only imagine you posting everywhere, 24/7!

TechJJ

ok, you do have a more logical point here. And yes, in the game's story Ellie/Dina "make out" scene was before Joel got killed, and the Dina's motivation to go with Ellie to Seattle is for Ellie and not Joel. Joel and Dina's relationship was undefined in the game. And yes, in the game Ellie's tone during Day One in Seattle was more serious, despite some lighter tone dialogs with Dina. For the show, Ellie's dead-on re-focus is in episode 5 after holding a guitar. I assumed you already watched episode 5. The second season has some shuffling, including the early reveal of Abby's intention, starting with the opening scene at Firefly burial. This is widely understood by those who played the game to tone down the intense reaction to Joel's killing, because of what happened to the game's leak and reveal. There was intense hatred and death threats to the voice and MoCap actor Laura Bailey AND face model Jocelyn Mettler. With priority on safety first, the flow of the story got adjusted. There are other adjustments with Tommy due to fans desire for S1E5 level of horde attacks, which also affected the order of travel to Seattle. At this point, I wouldn't say the writers lost the care and thoughtfulness. Actually, I think they were too caring and too thoughtful. You ought to listen to the "inside episode" featurettes and may be other interviews. I'll reserve my judgement until end of this season. Those not spoiled by game story should wait until end of the season 3 for final judgement. Unlike the first game / first season where the story keeps gripping you every episode, the second game story require some patience. Only when at the end, and several days or weeks after to digest, where most of the gamers agree the story itself it's a complete masterpiece, different from the first. Many even believe second is more of the masterpiece than first. I am one of those converted.

Joseph Schiller

Wasn't Isaac joining the WLF around the same time the profit dies? After the Isaac scene, where he joins the WLF it says eleven years later, meaning the prophet would have died 1 year later. Maybe the two have nothing to do with each other.

dys

Worth noting this takes places in an alternate history that had 20+ years' less progress in acceptance than our world before society collapsed, and this is Wyoming. Not an excuse for homophobic behavior, it was just as wrong in 2003 Wyoming as it is now, but the most charitable interpretation might be that Seth hadn't encountered anything to make him reevaluate those hateful views before.

dasgrove

Your anger at Abby is absolutely justified at this point in the story. I say try to ignore as much of the meta-commentary as you can. Enjoy the story, pain and all, as you experience. Analyze after. Just my thoughts.

BellaBlue

As for Isabel Merced... You did see her in Alien:Romulus. She was the pregnant character. I think I've requested before but she is also very good and I very much enjoyed Turtles All The Way Down (I'm a fan of the novel as well and Isabel did much justice to her character) Of note, she is also in the upcoming Superman movie as HawkGirl and she has at least a small role in the new peacemaker series (as she was in the trailer but she is listed far far down in the imdb actor listings for that)

BellaBlue

As a side note: I used to get very upset (as an avid reader) with adaptations of novels I love to film if things weren't exactly as I imagined. I learned to separate this as I've gotten older, as I was not allowing myself to enjoy the art and getting too caught up in my own feelings. Now, of course, you want the film or series to do justice to the source material, and that is all I kind of hope for nowadays. Even if there are changes, just do justice to the source. (Such as S 1-3 of GOT did justice to the source material despite some changes...4 and on..not so much...anger justified..haha). I also understand different perceptions of those things from myself and those who did not read the novels. The anger and uprising gets a bit ridiculous imo and I think those types of things hold w this adaptation as well.

DinChild

I think 2 things can be true at the same time: Abby, during the tutorial section, runs through the snow away from infected. That fence scene happened in the game, too. So it was important to have her running from infected. Then, Jackson hits the "fungus nerve" and brings everyone to them. (This wasn't in the game). The other thing I like to think is true; Abby brought the storm. Revenge ruins all things. And I feel like that poetic aspect is illustrated best with the ending shot...there's death behind, and death ahead...because what Abby represents at this time is wrath. But I'm also high right now. So...

