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Battlestar Galactica 4x20 21 and Discussion (Patreon)

Published:
2024-10-23 14:45:01
Imported:
2026-06

Content

If you've watched the full length you've seen this!

4x21: https://youtu.be/eXge889Trwg

4x20 https://youtu.be/1-HOTLLf-BM

Discussion https://youtu.be/NOLLb1RBvXQ

Comments

Chris L

glad you guys finally got through it! loved your reactions, very thought-provoking. this is a deep show with a lot of rewatch quality.

Konrad Dawid Wojsław

Before I'll post my theory I wonder what do youse think about the hybrid's utterance in The Plan? Not fully heard in your reaction on YouTube. I mean, Mikey liked the coherent parts (see timestamped https://youtu.be/fyjMUdHgbw8?t=3m3s) but it's actually about those seemingly incoherent portions. I can post my theory already if you want but I wouldn't want to spoil for youse the possible meaning behind the utterance in The Plan. Since the one in Razor (the most coherent incoherent one) for sure has a meaning and resolution. And it's rather easy to decipher. At least after what happened in Season 4. The relevant sequence in The Plan here 👉 https://youtu.be/HfTSrhzONJM (the subtitles aren't 100% accurate). The utterance in Razor Extended (etc) can be found here 👉 https://en.battlestarwikiclone.org/wiki/Hybrid_Utterances My theory is the only thing that fixes for me my disappointment (not a grave one, because they've managed to make it ambiguous enough to allow for personal explanations, but still a missed opportunity) about how they resolved Starbuck... and not enough concrete explanation about the Head entities. That's how it happened when the series was cut short around the WGA strike.

Konrad Dawid Wojsław
>>153611943

Oh, not fully explained there, tbh. Mostly for the one in Razor Extended, but I can add more to it, if you want. But I was curious if you figured it out about the one in The Plan. Joe almost got it, but in relation to other event. Few episodes before the last entry on YouTube. And utterance in The Plan relates to it, imo. Unless youse want me to post my theory already.

Konrad Dawid Wojsław
>>153611943

Okay. About The Plan I'll post in some time (maybe in a new thread). With my full theory. But in Razor Extended the First Hybrid said (explanations, partially known from the BSG Wiki, in parenthesis): "At last, they’ve come for me (Kara and Kendra in the First Hybrid's ship). I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me (the Hybrid must know the future... somehow - I have a theory). The denial of the one true path (giving up on the search for Earth in S02E20), played out on a world not their own (the settling on New Caprica), will end soon enough (Second Exodus in Exodus episodes of Season 3). Soon there will be four (the Four of the Final Five in ending of S03E20), glorious in awakening (the Four of the Final Five realizing they're Cylons and acting upon it), struggling with the knowledge of their true selves (Season 4, mainly the first half), the pain of revelation bringing new clarity (leading to S04E10), and in the midst of confusion (the power outage in S03E20), he will find her (Lee encountering Kara in S03E20). Enemies brought together by impossible longing (Human-Cylon Alliance in Season 4 based on the longing of finding Earth/home), enemies now joined as one (Human-Cylon Alliance in Season 4 after the Mutiny). The way forward at once unthinkable yet inevitable (the Alliance and/or using Cylon tech in Season 4, blending of the two groups). And the fifth (Ellen), still in shadow (unknown to us until S04E15, not yet back in Fleet), will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption (Ellen regretting some stuff) that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering (all the troubles happening in and after S04E15). I can see them all (the First Hybrid has a knowledge about the future events of those characters, at least to a degree). The seven (Caprica 6, Leoben, Doral, Sharon, D'Anna, Simon, Cavil), now six (all the seven Cylons but minus the boxed D'Anna), self-described machines (humanoid Cylons thinking of themselves as machines) who believe themselves without sin (they thought the Attack on the 12 Colonies and their actions were justified and righteous), but in time, it is sin that will consume them (they eventually reaped what they sow - during the Cylon Civil War). They will know enmity (hostility between Cylons), bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many (the collective of the Cylons falling apart, starting with the Civil War between Cylons in Season 4, six of one), and then they will join the promised land (the "Second" Earth), gathered on the wings of an angel (Starbuck led them to "Second" Earth - an angel only figuratively, imo). Not an end (S04E20), but a beginning (before 150K years later, whole lives ahead of them).

