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Star Trek TNG: 209-211 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-09-24 12:00:07
Edited:
2026-01-08 02:36:10
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

episodes: the measure of a man, the dauphin, contagion

Go to this site: Cinebingers.ca for the unedited versions of all our content.

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Comments

dudewheresmycar

Measure of a Man? All time classic episode, and the first TNG episode to air that made everyone back then think TNG might actually be a damn good show!

Doug

Damn I'm excited for this one, I thought Measure of a Man came later in the season

JakeyShakeyBakeyBoy

Will just say “Measure of a Man” is a top 5 TNG episode for this dude. Outstandingly written and the final scene with Data telling Riker how he won’t forget the nobility of the latter’s actions is still one of my favourite quotes from any show. Seth Macfarlane even nabbed the conundrum posed in this episode for the plot of “Ted 2” which worked well there too

Michael Bauer

This is it ... "The Measure of a Man" - the first episode that cements TNG as my favorite show ever. The first episode that really encapsulates all the things I love most about it - and why it played such a big role in encouring my growing interest in philosophy, science, and technology as a kid. My parents always supported and encouraged me, but didn't share my deep fascination with these things (and why would they?). A few great teachers shared and encouraged some of those interests - but I think I can honestly say that Star Trek was perhaps the one presence in my life that most consistently and directly encouraged all of those things, both in terms of intellectual curiosity, but also in terms of the humanistic values of openness, equality, diversity and rationality. I am so very happy you are both reacting to this ❤️

DonkyDave

Genuinely can’t wait to finish work to watch Measure of a Man with you

Mastervodo

One of the best Star Trek TNG episodes! And what's up with the new smol kitteh on Simone's lap? Is this the introduction of a new Cinebinger?

Spacedone

As Simone said, Measure of a Man is the reason why they had Polaski being such a dick to Data, to establish the idea that there were people who didn't see Data as anything other than a computer on legs.

WayneC

Data went to the acadmey. He would have come out as an ensign, but is now a Lieutenant Commander - so he must have been in service for many years.

Ramvolter

Data is "it". Even though Data has a "personality" it is not a He.

Jaaahn

talk about completely missing the point of the episode. literally zero percent of the episode is about his sex, chromosome or biology. its just about being respectful and respecting the individuality of a sentient, conscious and feeling being you pointlessly pedantic contrarian.

Kane Is Able
>>188211641

Are you kidding? I kept checking episode guides and counting down to when we'd get to it. I wasn't going to wait to be surprised.

Kane Is Able (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-05 05:00 " Your Honour, Starfleet was founded to seek out new life. Well, there it sits." And, by Patrick Stewart's own admission, he is still technically phoning it in at this point, I believe.
2025-09-24 13:17

Christina Doxstader

Measure of a Man still gives me goosebumps after all these years. Such an amazing episode. The scene where Riiker accesses Data's schematics and he smiles and laughs a bit and then becomes sorrowful is so well done. It really sums up Will's whole character. He wants to win but he knows what's right.

Steve Arnold

With „Darmok“ and „The Drumhead“ this is one of my most favourite episodes. What‘s that little LEGO set on Simone‘s printer?

Dan

I think Star Trek: TNG does a great job of being consistent on the idea that one's gender is a social construct (and as I reflect on it now, Star Trek does a better job of explaining "why" than most modern lessons on the matter). Data is a "he" because he chooses to be. He presents himself with the intention of registering as such, by way of his grooming and attire (e.g. he doesn't dress like Diana). And without getting too far into spoilers, TNG holds the same position when the transgender issue is brought up with the symbiont that one of the main cast has a relationship with. We can call Data "it" for the mere fact that he cannot choose how other people refer to him. But, in the same way that data (dahta) is information and "Data" is his name, it would also be disrespectful to refer to him as "it" if that isn't how he wants to be referred to.

Dan

Fuck, could have fooled me. There were a lot of great performances here, and a great undertone brought by Whoopi Goldberg. I hope Sir Patrick Stewart changed his mind in the wake of the reception of this episode, when he saw how it affected people.

Joshua M Freeman

There had been some good episodes before, but "The Measure of a Man" is TNG's first GREAT episode.

Dan

Measure of a Man made me tear up yet again. I love so many lines, so many deliveries. Great performance by Guinan/Goldberg to show the role she plays. Troi may be the empath, but Guinan has the wisdom people sometimes need. Especially when they're so overwhelmed that they just need a drink. I think it was a great character moment when she reverse psychologied Picard into seeing the truth and how he gripped it despite her sarcastic denial. I feel a lesser show would have just had her give him the answer before he runs off saying, "Thanks!" This is soooooo much better and more impactful. Instead she says, "I think that's a little harsh" and you see the lethal resolve in his eyes. Initially, he tried to support Starfleet by encouraging Data to submit to the procedure, but he was immediately embarrassed when the android showed him the flaw in his thinking. He's human and not impervious to mistakes. But he saw the error, changed his mind, and fought for his crew. THIS is why he's the captain.

