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Buffy The Vampire Slayer 2x14 - "Innocence" Full Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2021-08-15 01:01:59
Imported:
2026-06
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Link: https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZ2L2F0ZhQPM95dPIGbq2guwdBi6Yjt3QnBX

AndrewEarly's Archive-LINK: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1JZZmJk8iyVHKbpu8Kxd7k2HRnNWvFO7E

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Comments

Michael Short
>>65797316

the way I've always thought of it is, Angel without a soul is the same person as Angel without a soul, only he doesn't care about the bad things he does and who they effect. With a soul, he still remembers all the bad things he's done, and that's why he suffers. as he says in one episode "To have done the things i've done, and to care, it's the worst torture of all"

Eliza

Do you have a PO box or something? I could send you some tissues 😂

Allan Cornett

My favorite parts of this episode are Angelus blowing out smoke after biting the smoking blonde and Giles being the father figure of the year when he talks to Buffy at the end.

Superplin

Need tissues to watch? Check. "This show makes me laugh and cry at the same time"? Check. Completely destroyed by that conversation between Giles and Buffy at the end? Check. Welcome to Buffy the Vampire Slayer fandom. Your initiation is complete.

Darrell Palmer

And this is where the series really begins. Congratulations, you've arrived at the true beginning. Get ready for the ride of your life and bring a fresh box of tissues to each episode, just in case. Not every episode is going to make you cry, but every episode going forward is going to be in complete control of your emotions and will play you like a violin. Enjoy...

x_Rhi_x

The gypsies didnt care that they were punishing the human angel not just angelus by returning his soul. They also didn't know what he was like as a human. They just wanted revenge. And giving him his humanity forced him to remember and feel bad for everything he did and everyone he killed as angelus. A pretty awful punishment but then, angelus deserved it. He was a monster

Briony Addey

The metaphysics of vampires /Angel: Here's how I've understood it (I have a PhD in metaphysics, so hopefully this analysis is okish!) Memory and personality are properties of the brain, which is the instrument via which both Angelus the demon, and Angel the soul, interact with the world. But memory and personality are very closely tied to our idea of personal identity. I think strictly speaking Angel and Angelus are two totally distinct entities. When Angel is in his body, he has full agency (control and responsibility) over what he does (Angelus is lurking in there, but doesn't have any control), when Angel's soul is gone, he no longer has control, so no longer has responsibility. But I think it's very slightly mushier than than, only because a) we're not used to the idea of 1 body being used by 2 entities and b) because we associate memory/personality with personal identity so much, it's impossible, in practical (and therefore emotional terms) to separate the two entirely, even though, strictly speaking they are different beings and neither controls the others' actions. I can understand both Angel's feelings of guilt (imagine your hands carried out disgusting acts, and you remember them doing it. That would make you feel horrible, responsible, dirty, even if, at a certain level, you knew you weren't in control and aren't responsible). And I can understand the anger of Yanna's (Jenny's) people clouding their vision of who is responsible for what. Ooh, yeah, bring tissues!

dodoreactions
>>65791133

I also thought this season provided you with pretty much all the emotions that can be found in a human body 😢😳🤣🤔🙂😠🥵😡

dodoreactions
>>65797316

That's a good and interesting way of looking at it. In that respect, it makes sense to feel guilty for someone else's action, but done with your own hands. The only thing that always bothered me a little bit was Angel always saying, "I did these bad things." These things were perpetrated through his body, yet the blame is to be placed on Angelus and not him 🤔

Briony Addey
>>65797316

Honestly, I feel the same way. I understand Angel's feelings, but I wish he hadn't been so burdened with, what's at one level, a misplaced sense of guilt.

Briony Addey
>>65788544

Oh my god, the Giles/Buffy convo. I love that Giles understands the culture and Buffy's needs enough to reassure her she still has his respect. Girls are made to feel shame both for being sexually active and for the misdeeds of their shitty boyfriends- I love that Giles was able to preempt some shame here. He's a good dad.

Superplin
>>65797316

Without spoilers, I think the show gives a much more complex view of the soul/demon relationship. It’s also true that this is something fans understand in lots of different ways, so there’s no universal consensus. I personally make very little distinction between Angel and Angelus, but the reasons will have to be a conversation for another day when you’re further along.

Superplin

Also I can finally comment here without worrying that my avatar will be a spoiler. 😊

dodoreactions
>>65813548

I mean, I've seen your avatar before, but I haven't really thought about it... which I'm just realizing now 😅

Superplin
>>65813548

That was my hope, that since you had no context you wouldn't think about it, but I still held back because I didn't want you noticing it too closely.

dodoreactions
>>65813548

Honestly, even if I had consciously noticed it, I wouldn't have expected it to be a part of this show. I don't know what other show it would be from, but whatever... 😅💙 (Love you avatar btw, In case I haven't mentioned it before)

Superplin
>>65813548

It's one of my favorite moments in the series. I love seeing Buffy be such a total badass, and the whole slow-mo sequence of Angeles and Drusilla realizing what's about to happen and getting ready to dive off the balcony while the Judge asks, "What's that do?"--then KABOOM!--is just spectacular. (I also love Drusilla squealing in distress and running away afterwards.)

UTU49

Which episode is this? Oh, this one. Yeah, I think maybe I remember this one. Doesn’t something interesting happen in this one? I forget. Kidding. Surprise/Innocence are huge episodes. Surprise starts with Buffy having a nightmare that torments her. By the end of Innocence, Buffy’s life has become something far FAR worse than her nightmares. Poor Buff… Buffy is not like other TV shows. It somehow manages to be both funnier and more emotional than 95% of other TV shows. The way the characters are so vulnerable and deeply care about each other is extremely absorbing.

Midnight Crypt Worx

The thing I love about this episode, it shows how scary it is to have sex for the first time. Not the act itself, but what comes after. Unfortunately, this happens to people a lot in real life. They do their thing and then they turn into a different person afterwards. Just so happens that in Buffy's world, this is literal.

Pumpkin 3.14

SMG and Alyson are such good criers that they make all of the heart wrenching stuff so much more devastating.

Elias Lundgren

Idk who has said what, but its generally accepted that its not the actual sex that gives Angel the true happiness. But rather waking up to his love, afterwards. It also makes it even worse that Buffy did not get to do this.

UTU49
>>65912363

Buffy does a great job of exploring the depth and breadth of human experiences. Great point about the treatment of sex, not just as an act, but as an emotional shift in a relationship. Even when you are treating each other really well and you trust each other completely, it can still be scary to explore your sexuality with another person.