Konrad Dawid Wojsław

Full theory about the series. ➖ So... first Joe thought this 👉 https://youtu.be/NaTycKRgq2o?t=39 (ps. could you provide me a link to that Joe's long post theory - I wonder how dis/similar our theories are). Then Joe thought this 👉 https://youtu.be/WWP0UtpPgJk?t=7m2s (but the show has spoke about it, time dilation was mentioned in S04E01, it just unfortunately wasn't the main plot). So Joe shouldn't drop theories until there's nothing to the contrary. 🙂 Even if he's in the minority. We both are. Cause he is right. He just forgot the show did talk about the time travel and established that it's a thing in this universe (forgetting about or not catching it is understandable, but I dunno why too many people reject that premise completely - not the main thing of course, but it's logical that time travel happened). Maybe they would've expanded upon it if SyFy haven't decided (around the WGA strike) to not add any more episodes to the series. And the following is interesting 👉 https://youtu.be/WWP0UtpPgJk?t=9m58s ("inevitability", said Mike... of the loop, imo). ➖ Cause my theory is this: They're in a time loop. Specifically naked singularities (like the one in "Daybreak") tho theoretical (google: naked singularity GRO J1655−40) would cause ~unpredictable effects. Time wise. ➖ In short: 1. Earth is said (in S02E07) to be surrounded by [known to us viewers as ours] constellations. Shown in the Tomb of Athena with an advanced holographic projection resembling our planetariums. The technology used in it was the same as in the "Caprica" series. Probably more polished/tweaked/advanced. A regular thing in the series. 2. The constellations matched in S04E10. 3. And our constellations are the same. Tho 150K years later (with our New York in the Finale). Not the day they landed. So the Colonials checking them wouldn't give them a clue. And since Adama skipped recon missions mentioned by Lee in S04E10 they wouldn't know that the landmasses also matched. The Bahamas are visible in S04E10 and surely existed 150K years ago. When our Africa was shown too in the Finale. And exist 150K years later with our New York seen in the "Daybreak" episode. Above which are our constellations, from those seen in the Tomb. And the constellations alone are enough as a proof. 4. Some random planet cannot just align with known to us constellations/zodiacs. Hence both Earths are the same. On the same orbit. Just not in the same time. 5. All non technical parts in hybrids' utterances have a meaning. And the following hybrid's utterance in "The Plan" fits my theory. "The flower inside the fruit that is both its parent and its child". Novikov self-consistency principle allows for it. Chicken or the egg ~like dilemma, but here solved by that principle. Plus "the machine keeps pushing time through the cogs, like paste into STRINGS into paste again, (...)" suggests parallel universes (e.g. the string theory in science). Which could explain Starbuck's disappearance. Tho, her disappearance is an outdated sci-fi trope anyway. Cool in BTTF Trilogy of course. But that's a different type of movies. Used in other movies too. Here at least not shown on screen, with Starbuck fading away or something. And there's still no solid explanation how she ended up in our universe (I like to think she wanted to correct Adama's death by Tigh - only a vision in S04E01 - and somehow ended up in our universe, maybe through some Maelstrom similar to that one in S03E17, partially amnesiac). Surely interacted physically with everybody and everything (so... not an angel... not just figuratively 😉) and she also saw our Starbuck dead on Earth (her DNA from tags were tested, but compared with what... military records, which belongs to that one who went through Maelstrom, not to the Second Starbuck... or if everything checked then the more she's human). The Second Starbuck tho important, is not our Starbuck. And ours is dead 😔, charred 😕 and forgotten 😔. Not the way she wanted 🙁. Cause everyone thinks the second one is the same as the first one. Whatever they think about her, actually. Also Kara had longer hairs, yet only 6 hours passed for her. So the more it suggests she was a interdimensional traveler (hence the disappearance) moreso than a time traveler (from a universe where events are behind ours). After all, only she disappeared after a time travel caused by the FTL tech used close to the singularity. 6. But... Head Gaius says that the devastated Earth is the real one, not ours, right? Head entities weren't all knowing apparently. They actually knew only so much (nothing about the 13th Tribe being Cylon and by admissionn Head Six didn't know what was that device under DRADIS in the Miniseries when Baltar asked what it is). And moreover in disagreement about what the higher power is. God according to Head Six (only she, and maybe Baltar, sees herself as an angel). Not-God, but an it, according to Head Baltar. She didn't contradict or refute him, but made a face to which he decided not to push the argument further. Imagine arguing about it for centuries or more. Still, there's a reason why Baltar was adamant about it. He just let it go. Well, Head entities might be AIs themselves (Mikey thought about it not too long ago) since the God/god is not God according to Head Baltar, but an it, i.e. not-God. Hence neither an ascendent human (to be a god of his/hers own universe - multiverse) like it is in Mormonism known to be a theme in "BSG TOS" (in "The Expanse" too). Tho multiverse is still possible. Many-worlds interpretation. 7. Notice, we are half Cylons in this series hence that's what they found in the rubbles during S04E11. Which to them looked just like Cylons in the test results. Only Baltar's protocols were used. But they weren't Cylons like those that are "stacked" with the resurrection tech, but like Hera. Which is not as much as others. Consider, according to the Scrolls, Kobol is the origin and the 13th Tribe went to Earth, but how would they left the map in the Tomb of Athena first when they traveled far and found Earth, "which circled a distant and unknown star". So they couldn't leave the map behind them when they didn't know how the constellations looked until they reached Earth. Then seen in S04E10 by the Colonials and after 150K years on our Earth. Then? Yes, then? Because the 13th found Earth long before the events in S04E10 when the constellations still looked the same. How would Adamas even know the Lagoon Nebula by its name and M8 designation when it was less prominent 150K years ago... 8. Infinitely trapped in a loop. The "cycle" never broken because only one and eternally enclosed. And thus the [quite a specific] Saying: "ALL this has happened before, and ALL of it will happen again". Tho they lived their own lives. But the humanity ended. Twice. Through Hera and by not carrying on outside of the loop (no survivors on Caprica, Kobol, New Caprica nor on the future Earth). Happysad ending made more depressing. But I don't mind. And it fits hybrid's utterance which says: "only the machine keeps using time to make time to make time, and when the machine stops time was an illusion that we created free will". Which doesn't mean free will is impossible in a time loop... even if a higher power knows future events. Lives lived, choices made (meaning, a loop, but not a loop where the characters infinitely relive their lives). "Confusion between causality and determinism is particularly acute in quantum mechanics". ➖ Proofs and my full reasoning here 👉 https://www.reddit.com/u/Konrad-Dawid-Wojslaw/s/nuCnOrxiev (copy-paste, remove what's read... if you even have the time, cause it's a looong post, ~58K characters, i.e. ~12 A4 pages). Key words: constellations (in the Tomb of Athena and S04E10), Bahamas (in S04E10), time dilation (in S04E01), naked singularity (mentioned in "Daybreak Part 1"), [theory of] strings (hybrid's utterance in "The Plan") and such. ➖ Or we can go with angels and religion. Not my thing in this case, tho. Because there's too much to the contrary. And most of all, that's how myths are formed.