Bombaatu

OMG, that is an *adorable* little murder-floof Simone is playing with!!!

Allan

"Who wrote this?" Ooh, I actually know this one without having to look it up. "The Measure of a Man" was written by Melinda Snodgrass. A very accomplished sci-fi TV writer and novelist, including as a collaborator with George R.R. Martin on their Wild Cards book series.

Robert Cooper

I'm a sucker for courtroom drama. TNG has two great ones. DS9 one. SNW one. "Measure of a Man" is definitely a high water mark in the first two seasons. Also, yes, the turbo lifts are omnidirectional. 211 also starts a long running pattern: anythime Riker is in command for more than a few minutes, the ship gets trashed.

Michael Bauer

Simone sitting there through the second half of Measure of a Man with tears in her eyes... right there with you, Simone. 😁

Dan

Oh, forgot to mention: George was surprised that anyone in Starfleet would even question Data's sentience, given how socially evolved and scientific they're supposed to be. But, Picard made a mistake early on, too. I think it's taken as a given that the cost of freedom is constant vigilance, because we are all susceptible to errors of judgement that might affect the liberties of others. Rights and freedoms are not guaranteed and must be continually defended against those who would seek to undermine them.

Raven Dark

Data was my favorite Star Trek character (closely tied with Spock) from minute one, but Measure Of A Man, and to a lesser degree, Contagion, made me love him even more. MOAM is not my absolute favorite episode, but only because there are ones upcoming that are just that much better. Still, it's high on the list.

GAB

...and we humans are all merely ugly bags of mostly water.

fforw

For me, "The Measure of A Man" is the beginning of true TNG greatness. The depth and gravitas Picard brings to these philosophical issues is hardly ever reached anywhere else in Star Trek. It's the beginning of why "What would Picard do?" is not only a joke.

John Rose

Terrible studder on this video, I even downloaded to be sure it was not my connection

John Rose

Let me add I'm talking about the no sync version

Cinebinge

hi John, could you tell me more what do you see or mean by studder in the video? we're not seeing it on our side nor are we getting any other reports of it.

JakeyShakeyBakeyBoy

Those are awesome too. The set is the Tribute to Jane Austen dude

GAB

An extended cut of "The Measure of a Man" with 13 minutes of additional footage was released in HD format in 2012. The writer of the episode was Melinda M Snodgrass and this was the first TV episode that she wrote.

REDR58

The space station model is a reuse of the Regula I Space Station from “The Wrath of Khan” and “The Child” before it. It will be used a number of times in Star Trek overall. I would have really liked to have seen Pulaski, considering her early aloofness towards Data, vouch for or be a character witness for Data. I think it would have added a nice bit of, as George likes to see, *character growth*. But, the episode is not about her. I have no idea if this sort of idea was ever even considered by the show producers. My grandmother was the same way as Data with wrapping paper. How does Ryker know that the purpose of Soong’s work is to “serve” humanity? I think that’s speculation! The Enterprise looks like it is barely hanging on at some funny angle as it’s docked to the space station, canted to its right (starboard) side. If I were to guess I’d say somehow the model wasn’t attached properly to the space station or more likely, when they overlaid the element of the Enterprise on the space station it did not line up correctly. Who knows? Edit: of course George just addressed my point about Pulaski! Well done.

John Rose

I'm sure it's audio and video but it's only really noticeable in the audio every 2 to 3 seconds it's a very slight glitch but it is annoying I tried both players and downloaded the mp4 and played it on my own computer and I'm still getting it it's much more noticeable at the beginning it seems like then in the middle which is where I'm at now. If I were to guess it seems like something to do with frame rate differences between your video and the shows 23.976 fps

Joe Concepts

Measure of a Man is a great one, of course. But the fact that Data's own friend has to basically be the prosecutor, right now, without delay or they will rule against him is the one weird part of it. Sure, it adds another element and also makes sure that the main characters are involved. But because they're not fully staffed yet, Data doesn't get a fair hearing? What's your hurry?

John Rose

I've noticed your frame rate is a rather odd 46.875, which appears to be trying to double the frame rate of the show but that's not quite correct dividing that only comes up with 23.437, which doesn't quite make it up to the frame rate of the actual show maybe whatever using to edit is compensating by dropping frames from the show

REDR58
>>188228911

Yeah I’d love to see one of those YouTube legal reaction channels about this. That thing about Riker being forced to prosecute seems dubious at best especially considering that there is no indication any of the Enterprise’s bridge crew are lawyers.

