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Andor 204-206 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-10-07 12:00:07
Edited:
2026-01-08 02:29:41
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Comments

Chris Kelley

I’m watching the tv show Lost (2004) and I was thinking the show might break George with the way it breaks its own rules and logic so this intro made me laugh. Also when did Simone get a new kitten?

dudewheresmycar

I'd be curious to see if your story criticisms of Superman 2 and the inconsistent story moments it has still exist with a reaction to the Donner cut? Most of that movies issues stem from Donner being removed halfway through filming and Richard Lester the replacement director trying to refilm enough of it to gain directors credit whilst not spending too much money to go over budget. The movie ended up being a patchwork of both directors works with Lester having no understanding of the character of Superman and his Clark Kent alter ego.

Jeff K.

That's a great call on LOST. I think George would be incredibly intrigued, but then his head would explode over the massive jumps and twists in logic.

Mastervodo

From what we know, the kitten's name is Michael and she found him in her woodpile.

Ian Hunt

I agree on the point on logic discrepancies. I think tonal shifts can work really well, especially when it’s done so subtly you hardly notice (like Parasite when it suddenly goes from satirical comedy to a sort of horror movie). But sometimes when logic lapses in some films it can feel like a cop out

ShōNuff3K

MARGO!!! Has that always been there?

Lone Desert Bones

I concur entirely with the consistency issue. I think the only way that sort of blatant deviation would be forgivable is if inconsistency WAS the rule; if we had a protagonist who dealt exclusively with inconsistency as a character trait. THAT, I think, if executed well, could be very interesting.

Lone Desert Bones

I admittedly came here to show this, but knew in my heart of hearts that I would be beat to the punch lol

Wrwemi

You're right about the Ghormans sounding French, all this part of the show is based on a french TV Show, "Un Village Français" that the writer Tony Gilroy apparently loves (and an influence on Andor). There are even two actors from that show playing Ghormans !

John Miller

For me, the problem with inconsistencies is when something happens that's outside the norm of the universe your watching. For instance, if I'm watching an action movie, I don't get too caught up in the fact that the people aren't constantly going to the hospital after a fight or care accident, or jumping off a building into a trash bin, because that's how action movies are.

Jaaahn

unless the movie made a point about realism of injuries effecting the character, like Die Hard 1 with the glass on the feet, thats something regular action movies dont bother showing. or saving private ryan with the ear ringing after explosions, or Heat with the shootouts and how realistic it is, so much so that police and military use it to show urban conflict.

RogueRN

Re: inconsistencies - the SW sequels have that issue, IMO. “Force healing” is a power that shows up in the sequels seemingly out of nowhere. The concept itself is in line with light-side Force users’ philosophy…but it can out of nowhere in the movies. (It could be mentioned in other materials, but for more casual viewers it just comes out of nowhere.) Plus, considering those skills require training and practice (see Luke on Dagobah) the characters just seeming to be able to suddenly do this at will just seemed out of nowhere. Definitely had the, “a Wizard did it” vibe for me. (End rant!)

Professor00

The Superman comics of the 50’s to the 80’s had Superman having all kinds of one-shot powers. It was the nature of how the comics were written for kids. You could 10 issues from the 60’s and see a new power every issue that was never used again. It was comics for kids at the time. The 80’s movies were the same. After Crisis on Infinite Earths, Superman’s powers stabilized even more and became more standard and later movies reflected that.

Jeff K.

Regarding the people in action movies constantly being in situations where they 100% should have died or at least been severely injured, one of my favorites is that, in one of the latest Fast and Furious movies, they finally addressed it head on by having Tyrese's character essentially wink to the audience with a line where he theorizes that they are actually immortal.

mojo shivers

The Saw and Wilmon scene stealing Rhydo where Saw gives that great delirium monologue about living in the moment, living in the Rebellion, is so good. It's no wonder Wilmon just gets entranced by the moment. Saw's so persuasive in his fervor. LOL

Spacedone

Re: George's start of video discussion about inconsistencies in writing and plot points , all I could think was "Don't watch Alien Earth, George..."

iFixSAN

Sooo Dedra and Syril. Amazon position? Pegging? A little bit of both?

Golandaz

Radio lady FTW!

Golandaz

The wait for this episode felt like forever! Can’t wait for next week!

Golandaz

The Dr Gorst mission was definitely sanctioned by Luthen. There is no way for Cassian to know Gorsts location. That was information passed by Lonni to Luthen. I am sure that Partegaz probably blames the Navy or Military intelligence for the leak about Dr Gorst

funky weapon

I dunno, I think watching George lose his mind over the stupidity in that show would be fun.