732ReviewCrew
>>155662870

Oh wow. You make a really compelling argument. I'm going to have to deep dive a little sometime soon. Thank you sir.

Konrad Dawid Wojsław
>>155662870

You're welcome. Take your time. Tho I think this Patreon post is enough when no time to read. Maybe share with Joe and Mike too. And if you would be able to share that link to Joe's theory I would appreciate. Cheers.

732ReviewCrew
>>155662870

I apologize I'm on day 6 of work in a row, Joe's theory? Are you talking about the idea he had about time travel or the text he sent em

732ReviewCrew
>>155662870

Here's the text ; Joe : Okay here I go ***Things we KNOW*** They keep saying everything has happened and will happen again. The final 5 traveled at sublight speed meaning it took a very long time to travel and arrive at the colonies. Starbucks ship and body were found on earth, which scared/confused the shit out of Leoben. Starbucks ship *exploded* and Lee saw it happen. Starbuck shows back up in the same ship in perfect condition and in good and normal health. A ship that hasn't been in service since the first cylon war. Starbucks visions were from the future. The exact same images as her paintings. When she arrives back and in good health she says she knows the way to earth, and acts as if it's only been a day. Meanwhile she'd been gone for weeks/months. Starbuck is the only reason Anders is on BSG and was rescued/found. So my best guess is somehow she is a time traveler or is able to move between realities. And time is literally repeating itself Rant over

Konrad Dawid Wojsław
>>155662870

Yeah, I think that's the one. Thank you very much. 🙏 I think Joe will like my theory (take your time with it). The conclusion is similar. After all, Kara's hair grew as if she was absent exactly for that few months, hence from a reality/universe with events happening earlier/later or at a different moment (respectively). And in addition for her it was only hours from disappearing (an established fact in the series - time dilation). And no need for apologizing. You're busy. Nothing as long from me from now on 🙂. It's just for Battlestar. Take care.