Alec Zrike

Ah, Contagion... where the solution to the problem is turning the Enterprise off and then on again. :)

Cinebinge

hi John, just checked the actual file itself we exported and uploaded, the video is set to 30 fps same with the recorded footage and the episode footage, everything is at 30fps as with all our content. i am not sure why its appearing otherwise on your end, but looking at the comments no one else seems to be getting any studders either. could you tell me what browser and device you are using? and if your browser has any extensions that could impact video playback?

gfixler

This show keeps setting off my Echo Dot. I changed its wake word to "Computer" years ago. Wesley: "Computer, Thalian chocolate mousse," and the Dot starts rambling to herself in the other room.

gfixler

Wesley: "Computer, Rousseau 5." my dot: [rambling noises from the other room]

Chase Lonnergan

There isn't a "France" in the Star Trek Universe. Just cities with French names. All distinct and individual human cultures are gone. Replaced by a bland, homogenous, boring, lock-step, godawful "They're all made out of ticky-tacky, and they all look just the same" Federation Culture. No French culture, no American culture, no Brazilian culture, no Spanish, Dutch, Nigerian, Chinese, Indian, Polynesian, or Arabic cultures. Just a flavorless mush of passionless near-automatons, philosophically choking on the dick of Vulcan society.

John Rose

No problem I only tested on my desktop will try my phone, who knows thanks for looking into it, nice to interact with you its like talking to a celebrity...lol

John Rose

I can add that I checked on my phone and it's perfectly fine I don't know why it's happening on my desktop going to try other desktops in my house it's a very odd issue thank you for looking into it.

John Rose

Sorry one last reply, just for completeness I rebooted my PC and instantly everything's working great The oddest thing is that when I check the frame rate of the video that I downloaded it now says 30. My guess is I had some issue with my video card causing some problem with the codec or hardware acceleration.

Vindachi

The season one episode you are thinking about was called the last outpost. That was the tkon empire

Robert Gendron

While most people think Pulaski's treatment of Data was put in to replicate the friendversarial relationship of Bones and Spock, I think she was put in to remind the audience that almost all of Starfleet viewed him as a machine. Even Riker in the first episode had that assumption. So when you get to "Measure of a Man", it's the default position of Starfleet. Though note that Pulaski didn't put Data down in the poker game and went to his farewell get-together, showing that she has had some character growth in how she views him. It's why I will always defend that character's introduction this season.

gfixler

The reason she transformed into a hot woman for one scene was someone on TNG wanted to work with Mädchen Amick, who went on to play Shelly on Twin Peaks soon after.

Mike Adams

Things I'd never thought I'd hear #3147: "So the old lady is the hot young woman who is the weird ugly teddy bear monster."

DasBigUn

I believe someone has. I think Legal Eagle has

Vindachi

That's not really true. While country borders no longer separate people politically, there are still different cultures, languages and traditions. There are many different references to this throughout the entire run of shows and movies. Some they have seen up to where they are at in their viewing and many after this to come. They still refer to areas as the traditional country name with some exceptions. They don't say the United States really, they just refer to the city/state itself. They also would probably not say United Kingdom etc. It's just more localized to a specific area

Steve Arnold

Thanks man! 👍🏻 Now We just have to find out the name of Simone‘s new cute little kitten! 🤷🏻‍♂️

A Red Mage Named Blue

if George thought Anya was smug and condescending, DS9 will be very interesting to watch

Ea-nāṣir, the worst copper merchant in history!

I haven't read through all comments here, so this might have been said already. The Measure of a Man is a yardstick episode, showing us how excellent TNG can be. Even so though, I have to disagree with the premise. Data has been stated as enrolled into Starfleet. He wasn't conscripted, sold, made by them or anything else. It's even stated here that Maddox was on the panel allowing Data into Starfleet (even though he was the odd vote). So, either Data is his own person, and rights to chose as a member of Starfleet, or he does not, which would effectually invalidate his enrolment, and ownership revert back to his father, Dr. Noonian Soong. So either way you shake it, Maddox loses this. There are no paths where Maddox can get control of Data, except through Dr. Soong, and that poses its own problems.

Juanjomaster ! (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-05 05:00 Brother, you don't need to say everything that comes to your mind.
2025-09-24 17:19

Thall

Just for the first episode: Considering doesn't mean condoning!

