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Star Trek TNG: 203-205 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-09-10 12:00:09
Edited:
2026-01-08 02:36:06
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

Episodes: Elementary Dear Data, The Outrageous Okona, Loud as a Whisper

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Comments

ChiefKC

Star Trek Day! I can't wait till you get to Season 3 and then DS9 and Voyager.

dudewheresmycar

To me, Elementary, Dear Data is the first truly memorable TNG episode. There's been a handful of really good episodes before, but nothing on the level of E3S2 before. It's here we start to see the potential of where TNG could go. ...and we're only a couple of weeks away from an episode that's considered one of the greats! 😉

JakeyShakeyBakeyBoy

G’day and happy Star Trek Day, legends. Been keen for “Elementary…” which is up there for my favourite Data episode! It really shows off how impeccable Brent Spiner is in this role. It’s in this guy’s top 5 favourite Data episodes, the best of which may or may not be fast approaching 🤭 Oh and Daniel Davis who played M in “Elementary…” is best known as Niles in “The Nanny” to us Aussies where he was hilarious. That series was huge back in the day down here

Dan

Yes, always be careful when vibe coding with AI! Wording is important with prompts. You could extinguish everyone you know, or worse, ruin a company!

WayneC

One problem I have with the Holodeck is that the space is clearly limited, but they create large environments and wander around them. Surely they must run into the walls?

lalaland

i think that can be explained away with video game logic. the environment is constantly constructed and deconstructed as you move and base on where you look, like a bubble. so if you just run in 1 direction constantly, then behind you it deconstructs/disappears and the horizon is constantly being created. and anything not in your line of sight, like behind a wall, does not exist.

Spacedone

At this point the writers room hadn't quite decided on a fixed lore of the holodeck was so we keep getting things happening that they later say (including in this very episode) is impossible, such as Data taking the picture of the Enterprise out of the holodeck when it should have disappeared immediately, or in earlier episodes Picard having lipstick on his face or Wesley getting soaked with water that shouldn't exist outside of the room.

WayneC

But if you walk/run in one direction, you will hit a wall. Unless you are always kept in the centre of the room. But that is problematic with multiple people in the environment moving in different directions.

Joe Concepts

The main problem with Pulaski is that in having her being kind of critical of Data, he is too much of an innocent character to properly defend himself. We already have come to love Data, and know that he is still kind of a child. So her issues with Data make it some like she's picking on someone who can't fight back. Seems like Pulaski was the producers' intent to make another McCoy, but when he and Spock argued, both were equipped to do so.

Matt O'Keefe

The comic in the 2nd episode was played by Joe Piscopo. He is an ok comedian who was on SNL for a few years in the 80's. He was also in a movie or two. All in all he is mid at best. He was on Snl at basically the same time as Eddie Murphy.

dudewheresmycar

...oh shit I forgot Teri Hatcher was in an episode.

Joe Concepts

Agh, I guess I said all that before I heard George said the same thing!

Joe Concepts

It makes sense. What fun would it be if you couldn't take a souvenir home from your holodeck adventure?

Mastervodo

Google says the episode is 2/9.

Mastervodo

Love Simone giving Jakey more Ssssspace... fuck! material! Zooooom!

Joe Concepts

The lore says that they do actually have treadmill floors! But yes, that wouldn't work for multiple people going far away. But maybe that rule is just built in. Your party can't wander too far from each other. I figure they could apply video game logic. Even in an open world game, you hit barriers eventually.

Thall

I always figured the issue with the Holodeck generating Moriarty wasn't the phrasing as such, it's just that the subject was Data. Any human would be defeated by the computer without using nearly as many ressources, but Data is the biggest challenge to a computer, seeing as he is basically a super computer. That said, why the Holodeck doesn't have a fuse you can pull is beyond me, lol. Just unplug the damn thing. What I don't agree with is the assumption that every violent race is depicted as ugly. Because that would also mean that only pretty races are peaceful, which has been proven false in this season and last. And one thing that has to be stressed: Ugly is YOUR perception. They might've been considered beautiful by many other species. So it makes no sense to assume that ivolent species are always depicted as bestial, you just think them beastial becuase that is your viewpoint.

iFixSAN

A wild Teri Hatcher appears!

funky weapon

Regarding Riva: He starts off a dick and arrogant because that's the point. Riva has had so much success and has been doing so well in diplomacy that he's let himself become arrogant. He's become so reliant on the Chorus and how he communicates through them that he falls into despair not just because he lost his friends, but because without them, he can't fulfill his purpose as a peacemaker. It's like losing your homies and your entire identity all in one moment. Because of that I think his initial reaction is rather justified. Troi is great though. She helps Riva recenter himself and figure out another way to be effective. The whole episode is about Riva getting too high an opinion of himself and then getting humbled by [God/the Universe/whatever]. With newfound humility he'll meet the challenge of teaching these warring tribes sign language. Also, the Moriarty AI is probably the first time I remember as a child contemplating whether it's flesh that makes us human or our spirit/consciousness. Between that and the Batman TAS episode with the robot Batman, it gave my tiny brain a lot to chew on.