Jon

"noticeable flaws" were they talking about Superman 2 or the rest of the live action Star Wars? haha. The Ghorman language was based off of French and they hired exclusively French speakers for the speaking roles. After being used to hearing "alien" languages based on English, it's an interesting experience to hear one based on a different one. NEED a Lonnie series. Syril thinks it's about growing the rebels to draw Axis (Luthen) and Andor in to help out...Dedra is trying to get the rebellion to grow so they can put the hammer down.

Sleepy

The opening discussion here was great (I'm typing this before the beginning of the reaction itself). The lack of setup for a story element (chekhov's gun) and the plot inventing new elements to benefit the protagonists (deus ex machina) are really interesting topics to discus then it comes to writing. Since this is a Star Wars video, it'd be worth bringing up that the sequel trilogy (The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and The Rise of Skywalker) have tons of examples of bad setups and absurd plot points (worth watching because of the bad and inconsistent writing, in my opinion). The general rule with writing is that you want your reader/viewer to engage with the story - to want to know/guess at what happens next, and for them to be engaged with the answer when it comes. In a murder mystery, you want them trying to figure out who the killer is. And, when the killer is revealed, you want it to make sense and connect with the previous events in the story (you can't have a character in the same scene as the masked killer in one scene, only to reveal that the character *is* the killer later on - that'd be a plot hole). A lack of proper setup and not giving the reader/viewer enough information to understand/make sense of what's happening takes away from that engagement and makes for a more passive and disinterested reading/viewing experience. Same as with unfulfilling answers leave them feeling put out and underwhelmed (like if the character of the killer in a murder mystery is only introduced five minutes before the reveal). There are exceptions (there are always exceptions in writing - just imagine every bit of writing advice and every writing rule out there has an asterisk attached), but that's the gist.

Śéáń

Internal consistency is important, it's always a weak argument to say "it's a fantasy, you're fine with by Orcs and wizards but not x?" to defend weak writing. They're two seperate things being lumped together, even when they sound like the same thing when packaged that way in a retort. Even though it was used as an example of otherwise, the lack of consistency in Harry Potter's magic system has always bugged me, even when reading the books as a young teen. I remember being particularly annoyed by the time the bad guys had a "Taboo" on the word Voldermort, knowing that only certain people would say that name, which would allow them to instantly track anyone who uttered the word. One, that's a batshitly strong thing to introduce in book 5 or whatever, but also, why wasn't that used exactly the same way by the good guys to find the bad guys at any point in the series history? Most of HP's magic system had a 'flying by the seat of its pants' quality to it with very little consistency from book to book.

Ashton Lewis

George, you are 100% correct and are not crazy. Each film/show sets up it's own established rules, and for the film to be consistent and logical (within its own set of rules) it has to follow them. It doesn't matter what genre it is. I think some people don't worry about things like that and can just enjoy the spectacle, and that's absolutely fine. It's also absolutely fine to admit that something like that takes away from your experience of watching something. If people are saying that you should look past it because of the genre then they must see the issue too, but it doesn't bother them. It would bother me too though, so you're not the only one. We all want honest reactions from you both at the end of the day, and that includes pointing out things that bother you.

Śéáń

I'm really glad the Mon Mothma dance scene landed well, it's one of my favourite creative decisions of the season* because it conveyed her state of mind so well in a way that wasn't "sad dialogue/face acting" Great job by director and Genevieve O'Reilly * Saying that, I have so many favourite creative decisions this season, but they will all come in due course

Śéáń

I love the use of Pouter pigeons on Ghorman for sufficiently alien looking birds without having to rely on CGI or puppetry. Fancy pigeon breeds are really fun, despite the basic pigeon's boring reputation.

The Real Andrew Kim

The reason asking the gaurd to do it was a threat because THEY ARE LAZY FASCIST PIGS! just like all right wing authoritarian nut jobs, they feel like they deserve everything without doing any work... the threat was that they would actually have to get off their fatasses and do something for once....Andor pointed this out when he explained how he was able to just sneak into an imperial military factory and steal imperial equipment in the first season

Spacedone

It's a quick throwaway line from Luthen when he meets with Bix in the safehouse but he tells her that the dreams she's taking the drug to avoid come back worse when you stop using it. He's speaking from personal experience. It's a glimpse into how the life Luthen has chosen, the things he's done or experienced, have left him suffering PTSD too so he genuinely sympathises with Bix.

Dirge Girl

Simpsons: "Gorman's Ear Guards - GUARD YOUR EARS! With Gorman's." 8)

Hammerdash

Clearing up a few random things: There may have been a real weapon appraisal job somewhere, but in that scene the weapon that Luthen needed to appraise was Bix. Syril talked about what he believed the goal on Ghorman was at some point. I think it was the meeting with Partagaz but it could have been a private conversation with Dedra. He thinks they are cultivating the Ghorman resistance as bait to draw in and capture more important anti-Imperial forces, maybe even Axis himself. The last scene was definitely a mission for Luthen. There was a sequence of events leading up to it. Andor goes to Luthen angry, but ultimately ends that scene by asking for help with Bix. Then Lonni learns about Gorst's program and goes to inform Luthen off-screen. After that Bix sees the signal for a mission from Luthen, and finally that all comes together in the assassination of Gorst and the destruction of his facility.