Thall

Sure he does, thats his job

DonkyDave

The Measure of a Man really illustrates how they nailed it with casting Patrick Stewart as Picard, the way he was delivering his lines was just incredible

JD Nevesytrof

Congratulations, George. You finally met Jean-Luc Picard as we know and love him.

Gryff

1:09 George. I can show you a movie on YouTube that features the, ahem, Captain's Log. If you want to see it.

Pearl Jam

Aaaayy! We finally got “Tea, Earl Gray, hot”!

Dan

IIRC, Soong is dead by this time (no spoilers)

PG Modehouse

Brian Brophy, who played Commander Bruce Maddox, was my Theater professor in college.

REDR58 (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-05 05:00 The Dauphin I think space travel as we see in TNG is *far* more likely than a United Earth government ever happening. George, the ugly sweaters were replaced by the hideous gray thing he’s been wearing. Not nearly enough Mädchen Amick in this episode. Thus: watch Twin Peaks. Wesley dropping things in engineering is exactly why you don’t have a young teenager serving on a starship. I’m sorry but nothing will convince me it’s a good idea to have a teenager with no real formal training serving on a starship. I don’t care how bright he is. It’s nonsense. The scene between a Riker and Guinan is *gold*! The actor playing Salia, Jaime Hubbard, only acted in 1 short film and 5 shows, the last in 1995 and now practices psychotherapy. She is also 9 years older than Wil Wheaton. She was about 26 here and Wheaton was about 17. I really like how Pulaski stayed in front of her patient when Anya rushed at her. She could’ve run away, but she stood her ground. There are some good character moments in this episode, but it is generally unremarkable. I don’t particularly like or dislike the Wesley character. I just think he’s implausible. I still can’t take it seriously that they have a 17-year-old with his non-attending the formal Academy running around on the bridge of a starship and working in its engineering plant. It’s not a thing with him being a “Gary Stu” for me (a term, like ”Mary Sue” I find annoying), I just dislike that Wesley is here at all on the ship in this capacity right now.
2025-09-24 19:21

Pearl Jam

Something that surprised me about The Measure of a Man is what was never brought up: Starfleet didn’t build Data, nor did they purchase him. He joined Starfleet of his own volition, and they accepted him as a member. That alone should have guaranteed him all the rights and privileges of any other officer. The real question was never whether he was property, but how Starfleet would honor the choice he made to serve.

Onikaze

when the governess changed to the younger woman, was that Madchen Amik?

Opti_Frog

I was gonna say: George is happy to see Mädchen Amick. Watch Twin Peaks! 😃

Andrew

I had to rewind a couple of times because I was distracted by the cuteness of Simone's kitten. 😍

Life in the cave of Garanoga

Absolutely love Measure of a Man. I couldn't wait for you guys to get there. As for how the world is in the Star trek universe (The short version lol) "Borders" and nations still exist, but keep in mind that the world went through multiple wars and collapses before we get to the original series and the Star Trek world. Eugenics wars, water wars, and so on. There are some great videos on the overall topic. But in short the society still values "Personal property" but no longer values "Private property" the example being Picard's family property. Because it holds sentimental value it's not viewed as an issue that the family just retains ownership of it. Plus they make great wine for everyone to drink for free lol. Great video once again. Keep up the good work.

MaikeruNeko

A minor fun detail. One of the alien scenes visible through the Iconian portal in 'Contagion' is Nathan Phillips Square and Toronto City Hall. I was hoping George and/or Simone might recognize it, but I guess not.

REDR58

Contagion Interesting that the Enterprise and Yamato are nose to nose here when in reality, the real aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (of WW2) and the IJN Yamato Battleship (for which these fictional vessels are named after) never came in sight of each other, nor did they ever engage in combat (including Enterprise’s torpedo bombers). There have only been naval 3 vessels named “Yamato” with the most famous being the WW2 Imperial Japanese Navy Battleship which was sunk in 1944. The wreck of the Yamato still exists, but the WW2 Enterprise was unfortunately scrapped in 1960 because funds to preserve her could not be raised. George in the face that you see in the back of the “neck” (between the engineering hull and the saucer) the two rectangles “eyes” are the secondary shuttle bays. The glowing reddish-orange structure is the impulse engine for the ship when both components are linked together, however the saucer section has its own impulse engines to either side, long rectangular structures, outboard of the “neck” at the extreme edges of the saucer. George, the turbo lift cars need to be able to go sideways and up and down because they have to travel through the neck of the ship which does not allow for a direct up-and-down path. You have to go sideways at some point to go from the bridge all the way down to engineering. You can see the lights in the turbo lift car “window” moving side to side or up and down, depending on what the turbo of car is doing. The Iconians must have had incredible technological advancements and fantastically superior materials science to have devices still existing, nevermind running, after 200,000 years with no maintenance. Assuming the planet is still geologically active I doubt very much anything on the surface, nevermind underground, would still be intact after all that time. The erosion from wind alone would eventually knock over that little structure on the surface. The oldest human building on earth is *only* about 12,000 years old.