The Real Andrew Kim

Regarding why Holodeck safety protocols exist, I always thought since you are dealing with real matter with substance as Picard pointed out, there will always be an element of danger, and I feel there are probably certain scenarios where you have to interact with real matter in order to perform experiments or any other possible scenario, for example a campfire, if you want to make real smores in the holodeck, the fire would have to be real in which case the safeties would be off.

David N

I have always thought of the holodeck safety procedures as less of a 'this image can kill you' toggle and more of a system that is in place to limit any amount of energy or force that can occur within the holodeck. The default state of all this energy is probably lethal unless its restricted in some way so if that system is damaged/disabled the holodeck would become dangerous. I think this is much more likely than starfleet programing a kill mode into their entertainment product.

SbE

I have a feeling she might remember a certain episode coming in a few weeks, it's quite unBorgettable

Ian Tellam

A couple of subjective disagreements regarding the last episode. Firstly I disagree they shouldn't have taken Worf to the planet because he felt weird about it. He's a professional. Worf believed it wouldn't affect his performance on the mission and, knowing Worf, he probably would have said if he thought it would. To swap him out then would show a huge lack of confidence in one of your officers which would have probably been devastating to him. I think it would have been poor leadership to do so. As it happened it was fine. Also I while I agree Riva isn't super likeable I think there are a couple of things here which I disagree with. Firstly, as George has complained of before, to presume the particular nature of the relationship between Riva and his chorus is a bit of TOS style of imposing modern human ethics on an alien culture. They could well have loved being in Riva's chorus and seen it as a huge honour. They don't ever suggest otherwise. Also I think it's a bit unfair to say Riva was making it all about him after they died, even though he is deliberately presented as arrogant in the first half of the episode. He himself WAS the one grieving, so it was indeed somewhat about him - and I just think judging someone who is grieving for the loss of their friends just hours after they have died is a bit harsh - especially after he was clearly blaming himself for their deaths and expressed how bad he felt about that.

Joe Concepts

Definitely one of the long list of people who were great on SNL, but that never really crossed over beyond the sketch comedy. He was however in the tragically underrated movie "Johnny Dangerously" which I don't think I've ever seen anyone react to.

DonkyDave

I'd like to fill George with crumpets.

DonkyDave

I'd really forgotten how horny this show is

GAB

An interesting thing about teaching the Solaris sign language is that it might result in enabling them to see their world and each other in different terms because of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. The strong form of the hypothesis states that language determines thought and also that linguistic categorisation limits and restricts cognitive categorisation. While this view has fallen out of acceptance by contemporary linguists, research has produced evidence of a weaker version, where the structure of language influences perceptions, without strictly limiting or obstructing them. The hypothesis was a foundation of Ted Chiang's short story "Story of Your Life" that was adapted into the 2015 movie "The Arrival".

JayF

The writer's obsession with the holodeck was what ultimately killed the show for me. You have almost complete freedom to write your stories because they take place in undiscovered areas of space yet over 20 episodes of the series have portions dedicated to this tech on the ship that lets the crew play make believe. Ugh. You can almost hear a writer speaking in Stuart Smalley voice as he has his daily affirmation, "I know our mission is to explore outer space but sometimes we just need to spend time in our inner space." I will say that the difference I most enjoyed between TOS and TNG is that of Spock and Data who were both very much of their time. Meaning the time they were written in the real world. I'll not say more though as I want George to experience it on his own.

Fedora The Explorar

For me, Elementary Dear Data is the first truly *good* episode of the series and where the show actually found its first stepping. Excited to follow you on this journey here forward.

Fedora The Explorar

I was never afraid of Trek dating itself, I think all the holodeck episodes do good at just not taking itself seriously as a show every while and again. But Elementary Dear Data is also not a fluff episode I love what it does with Moriarty.

Dan

Trivia: Daniel Davis (Moriarty) was also the captain the of the USS Enterprise... ... in 'The Hunt for Red October'.