Ashton Lewis

Well said. The writers do seem to have tried to be too careful with this season, which is a shame as like you, I believe the second game is a masterpiece in storytelling. I guess we will have to reserve full judgement until we've seen it all the way through to season 3 though

RabidMango

Thanks for the response Dani. I live in Long Beach, CA and LGBT+ are very present and respected here for the most part. At least in my experience. They're my family, friends, coworkers, employers, etc. I sometimes have to remind myself that's not always the case. Personally I think it's important and meaningful for him to make a genuine apology (the steak sandwich would've done it for me) even if that apology isn't accepted. She has the right to decide if and when she's going to forgive him.

gfixler

Anyone else in here gained an almost supernatural ability to pause one video exactly long enough to get it back in sync with another video, thanks to watching so much CB? I can feel exactly how much they're off when one cuts, and then the other does, to then click pause, and then play, exactly the right amount to sync them back up again, basically to the frame. I don't mean to brag. Lately I can even do this by the little bit of hair swaying differently in the strip of video above George and Simone. I'm like wait a minute... Click... Wait exactly 0.2834 seconds... Click. Perfect. Amazing. Where will I use this power next? It's definitely going on my resume.

Dani

i hadn’t considered the halting progress! that would totally lead to a more homophobic environment. maybe Seth should’ve went to Seattle to learn a thing or two

Cory Garron

Yes, I could do it long before CB too, when it was just audio podcasts.

Buhr

Yes George. Rendering would be gathering, trimming, cleaning, and purifying animal fat. It isn't terrible doing it for self use at home but rendering at the scale a town would need, and in a time with lower standards of cleanliness and no ac/refrigeration? It is gonna smell bad. I am sure someone else answered but yes Abby and the rest of the Salt Lake Crew did not go on orders from the WLF but they did have permission from the leader to go so they weren't AWOL. As for the Scars/Seraphites I assume they will get more into them either this season or the next as they are a big part of the story.

Cory Garron

Helly R, I just gotta know... do you remember the colour of your mother's eyes?

Urbanform

My thoughts are mostly reserved for Ellie's scene writing in the last three episodes inlcuding the fifth one. Since, she is now the sole main character, it becomes all the more important that they get her story arc right. The show caters to viewers beyond the fans of the game, so they have to be smart about how they adapt it. Which they did successfully with the first season but I think they are struggling with this one. And my thoughts are limited to the last three episodes.

Urbanform

It would be considered an assault to touch a stranger drugged out child. Hope you are aware of this. Dont know why people forget these basic morals but somehow consider Joel's actions wrong. And, its not hatered, its annoyance from mostly people who dont make reasonable and intelligent points, rather attack the person. I put forward several points as part of my arguement, you are free to share your points against mine and I will hear them out, instead of attacking me with so much passion.

Helly R

Why would you do this to me

Mark Polo

Yeeh I actually just now started playing the game. Don't know why I wanted so long, I played the first one when it came out an loved it but for some reason I never got around to the second hand until now. To my point: I absolutely think that Joel's death scene is so much better scripted in the game. Like we get to play as Abby leading up to it and they're also hiding what Abby and her team is even doing there from the player in the game. You load in and are like "aaah so this is another group of survivots we get to follow in this game and I guess their stories will converge down the line some place" - without actually telling us that they're there for Joel. In general I don't feel like S2 of tlou is very good.. like it had it's moments but I feel they've made Ellie too rebellious and straight up disrespectful and unlikable. Even though there's and element of that in the game, they've balanced her Personality so much better... So it's not all out "I am an angry Teen now!" I like Bella Ramsey's acting personally, despite all the memes..I think this is a directing issue rather than an acting one. Hopefully S3 isn't as cringe.

MeetMountain

Reading through the texts.. as just an observer. Asserting the tone of a text message is not only insulting to human conscience, but also bigoted. They told you over and over what their intentions were and you just chose to accuse them and accuse them. That’s how you come across. I’m a trans and it feels like you are putting words in peoples mouths and I just don’t like that. Take that for what you will.

MeetMountain

Y’all are both so unhinged I find it hilarious. Literally opposite spectrums of an argument that the middle could find solace in.

MeetMountain

Yea I know I’m late.. but the whole season she was just a petulant child and not a 19 year old adult who just has a father figure murdered in front of her.