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Boss Keys - Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks (Patreon)

Published:
2017-03-29 16:57:38
Edited:
2017-03-29 16:57:39
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

Let's take a breezy look at a pair of DS games. I didn't want to go over the same structural stuff I've been repeating for the past few episodes, so decided to look at information and experimentation instead.

Files

29 March 2017

Uploaded by Mark Brown on 2017-03-29.

Comments

Dan

Yea! I've been waiting for this one. Phantom Hourglass is my first zelda game, and i was pretty young when playing it. Its linear gameplay helped me out alot, as i wasn't used the the zelda games, but i do think it would be better if there was a difficulty mode that made you have to collect the map. Would make it harder, and more fun to play now

Kerry Palmer

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssss, mooooooooore!

Dave

I never played these games as the idea of controlling Link with a stylus felt too gimmicky. You've sold me on wanting to give at least Phantom Hourglass a shot. Can I ask how you recorded your footage? I realise that since this is DS and not 3DS you could have just used emulation, but I'm curious. I want to find an affordable decent way to start recording 3DS games, as everything I play these days has to be for my channel ^^

Game Maker's Toolkit (GMTK)

The stylus controls work pretty well IMO! But I can't really reccomend the games that highly - they're definitely two of the weaker Zelda games. I've got a 3DS with video out - I don't think it was cheap, sadly (don't ask how I ended up with it...)

Vlad Kovalenko

Just wanted to comment on that Hollow Knight bit. Although having an incomplete sketch of a map is charming in a way, getting your hands on it is already a challenge (a number of people can't seem to find the map seller in the levels). And often these sketches provide no more than a third of a place they're describing. Moreover, the game's world *really* spreads out rather quickly, and it's very handy to be able to look at the map to quickly reorintate yourself towards a vendor you were looking, or a save point, or many other little places of interest that you might want to return to.

Dave

Ah damn. Yeah, getting my 3DS modded seems too expensive and risky atm =/

Raminder

I miss the graphs

Rich Stoehr

The maps in the original Thief were like that too... Sometimes just a crude sketch of a mansion and good luck to you. I kind of like it that way though... It adds to the mystery and the sense of exploring something unknown. That "eek" at the end, Mark... Is Skyward Sword really that controversial? I never had that sense... But I also never finished it.

Jeff Groves

@Rich: Yes. As I recall, it was extremely hand-holdy and linear for a Zelda game. BotW is pretty much the polar opposite of it.

Game Maker's Toolkit (GMTK)

I think it's pretty awful but it has a very rabid fan following. The dungeons are quite cool though so I may be able to avoid their rage a bit.

TJ Michael

So this might be a weird thing, but I while ago I stumbled upon a community of people working off of an open-source zelda 1 clone making piles upon piles of zelda dungeons, it's no "mario-maker" (zelda maker?) but it is pretty cool and there are a-lot of cool "quests" that do some pretty interesting things with the zelda format. It's called zelda classic, and its site is here: <a href="http://www.zeldaclassic.com/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.zeldaclassic.com/</a> Most of the quests are actaully posted on another site: <a href="http://www.purezc.net/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.purezc.net/</a> I'm sure you've probably got more than enough dungeons on your hands from nintendo, but some of these are really cool games made by people with a passion for classic NES era zelda.

Game Maker's Toolkit (GMTK)

Intriguing! I feel like a Zelda Maker would probably have the same issues as Mario Maker - what makes Zelda dungeons and Mario levels so special, often, is when they introduce some mad new gimmick. When you're using a toolbox of predetermined stuff it's hard to really surprise the player!

Fadhel

Hi Mark, Great video as usual. Boss key shows a great analytical style. It seems your final Zelda bosskey video will be more serious than a Mckinsey report. Here are some notes for you that I hope will help you in a way or another. The other day after I read many good and few bad comments on the YouTube videos I noticed that maybe not all those who watch your boss key videos are video game developers . Some viewers maybe just typed Zelda x and found your channel interesting. Zelda fans are maybe watching boss key just as Zelda fans. Their comments made me want to propose to you those two analytical questions: 1) Is there different categories of Zelda players? A reason why I propose this first question is that I personnally hated Zelda wind waker as a fan of link to be past/ link between two worlds series. (So I completely rely on all your analysis by the way, both as a gamer and as business game developer) But my young cousin played wind waker as his first Zelda and kept comparing other Zelda to wind waker. Wind waker being his best reference. Is there a difference between categories of Zelda players? Different motivations and different expectations? Are the player's expectations dependant on which Zelda the player played first? For example is it possible that those who played a capcom Zelda first, define Zelda according to what they saw first and will look for capcom type puzzles? will some look for follow the path maps and other for find the path maps? Is there fans of capcom Zelda serie as opposed to fans of [link to the past/ link awakening/ link between two words] serie? Etc... 2) second question : Given almost each player has his own favourite Zelda, is each Zelda game best at "something"? For example link's awakening best at find the path puzzles? Zelda twinlight princess best at donjon theme? another best at exploration? another has the best bosses? another is best fit for those who like very hard puzzles? another best fit for those who like easy puzzles? another for those who like follow the path type donjons etc...? I think you already have answer to some of these questions since you began a process of identifying pieces of gameplay that make opposite types of players happy (for example the ability to buy and not to buy hints , the ability to deactivate mission detector in breath of the wild etc...) By the way, I saw you published a link about Factorio, what do you think about business games? Have you ever tried games like Game Dev tycoon, Game Corp, or Game Biz ? I would love to see your analytical skills on that topic. ^^ Good luck and keep going !

Game Maker's Toolkit (GMTK)

Hey! So yeah, each Zelda game does things differently - some are more story focused, some are about combat, some are about freedom, some focus on dungeons, some focus on side activities. Whichever one(s) you played first will definitely have an impact on what you value most about the franchise. Someone who started early will likely have more attachment to complex level design than someone who started later. That's a good thing to think about, I'll keep it in mind. I've played some business games, more early stuff like Theme Hospital and Sim City. So maybe one day!