Simon

You totally nailed it!

Where_Were_You_When_The_Westfold_Fell

Regarding the discussion at the start. Yes, no internal consistency is a sign for bad writing, but how problematic this is, depends on a lot of factors. The closer the "inconsistency" is to the main plot or solution, the more problematic it tends to be. But I usually tend to be very forgiving, since a lot of people automatically equate missing information with inconsistency. Which is simply not the case. And this tends to annoy me a lot more. (Not that I'm aware that George ever did this) If the inconsistency leaves room for interpretation and is not mission-critical, I'm in the camp of "Yeah, don't think about it". Although, the argument of "It's fantasy", is probably as ridiculous as the inconsistency itself.

Chris

One thing to clear up on who might recognize who: All the folks were on Ferrix, but Cassian and Bix are the only ones the Imperials would recognize. Conversely, the rebels would only recognize Dedra. Cassian and Luthen very briefly encountered Syril in 1-3 when they disarmed him before escaping, but not in a way that he would've been a significant figure for them--he was just an imperial with a blaster. In 1-12 he was there incognito--but Bix meanwhile was interrogated face-to-face with Dedra.

Jim Watkins

I think it's just as valid to dismiss inconsistencies. You're spending hours of your time and energy obsessing over the fine details of made up fairy tales, a complete distraction from the very real and serious problems plaguing our world. I love star wars more than anyone here but making it a hobby/identity just works in favour of fascists.

Jim Watkins

The "Radio Lady" is the one who's really in charge of the operation. We've seen this many times already in S1 and S2 where she keeps Luthen in line and guides his decision-making. It was also confirmed by Tony Gilroy in an interview.

Jim Watkins

I'm guessing you guys haven't watched Clone Wars, when you do you'll get a much better understanding of why Saw Gerrera is the way he is.

Jeff K.

Yep. And my read is that Luthen needs Cassian back fully in the game, and he wants Bix back in the game as well but knows that as long as she's still battling her demons, neither of those things will ever happen. So the surest way to move her forward in her recovery is to have her literally slay her demons.

William

And REBELS. ;)

William

It's kinda cute that you think all those folks actually know who Syril is...or even actually met him. ;)

Matthew Langley

For me consistency of both tone and "rules" the world establishes is very important two. As I've grown older however I pull up two counterpoints I try to balance me from overly obsessing about that. 1) Humility. Essentially recognizing that we can't observe or understand everything. Sometimes we see something as inconsistent and it's not the problem we are, I find this is especially true when you're constantly looking for issues. If you get too deep in that mentality you start to invent problems are get to hyper focused you start to miss things, even obvious things that would be obvious if you were just relaxed consuming the content. Then if you mistake an inconsistency it can sour the well and become a self perpetuating cycle where you keep looking for more issues that aren't there. My example of this with you guys is while watching The Expanse. It felt like you were really trying hard to find inconsistencies that you often missed obvious explanations right in front of you. I can get this way too, it's not a very enjoyable way to consume content so I've learned to move away from it, at least to a degree. 2) Context matters and ignoring some issues can result in appreciating something far more than you might otherwise. Inconsistencies don't ruin the whole thing if you don't let it. For me my big wake up call was Harry Potter. There's so many inconsistencies within the rules they set and they set those rules very much in your face. So much deus ex machina, also new abilities that would break the world if applied everywhere etc... but hit a point where I stepped back and realized this was originally created for young adults, if I lighten up a bit and look past these issues there's a rich world and an interesting story to enjoy.

RogueRN

Yeah, I was going to mention this in another post as well. While Cassian and Luther did see Syril on Ferrix (S1 E3?) they didn’t really see his face - somewhat in profile at best. And I don’t think Vel, Cinta, Bix, Cassian, or Luthen saw him during Marva’s funeral - everyone (including Syril) was trying to blend in with the crowd. Syril only really knows what Cassian looks like from the holographic pic they had of him (IIRC).

