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GMTK Mini - Why do God of War's Characters Keep Spoiling Puzzles? (Patreon)

Published:
2022-11-17 16:45:38
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

Hey Patrons!

I wanted to try something new today. I was interested in the current game design discourse surrounding God of War's chatty companions - and how they have a nasty habit of spoiling the game's puzzles. 

So I wanted to chip in and give my thoughts. But it usually takes a couple weeks to formulate and create a GMTK video. The discourse will have moved on by then!!

So I decided to try something different - a short, scrappy, less polished video that I'm calling "GMTK Mini". I actually wrote the script, recorded the voice, edited the footage, and uploaded it in a single day! Today!

Anyway, let's see how it goes. If it sucks and people hate it, I'll just remove it. Only one day wasted! But if it's okay, it's a format I'll be able to use (sparingly) in the future when I want to talk about something newsworthy.

Apologies for skipping the Patreon credits and early access on this one. The idea was to keep it short and release the video immediately. Hope that's okay. There should be another GMTK ep released in November with the usual Patreon stuff.

Anyhoo. Hope all is well, speak soon!

Mark

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GMTK is powered by Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/GameMakersToolkit Players have complained that God of War's companions keep spoiling all the puzzles. Let's look into the reasons this might happen. === Before you watch === Disclosure: God of War Ragnarok review code provided by Sony. === Sources === [1] God Of War Ragnarok Companions Are Solving Puzzles A Little Too Quickly For Some Players | Gamespot https://www.gamespot.com/articles/how-to-stop-god-of-war-ragnarok-companions-from-solving-puzzles-for-you/1100-6509116/ [2] Playtesting 'God of War' | GDC on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr4u5Kf_CT4 [3] Zoid Kirsch | Twitter https://twitter.com/ZoidCTF/status/1591553432573579264 [4] Dishonored Interview: Arkane on stealth, AI, player choice and much more | Games.on.net https://web.archive.org/web/20130209043406/http://games.on.net/2012/09/dishonored-interview-arkane-on-stealth-ai-player-choice-and-much-more/ [5] God of War Sales Pass 23 Million Copies | IGN https://www.ign.com/articles/god-of-war-sales-pass-23-million-copies [6] Only 20% of players will finish Hitman: Absolution, reckons IO | Eurogamer https://www.eurogamer.net/only-20-percent-of-players-will-finish-hitman-absolution-reckons-io === Credits === Music by Lee Rosevere https://leerosevere.bandcamp.com

Comments

SHAMANWOLF 1594

Agreed with most that this was great. Informative...perspective...and good to chew on for those aspiring epic video game developers.

Data_Error

I'm a big fan of these smaller videos knowing that more traditional GMTK content is still in the pipeline. It's a nice convergence of a bugbear I've had with AAA titles for some time and a very current title/framing, and the quality is well up to snuff considering the short turnaround time. Good stuff!

landsealion

I liked it and it was way more thorough than I expected with the references to other games and other videos you made. More GMTK is always a good thing (for us viewers at least).

Radu Nicolae

Probably gonna leave this comment on the YouTube vide as well, but an easy fix would be holding the square button to ask for a hint. It's not like you need your companion to summon stuff outside of combat.

s_p_l_o_d_e

solid commentary and analysis of the the broad issues with the AAA game industry comparison to marvel movies was apt

Hayes Brenner

I thought this was very solid and interesting!

Lily W

I love gmtk mini! I saw your tweets about the god of war thing and I'm honestly stunned you've made a video about it so quickly. Also I think the "AAA games are like marvel movies" comparison is pretty apt, especially where both *sometimes* offer more than just mindless entertainment, but mindless entertainment is still their main objective

Anthony

Really enjoyed the video, and love that we're about a point where an 8-minute long GMTK video is now branded 'mini'! Really good idea, would be very happy to see more of these in future :-)

cranderveldt

Love the mini format, fantastic addition

Kirk Rodgers

Love the mini format, Work in UX Research at a big AAA studio, and I disagree with the causal inference that playtesting is rounding off all the rough edges, because it suggests games without these kind of crutches (e.g., elden ring) don't playtest. The issue, I find, is when UX research is used as a machine to generate bug reports (e.g., issues) rather than testing developer hypotheses about the player and their experiences. The former type of test is exploratory, and plays whack-a-mole with issues. These can be valuable, but can be taken too far, especially (as you mentioned) when the game is late in development. The latter test takes dev hypotheses like "The player will solve the puzzle within 5 minutes of playtime" and tests it. If 80% of players aren't able to experience something in the way the dev intended, does that not merit a fix?

Dalen W. Brauner

Enjoyed the new format- don't want your work to feel "locked in" or "stale"! Considering swift turnaround is the goal, I think not having a sneak-peak on the mini is absolutely fine. If it really was a concern, I think having extra, behind-the-scenes thoughts Afterwards would do just fine.

Jamie & Kat Davis

Really impressed this was turned around in a day. Almost can't believe it. Well done 👏

Nate Bell

Great video, and despite being quickly made, it's still well edited and a nuanced consideration! There's also the angle that Atreus is a teen, and teens tend to underestimate the intelligence of others, especially their parents. So it could be a stylistic choice (though I expect you're right, and it's the result of filing down all the rough edges). It's impressive to see you tweet about this one day and then release a video the next (including a Metroid Prime nod, which reminded me of Zoid Kirsch's recent Metroid Prime Dev Stories). Great work!