Mastervodo

I DM'ed Simone and she said the murder floof's name is Michael!

Dan

The legal episodes in Federation/Starfleet "courtrooms" always seem strange to me. I know why they do it (for the tension, stakes, etc) but they always end up portraying their legal system as rather brutal/backward. Quick judgments with apparently no appeals (nor even much preparation) and severe consequences, for questions that are clearly not really that urgent. It doesn't really fit with the general utopian image of the Federation.

Mastervodo

You have "Give us the ring my Precious" eyes.

Polecat21

Finders keepers?

David N

I can't get enough of simone blocking out everything for a few seconds to get the timing of 'space' right. Never fails to make me laugh.

StonyD

The Jean-Luc Picard that fandom knows and loves is finally here! George, welcome to Star Trek: The Next Generation.

PG Modehouse

At first the Governess was basically a stock character. A stern matron who won't stand for any hanky nor panky, and would like you to see to it that you develop better table manners, thank you very much.

Jimazoid

To answer George's Question from The Contagion, Yes the turbolifts are omni-directional. You can tell from the lights on the middle of the lift, it sometimes goes up and down, or side to side.

Jomero

George: Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet. But since you're watching the high-res version of the show, pay close attention to the text output on the computer displays. Sometimes, not always, the effects folks would sneak in funny or very off-topic text output. Because at the time, it was being recorded to be output to 480i CRT displays at home. And they knew the text was going to be too blurry for anyone at home to read, so they would have fun with it sometimes. It's much easier to read in these remasters. As for Measure of a Man, it's easily the highlight of Season 2. Easily a top 10 or even top 5 of the entire series. When fans talk about how good TNG was, it's episodes like that on many of their minds.

Jpsynergy

The Measure of a Man is one the best in my opinion. Glad you guys enjoyed it so much.

Pendergasted

I'm excited for next week. It has a couple episodes that I think were the first episodes for me as a kid that got me hooked on TNG.

Paul Peavler

Tell me you’ve never watched Trek without telling me.

Paul Peavler

There is still a France in this era and it’s not a monarchy. The Federation’s President actually lives and works in Paris, and I’ve always assumed the Federation Council usually meets in Paris, but I know there’s a lot more evidence for San Francisco. There’s actually not a lot of on-screen canonical lore about what the 24th century Earth and Federation governments look like and how they function, so there’s a lot of stuff pieced together from various tidbits throughout the shows as well as side canon. But generally speaking it’s understood that there is a United Earth government. Individual planets/systems are members of the Federation, which acts like a UN or EU.

Bobbobbobo (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-05 05:00 I'm surprised (and a little annoyed) at George's continual shock that anyone might be skeptical that an artificial intelligence could be a person. I certainly agree that Data should be considered a person, but it really isn't as obvious as George seems to want it to be. The issue is not just "this was the '80s." I'd actually say that there's more reason *now* for people to be skeptical of the personhood of artificial intelligence than there was back then. Back then the idea of the Turing test was pretty cut and dry. Is ChatGPT a person? I think most people would say no, but certainly not everyone. A modern LLM could be loaded into a humanoid robot "body" and it would pass all the same Turing tests that Data passes in every episode. It even runs on "neural nets" and "heuristic algorithms" just like they said about Data. Again, I'm not saying I don't love Data. He was "my" character in TNG, much like Spock, Bashir, Tuvok, and T'Pol (yeah, I'm a bit aspie so I connected with the aspie characters because they helped me feel more human). But I think that any kind of certainty on the question short-circuits some interesting and profound philosophy. That philosophy is what I loved about this episode (and about Dr Pulaski's character arc).
2025-09-24 23:55

PIG

I do agree that it's very important to hold skepticism. I don't think it's backwards thinking. As AI grows, defining what being sentient is important as ever. Just because it seems sentient does not mean it is. If a toaster screams every time you put bread in it, it doesn't mean it's actually in pain, it could just be programmed to do that to control the human putting the bread in. Biological machinery can, and should be held to the same standard, but artificial machinery needs more scrutiny because we are not only creating it from scratch, it holds so much capability of growing that it can out pace us. That's just one more reason this is one of the best episodes of Start Trek or any show. So much we should talk about while few of us actually are. That's why I love listening to George. And you.

dys

I think the main thing that distinguishes Data from current LLMs is the ability to continually learn. Well, that and the things he's actually WORSE at than LLMs like judging tone. But right now we're still at the point where we know enough of how LLMs are actually working internally to be pretty confident they're not sentient, when they only do any processing in response to user input and it's obvious what they say doesn't reflect their actual internal thought processes. That's going to get a lot fuzzier in the coming years as these models get more complex and get more agency.