SbE

Crumpet fillings for everyone!

Fedora The Explorar

Also yes you are so right, Data is amazing representation for neurodivergent people and connected with a lot of people in that community

Vlasios Vougiouklis

I get that people identify with different things and all that, but i seem to take the material on its own right, so that when they tell me this is a robot, i assume he is a robot, not autistic. Any reading into it from my part seems always to come second. Data is a robot in a scifi show exploring the idea of digital, excuse me positronic life, he is closer to chatgtp than he is to person, at least to everyone who hasn't met him; that's how the new doc describes him.

Bandaloop

The outrageous Okona was attracted to the beauty of Teri Hatcher in an uncredited role as Transporter Chief.

MacGuffinStuff

This was a fun Star Trek Day. Yesterday I saw on IG that Jack Quaid posted a picture of himself doing the 🖖 and saying "HAPPY STAR TREK DAY!" and I was like, is this really a thing? I thought Cinebinge just made it up, but it was posted Monday so... Edit: September 8th is recognized as Star Trek Day because it commemorates the premier of Star Trek the Motion Picture. I did not know until just now, that is fucking awesome! But wouldn't that be cool, why don't we just all make Wednesday, Star Trek Day, that or you guys switch to Mondays and it would the best part of everyone's Monday, galaxy wide... But what a lot of fun, love that this show, the people that are the show that is, understood not to take themselves too seriously all the time, and that makes the more serious episodes even more impactful to me. I guess what I mean is even here in season 2 we're seeing the show grow into itself and I'm loving this. But of course they're not just fun for the sake of fun, these are about Data specifically and his journey of learning what it is to be fully conscious will always be one of the essential elements of what makes TNG so great. And I say that as someone not just on the Spectrum, I'm riding it. And I love the addition of Guinan, I love Whoopi Goldberg's earliest work especially and that she was a Trekie tracks and I love that too. That's kind of why I went on a bit of rant last night about the Color Purple, I did rewatch it and she is absolutely phenomenal in it, and it was her first real role, and Oprah, I'm not a huge Oprah fan, her show, but she was a fuckin force in that movie, sorry I'm digressing again, but I would love to have seen her in a scene with Meryl Streep, I don't know the context but just those two in frame together, it would be better than Marvel meets DC. And holy shit that IS Teri Hatcher! I kept looking at her side view profile and, is that Teri Hatcher? Then she spoke and knew, wow she was striking. And it reminded me of Michael in The Office, "I share a birthday with Eva Longoria, which will be a great ice breaker if I ever meet Teri Hatcher." (Desperate Houswives, I admit I watched a few episodes, wasn't into it, watched it a few more times just because of Teri Hatcher and Eva Longoria, sorry not sorry).

Korpse

A man apart (Vin Diesel) 🔥🙌

MacGuffinStuff

Oh shit I forgot, now you're watching Stranger Things, loving that, but now you're back to 3 episodes. BONUS But for a second I saw the counter still had like 50 minutes and I thought you were going to do your longest outro ever lol, but I was fully invested in your contemplations about Data!

Glenner7

George, Have you figured out the stardates in TNG yet?

MacGuffinStuff

I'm okay at timing the "SPACE" visually but I realized I'm actually more accurately on time if I listen. Also I'm working on my Patrick Stewart impression, it's coming along, and it's true what, I can't remember his name he's great at impressions, Jimpressions on IG, but it's true, when you try to do SIR Patrick Stewart, your posture improves.

Simone's Coconut Squire

My trying to interpret the deaf ambassador like Deana "uh... jazz hands, jazz hands, sparkle fingers, jazz hands?"

Angzarr

Maugson. Worf Maugson.

Angzarr

Oh man, I would LOVE to see G&S react to the Granada TV versions of the Sherlock Holmes stories with Jeremy Brett. There have been so many adaptations over the years, but those are the best by far, and the most faithful. Absolutely superb.

MacGuffinStuff

Hey man, weirdos make the world go round, in a weird way... We collectively metaphorically are the meteor strike that tilted the Earth and made Autumn a thing. You're welcome. Happy Star Trek Day love all yalls

gfixler

And the girl with the baby in the Okana episode was Wendy Smith on SeaQuest DSV. I knew I knew her from somewhere. I thought she might be Nicole de Boer. I also said "is that Teri Hatcher?", but thought I was wrong 😆

DanTurismo

Apparently he lost out on the role because Gene Roddenberry said, “I wouldn’t follow that guy into battle.”

gfixler

Okona means family.