Brendan Falvy

Yes, Gorst was the mission. Remember that Lonnie and Supervisor Heert were given responsibility for overseeing Gorst being folded into Military Intelligence and that the Navy were setting up a facility on Coruscant. At the same time, Cassian pressed Luthen to stop effing with them and help him help Bix. We are meant to conclude that Lonnie has updated Luthen on this new “information gathering” initiative (which totally makes sense) and the Luthen has immediately passed it along. An amazingly fortuitous coincidence which I find so satisfying that I struggle to be bothered by it. Also, notice Lonnie’s double take in Sculden’s gallery when he stands next to Luthen. It’s a great touch because he wouldn’t know who Luthen is IRL, or at least hasn’t seen him in his shop outfit. I suspect he didn’t even know about the shop and had to figure out what Kleya was about when she confronts him at the party.

Phalanx

Every arc in this season will take place one year after the previous one. Andor was originally plotted out as a 5 season show with each season being a year in the life of Andor leading up to Rogue One (BBY = Before Battle of Yavin, the climactic event of Episode IV which takes place immediately following Rogue One). Gilroy and Luna came to the conclusion that with the effort that it took just for the first season, it'd take them the better part of a decade to do 5 seasons (and the odds of Disney eventually balking at the price tag and cutting the budget or pulling the plug on the show), so they opted to reduce it to 2 and 4 seasons of events into 4 arcs. And they pulled it off amazingly well... except for the fact that it's was so good I really wish there were another 3 full seasons to look forward to. Fully sympathize with inconsistencies being bothersome. There's a lot of additional context with Superman that you touched on (change of directors/visions for what it should be), but there's also, at that point, 40ish years of history and the weirdness of the 50s and 60s comics, and the mindset that they were for kids and didn't need to be consistent. As for other things being consistent... I say this as a huge Star Wars fan, but... don't look too closely for consistency in Star Wars. Even in the original trilogy (Vader being Luke's father, Leia being his his sister were both complete ass pulls, for example, which led to a lot of backsplaining to smooth things over that Obi-Wan said in Episode 4, and Leia being the pay off to 'no, there is another' in Episode V - Luke WAS going to have a sister, it was never meant to be Leia, though, George just didn't want to do more Star Wars so had to pay it off with an established character). This is to say nothing of the prequels changing things, the sequels changing things, Star Wars 'Legends' going from canon to not canon, to slowly being re-canonized. Like, there are a lot of elements in Andor which were consigned to Legends non-canon, but Gilroy and company chose to (through confusion as to whether or not they actually were already canon or otherwise) re-canonize them, and pulled off a minor miracle in making it all work.

Danny Bryant

Yes. Also watch REBELS Please.

Danny Bryant

To George's question at the beginning, this is a reaction channel , right? All joking aside George, your reactions are honest and I hope they stay that way. Your reactions as well as mine and everyone else's are valid even if they conflict. That being said, I do give any movies based on comics/graphic novels a bit more leeway than regular movies in the consistency department. Partly because it is a jungle over there and partly because I haven't read everything, YET.

Phalanx

Also, you'll be happy to know that the costume designer for the series won an Emmy for his work. Extremely well deserved.

Jesse

I agree with George's original point about internal consistency although I didn't necessarily think the examples you mentioned were the best. Maybe you're not saying it but I just don't want any writer to be hamstrung by some genre standard, like the idea that a comedy can't also have a genuine heartfelt moment. You're probably not saying that but yes, I agree that internal consistency is important in that the rules that a writer defines as being the bounds of the world they've created is important. They can write anything and everything you want but even within a fantasy world there are certain bounds that it must exist within as previously defined by the writer. I think perhaps a good example would be if Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings during the battle at Gondor, if he just started throwing around fireballs and destroying Sauron's army that would be inconsistent with the rules and the characters that JRR Tolkien defined.

Philipp Roensch

I don't think such outrageous plot flips happen that often, I like to watch good setup and payoff more, though. What I don't like are plot contrivances, when things don't get the time or adequate explanation, but are essential to move the plot. Even the very good new Superman (2025) had this in one detail: Mr. Terrific and the villains just get to dismiss any doubt about the validity of the family recording, because "they know the guys who checked it". That is a weak lever to steer the story. Sometimes such things get introduces earlier, smoother, adeptly, but it really sticks out when it is only to make the plot happen. This show however, keeps placing nice breadcrumbs to follow, I had a hunch they were going after the interrogator now. But Krennic is quite the jump scare, holy heck. It get's a bit frustrating how flailing some parts of the rebel movement are, sad to see a good character go to poor gun safety.

Tcrimson05T

Oh Dedra definitely p🥚s. All wound up. Has to get that frustration out somehow. And Syril is exactly the kind to melt for a "good boy". Honestly, I'm here for it. 🫠

Jesse Coombs

Always be truthful in your reactions/feelings. That's why we're here.

Ari Ramirez

french + german = frenchman

Golandaz

100% if something would have happened to Bix I doubt Cassian would ever trust Luthen again

Darth Fatass

You thought these episodes were good. I can't wait for next week's reaction.