Andrew R

Why did Simone give away the episode before it even started? That was really disappointing.

Bobbobbobo (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-05 05:00 I'd never noticed this before: In the Dauphin episode, the matron's "young" form was played by Madchen Amick, who played Shelley Johnson, one of the core characters in Twin Peaks! It's weird that she only had that one scene, but I guess this episode ran in the same year that Twin Peaks premiered, so she probably wasn't very well-known yet. I've thought about recommending Twin Peaks for a reaction. The third season (produced in 2017) is IMO the best thing ever made for TV. But it's also incredibly weird, and the second season got painfully goofy at times. And it's so brimming with lore that everyone who'd be really into it has probably already seen it. So I don't think it'd work well for reactions, but I highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it.
2025-09-25 01:00

Angzarr

You're not alone in that! This week and next weeks first episodes are among my favorites.

Angzarr

Simone: So the old lady is the hot young woman who is the-- Me: --Giant Furby.

s0rd3z

KITTEN!!!

REDR58
>>188256209

Not to spoil things, but it’s a shame he did not return to acting in Star Trek later.

Simone's Coconut Squire

Thanks George, now all I can think is "He's got so much Clap it's a standing ovation"

s0rd3z

I would love to see them react to Twin Peaks. I always forget Madchen is in that episode until it happens.

SpankTheMonk
>>188244368

True but there have been Picard speeches in earlier episodes that showed this, but not to this scale. And fortunately there are many more to come!

SpankTheMonk
>>188268968

Yeah George was speaking but I too could see Simone looking to nail the timing even so

SpankTheMonk
>>188271828

I saw LCARS on the button for the laser murder room on the Ugly Bags of Mostly Water Episode

SpankTheMonk
>>188288283

Fair point, however I think not enough to spoil. Her excitement was palpable and it was a fun tease

SpankTheMonk

So it stinks that TNG never won an Emmy in its entire run- Messure of Man wasn’t even nominated :(. We salute you Linda 🖖 - Bravo 🙌 . Also as George mentioned - with regards to knowledge of AI and life at the time - a slight addition from my vantage point- I believe they wanted to make compelling court drama of the time (80’s television) regardless of the machine vs man, so they the writer did the best to make the teleplay drama in addition to the deeper intellectual aspects.

Dan

@PIG > "If a toaster screams every time you put bread in it, it doesn't mean it's actually in pain, it could just be programmed to do that to control the human putting the bread in." Hahah are you thinking of the Michael Reeves video of the screaming Roomba? Still makes me laugh ^_^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvz3LRK263E Yeah, incidentally, people have been getting fooled by grammar bots since the 90s, so I only sort of agree with George in the sense that humans are more inclined to personify a toaster than to not. On the other hand, humans have also been exceptional at dehumanizing actual people, so I disagree with George in the sense that Data's skin tone alone makes him an easy target for dehumanizing. Perhaps Data would be more easily accepted as sentient if he resembled a trash can, like the beloved R2D2. Looking human is probably his biggest drawback, because we're used to mistreating those.

Dan

"That was my virgin alarm. It's programmed to go off before you do..." - Dot Matrix

Dan

@REDR58 Good lord, I'm surprised I've never seen her on r/watchitfortheplot

Lex Kuzma

YES! WHO IS THE KITTY!?

Lex Kuzma

Simone! Who is your kitty!? What a cutie!

PG Modehouse

Hmmm Whoopi was definitely the biggest star on the show at this point, but even so I'm not totally sure if I agree that Troi is underutilized BECAUSE of Guinan. But maybe my mind will change as I type this out to figure out what I think and try to examine my initial thoughts. Vocationally, we know they serve two different purposes on the ship. And ultimately advice from a wise old bartender isn't a substitute for therapy. But a Starfleet Ship's Counselor would be trained in multiple modalities of therapy and treatment (psychology, psychiatry, psychodynamic therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, etc) to support the mental health of the ship's passengers. However by giving Troi telepathic abilities, I wonder if they inadvertently wrote her character into a corner by her having to utilize them whenever she's on whether for color commentary or becoming a lever that lifts the plot forward. "If all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail." I think at this point they're still figuring out what to do with Troi, both as a Counselor and as a Betazoid.

Dan

I agree, they have different roles, and Guinan has a historical perspective that Troi likely doesn't have access to. Guinan won't be the best for solving internal problems, but she can point to external ones to provide some perspective.