Andrew

Disagree with George saying that Riva's interprets were slaves. Riva is working on a job so his interpreters would be there whenever they are needed. When he is not working I assume they go back and live their own lives. It's a job for them. Riva has the ability to communicate without them. He signs and read lips so in his every day life outside of work they would not be needed. Once Data learned sign language we saw that he could communicate just fine without them. .

sarCC

Billy Campbell! I figured Simone might've known him from Once & Again, a really great drama series from the late 90s, early 2000s. It also stars Evan Rachel Wood and Julia Whelan (who is now one of the most prolific audiobook narrators). The show was definitely in the Gilmore Girls pocket, really well-done.

Robert Cooper

I never noticed: Holmes's violin has a plastic chin guard on it. A violin of the time wouldn't have that. Also, the paper should have been removable.

Jpsynergy

I agree that Data must be protected at all costs. Geordi being 100% on his side and wanting to prove the Doctor wrong was very sweet. Love those two.

PJ P

I like how in The Outrageous Okona we don't need to know why Okona is so honourable, or why the two factions are so entrenched in their viewpoints. It's a given that Okona is just that kind of guy, that a royal pregnancy demands marriage, and that the gem is a central piece of a ruling family. Most of it you pick it up as it goes, there is no drag in the pace with unnecessary exposition.

PJ P

I think holodeck episodes are fine as they can ask bigger questions without needing to constantly create new cultures and new aliens like TOS did. The main issue with them was how the writers kept breaking the rules for them - like Moriarty's drawing existing outside the holodeck.

fforw

Billy Campbell, the actor of Okona was also considered for the role of Riker, but then only got this small role instead.

Jenny MacRunnel

As soon as I saw him, I'm like Rick! I LOVED Once & Again, I was so sad when they took it off air. And that the third season DVD was never released. I have seasons 1 & 2!

Angzarr

So... If Riva hooked up with Troi, do you think libido translator guy stayed in the room to do the moaning and such? Dirty talk?

WastedPo

I like the idea behind "Loud As a Whisper." Or at least I think I do. I'm sure it's trying to say something about differently abled people. ... The problem I have with it is that it's also trying to make the viewer genuinely think that Riva is this enlightened saint we should be in awe of, who is also handsome and sexy. But frankly, he comes across as creepy, closer to a cult leader; and the episode doesn't seem to be aware of it. Like, when he's trying to seduce Troi, I think we're supposed to find him charming. Edit: I guess I'm just agreeing with George and Simone.

Cartoons ReAct

Soo it seems Simone hasn't seen The Nanny, another show we need to have reactions to 😁

John

I was hoping somebody noticed her!

punterjoe

Poor Diana Muldaur. She didn't get gates McFadden sacked. She just filled the vacant slot. (Blame Maurice Hurley - more TNG backstage drama). I hope you earn up to what she bright to the role for it's run. I only wish the TNG folks had the balls to give the send-off she got on LA Law. If your not familiar with it, find the clip. It will be with it.

Lintrinsic

In my head cannon, that was Pulaski's ultimate fate on Trek too. They just never mentioned it.

Lintrinsic

The issue is, they don't appear to have a career choice. Their ancestors served the royal family as telepathic translators for generations and it's vague whether this role is voluntary or compelled. Does each family have to hand over a child for telepathic training with each generation or new member of the royal line? How much choice do they get? Can they leave if they want? It's one of many ideas from the TNG writers room that they clearly think is cute and a good idea until you really think about the ramifications.

Lintrinsic

IIRC they vaguely explain that in later Trek. Some items on the holodeck like food, water, snow, anything the plot needs them to take outside or would be difficult for the production to make vanish are presumably replicated matter rather than holographic.

Michael Kemmet

Simone commented that one of the ships in Outragous Okona looked really good. That's because it was created for a ST movie. It's the ship that Klingon Doc Brown blows up at the beginning of Search for Spock.

Marcus Hicks

Okona is Han Solo if you ordered him on Temu or Wish.com 😆

Maxi

I am so sad. After watching the entire first season on the website without my own copy, I decided that I wanted to do TNG justice and watch it on a CRT and it looks gorgeous, but unfortunately Paramount+ seems to have changed the editing of the episodes since Cinebinge did their recordings and now it's out of sync...

This Justin

The concern is that the holodeck computer was asked to create someone capable of defeating Data. To do that, it may have needed to create someone capable of bypassing the holodeck’s safety systems. If all the safety features are controlled by the same computer, then even strong safeguards could still be overridden.