MacGuffinStuff

That last scene was so badass, True Romance in space, Bean and Cheese burrito (Bonnie and Clyde). I only have a couple random things to say because these episodes are so thick and I forgot what I was gonna say. Oh but, Kleya I'll definitely remember because it sounds like Leia and that can't be a coincidence, she's got those fierce dark eyes like Carrie Fisher, and her hair style is even, it's an obvious nod I think and I love it. No Simone, that's Benjamin Bratt who was Paco in Blood In, Blood Out (😂 you guys will never watch it but he was a kinda badass in that), that's a different Benjamin Bratt. He was also a badass in Clear and Present Danger, with Harrison Ford as Jack Ryan. George's point about Superman 2 is valid and accurate, but I just give the movie a pass because it was the first and for a long time only successful comic book to movie series. Also, didn't Zod have like telekinesis for a second? Yeah it makes no sense, weak writing but that is why most adults never took comic book writing seriously until filmmakers and especially the novelists took the medium to the next level.

James W.

On George's pre-show thoughts around people dismissing weaknesses in Superman 2. I feel like it is wrongheaded to dismiss narrative, logical, or tonal inconsistencies just because the target or even the source is a comic or somesuch. I find it weird that people want to excuse things they enjoyed at an earlier stage in their life for some trumped up reasons instead of just being honest about it. There are many things I loved when I was child and YA that are objectively bad on rewatch. I'm not going to defend how hokey or stupid they are, but I also won't totally crap on them either because I can still probably draw the line to what had me so enamored of it back in the day. The movie "Legend" by Ridley Scott is the first thing that comes to mind for me. I loved it when I was younger but think it is really bad as a grown up. Is Mia Sara still crazy attractive? Yes, Is Tim Curry perfection? Yes. Does that save the movie from being hokey 80s horseshit? No. Are we still allowed to like things that we know are kinda crap? 100%. I just hate when people make excuses for it. My 2-Cents. Edit: Mon's dancing in Ep3 struck me as desperate more than frantic or chaotic. Mon is dancing and drinking to disassociate. She doesn't want to be in her head or her body anymore but no matter how desperately she tries she can't escape the weight of all the things she put in motion. Reminds a bit of Tilda Swinton's character in Michael Clayton which was also directed/written by the Gilroys.

The Real Andrew Kim

There is also a real life clothing material called Goretex, I thought that's what George might had been thinking of, but knowing he's a huge Simpsons fan you probably are closer to what it reminded him of.

dys

Gosh it bugs me when some supposed fans raise those things as if they were plotholes (I know you guys aren't, I'm agreeing). Definitely not the kind of thing George & Simone were talking about, and not just because they're huge LOTR fans. Tolkien is one of the highest-effort, most "did the research" authors in all of English-language literature, so it can't possibly count as the kind of lazy inconsistency they're discussing here.

dys

I'm definitely willing to grant a comic book movie a lot of leeway in terms of silliness, and melding things together that don't seem like they obey the same laws of reality. But I think for it to be good the writers/directors need to be able to establish some ground rules of what is possible and what tone it will take. Like the first Avengers movie, kinda ridiculous when you have characters that are just good at punching because they took scifi steroids, or have an armored suit that is impossible in reality but looks enough like something modern technology could produce, or are literal gods, or are just secret agents that are so skilled they can keep up with all the above. But it worked because the creators knew how to make it feel like they could all exist at the same time as silly as it was. The new Fantastic Four movie is another good example, a cosmic being that eats planets should seem silly in a universe that is otherwise mostly a retro-future 60s, but they didn't have to deconstruct Galactus and go some grimdark direction, they did something that felt true to the spirit of the character but still made it all feel cohesive. And that's one of my two biggest gripes with the new Superman movie, the characters mostly didn't feel like they should exist in the same world at all.

Ari Ramirez

Man I'm sorry but I could never take the character Cinta seriously because her name is literally just the word for "tape" in my native language

Marty McGee

I had to laugh when you mentioned the Superman II pulling the S off the chest to wrap up the guy. There was a great Family Guy bit where they do that scene and the villain says, "Whoa what was that?" Superman: "Yeah showed you didn't it? Didn't expect that?" Villain: "No. That was a minor inconvenience." Superman: "Yeah I know." Love this arc! Yeah that was the mission. Cassian basically told Luthen if he really wanted Bix healthy, he needed to help with that. Then Lonnie gets told that Dr. Gorst was going to be in a non-ISB facility. So Luthen had the perfect mission right there. Killing their top torturer (who could potentially easily gain information on his operations if they captured the wrong person) while simultaneously allowing Bix to get her reckoning. Also love Vel's speech to the kid. She could have made it about her grief, but instead she praised Cinta and used it to burn a lesson into him.