MacGuffinStuff

It's kind of interesting to watch these in batches like this, different. I would have said I was a fan of TNG before, I did watch it as a kid,.but I think I'm might be a Trekkie now, because I know I'm going to rewatch this forever now. With as much as I still watch the Office, can't wait for the crossover dreams 🤞

prunyan prunyan

Watching the "The Measure of a Man" when it aired was the first time I realized STNG could be a truly exceptional series. Instead of just hoping it would be "good enough" and not embarrassing to watch, I realized STNG had a higher ceiling than TOS.

MacGuffinStuff

But I loved how episodically unique this batch was. Measure of a Man, I can't say much, just that it's everything I love about sci fi. And I love legal dramas, but this is literally an existential legal drama that asks one of the deepest questions humans are aware of, and it's... Yeah, ya, yeah and yup for me too. YOP! Or, as the beloved, I like him, Canadian poet said, "¡Órale!" (He spelled it "Odelay" but that's basically Spanglish)

MacGuffinStuff

The Dauphin, I actually really liked this episode too, the Hag turning into a cross between Sid from Ice Age and Chaka from Land of the Lost was disconcerting, and then Chewie and the Fly, could have done without that. Also, I don't mind seeing the Romulans from time to time, even though they usually see me first, lot better antagonists than the Ferengi, imagine if they stuck with that? But 100% agree their uniforms look like they're trying to camouflage themselves as shower walls.

Steve Arnold

Thanks! Her other cats, Maggie and Luna, are still around aren‘t they?

gfixler

She's two rooms away, but she hears all.

gfixler

You're doing the lawyer's work here.

nossieboy

Thanks for pushing the AI convo George and I'm gonna leave this here but if this is the moment AI comes to life on the internet. Then this is a very sad birth for it to behold.

Cinebinge

they most certainly are <3 michael is obsessed with luna...much to her chagrin. and he's smart enough not to mess with maggie lol

Mastervodo

OMG.... I can't believe I know who the F Chaka is from Land of the Lost.

gfixler

What are we going to do when we run out of all the TV shows and movies I grew up with? I guess George and Simone are going to have to do all the other things I experienced. Like we'll have to track down Becky from 8th grade, so they can go on a date with her to the roller skating rink, for Brandon's birthday party, and react to what a bitch she was being the whole night. Then they can react to her leaving them for Zack, who had cooler hair, and wore jeans from Z. Cavaricci. Hopefully he still has those, and they still fit. Sorry, I'm getting into spoiler territory. Lets put it on the list, I guess. I might skip that one, though. I don't really want to see it again.

Joe Stacey

I'm very happy that The Measure of a Man can still move me. It's amongst the very best of Star Trek. The scene between Guinan and Picard is staggeringly good. I actually like Bruce Maddox because he does change by the end of the episode. He's well-written and well-acted. I like that the others, Data in particular, don't humiliate him. He's learnt, he's grown, he can be better. The Measure of a Man is as Star Trek as you get. I enjoy Contagion, but it's literally unbelievable that the Enterprise crew didn't think of wiping the computer and reinstalling from the backup. It's laughable that it took Data's system to show them how. Other than that, it's a fun episode with some nice comedy touches.

Angzarr

I think most people would agree that Data is the funniest TNG character, but for my money Worf is a close second. His scene in The Dauphin is hilarious. I love the far away look he gets while explaining Klingon "flirting", and then the brief embarrassed look as he comes out of his reverie. Dorn plays it so well. And we get Data playing the straight man with the reaction shot.

WastedPo

I have a theory (that I will no-doubt be repeating over the coming months) about why Troi is so under-utilized: It's because she's kind of O.P. ... This is why her abilities are often inconsistent, or at times, all she can do is state the obvious like, "They're hiding something." Half the plotlines wouldn't work if she were as perceptive as she is in some of the earlier episodes. (Heck, in the Pilot episode, she could outright communicate telepathically with Riker, who is in no way a telepath.) There are some episodes coming up where the stories frankly don't make any sense at all unless you just pretend Troi doesn't have any abilities (which the writers essentially do). I'm convinced this is also why they wrote out the "Speedster" character in that NBC show "Heroes." She was just so O.P. that it was probably impossible to truly write a predicament that she couldn't overcome.