Robert Furey

I like this kind of industry criticism. It's a nice addition to the more typical game design criticism.

mhogar

Great vid! You should have more confidence in yourself to create great content even in a short production cycle. Honestly really impressed you did this in a single day! I never would have guessed!

SplintEye

Echoing the rest of the patrons here: I think it's a brilliant idea! It's great that you can do this short output that stays relevant with the discourse :)

Laure Bruyère

I really like this new format! It serves its purpose very well.

Björn Blankenheim

With all the cross references and the usual production value I wouldn't consider this format to be so much different than other GMTK videos, although it's about a very recent topic. I really like it. The only thing I want to complain about is the rather uninspired "mini"-subtitle. It's almost comically ugly.

Will Kommor

Love the shorter vid! My two cents on the topic, from several years of running escape rooms (and a bit of time designing them): Players are TERRIBLE at knowing what kind of help they need. Offer them a choice of more/less hints, they will almost always choose the "least" option... then struggle like hell and be miserable. Which is why almost every escape room in the world has fallen to God of War's tactic of tossing out free hints when they judge you to need them. Which can be annoying to players, but years and years of Yelp reviews speak clearly to players a) enjoying their experience far far more if they win, and b) completely forgetting how many hints they were given to achieve said win the second they leave the building. All in all, I think better solutions to this over-hinting problem include plain old spending more budget on the puzzles, or making puzzles optional in games like this, or just cutting them altogether. It's a tough nut to crack.

sethmsparks

Love it. Feels very GMTK gen 1. You've gotten so good on the cutting floor, with animations, and as an essayist, that even a quick piece of work like this is still an order of magnitude better than most other creators.

Mark Greenhalgh

I came here expecting to be the first person to mention escape rooms! In addition to player's judging the hints they want (or indeed, their own competence), there's also the issue of players knowing what they want and/or the creators going along with that or fighting against it. In this country, the majority of escape rooms are extremely easy, or at least relatively so compared to their European counterparts. When I've challenged owners/designers on this, the main response is "people don't like losing". So the owner/designer has the choice of making a game that the majority of people will complete, to make them happy that they 'beat' it, or trying to convince them that they had a good time/valid experience without winning. The latter is a high risk strategy so the majority of businesses, who need to attract customers, take the easy option. And then games are just businesses that need happy customers too.

Keith Hirst

It was a really lovely surprise to see in my watch list! More GMTK! I'm down with that!

Cam N

Loved this, Mark. I appreciate it as a super-polished commentary on the current state of the industry. It's quick to consume and encourages conversation through a more objective, educated lens. I hope you can make more of these!

Jason K

This is such a fantastic idea for a video format, Mark! Even if, as a content creator, it can be frustrating that the videos you put the least work into might get the most views... :) As for the concept of the video itself, maybe the answer is that combat-based games don't really need puzzles, just as puzzle games don't need combat? I don't think Portal would've have been better had Chell been shooting robots in between puzzle-solving, and the janky Skyrim combat sections in The Forgotten City definitely didn't benefit that game. Maybe, in the end, the question is whether God of War's puzzle sections actually improve the experience or not...

Dean Fuest

Definitely keep them coming!

Eagle Henhawk

It's honestly really impressive you were able to manage this in a day. I was expecting something closer to a Youtube Short from the blurb. Game-wise: I haven't found the hints too annoying or disruptive. Most of the time I've figured out what I'm supposed to do and a companion will just restate it for me, which isn't super helpful and there's been a few times I've been stuck and wish they would say something more relevant. I think players are generally adverse to taking hints, but maybe if they made use of some of the context sensitive options, like how the blacksmiths give you a dialogue prompt when you're near them, might accomplish the same thing as providing a hint while allowing you to opt in and dressing it as interactive content.

Alexandre Moreira

I liked this little video. It's cool to be able to hear unique your voice in more current stuff, much though I like your usual, timeless analytical videos.

Edward Newton

I dug it very much. It might be useful to have a specific thumbnail style for the minis, to help set expectations, but I think it's killer.

Josh Foreman

I really like this little bite sized video. I'm really feeling this one hard because we just got some ruff Consumer Insight footage of testers getting SO mad and frustrated in our game. As an empathetic person I want SO badly to fix everything; but budget, time, etc. all conspire to make this very difficult to do. One thing I've learned over the years is that being able to think about puzzles, observe the environment, and track the several other things that need to be tracked to play a game... that ability is actually fairly rare.

Tom T

I don’t understand why games that run into this issue don’t just have a hint button you can press after a few minutes. That seems like the obvious solution to help people who are getting frustrated without ruining the puzzle for others.

Zachary Decent

Really like this format, it's more polished than I was expecting given your description!

Parachuting Turtle

This went deeper than I thought it would, in a good way! I think GMTK Mini is a great idea.

Tyghorn

Really enjoyed this format too. It is great to briefly talk about some interesting topic without the need for a deep research.