Marty McGee

Eh. If they had to recast, Benjamin Bratt was a great choice. If I were Jimmy Smits though I'd be upset at not being able to be part of this show in particular. As far as needing to watch Clone Wars before Rebels, it's not a hard requirement. I watched Rebels having only seen a few Clone Wars S1 episodes and wasn't lost at all. I would suggest watching a few of the relevant arcs from CW though to enhance the experience.

FranciscoGios

The reason Saw Gerrera is so unhinged is because he lost his only sister to The Separatist faction, and she was his anchor his everything. The Gorman Front hand gesture is the same as the middle finger. As for the inconsistency of Superman 2 I can agree that it under values it’s viewers in a lot of ways.

Saifu

Can it be next week already?

Jared Winn

I’d suggest a rewatch of Rogue One after the series, if not for the channel than in your own time. It flows together so well and I believe enhances it. I’m glad they were made by the same person.

dys

I'm sorry, we're all watching this show with them but are we all just ignoring that this is clearly meant to reflect and is far too accurate to what is happening in the United States right now?

James W.

The Ghorman Front is definitely inspired by the french revolutionaries from WW2 and other partizan groups throughout history. There is an awesome podcast where Jon Stewart, Tony, Gilroy and this historian talk about the parallels and inspirations. I love that they got french actors to make up a this cool franco-germanic contructed language for Star Wars. It's a trip how Chandrila, Ghorman, and Ferrix, have more more fleshed out actual world building and culture than almost any world in Star Wars. The Only characters that met Syril were Cass and Luthen. Bix got detained by Dedra after Syril got fired for letting Cass and Luthen escape. Syril knows Cass more from his holo-mugshot because he never saw Cass' face iirc. He got caught from behind. He definitely never saw Luthen otherwise he would be dead already. I enjoy watching his character very much but I feel like you guys need to skim over season 1 and watch Syril again. That dude at no point is ever trying to do a "good" thing. His pursuit of Cassian was somewhat righteous at first because he doesn't know that those cops were shaking down Cass when they got dead. But then he simps for the empire hard. He is an insecure man-boy with delusions of competence. I hate his mother but her read on him is 100% right. He aligns with the side he perceives as strong because he want's be seen as strong when he has no real substance. I think this season, especially this arc, is the first time he starts to get a real glimpse of whose side he is on. I feel like he is somewhat sincere in that he respects the Ghormans but not more than loves the Empire. He got turgid when Parteghast validated him. Kleya who was low key in S1 gets better with every episode of S2. By far one of my favorite new characters in Star Wars. Elizabeth Dulau delivers surprisingly nuanced performances for this being her first big gig. To be fair though, there aren't really any weak performances in this show. Wilmon is also stellar. His whole arc with Saw is insanely good. I used to think Saw was a punchline but after this show and taking all his other appearances in games and other shows into account, his whole story is just tragic. The way he calls the Rhydo his sister; who died in his origin in the clone wars cartoon, is heartbreaking. That dude has been fighting for like decades at this point just trying to get revenge on someone but he'll never really get satisfaction. She died as a casualty in a fake war, where the bad guys and the goods are basically the same guys, and he'll really never get what he wants.

Green Nolan

Could you be thinking of "gortex" from Seinfeld George? Also, the short woman who was upset about the fake historical piece is another game of thrones alum. She played the witch who tried to save khal drogo at the end of season 1.

Mitchell Bowker

If for 10 minutes in the middle of a Monty Python movie it became a melodrama, and someone die of cancer... that would be the joke!

Jon Johns

Dys, just my personal opinion, but... This was written, and filmed long before the US elections last year. Unfortunately, I do not think the creators meant so much similarity, instead, Tony (and his brother to a lesser extent) are students of history. Most of the bigger plotlines are based upon historical figures biographies, historical events, etc, etc. the fact that "today" seems so related, is because all this has happened before. But, that's just like, my opinion, man.

Jon Johns

I would add that George should link to their reaction in the YouTube description, and as the suggested next video in the outro card. Although it would be VERY COOL to watch along with these two rewatching R1 after this is over!

Jon Johns

🤣 Right! The anticipation / impatience is *real*!!!

Jon Johns

Bras d'honneur might be what this is called, although, I could only find examples of the first pouting up, and the other hand in the bicep? So I'm not sure.

Jon Johns

George!!! I have so many thoughts about your thoughts about plot weakness, but I'll just bring up one thing: it is infamous that writers start something and don't finish, for a variety of reasons. Also, writers get replaced for any number of reasons. I'd guess that more than 50% if stupid plot fixes, lost threads, plot holes, and general unfinished business and stupid "fixes" are due to this. In some writers rooms, one writer will suggest a great idea, and the show runs with it, only to have a BETTER idea come up from a different writer weeks later, causing the original idea to either and due due to impracticality. (For those who know, think the lost polar bear) Anyhoo, the other 50% is likely laziness, or interference (from studios, producers, directors, etc) Writing well is hard, producing a coherent story is hard. Building a franchise is hard. I just like to think that when it's done well, it is justly celebrated.