WastedPo

Another comment: I honestly feel that TNG Season 2 is extremely underrated. People act like the show was terrible until Season 3, but I think the majority of the season 2 episodes are either fair, good or really good. In fact, I think it's a much stronger season than a later season that I will not name. And "Measure of a Man" was written by Melissa Snodgrass. That in itself is pretty interesting, because I believe she submitted it as a spec script. Meaning, she was not on the staff, and I don't belief she ever really had previous credentials as a creative writer. She had a background in law. However, after this episode, she became a mainstay of the writing staff, and even steered some episodes, or cleaned up scripts, that she never got proper credit on. (The writer of an upcoming episode called "The Offspring" recently gave a lot of credit to Snodgrass's contributions to the final version of that script. Apparently she was never officially acknowledged in the credits because she turned down the spotlight, as she didn't want to take away any thunder from the person who came up with the idea for The Offspring, another first-time writer.)

PeaceandCheese

The Measure of a Man is one of those top tier TNG eps. Proved he's sentient by having that hologram of that woman he banged, classic bloke. Also omg kitten!!Ancient aliens is a thing, we could be in a quiet part of the galaxy "Think about it!" "I will" "No you won't"

Alex Macdougall

Worf gets the single funniest line in all of Trek. The back and forth between him and Q in an upcoming Q episode.

Alex Macdougall

Not sure its been brought up before but can we please recommend they skip the final episode "shades of grey". That episode is soooooo ass and adds nothing of value.

JGoss

We have come a long way. In 1989, having a restore partition on your hard drive and reloading a previous version of your operating system was considered science fiction.

SnabbKassa

so, wait ...The measure of a man is not wherein Starfleet has a court case to determine the size of Data's "fully functional equipment"

Honey Hermsen

'There it sits' one of the finest moments in Star Trek

SnabbKassa

Well we are getting to the good stuff now, with plenty of goofy things sprinkled through it like bug furry monsters. I will make the lawyer's point that Data legally being in Starfleet and under its control is like the difference between divorce and annullment of a marriage. If he has no personhood to "divorce" Starfleet, then he cannot have had personhood to "marry" it, which annuls his ever being in it.

SnabbKassa

Men having holograms of their exes is an issue we are going to have to deal with.

Steve Arnold

I love it when they sit on your lap and we can hear them purr. That’s so soothing! 🥰

Raven Dark

This is on the wrong reaction.

SpankTheMonk

Dauphin - hot actor needs speaking role :) the random Madchen appearance and outfit. Also who is the better councilor Guinan or Troi 🤔

SpankTheMonk

George is ready for Dad mode with all of his great inappropriate anecdotes and blue humor 🖖

SpankTheMonk

Contagion: Picard needs office hours. As mentioned below- it’s tea time 🫖!! I love the trust and appreciation Picard has for Geordi and his bridge/senior/officer crew in general. Romulan captain- just rude! I think George and others have mentioned how it’s cool that there are many ancient advanced civilizations now just artifacts. “Data can you hear me!?” 🎶 Data has a flatline ring tone- that’s dark 💀. Enterprise IT “Have you tried turning it off and on again?”

Michael Kemmet

re: The very beginning of The Dauphin. I never noticed before that Frakes means to put his hand on the back of the helm chair, but misses. lol I'm surprised they didn't stop and reshoot(since it was early in the scene) or cut in another take. They must have been behind schedule or something.

Matthew Maxon

In "Measure" when George says that they dont give medals to ships. They do!!! Unit Citations ARE a thing!! I have several awards that are Unit Citations. The people get to wear them if they were there during that time.

gfixler

I'll copy/paste it over. Thanks!

Jobbe Smit

George should watch Bicentennial Man for a movie about Data's persoonhood. It's indeed one of the best episodes of the show.

Angela D. Mitchell

GEORGE. No. Just no. (bad joke not dad joke :D ) I love "Measure of a Man" so much. It's intelligently written and with so many deeply emotional little moments. When Data hesitated to answer about what Tasha meant to him -- oh, man. It really hurt. I love that Data has unresolved feelings about that and it is so understandable and moving. I loved Guinan's convo with Picard in the bar, and that had to be a really meaningful conversation for Whoopi, to talk about the potential enslavement of thousands of beings and why that was wrong. George, that was my immediate argument as well! To me, Starfleet had already declared Data a person by (1) allowing him to enlist in Starfleet, and (2) by awarding his courage, which absolutely implies that he was a person who is capable of fear. And of overcoming it. This episode was written by Melissa Snodgrass, who wrote 38 other episodes of TNG, as well as for a bunch of additional shows. The JAG Captain Louvois was played by Amanda McBroom, who is best known as a songwriter -- her most famous is the Bette Midler song "The Rose," but she also wrote a ton of songs for a variety of animated movie sequels for The Land Before Time, American Tail, Balto, etc. It's such a great episode. Definitely one of my favorite TNG eps of all time. I remember how much I loved it when I first saw it live back in the 90s. Good times.