Simon Pegged Me

Thanks for sharing that. I watched a couple of series of Un Village Français, and was happy to see Thierry Godard in this as a Ghorman. Good to know that wasn't a coincidence.

Shibby

I'm glad you guys speak your mind even if you think most people wont agree with you. I'd rather an honest reaction than someone just trying to please people. Also I'm happy you guys are enjoying Andor it's really an incredibly well written show and hopefully the last half of the season will blow you away.

Mr. Writhms

Forest Whitaker should have won that Emmy for playing Saw. At least he was nominated.

Mike FromOz

I love that you've included subtitles for your movies and shows, but I really wish the subtitles for this didn't have [SPEAKING GHORMAN] over the top of the inbuilt subtitles in the show, as I want to know what is being said at that moment, not in what language it is being spoken. Is this the only set of subtitles that is available? Are there Cinebinger's here who need the full descriptive text, which also gives music cue's etc? I don't want to exclude anyone, I just find it annoying that they couldn't arrange the placement of subtitles better in instances where there are already ones in place.

The Real Andrew Kim

Just FYI going into the next 3 episodes, Bail Organa was recast for this show. Original actor was Jimmy Smitts, but he was not available so Benjamin Bratt took over and IMO he is the best portrayal of Bail yet.

Justin Leone

It's strongly implied that killing Gorst was a mission that Luthen put them up to. Luthen knows that Bix is in a problematic mental state. She needs to feel useful, and do something that satisfies her. He needs her healthy, as he said. And he knows that he can't get rid of her without losing Cassian. And Lonny has just learned that Dr. Gorst is going to be loaned out to other branches, rather than remaining an ISB exclusive. Partagaz wants the ISB to keep an eye on "these idiots" in the navy, who have set up the facility for him. This is a perfect opportunity for Gorst to be assassinated, because it could be blamed on lax security at the Navy facility, rather than an ISB leak. So presumably, Lonni passes this information to Luthen, who realizes it's a perfect mission for Bix and Cassian.

Justin Leone

@Jon Johns - You're largely correct. Of course the show was written before the 2024 election, and it's largely based on similar events throughout history. But the similarities to current events aren't really a fluke either. The facets of real-world fascism, particularly those which are emphasized in the next 3 episode arc, have been WELL underway since before Andor was created. So while Andor obviously isn't a direct retelling of US current events, the similarities are still striking because the fascist playbook never actually changes all that much. Which is why it's infuriating that so many millions of historically illiterate American idiots are in denial about it happening. And Tony Gilroy is very open about these similarities. There's an interview where he "half-jokingly" wondered if Steven Miller was watching the show and matching it. It's about 25 minutes in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaqnHfa6n4E He goes on to say that "Fascism is Fascism. When it shows up, it does the same thing every time."

William

Yup. Bingo!

Ricardo Alanis

Definitely recommend Obi-Wan Kenobi. It’s a great one season but also shows a young Leia with a great performance.

KyloJames

If you guys are loving this, I’m begging you to watch ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER as soon as it hits streaming next month!!

Patrick Evans

You mentioned Superman 2, you should read up on the absolute madness that making superman and superman 2 were.

Cinebinge

1. when have i actually done this? i absolutely do notice things even during emotional scenes and i will say what comes to mind. but when do i actually nitpick such trivial details during those moments? 2. and lets assume it actually has happened, why do you assume it is a thing a life long friend of mine has to endure with patience? because it bothers you specifically there for it must be true for her and that of all the things she can and has told me outright, some how this she can't or wont? i really, really dont want to be directly confrontational like this but there is only so much generalized accusations and misattributions of intend and words i can handle. to constantly read about how i am as a person, how i perceive things in general as being incorrect or a flaw. i cannot just become another person. it is to me as unchangeable as you telling me the shape of my head bothers you, and it may, but its not something i can/will change or apologize for. so it is deeply unpleasant and downright hurtful to have the way i talk and perceive the world be scrutinized as such.

Nate Gavin

Hey George/Simone as it’s the last season of Andor and being that it’s Halloween, how about the next series being Ash vs Evil Dead? Everyone’s favourite rogue - except that he’s even more assholic and lovable this time around!

John Miller

What's the kittens name?

LeperMessiah117

Man, I'm on the site now thinking of ways to advocate for Ash vs Evil Dead. So I'll say I'm behind you on this recommendation 100%. Must watch.

Jesse Coombs

As far as Forest Whitaker goes, please watch "Ghost Dog". It's a very unique, very cool movie.

John

I would also recommend The Last King of Scotland, he won an oscar for that role

Drake

i guess tehy cant tell Syril because he isnt a fanatic he aint evil, he is a true believer. he believes the empire is the good guy, hes hunted cassian because cassian murdered cops. he truly believes he is on the good side fighting terrorists.

Jesse

Yep, Syril is just a pathetic sad little fascist, simple as that.

Angela D. Mitchell

George, thanks for the thoughtful discussion on Superman II. I admit that I thought you guys were too hard on the movie, and that knowing that the production was troubled influenced your reactions -- even while watching, y'all were constantly speculating on what was changed/messed up, etc. I also don't think the "kiss of forgetting" was unclear. It was pretty clearly presented, to me, that the kiss did something to Lois -- he looks sad and kisses her, the music makes a mysterious "magical sound," she immediately passes out for several seconds, then she pops up again as the usual bubbly Lois -- treating Clark like "Clark" again with no memory of her sadness as he walks away looking regretful, etc. I DO think you have a point about the unexpected powers Superman demonstrates at the end -- throwing his "shield," etc. I definitely get why it bothers some, although it didn't bother me -- I just figured, "Oh, cool, I've never seen him do that before!" I still think S2 is a better film than you give it credit for being. The main crux for me is that it's about the burden of superheroism vs. mortality, both when it comes to his life and to Lois -- and the truth that Lois is only in love with Superman, not Clark. So when he had to become "human" in order to be with her (understandable given his biology) the irony is, once he became human, she didn't really love him -- and he didn't love himself. There's a great line when he's been beaten up and Lois consoles him with, "I want to be with the man I love," and he says bitterly, "I wish he were here." Reeve is so good in that moment. He knows Lois and the planet all just want Superman -- not Clark. It's why the kiss works for me. I'm not a comic reader so I get that it's not canon there, but on film, Superman II makes it poignantly clear that Superman and Lois can't be together. For both their sakes. Its core story about Superman's battle within himself is what makes it moving for me. Sure, Zod & crew are fun, but the real issue is that Superman will always be alone -- even when he's cosplaying a human being. And Christopher Reeve just sells it so well, and is so fascinating to watch -- it's rough around the edges, but he's even more moving as Superman there, and even funnier when he's Clark (the grace and dexterity of his physical comedy when he tosses his hat without looking is fabulous). Meanwhile! Great reactions to these "Andor" episodes. I have to admit I really hate episode 6. I think it's sloppy, badly written, cuts logistical corners, and I fricking hate how obvious it was -- the moment Cinta and Vel finally kissed onscreen it was obvious one or both would die. And poor Cinta dying for such a stupid and stupidly obvious reason was so badly written. Friendly fire -- aimed at one of their own allies? The guy everyone absolutely knew would bring a blaster? How unexpected! (Not.) And even the suspense with Kleya bugged me -- as George points out, we see blood dripping down her hand and between her fingers! But as she leaves, there is no sign of "dripping blood" or that she wiped her hand even though she would have had to wipe it on something -- but nope -- no pocket, no handkerchief, no purse. And even the stuff with Cassian and Bix walking away as the building exploded -- was the entire episode written as a series of cliches? For me, E6 was the lowest point of Andor as a show. (I still loved the rest of the season.)

LazyBoy Stays Up Late Watchin Video Tapes

I liked Superman II in the theater at age 5, now it is a hard watch. Grown up me agrees. I know this question was forever ago in internet time. I watch all the reaction channels, my observations to reactions are from an entertainment purpose and are not an observation of the host specifically as a person. Regarding what I think you are asking, George. I get frustrated when writers make a mess and chose to do things that are obvious, pointless and needless. It helps me to determine if I will even continue a show. I feel bad, if you don't like a show because, you two commit to watch something good or bad, I think. I will say that , you have help get me through watching things that I could not on my own as I lack patience. I know that a host has often influenced or changed my viewpoint of certain movies or shows. This has been good for things I have been dismissive of, this has been a challenge to cope with things I have been unquestionably devout to not necessarily Cinebinge because I see you making an earnest effort to be open minded but there was once another channel that was so critical of something that I felt stupid and like an idiot for really enjoying. In some cases Cinebinge has made much effort to like some movies I found to be a waste of effort 😂, and yet again, have helped be grow in seeing this. So thank you for everything. P.S. - Not sure if this is remotely the feedback you were looking for, I feel reluctant to even be writing this.

Logan Nelson

As she pulled the notepad down and started wadding paper up, I was so confused... Then the toss for the kitten and I was enamored...

Obsidian_Rose

and if you've played Jedi: Fallen Order which came out before, Reva just feels like a discount Trilla